Initial Premise All Screwed up?

[BlackSoul]

initially this series was about a "normal" human boy who could see ghosts and was made shinigami in an emergency situation.
it was a very shonen-esque story of a supposedly normal protagonist stepping into an unknown world, growing stronger, making friends and enemies alike and taking an important roll as plot progresses.

then we found out ichigo was half-shinigami to begin with.
that was nicely done since it explained how this supposedly normal guy had spiritual powers to begin with and was even able to awaken his own shinigami powers.

but then more plot happened and fairly recently we found out that ichigo's as far from normal as lady gaga is subtle.
he's a bit of everything, quincy, shinigami, hollow, fullbringer and perhaps a bit of human blood and flesh in the mix. but doesn't that greatly mess up what this series was supposed to be?
I mean of course I understand that a series has to make progress, develpment and that it can't always stand still. but where is the part about the underdog "normal" boy fighting for his friends, defeating the big bad? it's suddenly about an experimental being who doesn't belong anywhere and probably was the subject of research of at least two mad scientist shinigami.

bleach sure has gone far from where it started and I'm unsure whether or not it has gone too far for it's own good.

discussions, opinions and silly analogies are welcome here :p

[Serocco]

A lot of people will point to the Arrancar arc, particularly Deicide, Hueco Mundo and Fake Karakura, as the low points of the series.

The decrease in focus of Ichigo's friends, the spotlight revolving around the Shinigami, the frequent losses suffered by Ichigo's friends, the training that Ichigo has to deal with, and Aizen's improbable level of planning. All of which were a far cry from the slice of life, monster of the week format of the first arc.

Given the amount of panels and empty surrounding space they receive, the speech bubbles themselves ballooned into strangling whatever plot they were supposed to be driving, extending any event by months or even years. The fights resemble the sort you'd expect to see in a tournament arc.

It started all the way back at the Soul Society arc, mind you. The Lost Agent arc and the Thousand Year Blood War arc differ from it to a degree, however, so I'd say Bleach returned to its roots.

[Latte]

With the popularity of the Shinigami characters, it is liekly ichigo recieves chnages to fit in more with thier world rather than the opposite happening.

Had it been the other way around, we could be seeing a car chase with Ryuken driving Ichigo and Uryu trying to escape some genetic experiment hollows of Aizen's hollow army whilst they wreck the cit and the army is helpless... maybe...

[Omnificent]

initially this series was about a "normal" human boy who could see ghosts and was made shinigami in an emergency situation.
it was a very shonen-esque story of a supposedly normal protagonist stepping into an unknown world, growing stronger, making friends and enemies alike and taking an important roll as plot progresses.

That's the general premise, but all it really encompasses is the prologue. Stories change as they go but they stuck with him being a substitute shinigami and fighting hollows until now, even in this arc where the hollows are no longer the main villains.


but then more plot happened and fairly recently we found out that ichigo's as far from normal as lady gaga is subtle.
he's a bit of everything, quincy, shinigami, hollow, fullbringer and perhaps a bit of human blood and flesh in the mix. but doesn't that greatly mess up what this series was supposed to be?

No. His mother was a hollowfied, pure-blooded quincy and his father is a noble captain level shinigami so all of his aspects fit.


I mean of course I understand that a series has to make progress, develpment and that it can't always stand still. but where is the part about the underdog "normal" boy fighting for his friends, defeating the big bad? it's suddenly about an experimental being who doesn't belong anywhere and probably was the subject of research of at least two mad scientist shinigami.

Ichigo is a comical, yet brooding high school boy and an amateur shinigami. There, does that fit? Urahara isn't a mad scientist...so far as we know. He's just a scientist who worked to strengthen and help souls.


bleach sure has gone far from where it started and I'm unsure whether or not it has gone too far for it's own good.

What can I say? I love complexity. :)


A lot of people will point to the Arrancar arc, particularly Deicide, Hueco Mundo and Fake Karakura, as the low points of the series.

