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tari101190
07-28-2007, 04:30 PM
i found this a while ago, i really don't remeber where it's from though sorry. i'm not taking credit for it cos i didn't write it. its not really a theory i think, but it has alot of info.

All about shinigami powers...

Reiryoku, Reiatsu, and Reishi
Effectively, there's three main terms that show up a lot in the Bleach manga when dealing with things related to the shinigami, their powers, and other spiritual-related stuff: reiryoku, reiatsu, and reishi. Of these "reiatsu" is probably most familiar, as it tends to get tossed around most frequently (and at times incorrectly) in the English-speaking fandom, but the other two are at least as fundamental.

So let's start with reiryoku. Literally, it means "spirit power". Reiryoku is the term that describes a shinigami's innate spiritual power. It also can be applied to humans, ghosts, Hollows, or whatever. Basically what this means is, everything with a spirit has some level of spiritual power or reiryoku. A normal soul has very very little. A captain-level shinigami has a lot. In the Bleach universe, only a relatively small percentage of souls have enough reiryoku to become shinigami, but all souls have at least a little. The soul is a spirit, and therefore inherently has at least that minimal degree of spiritual power as a part of its being a soul in the first place.

The next term, reiatsu, means "spirit pressure". Reiatsu describes the actual effect of a shinigami's reiryoku, the almost physical force. It can in many ways be likened to an aura of sorts. A powerful reiatsu can easily paralyze those of sufficiently weaker spiritual power, as well as at the higher levels having an apparent physical force and pressure, creating wind and even crushing the ground underfoot. A shinigami can control their reiatsu to a degree in the form of focusing or suppressing it. Obviously non-shinigami who have sufficiently high spiritual power also have reiatsu, it's again a generic term and by no means limited just to shinigami.

Finally there's reishi. Reishi is "spirit particles", basically it's the matter that all the spiritual beings and things in Bleach are composed of. Ghosts, Hollows, shinigami, all of Soul Society itself, are made up of reishi. Obviously reishi is not normally visible to your average human, though those with sufficient innate spiritual power/awareness can see such things. Reishi can apparently also fuel spiritual energy, as the Quincy derive their power from absorbing the reishi in the surrounding environment and focusing it into their bows.

One interesting thing to note in all this, is that while in Soul Society normally most souls have no need to eat whatsoever, those who possess a high level of spiritual power such as shinigami do in fact get hungry and eat on a regular basis.


Kidou, Zanpakutou, and other Reijutsu
As for the actual application of these basics. Aside from the obvious effects of the reiatsu, there's several other ways in which the shinigami's powers are applied. All of these still stem from the same fundamentals, however, as will be explained for each case.

Kidou is actually perhaps the simplest. Kidou or "demon arts" could be likened to Bleach's equivalent to magic or spells. To use kidou usually involves uttering both an incantation and various actions to invoke the spell, though some more powerful shinigami have been shown to bypass much of this. Using kidou however relies in the end primarily on the shinigami's own innate power and control, however: a shinigami with almost no spiritual power cannot cast a very powerful spell no matter how perfectly they may perform the incantation, and a powerful shinigami who lacks control and focus will have difficulty in making the spell behave as desired. The most basic qualifier for using kidou however is simply one's level of spiritual power: it doesn't matter how skilled you might be if you lack the reiryoku to draw upon in the first place.

Zanpakutou as probably more than well known by now are the shinigami's swords. The name literally means "soul slaying sword", and as the name implies a zanpakutou is a spiritual weapon intended to be used on spirits. It's probably safe to assume that like the shinigami themselves, a zanpakutou is physically comprised of reishi. Zanpakutou are effectively the physical manifestation/focus of a shinigami's powers. All shinigami have one, and a zanpakutou's effectiveness against an opponent is largely decided by the spiritual power and focus of the shinigami wielding it. One of the more important things to note about zanpakutou, however, are the releases. Normally, zanpakutou are "sealed", taking the form of an ordinary sword and scabbard. A shinigami who knows the name of their zanpakutou is generally capable of using shikai, or initial release. This changes the physical form of the zanpakutou, as well as unlocking any ability or power it has. It also increases the shinigami's power and reiatsu, because the seal has been released.

