2008 American Presidential Elections [Archive] - Page 2

Shdo

10-06-2008, 01:52 AM

actually they keep on doing this with even more groups, they connected him to palestinian terror, eco terror, black supremacy terror...damn he was busy...

the only thing i actually understood something about was the palestinian terror part.
apparently this professor in the university obama was in was palestinian and part of the PLO...a terrorist organisation at the time.

what they forget is that the now days palestinian authority IS the PLO including the current leader. so everyone who knows someone in the palestinian authority are collaborators? dosnt that include every world leader?

and of course that professor is against israel and call it a catastrophe, he is a palestinian, i am israeli and i get it why cant fox news get it? just because they were in the same university at the same time dosnt make them secret part of some hideous conspiracy that apparently include every single evil you can think about.

still, i dont like him, he is shady with his soft policies and the amount of media bias that surround him which make it look like he is a rockstar.

EDIT: bradc, now you pissed me off, explain how its a jewish war and ill break your argument like dry matzha.

bradc

10-06-2008, 01:56 AM

America friends with Isreal... or I watch way too much Boston Legal because they made their God, All Mighty. All relgiions are in Middle East, or someone poorly name the place because the truth is there.

Tenonee

10-06-2008, 01:58 AM

I can appreciate not liking him for soft policies but his celebrity appearance is his supporters' fault, not his.

The election has based itself far too much on liking the candidate and not necessarily their policies on both sides which sadly reflects the poor state of the American people and possibly why we get into situations like these.

(Not saying that's how anyone here bases their opinion... want to make that clear :oops)

Shdo

10-06-2008, 02:00 AM

they also friends with canada, and with saudi and with the europian union.
your point? start posting things that actually make sense, back your claims with some facts or at least quasi logical knowladge or you will soon start to see alot of your comments getting deleted for spam.

EDIT: i dont really like his hard fans as well, but him surfing teh wave and allowing the media to pamper him (for example the view interview) simply shows me that he cant really stand on his own if asked the tough questions and animosity like Mccain recieve all the time (beside Fox but somone need to suckup to the other side) and preffer to let the love of his own interviewers to avoid the hard truth.

weak massage (in essence, the change moto is quite successful even though vague, i got no idea how he won against hilary), fanatical fans, this guys isnt a politician he is a popstar.

kiera2

10-06-2008, 03:14 AM

Religion has no place in politics that's why :hug
If only that were true in practice. Have you seen the figures for how many Americans would not vote for an atheist President, just because they were atheist? The Middle East isn't the only place where religion affects politics.

Shdo

10-06-2008, 02:18 PM

well, many religious people dont see an atheist as someone with strong morals, and also people tend to vote to people who have a POV close to theirs and religion is a factor just like any factor including for an atheist which is similer to lack of policy at the matter (which would disturb many)

ookami

10-06-2008, 04:48 PM

I think sciece has a stronger foothole than religion in any debate, mainly because and heres the kicker............. science is fact religion is in basic terms worshiping a higher beings magic. appart from Buddism. This is why i don't like Sarah Palin, in a nuclear fallout she will wait for god ¬¬ to stop the warheads. she accused on of Obamas cabinate of being a terrorist(domestic), he can do his job hes not involved in this Jihad let him do the job, he was part of a 60s activist group which most of our grandparents were apart of lol.

Shdo

10-06-2008, 05:01 PM

but science lack faith, which is a powerful tool no matter how you look at it. and it is a factor in every election, those who downplay it will find themselves in the dirt.
also, just because she is religious dosnt mean that she will just wait for the warheads to fall, you assume that because you know little. being religious and being realistic dosnt contradict each other.

ookami

10-06-2008, 06:08 PM

Hahaha shes too religous to look at the science of everything, god knows how anyone explain the birds and the bees to her. She obviously will rely on her religon and claim her religion SAVED AMERICA! when it was some guy shooting down a missle with a detorrent.

Shdo

10-06-2008, 06:11 PM

and you base that on what? when you do this you are no different than the guy who say that Obama is a hidded muslim terrorist, you both play the assumption game without any evidance to back you up, just because you are on the 'good side' dosnt make your tactic right.

ookami

10-06-2008, 06:13 PM

We have to assume you idiot, she hasn't been put in the situations yet.

Shdo

10-06-2008, 06:14 PM

so you just admitted you decided that she dosnt fit for office without any evidance to support it?

ookami

10-06-2008, 06:17 PM

No I've looked at her last debate with JOE BIDEN HE KICKED HER ASS BACK TO ALASKA!!!! to add im not angry, I'm just really glad he managed it:)

Shdo

10-06-2008, 06:26 PM

No I've looked at her last debate with JOE BIDEN HE KICKED HER ASS BACK TO ALASKA!!!! to add im not angry, I'm just really glad he managed it:)

i watched it as well and didnt really see him kick her ass back to alaska, both of them had good points on all the topics.
but ofcourse that you can see what you want to see.

kiera2

10-06-2008, 06:31 PM

...both of them had good points on all the topics.
Tell me you're not serious.

ookami

10-06-2008, 06:34 PM

One of them did Joe Biden.

Shdo

10-06-2008, 06:38 PM

ookami

10-06-2008, 07:27 PM

Shdo: it was a metaphor she got beat ¬¬

Shdo

10-06-2008, 07:45 PM

i know, which isnt true anyway, she kept her calm, she answered the questions and while it wasnt a win for her it wasnt the crush so many hoped for.

Inevitable.Exit

10-06-2008, 09:07 PM

i know, which isnt true anyway, she kept her calm, she answered the questions and while it wasnt a win for her it wasnt the crush so many hoped for.She didn't have any huge mistakes and didn't break down in tears and run away. It was a win for the McCain campaign. Regardless of what most think, the Palin Project could have backfired hard for McCain. And it started to. But they have kind of righted that ship, although her unfavorable rating continues to rise and Obama's swing state and national lead continues to grow. He is now winning states that he wasn't before and that have been historically republican.

♠ Saint ♠

10-07-2008, 01:25 AM

The only huge mistake she made was trying to be snarky and telling Biden that "Your plan is a white flag of surrender!" when she herself answered the question moments earlier with everything BUT a damn plan! That chick lies through her teeth and it scares me.

kiera2

10-07-2008, 03:37 AM

its a matter of prespective, if you dont like her it dosnt mean you can just claim she got her ass kicked to alaska, you might find her points as wrong but there are plenty who see it as valid and serious points or otherwise Obama would have 100% of the votes.
She flat-out ignored the questions she didn't have answers for, and spouted memorised rhetoric for the rest. The difference between Palin and Biden is that the latter actually knows enough about the issues to have his own opinions on them. This is not a matter of disagreeing with Palin's points of view because she doesn't have any.

Fortunate

10-07-2008, 05:18 AM

i know, which isnt true anyway, she kept her calm, she answered the questions and while it wasnt a win for her it wasnt the crush so many hoped for.

You'd have to be a brick to not see she got destroyed. I'll admit she kept her calm, for the most part. She did seem a little flustered as the debate went on, but it didn't show much. I don't remember her answering any questions, or at least not most of them. And according to MSNBC, she was spewing mostly lies and false information.

Spartan27

10-07-2008, 07:09 AM

Palin showed in the debate that she offers nothing for politics except folksy uneducated talk as well as well placed winks. It's one thing when you try and answer questions with broad safe statements, it's quite another when you don't even answer the questions and go on to speak in general about maverick this and maverick that. We don't need people talking about how they are a maverick we need plans, we need strategies, and she offered none.

The women can't even give any plans, she doesn't offer anything of substance. You can talk about all you like about how you are different from those in washington, but until you give something that show exactly what you or your candidate is going to offer, you are only give weak empty statements that offer nothing to the campaign.

Shdo

10-07-2008, 09:07 AM

i still dont think she was 'destroyed or got her ass kicked like all of you think, didnt said she did well but i still dont think she got owned. overly it was a boring debate.

balladbird

10-07-2008, 09:11 AM

overly it was a boring debate.