A lot also say those were the high points now and that the lost substitute shinigami arc was the low point. :)


The decrease in focus of Ichigo's friends,

All of Ichigo's friends were given spotlight, character development and enemies to fight in the Arrancar saga.


the spotlight revolving around the Shinigami,

That's because the shinigami and hollows are the main thesis of bleach. :)


the frequent losses suffered by Ichigo's friends,

They also had frequent wins.


the training that Ichigo has to deal with,

Yeah, god forbid Ichigo's character and powers develop...:confused:


and Aizen's improbable level of planning.

Aizen studied and knew the shinigami and hollows inside and out, what's more Urahara's technologies and his own. He made that clear in the SS arc. There was nothing improbable about him.


All of which were a far cry from the slice of life, monster of the week format of the first arc.

Slice of Life was never a genre of Bleach and that arc was made to introduce the main characters, not keep the series that way all the way through. To be honest, I almost dropped bleach because the regular hollows and first arc began to bore me, but when Byakuya came, defeated Ichigo, introduced the zanpakuto spirit concept, kidnapped Rukia and the group went to SS to fight the gotei, my interest shot back up, I started watching it again and it became one of my favorite series.


Given the amount of panels and empty surrounding space they receive,

It's called minimalism. Kubo focuses on illustrating his characters over his backgrounds to make them more dimensional and for the audience to connect to them more.


the speech bubbles themselves ballooned into strangling whatever plot they were supposed to be driving,

...What does this even mean?


The fights resemble the sort you'd expect to see in a tournament arc.

Yeah, they're called vs. matches and are a corner stone to action shounen lols.


It started all the way back at the Soul Society arc, mind you. The Lost Agent arc and the Thousand Year Blood War arc differ from it to a degree, however, so I'd say Bleach returned to its roots.

To some people, Bleach never lost its roots.

[Scarlet Fire]

Well, IIRC Kubo declared that at the very beginning the group in the human world (Tatsuki, Asano etc.) was supposed to have a lot more space in the plot... then, with all the success of the SS arc, he decided to change a little the focus of the series, but that decision only improved bleach, IMO :)

[Elementalist]

Deviating from standard Shoenen formula can be a very good thing, especially when all those cliches become overused. Bleach does this, but then it becomes a question of "Is it doing this in the right manner?" Or "has it jumped the shark?"

@BlackSoul

Your post seems to be directed primarily towards Ichigo and his "uniqueness." I just want to make sure thats what the topic truly is centered around so as to not make this a Bleach complaints thread.

IMO, Ichigo's development was always at its best when Kubo focused on one aspect of Ichigo's nature, rather than adding more into the mix. In the beginning, the things that made him special were:

- His high growth rate (Still unexplained btw)
- His naturally high amount of rietsu (Explained by Isshin's Captain level status)
- His Bankai being a compression rather than an expansion

A little later, and foreshadowed throughout SS we learned about the Hollow nature. This was actually very epic in the beginning, as it introduced the concept of the Vizards and simultaneously introduced the Arrancar. Hybrids were new, and becoming the "thing" of Bleach. However, I would actually say that it was at this point that the "premise" became a little muddled, but more so in the Fullbringer arc which I'll touch on later. Ichigo's development in Hueco Mundo was not as progressive as it was in SS, I'd even say it took a dip. Then you had the Vizards not living up to expectations, and the Arrancar all dropping like flies. Aizen's & Tosen's characters were both nearly ruined by the hybrid concept, and both along with Ichigo (arguably) were better off as they were. The Arrancar arc overall left people wondering just what the point was of hybrids at all. This is made all the more confusing when Kubo introduces the term "transcendent" through Aizen without explaining what in the world that even is.

Then we have the Fullbringers, and we have yet another group with more powers that Ichigo can somehow learn. The funny thing about this arc is that, Kubo confirms that he designed Ichigo's Fullbring to be repulsive, so that when he does gain his Shinigami robes back it will be that much more satisfying for the fans. While this arc is indeed far from the initial premise, it still has a point in that the main character regains and picks themselves back up. The main character can't go on living a normal life anymore after what they had been through, and this is also a troupe in other good Shonen. Kubo makes it very clear that being a Shingami is what the main character wants in this arc. He makes it very clear that being a normal human is not what the main character wants, and neither is Fullbring which is just a substitute for that. The main character comes of age in this arc.