The second release is bankai or full release. Few shinigami are capable of using this release, as it requires years of training both to achieve and master, however it's a prerequisite for achieving the rank of captain. Bankai again changes the physical form of the zanpakutou, this time releasing its full potential. A shinigami using bankai is fighting at a level several times higher than just with shikai. This does obviously also affect things like reiatsu: obviously when the shinigami's power is no longer sealed, the reiatsu also is no longer suppressed. Zanpakutou also have their own identity, meaning that fighting with a zanpakutou is in some ways cooperating with it. They're capable of healing/repairing themselves after being damaged in battle.

There are also other techniques used by the shinigami aside from kidou and the use of zanpakutou. One of the most common examples is shunpo or "flash step". Shunpo is a technique in which a shinigami gathers spiritual energy at their feet, in order to cross large distances in a single step. The limit of this is largely just the strength and skill of the individual shinigami. Also, a few scattered cases of other techniques have been shown in Bleach, largely variations on these basics used by specific individuals. But the fact that such variations exists indicates that shinigami are by no means strictly limited to just these, but have quite a bit of room to adapt and explore new applications.

An aside on the Quincy
The Quincy, being human, don't use kidou. However, a number of Quincy techniques do in fact mirror those of the shinigami. One of the more notable examples is the Quincy hirenkyaku ("flying bamboo-screen legs") technique, which is virtually identical to the shinigami's shunpo. While the Quincy may use different methods and call things by different names, some of the fundamentals apparently remain the same.


All the little details
Now for just some of the miscellaneous little details on things, either expanding on earlier points, or just other information.

First of all and foremost, strictly speaking the shinigami are not human. They started out as human souls and still look human (well, most of them), however they're inherently different. Different to the extent that when one materializes the "spirit threads" of various souls, a shinigami's is actually a different color from the that of a normal soul. Of course because of this, someone with good enough senses for such thing would be capable of detecting if an individual is a shinigami. Similarly, shinigami can sense the presence of Hollows, as opposed to any other spirit. Though of course, as things like reiatsu can be suppressed, there's also ways of hiding oneself from detection.

Shinigami are also inherently spirit-based beings. They're able to inhabit gigai or artificial bodies in order to interact with things in the living world, but they aren't really "alive" in that sense. Even when in a gigai, a shinigami is fully capable of interacting with other spirits such as Hollows and fellow shinigami.

The single main prerequisite for becoming a shinigami is spiritual power. Someone who has virtually no power to speak of simply isn't going to make the cut, period. While on the other hand, someone already capable of manipulating spiritual energy even on a very basic level would probably have no problem getting into the academy for training to become a shinigami. However, reiryoku isn't static. A shinigami can train to become more powerful, and apparently under certain circumstances even someone with little to no powers can gradually gain some.

When in the living world, lieutenant and captain ranked shinigami have their powers restricted. The reason for this is to prevent the immense reiatsu shinigami of such high ranks typical have from adversely affecting everything else in the area.

Aside from killing Hollows, shinigami also send souls on to the afterlife through the process of a Soul Burial. The details are unknown, but the zanpakutou is used in this, so there's obviously some connection with that. Also, it's apparently possible to perform a Soul Burial poorly or incorrectly, but how this works is impossible to say.

Shinigami are able to use jigokuchou or hell butterflies. Within Soul Society these are often used to transmit messages, and shinigami use them to cross between Soul Society and the living world safely. A hell butterfly also appears after a Soul Burial is performed.


Vizard, Arrancar, and Hollows
Here's where the shinigami powers start to get muddled. Both vizard and arrancar use apparently the powers of both shinigami and Hollows, the only fundamental difference being that vizard start out as shinigami, while arrancar are created from Hollows. However, it's not quite so complicated once broken down individually.