I can agree with this sentiment. It was as plain a spectacle as any VP debate ever is. The biggest reason so many people tuned in is because Palin was participating, and, like so many nascar fans, they watched hoping to get to see a fiery crash.

Palin's performance was horrible, but she succeeded in what her campaign wanted her to do. Namely, be female and sassy, and not burst into tears and run off the stage. Of course she didn't answer the questions well. She's a superficial ploy, and it's a fact that the republican party has been shamelessly flaunting since she was nominated.

Spartan27

10-07-2008, 10:33 AM

I have to say, Shdo is right in that she didn't get destroyed, at least in how the country will look at the debate. The fact is that she said what she needed to say. The fact is that Palin with her experience as well as what had happened in the past month was not going to pick up many if any voters, what she could have done is lost voters, and she didn't do that.

Right wing republicans love her, they love her style, they love her background, they love what she stands for, as well as the simple fact that the they don't have many if any young up an coming leaders, there's a few like Jindai in Louisiana, but there is a shortage of young politicians in the party. The republicans are desperate for new blood, and she represents hope for the future of the party. What she did in this debate is appeal to that base, but she didn't pick up independents or right leaning democrats.

Now in terms of if this was an actual debate, she got beat, and she got beat not by a wide wide margin, but it wasn't close either. If Biden had wanted to, he could have destroyed her, but he did what he needed to do, which was keep the focus on McCain and Obama.

Palin in general has done one thing, energize the Republican base, which is actually quite significant, it could be argued that the gap that McCain faces could have been even wider if it wasn't for the inclusion of Palin.

Shdo

10-07-2008, 10:48 AM

its weird that she is considered new blood but her views are more conservative than mccain.

cornflakes

10-07-2008, 12:23 PM

You'd have to be a brick to not see she got destroyed. I'll admit she kept her calm, for the most part. She did seem a little flustered as the debate went on, but it didn't show much. I don't remember her answering any questions, or at least not most of them. And according to MSNBC, she was spewing mostly lies and false information.
Actually, both sides are about equally guilty on that last charge (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_el_pr/debate_fact_check).

Spartan27

10-07-2008, 02:54 PM

Actually, both sides are about equally guilty on that last charge (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_el_pr/debate_fact_check).

It's true, Biden had a number of borderline lies in the debate as well. Palin was a little more guilty of it. But really when it comes down to it, this is just one of the facts about debates (at least in the US). Candidates basically exaggerate claims and rearrange facts, or take things out of context.

♠ Saint ♠

10-08-2008, 01:57 AM

its weird that she is considered new blood but her views are more conservative than mccain.

I think the new blood remark is in regards to having more young Republicans rather than a bunch of crotchety old farts. Not so much how conservative her ideas are or aren't.

Shdo

10-08-2008, 06:33 AM

well she is more younger but his views are much more younger then hers.

kiera2

10-08-2008, 03:04 PM

Palin showed in the debate that she offers nothing for politics except folksy uneducated talk as well as well placed winks.
This.

She did great stylistically, which is why she seemed to do okay on the surface. But just try reading a transcript of what she said without cringing.

Rain

10-08-2008, 04:27 PM

But just try reading a transcript of what she said without cringing.

what was oen thing she said

"Say it ain't so joe, there ya go focusing ont he past again"

yes, because nothing shows you are the party of the future like using a phrase that is almost 100 years old...

^Originally said by the daily show :lmao

you're totally right thoughm, listening to what she said isn't easy. She often contradicts herself, and I personally think of it as pandering

Fortunate

10-08-2008, 05:58 PM

"We don't need any on the job training..."

The republican ticket is looking more like a joke each and every day.

Miss Lolita

10-08-2008, 11:47 PM

Anyone else watch yesterday's debate between the prezes?

McCain needed to absolutely smash last night, but didn't. I think he needs to assert his points more rather than spew a list of whatever Obama's reportedly done (and Obama did this too - I believe about half of it was bullshit) and vice versa. Both wandered off topic and babbled and didn't follow the "rules" they both agreed to. Anyone agree/disagree?

Shdo

10-09-2008, 12:06 AM

it was a boring tie, both of them were plain and didnt pushed hard enough.

this actually helps obama because he wants everything to stay as it is, getting the lead thanks to his charisma, i watched his speech today and one thing is for sure, he know how to speak.

BleachOD

10-09-2008, 12:08 AM

They didn't follow the rules but McCain drew first blood.
What is annoying is McCain is complaining about Tom Brokaw's bias. When he set the rules. Obama just agreed.
I think Obama did his thing and it should be evident after last night. Obama is top pick

I so wish my Grandfather was still alive so I could go to Hofstra for the final debate. I guess I will stand outside. (I live near it)

Spartan27

10-09-2008, 01:04 AM

Last nights "debate" was horrible, personally I don't like these town house style debates. Overall the thing was basically a rehash of the first one. I don't think I heard one new thing from either candidate. The Debate certainly didn't change anyone's perspective, which I guess could count as a win for Obama.

McCain's problem is that he isn't a good debater, he just doesn't have the qualities to be one, and he isn't that inspiring to hear talk. He's just bland in many ways. I just don't see him inspiring anyone to vote for him. His base will vote for him, and Palin has helped pick up some elements, but overall I think the polls are showing that he just isn't the type of candidate to inspire people.

balladbird

10-09-2008, 04:20 AM

It's horrible to call them "town-hall" meetings, with the implication that the people can ask whatever they please. The questions were pre-chosen, and the moderator stops anyone who starts to ask anything other than their assigned one. To quote Jon Stewart "Town Hall meetings in America are like Town Hall meetings anywhere else... as long as the town you live in is Stepford."

With that aside, further debate between these candidates is pointless. Nothing short of a scandal, a faux pa, or a fatal hole in one of their platforms can really change the numbers. There has never been question that Obama was the better spokesman, and aside from performance I can't imagine what could have been provided in this debate to sway undecideds.

♠ Saint ♠

10-09-2008, 04:34 AM

LMAO

Bill Maher did a wink counter segment on his show. I missed it when it came out but it was on a rerun an hour ago. Real Time is just too funny sometimes. He says "Every man in America stood up a little straighter every time Sarah Palin winked." Too funny.

Spartan27

10-09-2008, 04:54 AM

LMAO
"Every man in America stood up a little straighter every time Sarah Palin winked.".

That actually came from a conservative columnist, who was writing in response to the debate. The whole thing read like he was sexually aroused. I think Olbermann picked up on this one. It was a bit disturbing in reality. It's like Palin represents the perfect women to some of these men, there aren't many of them out there that are this extreme, but there are a few.

ookami

10-09-2008, 08:09 PM

I'm sorry but looking at this from a whole John McCain is still very, very,very physically unfit for office. The amount of cancer hes had, I just hope no one with flu gets in the white house or he'll go critical. Leaving Sarah Palin incharge. Its getting on my nerves how some people not in this debate thread but in various media realeses saying Joe Biden couldn't handle it in the debate. This is because he cried a little after talking about his wife and kid who died in a car acident, frankly I don't want to see a guy who doesn't cry after something that painful and tragic happens.

balladbird

10-10-2008, 01:55 AM

Horrifying... completely and utterly horrifying...

http://www.slate.com/id/2201951/

McCain's supporters are quickly devolving into a good-ole-fashioned lynch mob. Hate filled rhetoric and ignorant ideals for all.

Shdo

10-10-2008, 02:25 AM

balladbird

10-10-2008, 03:04 AM

It's different because these statements are occuring in THE PRESENCE OF THE CANDIDATE. These people spout this garbage in the presence of McCain, who rather sheepishly accepts it. Obama is never directly presented with the idiotic stunts his supporters pull. (It's little short of fandom, and everyone knows that there's no brand of idiocy more palling than fandom)

The thing that frightens me the most is when McCain is saying things like "What kind of man is Obama?" And his supporters are shouting, loudly enough for it to be picked up. "Kill him! Kill him!"