The Vandenreich saga so far has been very good, and strays away from Shonen cliches but in a very good way. The arc IMO was much better planned and paced then previous, and so I have few complaints. The complaints that I do have with it however, pertains to the "jumping the shark" notion I said at the beginning of this post. Kubo... manages to actually "arguably" go back on what I said at the end of the last paragraph in regards to the main character's development, by making him a Quincy. A Quincy, which Ichigo has had no affiliation with whatsoever (aside from Uryu) or foreshadowing to like with his hollow form. This is explained by his mother Masaki being a Quincy, which while done a very well told flashback, and a great character in her own right.

However, my problem comes from the fact that I don't get: Why does Kubo give Ichigo "more" when hes hardly mastered what he already has? I get that his mother is a Quincy, but you don't have to make Ichigo one because of it. Uryu should be the one playing that role in Ichigo's nakama group and helping him come to terms with his mother's heritage, not Ichigo himself. Not only does this all mean that Ichigo is a Quincy, but Kubo specifically makes "humans" different from Quincy, Shinigami, and Hollows. I'd hate to think that theres yet another set of powers to learn, so I'm taking this at face value and thinking it means just normal humans, due to Isshin being in-between a human/Shinigami because of Urahara's special gigai. The most positive aspect I can get out of this is that Kubo has went into more detail about how the world works in Bleach with the various powers and their roles in relation to and opposite of one another, which does make sense.

Summary:

In my personal opinion, Ichigo's development, and the the original premise of the series was best when Ichigo merely had to focus on Zangetsu, hence his Shinigami powers. This is not a bias towards Shinigami, but merely an observation of what I have observed. The original meaning to me, and about Bleach was personal development and about who you are. Instead, with Ichigo being everything, the premise now feels like its about what you are. I have given up any thought that Kubo will develop Ichigo normally at this point. The only conclusion I can get at is that Ichigo will become some kind of god akin to the Spirit King (transcendent due to his nature) by the end of the series.

People may ask what the problem with this is, it goes back to what I said. Where is the main character's choice? He chose back in the Fullbringer arc imo, so that is his character to me. Its become about circumstances and "what" you are rather than "who" and that overrides the original premise.

That being said Bleach has not become "bad" to me at all, its just an issue I wish Kubo never delved into at times. Some things are best kept simple and balanced, so I'll just leave it at that.

[B. Haddrell]

All of what is happening is part of a much bigger picture. Tite Kubo started to build the stage step by step. It is a bit like a growing onion. It starts with one layer that forms its own story, what you, Black Soul, called initial premise. More layers were added, each of them could be seen as another story building on what happened before.

What we are seeing now is probably the most important sub-arc, the story that gives us the foundation for the final act – the origin story of the Kurosakis and Ishidas. From the very beginning Bleach was about the conflict between Shinigami and Quincies. Both sides are represented by Ichigo and Uryuu – I think Bleach aims at it that both sides (I really hope so!) will eventually find a way after a lot of struggles and sacrifices and with the help of friends to bring the conflict to an end so that there will be a future for Shinigami and Quincies after all.

I gave the latest Ichigo FC version the title “Bridge between worlds” because this is what Ichigo is. We have seen this already and this will become even more visible in future.

Therefore I voted that there is no screw up. The contrary, I find it amazing and fascinating to watch how the series is unfolding from the very start onwards.

[Griffith]

I just wonder to myself what Bleach would've been like if Ichigo was just a kid who became a samurai ghost who fought evil ghosts and that's IT. Sometimes i re-imagine what SS would've been like if it was just Ichigo and his sword versus just Samurai and their sword.. no shikai.. no bankai.. just pure grit, strategy, and determination to win and save Rukia.. i think it would've been even better in my opinion.

But instead we get.. BANKAI! GETSUGATENSHOUGETSUGATENSHOUGETSUGATENSHOU!