To start off with, we need to describe Hollows. A Hollow is a spirit that comes into existence when a soul is not sent on to Soul Society, but instead lingers in the living world, eventually losing its heart and transforming into a monster. Hollows have a hole, typically in the area of the chest, indicating the missing heart, as well as a mask, hiding their former identity as well as covering up the raw instinct they now act on. Hollows vary in power, from being incredibly weak to powerful enough to threaten even the stronger shinigami, and like shinigami, their power stems from their innate spiritual power.

Hollows prey upon other spirits, and especially like those souls with higher levels of spiritual power. It's also mentioned that while an ordinary soul will never feel hungry, one that is about to turn into a Hollow will begin to. What's most notable about this, is that Hollows aren't the only spirits who feel hungry: shinigami need to eat too. Despite coming from far opposite natures, shinigami and Hollows both are subject to some of the same needs as powerful spiritual beings.

So effectively, the difference lies in the nature of the powers, more than anything. The focus of a shinigami's power is the zanpakutou, the symbol of a Hollow is its mask. A vizard is a full shinigami, who then acquires a Hollow's mask, while an arrancar is a Hollow that breaks its mask and seals its power into a zanpakutou. Vizard aren't true Hollows, as they lack holes. Arrancar aren't shinigami, as their zanpakutou is apparently a simple sealing of their powers, as opposed to a focal point drawing them out and augmenting them. All of the above, however, have much in common because of the simple fact that all are extremely powerful spirits, regardless of the type and origins of that power.

Sergelia
07-28-2007, 06:45 PM
How, how did I fail to see this thread?

Was a good read. Thanks. +rep It's only too bad I didn't read this before posting my silly theories though. >__> *kicks herself* *dies*

Saffire
07-28-2007, 07:04 PM
There's a few minor problems with it (Shinigami don't wear gigai to interact with the physical world, they can do that anyways. Gigai are solely to recover spiritual power), but overall it's an excellent read.

Frosted Heart
07-28-2007, 07:08 PM
Yep, it's a very nice read! I just have one question about it.

The post stated that "apparently a Soul Burial can be done poorly or incorrectly." When have we ever seen that? I don't recall an instance when we saw a failed Soul Burial.

Saffire
07-28-2007, 07:10 PM
c-17 omake, someone (either Kira or Renji) pushes too hard and the soul he Buried started yelling "omg it hurts it hurts!" as he went through.

Frosted Heart
07-28-2007, 07:13 PM
Ah OK thanks! LOL no wonder I didn't know, it was in an omake. -_- But I don't know how 'canon' those would be. XD

tari101190
07-28-2007, 07:26 PM
There's a few minor problems with it (Shinigami don't wear gigai to interact with the physical world, they can do that anyways. Gigai are solely to recover spiritual power), but overall it's an excellent read.
i get what you mean, but i think i get what the guy who wrote it meant too.

a shinigami can act in the phisical world (like touch stuff), but we wouldn't be able to see them. only in a gigai would we be able to interact with them. so i guess they're not solely for recovering spirit power...i didn't really think that was a use for a gigai anyway personally.

Saffire
07-28-2007, 08:15 PM
Ah OK thanks! LOL no wonder I didn't know, it was in an omake. -_- But I don't know how 'canon' those would be. XDWell, it's in a volume release (Vol 15, I think?) so I think it's probably canon.
a shinigami can act in the phisical world (like touch stuff), but we wouldn't be able to see them. only in a gigai would we be able to interact with them. so i guess they're not solely for recovering spirit power...i didn't really think that was a use for a gigai anyway personally.I suppose that's true, but normally a Shinigami wouldn't use it for that kind of thing. They don't really have a need to interact with the human world except in very special cases.

Rain
07-28-2007, 08:19 PM
Any omake included in the volume releases are canon. Each are somewhat adressed in the regular storyline at least.