For any political candidate of any party affilitation to say nothing when his supporters shout for the murder of his opponent is utterly disgusting.

and all information is biased. I concede that the media, for the most part, slants left, but Palin has recieved one HELL of a free ride on her family's situation, especially when compared to other teen pregnancy events that have been turned to an all out debacle by pundits.

gab00n

10-10-2008, 06:43 AM

how is it different than obama supporters who break into private emails or calling mccain and palin in all kinds of names (you can find several such comments here on this thread)

or how is it different than the left media assualt on palin and her family?

I can't believe you are actually condoning this sort of behavior. So because someone else did it then that makes it alright? Before you start reading your script title "outraged", I don't support any of the candidates but would prefer Obama win because McCain and Palin would be worse than Bush and Cheney. Anyone who supports team maverick is knowingly condemning America to death but I guess that is what fascists want.

Shdo

10-10-2008, 11:25 AM

not condoning i just saying both your sides suck big time. you call them destruction for america and fascists, they call you social holigans, you are both the same, you both degrading these elections dosnt matter if you do this for this guy or another.

for pages people here used this thread to say palin is a bad mother or that she should stay at home and take care of her children, the same people who vote yes for women to get fair amount of money, the same people who claim to be liberal. they talked about mccain like he is desease ridden senile fascist who wants to destroy this country while forgeting that he loved his country enough to fight for it for over 20 years as a soldier (i am not mentioning the POW thing) and to say he dosnt understand the pain of war?

the insults that were going here on both sides were ugly, and every single one of you who insulted those people (on BOTH sides) should be ashamed.

edit: btw, did you noticed that you somehow said i condone this behavior (even if i didnt) and then did the very same thing calling mccain supporters fascists? if you dont see how hepocrite this is you are in a bad situation.

Inevitable.Exit

10-10-2008, 05:00 PM

Eh I don't think anyone is doubting McCain's love for his country. But the most important issue to the American people currently is the Economy, and McCain's economic policies are the complete opposite of what is good for this country. And that isn't just me drinking the Liberal Kool-aid. This is what leading Economists, Conservative journalists, Liberal journalists etc are saying.

And the attacks are VERY different Shdo. Obama has no control over what others do. But when McCain and Palin are inciting a mob mentality at their rallies and not saying anything to people shouting "Kill him!", "Terrorist!", "Treason" and it is loud enough to hear and they aren't saying anything it is a point. Why do you think they are all of a sudden bringing up his middle name? They are trying to link him as some domestic terrorist Manchurian candidate (Because all Muslims are bad guys *Note the sarcasm here so people like Ookami or w/e don't freak out) who is going to disarm the military and let Osama Bin Laden and Vladmir Putin come take over America. Would you be ok if people started yelling "Nigger!" at their rallies as well?

Put two and two together, this is disgusting. Even more so than saying someone is a bad mother. Period.

Death =/= Bad motherhood.

Shdo

10-10-2008, 05:18 PM

some one said this or the other is worse? or an obama supporter who hacked into palin private Emails? the point is that both sides are shamefull.

and the middle name of obama was in the debate from the very start. but his connections to those extrimists should be questioned, not all of them are muslims btw. and there is the acorn thing, all those and obama silence raises questions on what he have to hide? i dont think its something as serious as a sleeper president but it does raise the question who are his supporters and how can obama accept aid from them when their stands are so different?

again it raises the point that he is a political chamilion, taking support wherever he find it, no matter from whom, and changes his POV way too often.

Inevitable.Exit

10-10-2008, 05:41 PM

So because a liberal extremist group forged voter registrations he is automatically guilty? He is supposed to speak out against it? Why? Because he is a liberal? That makes no sense. So because some random decided to hack Palin's emails it is Obama's fault? Both sides in GENERAL are shameful. But the shame on the Republican's side is coming directly from the candidates. The shame on the Democrats side is coming from a few extreme examples.

His connections to extremist groups? He has no connection. When Ayers was bombing people Obama was a child. I didn't know who Ayers was until reports, why would you expect Obama to know? All he knew was a professor at a University was helping him out.Ayers was never convicted and thus probably was able to live a semi-normal life. It's not like Obama agrees with that. And people who even insinuate that are disgusting. This man clearly loves his country and it is sad that people have had to resort to attacking others' Patriotism instead of focusing on issues. I mean a flag lapel pin? Who the fuck cares.

Who cares who his supporters are? McCain has some shady as fuck supporters but people don't seem to make a big deal. Shdo, you don't live in America and as such I don't think you understand the way things are going here. They are playing off of his middle name ONLY to connect him with Middle-Eastern terror. I don't think you understand the level of fear mongering that has gone on since 9/11.

Don't even get started on changing opinion. McCain has been the MASTER of this. Multiple times. And even more recently as he tries to grasp for the few undecided voters left.

Shdo

10-10-2008, 06:15 PM

it does matter who is supporters because if he promised them stuff and took money from those supporters it have alot to do with the elections.
and when people break into palin emails or forge elections like acorn FOR obama it have alot to do with him, not because he is liberal but because those acts are done so that he will win.

and again, you said that they started to talk about his middle name out of the blue but it went on even when hilary was still in the race, of course it was wrong back then but still its different from what you made it look like.

i see debates and confrences and it seems to me both sides have good points and as i always think that in politics the middle way is the best. but my problem here is basically the supporters behavior, if you go way back when someone slandered either candidates i tried to protect it, either with obama and 'under allah' comment or the attacks on palin family and frankly i spent more time protecting palin and mccain then obama, this is mostly because EVERYONE here had so much fun slandering them as if its okay because your side is naturally the good guys.
i am not trying to give my prespective on economics and stuff because my country is socialist and your not and i dont understand half of the actions your country takes. but i can make distinction of how the supporters behave in this thread and its not good.

ookami

10-10-2008, 09:01 PM

I'm mean grandad is 68 and has never been as ill as John McCain and he forgets how to put a car into reverse also taking in the fact he used to be a mechanic. How bad will McCain be his memory has a higher priority than my Grandads and what will happen in a debate even if hes on a winning streak at some point he will forget what he is going to say.

Shdo

10-10-2008, 09:07 PM

not all old people are the same, just because your grandad is only 68 and cant reverse dosnt mean other would. my father is 65, drive daily, work daily, go out to dance 3 times a week, 2 times a long walk every week and solve logic puzzles for fun.

just because you are old dosnt automaticly makes you weak or slow or dumb, training exercise and good genes might give some people a sharp mind throughout their lives.

ookami

10-10-2008, 09:12 PM

Sorry but when you get older you do deteriorate, you die when your older, you forget when your older and effecting some people you need help going to the toilet when your older. Get old you're organs get old and if they get old you're time shortens. Also the fact that hes had nearly five bouts with cancer will be rubing its balls in your face right about now, Shdo. Hes getting old and his body is giving up.

Escobar

10-10-2008, 09:56 PM

Ralph Nader/Ron Paul 08!

Shdo

10-10-2008, 10:10 PM

and some people are sharp enough that it barely touch them.
so again, your granddad situation dosnt mean that any other old guy would suffer the same situation, my country had plenty of old leaders and some of them would look at mccain and call him young, they did exellent job.

as for his cancer, its a skin cancer and didnt bothered him for the last 7 years, he released his medical files just a short time ago and he is in good health including no cancer.

unlike other kinds of cancer this one is pretty easy to spot (keep in mind this is the president so his health would be closly monitered) so dont try to make it look like he is full of cancer throughout his body, because its false.

ookami

10-10-2008, 10:19 PM

If hes had cancer that many times its more probable the next time he gets it , it will kill him because he will be older and his body will let its guard down basically. He won't live a whole term I can promise you that.

Shdo

10-10-2008, 10:34 PM

its a skin cancer, its easy to treat it and to find it. not to mention it didnt affected him for the last 7 years and didnt resurfaced ever since.

ookami

10-10-2008, 10:55 PM

Cancer comes back and its different everytime, also he could die of loads of thing mainly flu ¬¬ very, very common.