[BlackSoul]

@Elementalist: nay, I certainly wouldn't want this to detorigate into yet another bleach complain thread.
I focused mainly on ichigo because he's the main protagonist and the story started with him. IMO the initial premise of this series - ordinary high school student gets powers and fights the bad guy - has vastly changed.

but that musn't mean it's a bad thing at all; I merely wanted to ask if I'm the only one thinking so and if this is thought to be a good thing or not overall.
I mean everyone still has their own impressions on this subject and that's just fine.

[Saiyan5ninetail]

@Elementalist: nay, I certainly wouldn't want this to detorigate into yet another bleach complain thread.
I focused mainly on ichigo because he's the main protagonist and the story started with him. IMO the initial premise of this series - ordinary high school student gets powers and fights the bad guy - has vastly changed.

but that musn't mean it's a bad thing at all; I merely wanted to ask if I'm the only one thinking so and if this is thought to be a good thing or not overall.
I mean everyone still has their own impressions on this subject and that's just fine.

Ichigo's character has developed and grown and the story has also changed and grown as well. For me, it makes the story that much more interesting; I would not want Ichigo to have remained the way he was at the beginning of the series because there is only so much you can get out of such a story. An adapting and changing premise, I feel, is the key to a long-running manga's success. Some still keep a basic goal in mind, but it is still the same thing.

Take a look at One Piece. The basic premise is Luffy becoming the Pirate King, but each new arc has a different premise, its own unique story and characters, and addresses something new in the world of One Piece. It is that world building that has ensured Oda's place as the #1 mangaka in Japan, and One Piece's place as the #1 manga of all time.

Bleach's story also grows and changes along with its characters, while the basic premise of Ichigo's character is his desire to protect those around him. In the process, Ichigo grows to learn more about the world around him, and also about who he is as an individual.

[Ichigo]

We all knew Ichigo was part Human, Shinigami, and Hollow heading into this final arc. Not to mention there was always some connection between Isshin and Ryuuken that was never explained. Masaki being a Quincy fits that void and also allows Ichigo to expand as the protagonist. I don't have any problem because we already knew Ichigo was some crazy hybrid to begin with. Now if Ichigo develops full blown Quincy powers then I may have something else to say about the direction of the series. However, adding blunt to his arsenal would add some diversity instead of Getsuga Tenshou every 2 mins...

[MiyamotoKenpachi]

to me it makes no difference to be honest. i never viewed Bleach that way..i was looking for a character that would please me ..and Kenpachi Zaraki was the one..and even then in the beginning Kenpachi even explained that he was the one,,..so i waited very long time for that to become true...and ...finaly...Kubo is doing it I'm having the moment i waited for so long...like i said before the rest of the Bleach caracters are filler to me..they go along i just watch it for Zaraki to shine..and after that..im OK with it..what the story was ment to be and has become it doesn't botter me , couse i never viewed it that way O_o..

I'm the most Lucky Bleach reader there is O_o

[Herakles]

Well, I voted my vote rests in the please don't distract me from reading bleach with this silly question option. ;) Because that is how I generally feel about what you have said.

At first, you mention that it was a very Shounen-esque story, Ichigo did some pretty cliché things (to actually help the story actually kick start), but then all of a sudden Ichigo becoming all of these things apparently messes up what the story was supposed to be?

I do not compute with this thought process sorry.

As soon as the narration becomes elaborated, why is it that the circumstances behind a main protagonist developing is a "screw up"? All narratives evolve and shape their characters to clearly contrast the difference between how the plot was first constructed to how the plot was resolved. Some great writing can further this by making a reflection of the original foundations of what the narration was initially built on. A great example of this would be at the end of the Fullbringer arc, where Ichigo makes a request to the Gotei 13 to actually signify him as a real Substitute Shinigami - not some thief whom stole Rukia's power like he was initially made out to be.

So that in effect reaffirms the existence of Ichigo's catalyst as a character.