Unicorn
07-28-2007, 11:31 PM
Thanks for the post, Tari! It was excellent and informative. :D

Velius
07-29-2007, 01:41 AM
Not bad at all. :D Can help clear up a lot of little things. Hmm. I remember seeing this on BF maybe? Maybe even you who posted it? Idk. Long time ago. :)

tari101190
02-23-2008, 09:25 PM
i wanted to post some stuff, but didn't wanna make a new thread. since this was my thread anyway and the name of the thread kinda fits, i'll just write it here...

so this is just alot of random-ish stuff. you don't need to read it in order i guess...(if you read it at all)

power and speed
ppl tend to think that the more powerful you are, thef faster you are. but that obviously isn't true from what we've seen.

looking at stuff we've seen, i came up with this list -
yoruichi, soifon, byakuya, zommari, and yamamoto.

these guys have either been shown or stated to be the fastest in some way. i believe that these 5 guys (there may be more though) have mastered speed and have reached it's limit. yamamoto probably has 2x more reiatsu than the other 4, but i still think they are all around the same speed.

the speed they can move at seems to be so fast that they can seemingly create a clone. no ichigo didn't do that. he was just running around in a circle so fast that he made alot of blurred images of himself. not clones.

agility
agility and speed arn't the same. zommari can move at the fastest speed possible, able to make a clone. his agilty is also so high that he can make 5 clones. cos he can move around at that speed more than others.

byakuya has shown to move at the speed that zommari can, but has also shown that he cannot move around as much. meaning his agilty is nowhere near as high. his stamina was just 70 in those stats so i think that fits into my theory.

we dunno if yoruichi and soifon are as agile as zommari. capable of making 5 clones, but they should be. they are specifically trained as ninjas afterall...

i'm 1000% certain yamamoto isn't as agile though. he's far too old he got 60 for stamina in the stats. he can't make make 5 clones surely...but he can move at the speed to make 1 clone atleast.

when ichigo does bankai, his speed and agilty seem to increase. so bankai ichigo's agilty i would say is it's limit, as high as the above guys. but hasn't shown to be as fast. even when using hollow powers.

grimmjow is a panther remember, so his speed and agilty would be pretty much maxed out aswell. whichexplainswhy he can keeep up with bankai ichigo. his released form seems to increase his speed and agility like ichigo's bankai. so his agilty is probably maxed out. i'm not sure his speedis though.

vizard bankai ichigo and pantera grimmjow seem to have maxed out their agility but don't seem faster than normal shunpo...maybethey are though. even ifthey are i oubt they'reas fast as gamelos sonido though. perhaps somewhere inbetween.

physical strength
some ppl, like zaraki, seem to have mastered their own physical abilties so are pobably themost powerful in that sense. but remember when in a fight your reiatsu adds to your power. so power = physical strength + reiatsu.

zaraki, komamura, nnoitra and even unohana seem to have mastered physical stength. they either got 100 in the stats or have shown to be that strong, or just look it, or all 3.

i would think yammy has too...but i don't get why he would only be #10...

reiatsu and zanpakutou's
hitsugaya and ichigo have both shown that in order to initially get a zanpakutou you need to meet your spirit then seal it into a sword. notice you seal the spirit, not your reiatsu.

it seems that in order to do shikai or bankai you need to raise your reiatsu to a certain level. but your reiatsu doesn't increase from releasing.

shinigami keep their reiatsu at low levels normally. when they fight they probably raise their reiatsu to a certain higher level. high enough to do shikai.

shikai and bankai are just new eapons to use in a fight. they don't raise your reiatsu.

like when ichigo faught renjithe 2nd time. ichigo attacked renji with enoufgh power to push him back. renji didn't know ichigo was that strong so it makes sense he didn't use enough power to block. notice ho he then easily pushed ichig back after a few seconds. it's cos he raised his reiatsu so now had enough power to match ichigo,then he released his zanpakutou. hedidn't get stronger, he just used zabimaru's strething abilty to use that same power to push ichigo back even further, that's all.