Shdo

10-11-2008, 12:08 AM

no its not, cancer is very specific unless it enters the blood stream, in mccain case in malenomia or something and it was removed along with the lymps around it to make sure.
he wont get another type of cancer out of the blue and believe me i know my mother had cancer, it got treated, the organ was removed and its impossiable for it to return there.

and flu? can you stop talking nonsense? pretty plz?

Rain

10-11-2008, 12:37 AM

McCains health does worry me to some extent, but it won't effect who I'd choose to vote

I mean, McCain might get cancer again, he might have a heart attack, or he might live perfectly fine for another 20 years

Obama could get struck by lightning and die. plus he isn't exactly a spring chicken...hes 47. He could have aheart attack as well, its not uncommon at all

if we vote based on health go for palin, cause women live longer and are 4 times less likely to be struck by lightning:cookie

we can't plan for these things. I don't think a person should choose who to vote for based on possibilities like this.

Shdo

10-11-2008, 12:45 AM

4 times less likely to hit by lightning? how come?

and also, if its about health why wont we put them in a deserted island, each have a knife and an harpoon...the one who survives after 3 days is the president, if they both alive their head explodes.

Rain

10-11-2008, 01:02 AM

Shdo- dunno, but its a statistic I've heard a few times, men are 4 times as likely to be hit by lightning

I think its just 4 times as many men get hit, and there are many mitigating factors, but it still sounds fun :wha

lol, yeah sounds like a plan

but seriously, I don't consider health a factor at all right now. I did in the past i think, but not so much now. I think its because of the stuff where barack obama supporters are going to vote for McCain to win ebcause they don't want barack to and have a higher chance to be assassinated (true story)

thinking like that bothers me

Shdo

10-11-2008, 01:09 AM

lol...i cant vote for him because it will kill him...this is so stupid.

its starting to go to the realm of 'i cant vote for obama cuz he is taller and more likely to be decapitated by fast moving disks of metal'

seriously, people should vote for their support of policies and the candidate crediability and nothing else.

cornflakes

10-11-2008, 03:33 AM

how is it different than obama supporters who break into private emails
If you mean the anon. who hacked into Palin's e-mail and posted the contents on 4chan, I doubt his motive extended further than the lulz.

not condoning i just saying both your sides suck big time.
I'm beginning to agree with you, actually. I guess I kinda thought that Obama and team would be above mudslinging and character assassination. How naive, eh. >.<

Shdo

10-11-2008, 03:37 AM

i understand the kid who broke into her email is the son of a democratic represetative so i guess politics did had a role in this.

cornflakes

10-11-2008, 03:43 AM

Oh... I didn't know that. Guess you were right then. The kid was convicted though wasn't he? (Yesterday?)

Shdo

10-11-2008, 08:10 AM

they should change the law that there should be only positive ads on the candidate and no ads that bash the other side.

GIN_ofTheFunk

10-11-2008, 08:19 AM

Shdo

10-11-2008, 08:26 AM

you dont care, we do. the leader of the world most powerful nation will have impact on everything and it does matter. after all we are all connected.

GIN_ofTheFunk

10-11-2008, 08:32 AM

Who says the american president is the leader of the world? European Union is the leading power in Europe. What country are you from?

Shdo

10-11-2008, 08:38 AM

not leading the world. MOST powerful country in the world. if there is one country that affect world politics the most its the US so i dont see how this election is anything less then all of our business, it will affect even Bulgaria, via economic recession or the global war on terror and so on.

GIN_ofTheFunk

10-11-2008, 08:45 AM

Hmmm, do you like conspiracy theories? Here's one- the Illuminaty are the real rulers (according to latest research) and they are really connected with the USA government, but also with the English Royal Family and Israel. These are the people who desice who rules- if they give power to the president, they can take it back.
Personally, I'm not sure what I believe in as soon as me and my family are ok. Here's another question- does anything depends on us? Do you really think this elections depends on people's vote? Nope? Well, me too...

Shdo

10-11-2008, 08:53 AM

so the illuminati wants to have obama or mccain?

GIN_ofTheFunk

10-11-2008, 09:07 AM

It's probably a facade- they want something even bigger.
As for the presidents, what I've read, they all belong to the Skulls-and-Bones society, they bow to one and the same masters- the Illuminaty 33-degree.
Look, I really don't want to argue with you- you remind me of me when I was younger. I used to care a lot about politics and the thing bulgarian people don't respect their own history. I always argued with people and of course- this didn't change a signle fact.
I see you are quite intelligent and you read a lot, but ... why are you doing this? You cannot change people or the politics. You are just tormenting yourself, you know- ignorance is bless, the moment you stop caring and start live your life you'll be happier.
Leave the politicians go to hell and don't join them.
Besides, even if you continue argue with people, they won't understand you anyways, cuz everyone thinks ' Who the hell is he? He thinks hes smarter? Huh!' and etc.
Politiciand don't care about people, so why we must care about them- our opinion doesn't matter- so f*ck the system, let's just live our own lives.

ookami

10-11-2008, 10:40 AM

America has the most nuclear weapons in the world thats why everyone is interested, to see another george bush in charge of somthing nuclear would be bad.

GIN_ofTheFunk

10-11-2008, 11:09 AM

America has the most nuclear weapons in the world thats why everyone is interested, to see another george bush in charge of somthing nuclear would be bad.
Actually it is Russia that has the most nuclear weapons in the world, but do you care about the Russian president?

Rain

10-11-2008, 12:50 PM

I can't explain something to myself- why are there non-americans who even care about the american presidental elections anyway? I mean, I'm a Bulgarian, why should i care about some other country's politics? It's their business, not mine anyways (=

this is true, but then again, what the US does has an impact on the rest of the world

I'm not saying you should care, but it's easy to understand why people from other countries care, because this election will impact them.

with the nuclear weapons thing, the US is the only country to use it on another. regardless of the circumstance, the on;ly country who has shown that they are willing to use them...is the US

BleachOD

10-11-2008, 01:47 PM

Shdo

10-11-2008, 02:58 PM

are you serious? if non existant people vote it means free votes for someone, when they duplicate a name of someone 8 time this 'person' would be able to vote several times giving an unfair advantage to one candidate.

Rain

10-11-2008, 03:05 PM

Um... can I say something? This voter fraud is bullshit. How can nonexistent people harm the election? For years they have been begging us to vote and now they want it to make it difficult. That is a bullshit issue. McCain is desperate and senile. "Hello My Fellow Prisoners"

Woah! POW flashback! (You sure you want to vote for him?)

2 reasons its a problem

if they don't exist but are voting, then it will sway the election, so the candidate the people vote for won't be accurate (although since the people don't elect the president its not such a huge deal)

but more than this, it shows that the person doing it is a liar, who will do whatever it takes to win, even if its illegal/immoral

voter fraud can be a very serious issue

♠ Saint ♠

10-11-2008, 03:51 PM

Ever seen the movie Black Sheep? Deals exactly with voter fraud.

And I hope that quote "My fellow prisoners!" is in reference to POWs. Because actual criminals cannot vote unless they have their rights reinstated.

CeriaHalcyon

10-11-2008, 09:14 PM

ookami

10-11-2008, 09:25 PM

I'd rather talk to a mad russian holding a red button with skull and cross bones on it than take an hour to explian hello to George Bush or John McCain. I'm being serious I prefer to talk to Russia than America. But it still stands America has a lot of nuclear weapons.

Shdo

10-11-2008, 09:30 PM

so you preffer madmans with nuclear weapons over mccain? what does that supposed to even mean?

also, russia have almost double the amount of nukes than america.

Rain

10-11-2008, 10:43 PM

I'm so sick of this election, as far as i can see it, Mccain needs to be elected for the good of this country. He's the only logical candidate, the other one is too dangerous.