The construction of Ichigo as a main protagonist is one of the most elaborate and unique ideas I have actually ever read/watched in any manga, novel, film and short story. Which is the idea of Ichigo being "who he is" based off the trial and error of Aizen's experimentation, the radical decisions of his father, Masaki's intuition to protect anyone she felt needed her, Ryuken's reproach and Kisuke's intervention. From this, Ichigo is then moulded into who we know him as that reflects the entire circumstance of what we have seen unfold in Everything but the Rain and not to mention the schemes from Turn Back the Pendulum.

One doesn't necessarily have to like it, but I personally believe they should be appreciative that these concepts actually give us a context to whom Ichigo is, not only a person, but a representation in the Manga itself. Not to mention it creates this elaboration where Ichigo isn't the character he is depicted to be, merely because he is an "asspull" main protagonist as so many delude themselves into believing. Kubo creates this explanation to emphasise these elements that allows us to viably see the circumstances leading up to creating Ichigo.

That being said, Ichigo is still the underdog "normal" boy fighting for his friends, defeating the big bad guy by the way. However Ichigo was never a normal boy and he still does fight for his friends and attempts to defeat the big bad guy. Or at least he is going to defeat the big bad guy, the plot hasn't progressed to that point yet because we are furthering insight into Ichigo's origins and also the origins of other characters as well.

To further explain why the foundations of Ichigo's character still exist:


In the Fullbringer Arc, Ichigo wanted to regain his powers as a Shinigami so he could return to protecting his friends from Hollows.


After the Fullbringer Arc, Ichigo did go back to being a Substitute Shinigami that allowed him to effectively fight for his friends and the people he wants to protect. This was reflected in the fact that Orihime, Chad, Uryu and Ichigo showed up to protect Yuki and Shino who were about to be devoured by Hollows.


Ichigo rushed off to Hueco Muendo to rescue Dondochakka upon Nel's request and tried to protect them from the chaos that was being caused by the Quincy.


Then to progress things further, Ichigo went to the Soul Society to fight the "big bad guy" and protect his family, friends and comrades. Byakuya even imposes his duty on Ichigo as a Shinigami Captain and a person where he requests Ichigo to fill his shoes and continue to fight for what he could not.


He even faced off with Yhwach and stood firm and said he would NOT let him leave after he made such a mess of the Soul Society.


After that altercation, Ichigo even travels with Squad 0 to the Soul King's realm to ensure that he is able to reforge his Zanpakuto to continue fighting. All the more while Ichigo is shaken up as he has had a bombshell dropped on him by the enemy and then begins to feel guilty for lapping up the luxury of the Soul King's Realm while the Soul Society is in ruins.


So the foundations of his character still exist, it is just that Kubo is currently elaborating on Ichigo and evidently other characters, in order to get to fighting the big bad guy and protecting his friends - in reflection to the entire motif Ichigo's character has been built on.

At least, these are my thoughts and hopefully it explains why I placed my vote as please don't distract me from reading bleach with this silly question option. Basically I feel that over thinking these things eventually begins to sap your enjoyment from Bleach in a way that doesn't need to happen. Simply because Kubo is furthering everything about his characters with back stories, dialogue, characterisation, resolutions of the plot and more, to foster our understanding of the circumstances this arc takes place in and why, which will eventually lead on to what we really desire from all of our Shounen Protagonists.

So let's be patient and let the story unfold first.

:cool:

[Seri55]

↑ @Herakles, I can't rep, I have to spread the love around :)..but I surely, agree in writing novels and such there is so much complexity that is involved. We might not like where the author is going or what he is doing to the main character; however, that is how characters develops. They do not stay on the same plateau throughout the whole story-there must be character progression/development. While it is your right to express your feelings, we should allow Kubo to do what he does best. Writing is an art and it's not something simple that anyone of us can do.

[Herakles]

Thanks Seri, it's diversity. Ichigo isn't just a one dimensional protagonist in his Manga; he underwent extensive evolutions numerous times that actually reflect on the initial premise.

I also agree with Omnificent, I enjoy complexity - and Ichigo doesn't feel screwed up to me at all. He has been evolved, developed and shaped in a way that mirrors what we first saw, in contrast to what we are seeing now, which is a complete elaboration of character and highly enjoyable.