zaraki
zaraki's reiastsu is always at it's maximum. so it seems when he fights he doesn't swing his sword with all of his strength cos he has enough reiatsu behind his lighter swings to still cause damage.

even with the eye-patch on his reiatsu is still high. not as high as when ppl do bankai, but it's closer to that level than a typical base level.

also, remember zaraki loves fightng, but since he can't control his power he doesn't fight the best he can. so swinging lightly helps him fight guys without winning too quick. like he did against ichigo.

he's never had a problem with cutting ppl even if they are as strong as him, but arrancar have hierro so its different now.

he can't rely on his reiatsu powered weak attacks anymore so he started using his physical strength to it's max. when he swung his sword in a circle he was probably just getting used to swing hisswordwith more force and speed.

against ichigo he obviously wasn't using 100% f his physical strength, so ichigo only had to deal with his high reiatsu. zaraki also got sliced up alot wasn't able to fight for much longer. if zaraki started fighting lik he is against nnoitra, the fight wuld've ended so quick.

espada
the espada all seem to be ranked just in order of how much reiatsu they have, not by anything else.

like zommari has mastered his speed so could out run any1, but is only #7.

ppl say that luppi is far too weak to be #6 but i think he was stong enough.

if my theory is right, then luppi has as mch reiatsu as grimmjow. but remember grimmjow is a panther, so his speed and stamina would obviously be much higher than an average person. so if grimmjow were to fight luppi, grimmjow would easily win right? not cos he has less reiatsu, just cos he's slower and has les physical strength.

that would also mean the hitsugaya has around as much reiatsu as them, which he should. but again ppl would think he's weak cos...i don't even see why to be honest.

hitsugaya
ppl were saying he was weak even b4 the fight wiht luppi, whih isn't true at all.

hitsugaya's powers are ice. you can tell how powerful he is by how hard his ice is, as in how easy it is to break, and by how much ice he can make.

bankai's are huge cos they represnt how much reiatsu the users have. look how much ice hitsugaya makes when he creates a giant ice dragon when doing bankai. that alone should be enough proof how powerful he is.

in fact, he's only faught aizen, and come on, he's aizen, and luppi, who is #6, and shawlong. he hasn't had any other fights. and when he was at full power, look how he easily defeated shawlong.

he hasn't even done anything that makes him look weak...


hollows
i think one ofthe main things that set hollows apart from shinigami is about their reiatsu.

hollows cannot lwer their reatsu, so it should make sense to thin that they are always at full power, like zaraki. remember the only hollow shown to be able to lower it's reiatsu was that one modified y aizen to be more shinigami-like.

hollows are also beasts, so combine that beast-ness with them alwayss being at full power, it would mean that they are extremely dangerous right? even if a shinigami were to fight a hollow with exactly as much reiatsu as them, the shinigami could be disadvantaged simply cos the hollow would be at full power nd fighting like a monster.

therefore i think vastolorde are just as strong as average captains but are thought of as more dangerous for the above reasons.

it wouldn't make sense if vastolorde had more reiatsu than average captians. that woud mean they would be unstoppable, that's b4 becomng arrancar.


captains
about half the captiains i would say are average when it comes to reiatsu.

they are - zaraki, komamura, byakuya, soifon, hitsugaya, ichimaru, tousen and mayuri. probably in that order. just reiatsu wise though.

these guys could probably take on adjuchas arrancar pretty evenly.

like some captains may be at their peak in other areas like physical strength, speed and agility. som captains may be at their peak inreiatsu,or close t it atleast.

they are - yamamoto, aizen, shunsui, ukitake and unohana.

if aizen only has 4 astolorde, i'm sure they would just be captain level. so turning them into arrancar would make them above captain level, like the above guys.

so i think the captains have nothin to worry about in the winter war.


vizards and arrancar
i think when you become an arrancar and you are fully evolved your reiatsu increases by a certain amount. and you become human and you get a zanpakutou etc...