Obama has no experience, and he doesnt disclose who funds his presidential bid, he could be supported by Osama for all we know... :zomg

sorry, but how is obama dangerous, or by such a margin over McCain. And how is he the only logical candidate:confused:

even if he doesn't disclose his funds so, that could mean anything

maybe the NRA supported him, but they don't wnat people to know, so they made him agree not to say it. How he gets his money is his personal business. Now if he gets in, and tries to pass all these random ass laws becuase he's in someones back pocket then we'd deal with it then

ookami

10-11-2008, 10:53 PM

America is so pissed off about george bush and what he did when he was in office, They will get exactly the same thing if they elect McCain and in my country americans are often labled as ignorant and retard, no offence I didn't make it but it makes sense if they vote for McCain. McCain is just george bush with plastic surgery Obama is strong hes already made up for his inexperiance and has Joe Biden to back him up. Where as McCain were all don't want to say it but he just wants to doink Palin ¬¬ .

Shdo

10-11-2008, 11:49 PM

CeriaHalcyon

10-12-2008, 12:45 AM

And considering the fact that the co-owner of Obama's house is a criminal in jail... that's very responsible :learn

Inevitable.Exit

10-12-2008, 01:27 AM

where he get his money is very important, for example the projector thing, if you use state funds to get favors so that people will fund you later its a big problem. and when you take money from people you do this with a price,if he accepts money from shady groups it raises the question of what he promised in return.The projector was for an astronomy building. It projects stars and planets etc on the ceiling. It was a huge upgrade from one they had since the 70s. I'm sure they both have taken money from shady characters. But again, people would rather go OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA. Instead of looking at McCain and his own shady past.

Who was one of THE largest supporters of deregulation on wall street? Ya. John McCain. How is the American Economy doing? Oh thats right. It is shit. We have lost what, nearly a million jobs? Trickle-down economics don't work. We will just get 4 more years of that with McCain.

He supports tax breaks for not only the wealthiest Americans, but also for companies who outsource American jobs.

His healthcare plan is a joke.

His foreign policy wouldn't be terrible if he wasn't supportive of '100 years in Iraq'.

I am an Obama supporter but both candidates aren't strong and sadly continue that trend with presidential candidates.

The economy is issue #1 and people are starting to realize with McCain it isn't going to work. That is why he is losing in all polls. I still think this election is a toss-up however. But I think Obama will pull a win. Regardless, whoever wins is going to have a hell of a time trying to turn things around.

Rain

10-12-2008, 01:35 AM

if he accepts money from shady groups it raises the question of what he promised in return.

very true, and of course it would be best to know

but if he doesn't tell us I don't think we should hold it against him

we don't know what he promised to do later on, or whether it will even be for the better of the economy/country/world

it's too much groundless speculation and since we can't make any sound judgments from it I'd think it be best to focus on the candidates stances

ceria- :lmao yea, but obama couldn't control what the guy was, it houldn't be seen as a black mark on his resume because another person is a criminal

Orihime Aizen

10-12-2008, 02:19 AM

Wow, 3 millions dollars for a projector. I guess people shouldn't be allowed to study the stars. Tell them to keep using their old outdated equipment because that money could have been a wheel on the Mars rover!

Seriously McCain is scary. Scary not only becuase the only considerations he will make to solving our engery crisis is more offshore drilling, which erodes our coast lines, but he considers Nuclear Engery a clean alternative energy source. I'm sorry, but any energy that produces a waste that has to be stored, contained, cannot be touched by humans for TENS of THOUSANDS of years, and it's release into the environment causes disease and death is not clean. Obama wants to invest money into viable solutions for our energy independence. More Oil is not going to solve our problem because sooner rather than later, this resource that took just oh...lets do a rough estimate...a BILLION years to create, is going to be GONE. He wants to enact plans that will help us become energy independence long after he is out of office, while McCain wants the quick and dirty solution. Why? Because this is his last pony ride. He's been trying to get elected for a long time, and I would have voted for him in 2000 if he ran as an independant. Same in 2004. But McCain is not the same man. He's old, and he's pandering to the Republican base, just so he can get elected, because this is his very last time. He can't have it both ways. He can't be a maverick and spout right wing ideals. He can't talk about change when he whistles the same tune as Bush.

But the scariest part of this is that, he looks so fragile. He looks one stroke away from handing Sarah Palin the presidency. McCain's choice in VP leaves a lot to be desired. It shows that his judgement is lacking, and then to tout Warren Buffet, as treasurery secretary, come on! McCain just said that to bait Obama, and hope on Buffet's name because he's been bailing out failing companies. McCain is seriously grasping at straws, trying to say anything that will get him elected, and I so hope that people seriously listen and see through his ruse. And sure I know there are elderly people out there who are living very active lives, and Warren Buffet is a great example. But it's time to see some of the younger generation take control of the wheel. Warren is already training his successor, he isn't planning on working much longer.

Any politcal election is really a lesser of two evils. Everyone has their vices, secrets, skeletons, and character flaws. But if you really want to make an informed decision, you have to look past all of that and actually listen to what the candidate says they are going to do. Then you have to be ready to believe that they are going to stand behind what they say. Obama hasn't done anything that has convinced me that he wont stand behind what he says. McCain has by backpeddling on years of standing up to the Republican juggernaut just to gain their trust and get the nomination.

balladbird

10-12-2008, 02:59 AM

where he get his money is very important, for example the projector thing, if you use state funds to get favors so that people will fund you later its a big problem. and when you take money from people you do this with a price,if he accepts money from shady groups it raises the question of what he promised in return.

Ye~s, because good ole Saint McCain has SURELY never accepted money from ANY shady groups in the past.

You're either cherry picking your faults, holding one candidate accountable for something both are guilty of, or you're ignorant of the facts. McCain has over 100 Lobbyists working with him in Washington, many of whom hold platforms that directly contradict his spoken stances. He's as corrups as anyone else who has the funding to run for president must be, and Obama is no better, but absolutely and surely no worse than him in that regard.

The Republican party is starting to amuse me. Seeing that none of the debates and even their *gasp* female VP failed to nullify Obama's lead, they've very openly made their party's platform "Vote for McCain! Because our opponent is a muslim terrorist with a funny name! He's different!"

and the "my fellow prisoners" crack was probably a ploy, to remind voters why they should support him in the first place... Finally, a republican candidate whose rich parents didn't keep him out of a war.

Shdo

10-12-2008, 06:57 AM

and if there were more mccain supporters here i would have asked them the same questions but most people seems to support obama and turn their sight away from his shady businesses and questionable sources.

when someone is giving millions of dollars from federal reserves to places that later fund his campaign it is a serious business.

my problem with obama is his political chameleon behavior.

CeriaHalcyon

10-12-2008, 12:49 PM

Rain

10-12-2008, 01:05 PM

[B]Look, it's plain and simple, at the end of the day as an american, which person would you rather have as president? A former prisoner of war/ member of the armed forces or a smooth talking guy whose never held down a single term in any elected position?

I'd rather have a calm man who believes we need to focus inward and bring america back to what it used to be instead of a self proclaimed maverick (who thinks exactly the same as our current pres) who places more emphasis outside of the country than inward

:lmao the name part is true...which is so depressing

he couldn't control his name....we shouldn't base our judgments on his name

kiera2

10-12-2008, 01:41 PM

and as one of my local radio hosts mentioned, when people see Barack Hussein Obama on that election sheet, how many of his supporters are gonna go :um no thanks... :learn
Only the utterly moronic ones.

Shdo

10-12-2008, 02:00 PM

i understand ceria first sagment but the second one is complete nonsense, the name mean nothing, only something his father chose for him. the name hussain is very common in the middle east and parts of kenya, even to christians. madrasa mean school in arabic so no matter what school he went to it would be called madrasa. its only names, they mean nothing.

concern yourself with actual problems and not baseless paranoia or you will only hurt your own case.

kiera2

10-12-2008, 02:15 PM

the name mean nothing
*should mean nothing.

Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of idiotic, uninformed people out there. I can't believe this woman actually went up to McCain and said she can't trust Obama because "he's an Arab" - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7665238.stm

Shdo

10-12-2008, 02:37 PM

http://www.africanorphans.com/images/maps/africa_map.gif
as you can see kenya isnt close to the middle east ,europe is closer most of hte time.

kenya demographics shows that only 1% are arab(obama is of luo etnicity), and the country is mostly christian (78% and 12 % is pegan believes, only 10%) his first school seems to be catholic school btw.

EDIT: not directed at you, kiera.

kiera2

10-12-2008, 03:24 PM

Uhh... yes? That's the point I was making?

Rain

10-12-2008, 03:35 PM

*should mean nothing.

Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of idiotic, uninformed people out there. I can't believe this woman actually went up to McCain and said she can't trust Obama because "he's an Arab" - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7665238.stm

there was also a clip that was on the daily show, where this woman said she wasn't voting for obama because she has had enough of hussein

:facepalm

I just can't see how people really think a person is a bad choice based on a name they can't control, it doesn't mean hes a terrorist or anything :-_-

Shdo

10-12-2008, 03:49 PM

Rain

10-12-2008, 03:53 PM

but i must say that if someone find himself with abbysial fear of obama and dont want to vote for him because of his name its okay in general, it shouldnt be like that but if it is no matter how open minded they try to be then there is nothing that can be done. it dosnt make you a stupid or bad person or fascist (even if some people might say that, and then attack palin for being a woman or mccain for being old but hypocrits aside) but for god sake, people should never take the laws to their own hands and decide to get rid of the ELECTED representitive, as long as he was chosen fairly by law (coughbushcough).

ok, I can understand this to some extent

but what angers me is that people dislike obama based on his name, then vote for McCain

that is almost like a pet peeve of mine

if you dislike both sides, don't vote for the lesser of two evils, don't vote, don't support either

if you dislike obama based on the name, don't vote for McCain

but that might just be me

Shdo

10-12-2008, 04:00 PM

well, if you dont find any common ground with mccain and dont like mccain and still vote for him its just petty resistance isnt it? but if you are centralist and do find some of mccain points to be worthwhile and dont trust obama for some reason (hopefully its not race, but the world isnt perfect and some people have their reasons) then go for mccain.

CeriaHalcyon

10-12-2008, 04:04 PM

I don't understand why so many people dislike our current president, so he's a little slow, it's no reason to make him the scapegoat of every little problem that we ourselves are just as much to blame for.

IF McCain is just like bush, then it's all the more reason to vote for him, but we've lost sight of that, and we're gonna let someone worse than clinton into office, and we'll pay the price for it.

Rain

10-12-2008, 04:04 PM

I suppose so yeah, but still

when i think of who i'd want to vote for, I don't (or try not to) directly compare the candidates

I think of their stances of whats important to me. If both only agree with me on 50% of the issues but one is just slightly above the other, I wouldn't vote for either

one may be closer to what i want, but neither speak to me

although this is just a personal belief and not necesarily the best way to do things

I don't understand why so many people dislike our current president, so he's a little slow, it's no reason to make him the scapegoat of every little problem that we ourselves are just as much to blame for.

IF McCain is just like bush, then it's all the more reason to vote for him, but we've lost sight of that, and we're gonna let someone worse than clinton into office, and we'll pay the price for it.

Clinton was 1000 tims better than Clinton, Bush gave us a 10 trillion dollar debt, Clinton gave us a surplus

No, Bush isn't responsible for every little problem our country has, but he has made it worse than it was, and had we not had to focus on the problems he caused, it might have been easier to see this economic crisis coming sooner, instead of being almost blindsided by it

Shdo

10-12-2008, 04:12 PM

oh i like bush, he is so cute when he slipup...too bad so many people died for his mistakes.

Iraq was a mistake and i doubt that he didnt knew that he is doing a mistake all along. for months he went on convincing the world that there should be invasion and that iraq have WMD's and i was sure that they did (because of what they did to iran and the kurds, they did had WMD at some point) but the fact is that it was never found and only caused instability in my region of the world.

that invasion had caused only problems and thousands died on the american side and hundred of thousands on the iraqi side, this is a very good reason to hate him.

as for the economy, i hear from one side that he was horriable and with diffrent data he was exellent, each side ignore the data that harms its stand.

he wasnt really bad as much as he was stupid.

but i mostly hold him accountable for iraq and that is the greatest blunder he had in my eyes, beside of that he did some exellent things (disarming libya of her WMD in peaceful manners, semi succesfully disarming NK until recently) so i agree he shouldnt be considered the worst there is or the devil people made of him but he did had a GREAT share of blunders.

CeriaHalcyon

10-12-2008, 04:21 PM

Iraq wasnt a mistake, Saddam had to be taken care of and it was our fault for not doing it the first time. even if he didnt have weapons of mass destruction, what about all the kurds he killed? are they to be forgotten?

And i think the future's gonna be a scary one, whomever is at the helm of this country, we're sick of war as it is, and something's gonna have to be done about all the christians being killed in africa. Even though our news media conviently doesnt like to say anything about it...

Shdo

10-12-2008, 04:27 PM

in the greater scheme of things it was a massive mistake, while iraq wasnt western it wasnt the piece of crap it is today. if the kurds are the reason you could have freed them alone and have them control the north on their own...actually that what actually happend for years.

also if you want to take out every leader who is considered evil dont you find it weird that at the same time america protected saudi arabia who by many aspects is far worse then sadam iraq? sadam wasnt a saint but taking him down was a massive mistake that you might not be aware of but the entire region feel it, the increase of power by iran, the increase in fundamantalism and violance.

but at the same time i say whats done is done, the fact is that america invaded iraq and leaving now because its hard would be the words possiable solution. leave by all means but AFTER you reached your goals, which is to give iraq the minimum needed to not break apart.

also, sadam didnt had connections to al qaeda.

EDIT: BTW here is the intresting conflict i have with mccain, i dont agree that america shouldve entered iraq in the first place even if they knew there were no WMD, but i do agree that america should leave when the job is done, not when its convinient. as hard as it is for american you can be sure its harder for the iraqi.

but even if i find it disturbing he would go into iraq anyway i also aware that you are already there so that problem is irrelevent and while obama want to bailout mccain stays.

cornflakes

10-13-2008, 10:12 AM

if you dislike both sides, don't vote for the lesser of two evils, don't vote, don't support either
I must disagree with this... if you don't vote, you don't get to complain about the government for the next four years, because you did not exercise your right duty to vote.

Iraq wasnt a mistake, Saddam had to be taken care of and it was our fault for not doing it the first time. even if he didnt have weapons of mass destruction, what about all the kurds he killed? are they to be forgotten?
I notice that no one is drawing up plans to invade Myanmar or Sudan for their despotic juntas, or Russia for their brutal suppression of Chechnya.

something's gonna have to be done about all the christians being killed in africa. Even though our news media conviently doesnt like to say anything about it...
Further evidence that there is a conspiracy of liberals, atheists, homosexuals and Muslims to control the media and rule the world by proxy.

Oh wai-

balladbird

10-13-2008, 11:51 AM

Look, it's plain and simple, at the end of the day as an american, which person would you rather have as president? A former prisoner of war/ member of the armed forces or a smooth talking guy whose never held down a single term in any elected position?

The choice is clear, it's McCain.

and as one of my local radio hosts mentioned, when people see Barack Hussein Obama on that election sheet, how many of his supporters are gonna go :um no thanks... :learn

Nothing about a presidential election is simple, and as to the "clear" choice, I must respectfully disagree.

Regarding your second point, umm.... his middle name has been known for as long as he's been a serious contender for the office, I can't imagine more than 1% of his support would be genuinely unaware of his middle name until they saw it written on the ballot.

Iraq wasnt a mistake, Saddam had to be taken care of and it was our fault for not doing it the first time. even if he didnt have weapons of mass destruction, what about all the kurds he killed? are they to be forgotten?

The first and most prominent reason one has for despising this war (aside from the fact that it was CLEARLY a grudge action by Bushie jr) is the fact that he lied, proported non-existant evidence, and cajoled the public into it on false pretenses. Once these pretenses were lifted, he just bait-n-switched and pretended that liberty and freedome were the reasons behind it. Everything about Iraq is a farce.