This is obviously what I think at least.

[Tekken13]

The basic premise was Ichigo being special. He wasn't normal by any stretch. He could see ghosts about as clearly as seeing a living person. The only other person that had that ability at the time was Karin. The fact that he broke a kido without being in shinigami form in the very first chapter made even Rukia questioned his identity and that was the beginning of the mystery as to why Ichigo is so strong, which is where we are today. Also, Kubo said he intended for Isshin to be revealed as Shinigami after the first chapter. And if Isshin is a shinigami, then Masaki would have to be at least spiritually aware in order for them to have met in the first place. Kubo made not have had it planned that Masaki to be revealed as a Quincy since the very beginning, but it make sense. There were a couple of clues of her identity. For instance, when Isshin gave Ichigo a charm that was originally Masaki's with the word ''protect'' written on it, and happened to have magic/kido-like abilities at the time Isshin used it on Grand fisher to save Kon(inside) Ichigo's body.

[Ryoma]

Ichigo was never normal in the first place. I explained why here: http://bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?653-Ichigo-s-Quincy-Powers-and-Shinigami-Powers-(Theory)

[thebomb.com]

initially this series was about a "normal" human boy who could see ghosts and was made shinigami in an emergency situation.
it was a very shonen-esque story of a supposedly normal protagonist stepping into an unknown world, growing stronger, making friends and enemies alike and taking an important roll as plot progresses.

I actually disagree in that I don't think Ichigo was ever "normal," even in the very beginning of the series. The only thing normal about him was that he was a high school student; he clearly wasn't ever one to blend in with the crowd (and his orange hair never helped). He was picked on as a kid for his appearance, he was present-ish when his mother was killed (I add the "-ish" because Ichigo didn't actually SEE her get killed and only woke up to find that she had died), his dad is totally weird (and then you find out he's a SHINIGAMI), he is a good enough fighter (pre-supernatural powers) that other regional students seem to recognize him, etc. And now we're starting to find out that many of the circumstances of his life were made unusual because of who his parents are and how they got together... etc etc etc.

And there are definitely some departures from being a "typical" shounen story, but that only makes me appreciate Bleach more.

These guys say it better than me:

At first, you mention that it was a very Shounen-esque story, Ichigo did some pretty cliché things (to actually help the story actually kick start), but then all of a sudden Ichigo becoming all of these things apparently messes up the what the story was supposed to be?

I do not compute with this thought process sorry.

As soon as the narration becomes elaborated, why is it that the circumstances behind a main protagonist developing is a "screw up"? All narratives evolve and shape their characters to clearly contrast the difference between how the plot was first constructed to how the plot was resolved. Some great writing can further this by making a reflection of the original foundations of what the narration was initially built on. A great example of this would be at the end of the Fullbringer arc, where Ichigo makes a request to the Gotei 13 to actually signify him as a real Substitute Shinigami - not some thief whom stole Rukia's power like he was initially made out to be.

So that in effect reaffirms the existence of Ichigo's catalyst as a character.

The construction of Ichigo as a main protagonist is one of the most elaborate and unique ideas I have actually ever read/watched in any manga, novel, film and short story. Which is the idea of Ichigo being "who he is" based off the trial and error of Aizen's experimentation, the radical decisions of his father, Masaki's intuition to protect anyone she felt needed her, Ryuken's reproach and Kisuke's intervention. From this, Ichigo is then moulded into who we know him as that reflects the entire circumstance of what we have seen unfold in Everything but the Rain and not to mention the schemes from Turn Back the Pendulum.

One doesn't necessarily have to like it, but I personally believe they should be appreciative that these concepts actually give us a context to whom Ichigo is, not only a person, but a representation in the Manga itself. Not to mention it creates this elaboration where Ichigo isn't the character he is depicted to be, merely because he is an "asspull" main protagonist as so many delude themselves into believing. Kubo creates this explanation to emphasise these elements that allows us to viably see the circumstances leading up to creating Ichigo.