but we have never seen a fully evolved vizard, as in one made the hougyoku. the vizard all seem incomlete to me cos they don'y really embrace their hollow as much they could.

vizards only every temporarily partially transfom into hollows to get stronger, whereas arrancar pretty much fully transform into humans.

plus, the reiatsu increase ichigo gets from turning into a hollow doesn't seem likea big enough increase when comparing it to the increase hollows get. gillian become as poweful as adjuchas, adjuchas become as powerful as vastolorde, vastolorde become even more powerful than that...butichigo andthe vizards don't jump up that high.

ichigo just jumps from weak captain level to high captian level. unlike hollows who would jump from captain level to above captain level.

so perhaps if aizen uses the hougyoku to become a vizard, i think they will instantly fully transform into hollows becoming much more powerful, but stil being able to use their zanpakutou just like shinigami can.

reiryoku and reiatsu
there is a difference betweeen the two.

reiryoku is the spirit power/energy that ppl have. reiatsu is the physical pressure/force of your reiryoku.

think of reiryoku as water. the higher level your reiatsu is the thicker the water will be. guys with high reiatsu would mean their reiatsu is like a big block of ice, but guys with low reiatsu levels would have reiatsu which is runny like water.

so if your reiatsu is too runny like water it isn't hard/sharp enough to cut through someone whose reiatsu is really tough like achunk of ice.

hierro is somethin else...

saketsu and hakasui
the way i understand it is that saketsu is your source of reiryoku and hakasui isthesource of your shinigami powers (the zanpakutou).

if you stab someone in either, then you will automatically lose all your reiryoku or shinigami power. the wording they use is that they seal it up. buti don't think that's true.

if you get stabbed in your hakasui, you lose your shinigami power and cannot get it back (ichigo had his own powers, he just lost rukias). so it's not really sealing is it?

but you can recover your reiryoku if your saketsu is stabbed, like ichigo did. maybe only coss everyone has reiryoku naturaly anyway.

shikai and bankai
renji and ichigo both achieved bankai in days. that doesn't mean there reiatsu increased by 5-10 times in those 2-3 days. that's impossible.

renji has been training for how many decades to reach bankai? ichigo is a 'pure blood' so he was born with alot of reiryoku. meaning he just had to learn how to tap into it.

learning shikai just means you are in syncwith your zanpakutou mainly. and the more you are in sync withyour zanpakutou, the stronger you get. so the more ichigo synchronized wth zangetsu, the quicker he could access his true power.

by his fight with zaraki he fully matered his power. he became 100% in sync with zangetsu from that point. when he went to learn bankai all he did was polish up his fighting skills, increase his speed and stamina etc...

so after ichigo faught zaraki he was now captain level, likeukitake said. but he still wuldn't have stood a chance against byakuya cos all ichigo had was captainn level reiatsu. his other skills were far from captain level.

if you truly beliveve ichigo's reiatsu increased by 5-10 times when he learn't bankai, then i don't see how you would explain how ichigo could fight zaraki like he did.

the 5-10 times reiatsu increase comes from going from 'shikai level' reiatsu to 'captain/bankai level' reiatsu. which is achieved by becomin 100% synchronized with your zanpakutou. which ichigo did against zaraki. renji also did it, but it took him decades since he's normal. he wsn't born with that much dormant power.

zanpakutou
i always thought of a zanpakutou like a balloon. and the more reiryoku your pour into the balloon, the bigger it get. the balloon getting bigger is supposed the represent shikai and bankai.

i'm not sure if you actually do flow reiryoku directly into the sword though. it may be that the sword releases themore energy you just release. so the sword could just represent your reiryoku.

also, zanpakutou in sealed form get bigger by themself the more reiryoku you have so i guess zanpakutou releases are kinda the same as that. although the difference between knowing it's nameand not knowing it's name is probably what causes it to release.

maybe i'll write more of my thoughts later. like a more easier to understand stats chart than what kubo wrote...

like comparing reiatsu, physical strength, speed and agilty of all the characters in bleach.

this thread took a few days to make to be honest (i kept stopping and starting since i gotta lot of work these days, this is like break time), so dunno how long that will take...i'll post it in this thread though.