As to the kurds he killed, naturally that was atrocious, but it's an all-too-common scene all over the world. Aside from which, do you honestly think that our idiotic and pointless war has STOPPED it? Hell no. We've only added fuel to the fire, and destroyed any semblance of stability that country ever had to claim.

I notice that no one is drawing up plans to invade Myanmar or Sudan for their despotic juntas, or Russia for their brutal suppression of Chechnya.

Give it time, with McCain as our president we can look forward to all KINDS of costly, unnecessary wars. ^_^ Without the constant threat of "terror" there is no fear. That's bad for the Republican party, as without fear to control the ignorant, they lose a HUGE portion of their support.

*edit* deleted about 60 percent of my post, as my temper was flared, and I dislike speaking out of anger. Besides, Cornflake totally stole what I wanted to say. My appologies if anyone read what I deleted.

Rain

10-13-2008, 02:14 PM

I must disagree with this... if you don't vote, you don't get to complain about the government for the next four years, because you did not exercise your right duty to vote.

I disagree with this

I don't think that just because I don't vote means I can't complain about who gets elected

although, if I were to say "that person should never have been elected, why didn't the other guy win" thats different

but I'll choose to not vote for who I don't think is right...like a small protest in a sense

Shdo

10-13-2008, 03:09 PM

actually your war did stop the kurds from being killed, the north of iraq is surprisignly quiet, with less then 200 coalition members patroling and not a single dead soldier. and btw you do have a responsiability there because you already caused them to be slaughtered in the past with fake promises.

overall, the kurdish north is one of the few rays of light in the iraqi conflict.
the kurds had autonomy since the end of the first gulf war, mustering enough power in their mountains to stop the iraqi army from controling them, thanks to the coalition no flying zones in the north of iraq they were able to inflict serious demage on iraqi troops if they tried to fight them on land.
they actually created a democracy before sadam fell and had intresting relationships with the west, for example they welcomed america and didnt stabbed america in the back the moment she came to the north. they actually did had relationship with israel who supported their struggle for decades.

a very intresting people btw.

Inevitable.Exit

10-13-2008, 05:28 PM

Shdo

10-13-2008, 06:57 PM

those kurds you are talking about are actually from turkey, they seek asylum in northern iraq but are not actually them, so its like saying that americans are bad because of american minority in some country disbehave or that jordan is bad because the palestinian israeli conflict. its not that easy in the middle east and the kurds are america friends as far as the coalition forces are concerned.

you are talking about the PKK whose tactics are wrong but aspirations are pretty okay in my eyes since i support kurdish indepandance (though i want to see it in northern iraq before they will go into NEGOTIOTIONS with turkey iran and syria for kurdish areas)

ookami

10-13-2008, 09:13 PM

Shdo

10-13-2008, 09:22 PM

seriously...:facepalm

ookami

10-13-2008, 09:26 PM

All he really wants is for the muslim people to be left alone I don't know why anyone would argue with it , but it the means he goes to to achieve his goals that are bad.

Shdo

10-13-2008, 09:43 PM

he started his jihad when america defended saudi arabia from iraqi invasion, because infidals touched saudi soil, this isnt to defend this is religious bigotry plain and simple, and for that bigotry he killled thousands of people many of them are muslims as well.

all this when the only reason he is alive is because america supplied him with weapons when he was in afganistan against the soviets. ungreatful, fantic asshole that what he is, he brought the invasions to iraq and afganistan and is not the result of them, he caused more pain to muslims then elevated it.

so what did he defended against? the crusades?! something that happend centuries ago by europians and not americans? bullshit, he dont try to defend anything, he wants to enforce his dark ways on every single muslim out there, if they like it or not and then move on to the rest of us. if he wanted to defend the saudi land he would have joined forces with the coalition and help beat back the iraqi but he didnt.
if he wanted to protect the palestinians he would have come to us and face us and not america, he is nothing but a disgrace who adhere violance and death for the sake of ignorance and redicalism.

Rain

10-13-2008, 10:13 PM

I never ever thought of him like that, but to each their own

All he really wants is for the muslim people to be left alone I don't know why anyone would argue with it , but it the means he goes to to achieve his goals that are bad.

well, I completely disgaree with this

if he truely just wnated to be left alone then why create some kind of terrorist plot against the country most likely to intervene before hand and retaliate afterwards

I don't think its really the US's place to impose their laws in other countries, but that doesn't make the opposing leaders good

perhaps thats why I prefer Obama's stance on the war

he will try to withdraw, to end the war

♠ Saint ♠

10-13-2008, 10:21 PM

I don't see whats wrong with Obama being friends with someone who was a domestic terrorist , it atleast says he has a strong opinion of government, and besides I have a criminal record , hear that, that silence yeah no one cares and no one should care about this guy. Anyone who says Osama Bin Ladin is evil or wrong is obviously an Idiot or just stuck up the man is freedom fighter, hes fighting for his people, he takes the task to defend the muslim religion because of americas invasion. I would swear a jihad if someone invaded my country try to steal my thunder.

Just curious, but do you live in America? If so, go live with Osama and defend him to us then. But really, where are you from so I can see this from your point of view.

If you don't, then you obviously don't understand American culture. Osama bin Laden masterminded or funded or at least had a hand in crashing 4 airplanes that killed well over 2,000 CIVILIANS. Read that, civilians, as in, non military personnel. The Stars and Stripes went after him with their MILITARY as in, people who can really fuck your shit up. (Mods, pardon the French but this sort of thing gets my dander up. It's a figure of speech but If you want me to ease up, I will). When you KILL our CIVILIANS, we get really pissed off and we will find the punk responsible.

That is not to say that we have not killed any civilians at all. Shit happens and well, not all of it intentional.

Good and evil are relative and highy dependant on your morals. Killing innocent people in our culture is defined as being evil and the way that Osama pulled the strings to do it was just callous. Therefore, according to our moral code, yes, the punk is evil and wrong by our standards.

I would like to note too that Osama is a radical Muslim and does not speak on behalf of all Muslims. There are some Muslim groups in the US who expressed outrage at the September 11th attacks. That being said, don't try to bring that noise about Osama being a freedom fighter. He's just another cult leader trying to leave his mark on the world and I darsay he's succeeded.

Shdo

10-13-2008, 11:02 PM

a freedom fighter is someone who actually fight for the freedom of his people, so fight the military or fight at the actual place, and further more, a freedom fighter who bring tyranny? darkness to where its not needed?

sending the planes on WTC wasnt colleteral damage, it wasnt something that happend in a feat of rage, it was PLANNED, he planned for years how to kill as many civilians as he could, he could've stopped and say, hey...we wont kill civilians for the sake of killing civilians, we will kill army personal instead.

the attack on the pentagon i can understand (just dont whine when you will get attacked later on) the planned attack on the white house i can also understand (killing the leader) but smashing into the world trade center? when you kill for the sake of killing you are terrorist. period.

ookami

10-14-2008, 10:42 PM

I'm from England, just look at the basics what Binladen has done, hes defending I have no problems if you disagree but you have to look at the most basic fretwork to understand this. You have look at the previous conflicts dating back hundreds of years.

I have a high opinion of Obama hes they best choice, if anyone votes for john McCain but are angry at George.W. Bushes time as president then there is racism involved, there has to be. I think that if america and britain pull out of Iraq things will calm down everywhere looking at previous terrorist videos. The only problem is Obamas statistics are not very realistic because rehabilitaion of Iraq started three years ago, his idea is to get America out of there in a year but Rehabilitation of a whole country as you can imagine takes more time than three years.
Thing is he atleast is going to try it could be havoc or chaos but it will work.
Now looking at John McCains great ideas for the future, he wants more troops in Iraq this will only agrovate the taliban more you must agree with that and America at the moment also Britain aren't coping with the number of the taliban and thats with the help of the Iraq army.