That being said, Ichigo is still the underdog "normal" boy fighting for his friends, defeating the big bad guy by the way. However Ichigo was never a normal boy and he still does fight for his friends and attempts to defeat the big bad guy. Or at least he is going to defeat the big bad guy, the plot hasn't progressed to that point yet because we are furthering insight into Ichigo's origins and also the origins of other characters as well.


The basic premise was Ichigo being special. He wasn't normal by any stretch. He could see ghosts about as clearly as seeing a living person. The only other person that had that ability at the time was Karin. The fact that he broke a kido without being in shinigami form in the very first chapter made even Rukia questioned his identity and that was the beginning of the mystery as to why Ichigo is so strong, which is where we are today. Also, Kubo said he intended for Isshin to be revealed as Shinigami after the first chapter. And if Isshin is a shinigami, then Masaki would have to be at least spiritually aware in order for them to have met in the first place. Kubo made not have had it planned that Masaki to be revealed as a Quincy since the very beginning, but it make sense. There were a couple of clues of her identity. For instance, when Isshin gave Ichigo a charm that was originally Masaki's with the word ''protect'' written on it, and happened to have magic/kido-like abilities at the time Isshin used it on Grand fisher to save Kon(inside) Ichigo's body.


However, my problem comes from the fact that I don't get: Why does Kubo give Ichigo "more" when hes hardly mastered what he already has? I get that his mother is a Quincy, but you don't have to make Ichigo one because of it. Uryu should be the one playing that role in Ichigo's nakama group and helping him come to terms with his mother's heritage, not Ichigo himself. Not only does this all mean that Ichigo is a Quincy, but Kubo specifically makes "humans" different from Quincy, Shinigami, and Hollows. I'd hate to think that theres yet another set of powers to learn, so I'm taking this at face value and thinking it means just normal humans, due to Isshin being in-between a human/Shinigami because of Urahara's special gigai.
This is one thing that does irk me. I wish Ichigo could have more mastery of his current set of powers instead of adding a whole new kind to the mix. Is it so terrible that I want Ichigo to get at least SOME kidou down? Come on, bankai but no kidou? And I'm sure there were more things his bankai could do... well maybe Kubo's saving that for future training chapters.

[Desmond Miles]

Perhaps Kubo changed a few things about what being he was going to be as the story progressed. If he planned this from the very beginning then he is a genius.

[Franco]

where is the part about the underdog "normal" boy fighting for his friends, defeating the big bad? it's suddenly about an experimental being who doesn't belong anywhere and probably was the subject of research of at least two mad scientist shinigami.

I can relate with you on that one, mate. I leaped into the series expecting your run-of-the-mill Monster of the Day format per episode - very much like Pokemon. Yes, I admit, I once thought I could compare Bleach to Pokemon. :p But see, if the series kept that formulaic approach to all its episodes... then I can't imagine the boredom I'd have to sit through, watching Ichigo having to save his people over and over and over again.

If Bleach followed the usual "saving people and beating bad guys on the side" format, there would have been little wiggle-room for Kubo to fully expand Ichigo. If all Ichigo did was save people and beat bad guys, wouldn't that be a little bit too boring? We'd have the same themes of power, responsibility, and friendship shoved in our faces every week. We'd see Ichigo suffering from the same issues of helplessness repeatedly. I honestly don't really want to see that happen.

Although as Elementalist mentioned earlier, the current development Ichigo's getting might not be such a good thing after all.

One of the reasons I like the series as it is is because it can easily cross over into seinen territory if it wanted to. It's clearly entirely different from the rest of the shonen mangas out there - heck, even Ichigo himself is a cut above the rest of the shonen heroes. See how he doesn't display so many of their stereotypes (big eater, boasting about their power in every panel, being as loud as all hell)?

The changes have worked out for me just fine so far. It gets predictable at times, but it keeps me interested enough to continue reading it, at least. :cool:

[happystars]

For me, I voted "No it isn't", because I feel that throughout Bleach, the basic premise is on ichigo's character as a protector and fighting battles, and it hasn't changed at all. For example, in the beginning of Bleach, ichigo wanted to protect a little girl spirit chased by a hollow. Then, to save his family, he became a shinigami with the help of Rukia.