WatanukiXXX
02-24-2008, 08:48 AM
Good informative thread tari! Was looking for a more detailed expalanation or reiryoku and the rest!

tari101190
02-24-2008, 08:55 AM
Good informative thread tari! Was looking for a more detailed expalanation or reiryoku and the rest!
ok thanx...

most of what i wrote is like my own theory of how i understand things though. some ppl may say that it isknown, but i've seen things that are horribly, horribly wrong.

like ppl say that byakuya used the gigai replacement technique against zommari...wtf? he used super super super speed. the fastest speeed possible. just ike zommari was doin.

tari101190
02-24-2008, 04:21 PM
so...if i were to rank all relavent bleach characters, it would go somethin like this.

btw i think -
reiatsu + strength = power
speed + agilty = mobility

so take that into account please...

i guess.

some stats i truly believe, some i wasn't sure about so just guessed. there are a few i just chucked in though sure, lets be honest. like yamamoto being 3000 lol. which is realistic in a way...

it's the captains, vice-captains, espada, privaron espada, numeros, main characters, secondary characters...etc...

the catagories are reiatsu, strength, speed and agility.

the grades are A, B, C, D, and E. a C would be average for example.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6200/63208271tk7.th.bmp (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=63208271tk7.bmp)http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7719/25317371fj3.th.bmp (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25317371fj3.bmp)http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9043/10036052va2.th.bmp (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10036052va2.bmp)http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7065/27052580gp6.th.bmp (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=27052580gp6.bmp)

grimmjow's speed increases, like ichigo's speed and agilty increase when they release, so i did a '/' in their stats.

Ryin
02-26-2008, 09:51 AM
hmmm very interesting information. It will take a while to sift through it but I will try my best.

Thinking about it I see Reiryoku as sort of a representation of power. And Reiatsu as a point where that power is. Trying to think of the best way to explain it but think of Reiryoku as the ceiling with which one's spiritual power can grow to. That doesn't mean that one's Reiryoku can't ever be raised. I think it has the potential to be raised AND lowered, but if you take an average soul who has to have Reiryoku inherent in them simply to exist there is nothing they really can do besides exist as a soul. If someone like a shinigami has a reiryoku of X, that represents the current limit of their power. It is always there and they are more or less able to reach that limit at any point in time. (given th circumstances and explanations below)

Reiatsu is where in that point the persons power is. If someone was using all their reiatsu then the reiatsu and the reiyoku would be at the same point. Ichigo, who is usually a bad example for things like this, is almost a perfect example. Someone who has a huge reiryoku. His limit seems vast and even then he is able to push it higher and higher as the series continues. It doesn't mean he always can flare out his reiatsu to reach that limit on command. More often then not it takes some sort of particular scenario for him to make the two meet.

Zaraki's reiryoku and reiatsu are always at the same point as he never fights at less than full power and even takes measure to hinder himself.

I hope this makes sense in someway, trying to explain it is kind of difficult. But I think looking at it in this light may make other things make more sense.

If you are able to raise your reiryoku in a quick amount of time, it doesn't mean you have the ability to control or harness your reiatsu correctly to reach that new limit, which is why Bankai need to be mastered.

If the saketsu is stabbed your ceiling would be 0 and you would have no more powers or, at least, your ceiling would become so minimal that you would only have the power necessary to sustain yourself as a soul.

Reiryoku and Reiatsu have physical manifestations as well as being representative of the limits of one's power.

We have seen that Hollows(or at least arrancar) and Shinigami work, more or less the same way. Cirucci had her powers destroyed by Ishida.