Subsequently, every arc is basically about a villain who appeared, and ichigo defeating said villain to protect a particular victim. In the process, Ichigo met set-backs; he learnt from them, grew stronger and go on to defeat the villian. It's the same pattern in the Soul Society arc (villian- Soul Society, victim to be protected: Rukia), Arrancar arcs (Villains- Aizen and his arrancars, victims: Soul Society, K town and Inoue), Lost Agent arc (Villian- Fullbringers; victims- ichigo's friends and family (from ichigo's pov), and in the current arc (the Vandenreich quincies as main villains at the moment, and Soul Society as victims at the moment). It's just that more complexity (such as morally ambiguous characters like Urahara and the Soul Society being a questionable "heaven" for souls to arrive to) and more plot details has been added to this basic premise to make Bleach a much more interesting and continuously evolving story despite the basic shonen plot premise, which is something I enjoyed a lot.

I have to admit that if Bleach stuck to just Ichigo' schoolmates as the main focus, it would be a lot less interesting. Now, it's entirely multidimensional and complex, with the scale of plot perhaps approaching epic scale level as we continue in this track- soul king, which is the cornerstone of the spirit world, and perhaps Kubo may even delve into explaining about the fundamental fabric which makes up the spirit world, and other worlds. Who knows?? I'm very excited to see how Bleach will continue, and I hope that Kubo will continue in this line, and ends Bleach eventually in a complex yet satisfying ending.

P.S.: However, I have to admit that I really hope that Kubo doesn't give Ichigo the full range of Quincies powers (But maybe one or two would be nice). This is because to me, despite Ichigo being described as a hybrid of all races, in terms of spiritual power he remains a shinigami at heart, with all other races' powers a supplement to his main shinigami identity. If Kubo were to give Ichigo a bow and arrow, and changes his attire to a white cloak in this arc, I feel that it would indeed diverge away from one of the sub-premises of Bleach, which is ichigo's self perceived identity (and the reader's perception) of him as a shinigami. Though, somehow the thought of Ichigo perhaps evolving into the Soul King (who knows?) doesn't bother me as much as him becoming a quincy. I guess it may be because becoming the Soul King may be spiritual evolution to the highest level (though I may be wrong as the Soul King remains entirely mysterious), while becoming a quincy is merely a side-step into another type of spiritual power in the Bleach world, similar to Ichigo side-stepping into the hollow or fullbring powers. (Oops my postscript is too long:p)

Anyway, just my two cents opinion :)

[harahara]

There was never an actual premise for Bleach's story, nor was there ever a goal for Ichigo to strive for. The only "base" that you could criticize is Ichigo's theme of "protection". That was Ichigo's main thing back then and still remains. Therefore, the main character's "premise" is not screwed up.

Him having all different aspects "Quincy/Shinigami/Hollow" is subjective. Some like the concept, and others don't.

The only problem I have with Ichigo is his personality, it was decent the first 2 arcs, but after his issue with his inner hollow started to pop, his character went downhill. But oh well, that's a whole other topic.

[BlackSoul]

There was never an actual premise for Bleach's story, nor was there ever a goal for Ichigo to strive for. The only "base" that you could criticize is Ichigo's theme of "protection". That was Ichigo's main thing back then and still remains. Therefore, the main character's "premise" is not screwed up.

Him having all different aspects "Quincy/Shinigami/Hollow" is subjective. Some like the concept, and others don't.

The only problem I have with Ichigo is his personality, it was decent the first 2 arcs, but after his issue with his inner hollow started to pop, his character went downhill. But oh well, that's a whole other topic.

of course there was a premise, duh!
every story must have a premise, something to start and build the plot around or it's not a story at all.

in bleach's case it was ichigo being made shinigami by rukia and fighting hollows. a "normal" guy stepping into an unknown and abnormal word. yes, that was pretty much the inital premise in a few short words.