There has been alot of discussion about the way zanpakutou work lately. Zanpakutou seem to have a sort of symbiotic relationship with the shinigami. Even though a zanpakutou avatar would "lend" its power to the shinigami, they are meant to fight as one being. Two beings uniting to become what would be a a new being (this is a loose analogy of course). The hollow takes the beast(or true form) that made it a hollow and seals it into a zanpakutou allowing the arrancar to call out it's power. In this way it could be seen as "reverse symbiosis" The one being seperating itself into a more humanoid person and the sealed beastlyness that resides in it's zanpakutou. Though the zanpakutou for an arrancar is inanimate, the principal is more or less the same. This also plays well into the theme of the juxtaposition of shinigami and hollow that Kubo is so fond of.

Rereading I had found something interesting about what Aizen had said about the Hogyouku and the mixing of powers and blurring of lines. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/175/09/
Starting here and reading for a few pages explainsthe limits of the shinigami "spiritual body limits" and the potential of Vaizard~Arrancar.


I think you are right about the hollows though. A hollows Reiryoku and Reiatsu are probably always the same level. They don't seem to power down.


I think the Espada may be ranked by Reiryoku not Reiatsu if how I explained it makes sense. It would also help to explain why people like Szayel, who seem to be alot stronger than others still have higher nuimbers. Even with his weird tricks his Reiryoku or limit may not be as high as someone like Ulqui or Grimmjow. Aaroniero, since he has the potential for unlimited evolution, could potentially become #1 given enough time and still be killed just as easily by Rukia. It would also account for someone like Nnoi being able to take out Nel. Nel's limit may have been higher, but Nnoi was able to concentrate and focus his Reiatsu to get it to the point to cut her quick enough to defeat her.

Shunpo or kidou all seem to use reiatsu in some way. Focusing your reiatsu in some way or another to perform an action. In the cases of Kidou it is focusing the reiatsu to cast a spell and with shunpo it is giving you the necessariy abilities to be able to control your body while moving at such high speeds.


this may lean more towards more powerful=faster/better at kidou/shunpo but you have to know how to do it to be able to use it effectively. Having the reiatsu to perform it does not = success. I think Renji articulates this well. He has enough reiatsu to be able to use kidou but has no ability to be able to perform it properly regardless. However you still need the limit potential to be able to efectively use the abilities. Byakuya has a really high Reiryoku but has mastered his abilities. He doesn't need to push himself to the limit of his powers just to be able to perform shunpo or high level kidou.


If I were going to categorize it I would probably do something more like AReiryoku(power limit) Rank. A Reiatsu rank and a skills rank. Perhaps a stamina rank as well to show the limits of that person's "soul body" Rankings in general are a difficult business though. We haven't seen much of what some people are capable of but you are probably, at least, on the right general idea with what you have.
Remember. Just because you have a high reiryoku or limit doesn't mean you have the reiatsu control to achieve that limit and just because you have the reiatsu control doesn't mean you have the skill to be able to perform the action. At least that is my take on the topic.

Primera Espada
02-26-2008, 10:25 AM
I don't have the time to read over EVERYTHING, so if I miss something, or repeat something, I apologize.

But the only real flaw I see is the way you've figured agility. Byakuya was slower than zomari. But he had more agility, which is why Zomari couldn't catch him. That's the way to get an edge on someone who has more speed on you. Zomari didn't have that much agility, he relied mostly on the sheer speed, that's what caused the clones, sheer speed.

The rest seems pretty sound

Soranushi
02-27-2008, 06:43 AM
This is quite the informative thread Tari I agree with pretty much everything theres just a few parts that are maybes to me but its explained very well so that doesn't matter because it all makes sense.

tari101190
03-02-2008, 12:49 PM
ok i changed it a bit...

also in chapter 83, ganju says that kaien's reiryoku level was level 6, like the current 13th division vice-captain, so i triedto adapt that kinda stuff to my table. and it fit, suprisingly...making me think what i wrote is pretty accurate (the part's regarding reiryoku/reiatsu i atleast).

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