Looking at the whole crux of things if you introduced say Russia to the Iraq war this war would become more than winable and this will cut about two years of Rehabilitation, but Russia probablys would never do that and America has too much pride , however if this happened America Russia and Britain would gain an even stronger alliance, and thats about it i think I should post more in the "war in Iraq thread".

Shdo

10-14-2008, 10:57 PM

what pass invasions? the americans defended muslims lands against iraq when they were asked to by the muslims! the attacks on afganistan and iraq happend AFTER he attacked america so what invasions are you talking about? the CRUSADES (and you did say that earlier) those happend centuries ago before america was even found!

second point, there are no taliban in iraq.

3rd point, if you enter russia into this the violence would go down since they will just pummel cities into the ground like in chechnya(muslim country btw).

if you want to debate you need to have at least some basic info about the timeline and actual events before you post, otherwish its just debate spam (just like you cant post in abortion thread if you think that babies comes from the other side of the rainbow and slide down to be carried by magical unicorns).

ookami

10-14-2008, 11:11 PM

Ok I will if you quit the one liners. Basically Iraq and Afganistan are part of the same war, and yeah Russia would pummel Cities so what America and britain will do the same exept it will take more time, and if you fight fire with better fire the better fire wins they would be a great help fighting Taliban and insurgents ect. basically get rid of the extreamists and Taliban and fix the Economy. this war won't be won when you have to suspect everyone any other country would be a great deal of help but Russia and America really need to get on more.

Shdo

10-14-2008, 11:25 PM

introducing a group that will kill an entire town wont help at all, because things are improving in iraq right now, the people are tired of the terrorists (yes terrorists) who came to 'save' them and instead killed over a hundred thousands iraqis in bombings. the iraq people themselves and not only the the iraqi army are rising against the terrorists, not giving them shelter as they used to.

Russia pummeling cities would only strengthen the terrorists because of the amount of death they will bring(the chechnian capital is described by the UN as the worst bombed city since WW2 ended).

also, iraq and afganistan dont even have a shared border, the taliban are sunni fundemantalist regime that was hated by both shiite iran and secular iraq (and you need to go through shiite iran to get to iraq) they wont have a way to get to iraq through afganistan, iran and across the border, especially when they are concentrating in fighting from the afgan pakistani border against Nato and afganistan.

ookami

10-14-2008, 11:33 PM

Your not seeing it my way Russia has the power to take down the oposition I don't litrally mean blowing up cities we have seen the efficiency of a Russian invasion of Georgia that you can't argue with and yeah Georgia is pretty small but i'd say its bigger than hellmands province wouldn't you?

Shdo

10-14-2008, 11:45 PM

georgia is a standing army, its easy to destroy a standing army. its insurgents who are fighting against in iraq, its a completly different enemy (america beat the iraqi army who was several times stronger than the georgian army in a few weeks and russia also still fights in chechnya against insurgents) they dont have basses or tanks, they fight with small weapons and hide among the population, you can eitehr turn the population against them or kill the population along with the insurgents. a big army wont help here as much as friendship with the local would.

the problem with obama is that he wants to leave iraq just like this, but it will cause a domino effect if not done properly, and even with obama plan to get free of middle eastern oil it will happen around 2030 if i remember his words...well, till then you want the middle east to remain stable and a domino effect would be a disaster, you dont want to replace those nice dictatorships who likes your money with theological countries who want you to die.

ookami

10-14-2008, 11:53 PM

I still think that if given the chance Russia was involved in this war Rehabilitation would be quick and Obamas pulling out time would be easier on everyone. Can we get back to the election there two seperate debates for Binladen and The Iraq war if you want to go more in depth for now stick to the policies. We've gone way off topic. I think its important that the hunt for BinLaden is stopped it costs way too much and all parties should pull out of Iraq and Afganistan as soon as Rehabilitation is finished. The only person with a realistic Idea of doing this is Obama.

Shdo

10-15-2008, 12:21 AM

the hunt for binladen wont stop until he is dead, i wouldnt respect the americans if they had just rolled over and allowed him to go (assuming he is alive) after what he did to them. all parties want to leave iraq that for sure, the question is when?

when its conviniant or when its actually done? the first one is surrender, make no mistakes about it and the middle east dont forgive surrenders.

♠ Saint ♠

10-15-2008, 06:01 AM

I'm from England, just look at the basics what Binladen has done, hes defending I have no problems if you disagree but you have to look at the most basic fretwork to understand this. You have look at the previous conflicts dating back hundreds of years.

Ah yes, he's defending because all those people in the World Trade Center were just oppressing his way of life. Give me a break. Look at the basic framework all you want but the truth is in the details. It takes one little detail to swing an entire scenario around. He masterminded a plan to kill our civilians and pulled it off. This is not humble defense. This is terrorism and being no better than Pol Pot or Hitler.

I have a high opinion of Obama hes they best choice, if anyone votes for john McCain but are angry at George.W. Bushes time as president then there is racism involved, there has to be. I think that if america and britain pull out of Iraq things will calm down everywhere looking at previous terrorist videos. The only problem is Obamas statistics are not very realistic because rehabilitaion of Iraq started three years ago, his idea is to get America out of there in a year but Rehabilitation of a whole country as you can imagine takes more time than three years.
Thing is he atleast is going to try it could be havoc or chaos but it will work.

So... someone who likes McCain but hates Bush is racist? Explain your logic because I see no merit in that statement.

Now looking at John McCains great ideas for the future, he wants more troops in Iraq this will only agrovate the taliban more you must agree with that and America at the moment also Britain aren't coping with the number of the taliban and thats with the help of the Iraq army.

Looking at the whole crux of things if you introduced say Russia to the Iraq war this war would become more than winable and this will cut about two years of Rehabilitation, but Russia probablys would never do that and America has too much pride , however if this happened America Russia and Britain would gain an even stronger alliance, and thats about it i think I should post more in the "war in Iraq thread".

As Shdo said, there is no taliban in Iraq.

Second, last thing we need is to drag another country into this. Putin isn't stupid so there is no way in hell he'd just jump in with nothing to gain just to make the war "winnable".

Third, take a moment to actually study basic warfare like I have. You cannot simply use superior firepower everytime. That is just foolish. The easiest enemy to fight is the one that shows himself to you. They know that and we know that. The hardest enemy to fight is one that makes you mistrust your own shadow. One that hides in the population and literally, can be anyone. You are chasing shadows at that point. So what do you, as a standing army do? You make nice with the local population. These people are political, yes, but they want bread on their table too and they will side with whomever gives them that bread. That is one of the reasons that the US Army has vetranarians (fuck, I'm drunk and can't spell it) so that they can go to villages, assess what they need, and if an animal is sick, they send the vets to immunize and nurse the animal back to health. You save a villages' sheep herds and guess what? They are less likely to harbor insurgents. Well, that is the thought anyways.

We did the same thing in Vietnam with some success but there are a hundred reasons why Vietnam went wrong that I won't even delve into here.

Bottomline is that we need a President who won;t prolong this shit any more than we have to. The next President needs to lay down the law and say "Hey, we are going to be leaving. The new Iraqi government needs to stand up on it's own two feet and start making it's own solutions." We cannot pin down a definite timeline, like Biden said, but this is what we need to do. Wasting time sending more troops to pound the desert flat is ridiculous.

Babbo

10-15-2008, 10:19 PM

Bottomline is that we need a President who won;t prolong this shit any more than we have to. The next President needs to lay down the law and say "Hey, we are going to be leaving. The new Iraqi government needs to stand up on it's own two feet and start making it's own solutions." We cannot pin down a definite timeline, like Biden said, but this is what we need to do. Wasting time sending more troops to pound the desert flat is ridiculous.

Isn't the current president already doing that o,o? Babbo doesn't like him anymore than the next guy, but there have been talks of being out by 2011 in the news. If those kind of plans get anywhere it'll make a McCain adminstration look silly if they go with their "stay the course" ideal; Obama on the other hand will probably go through things; though even he plans to pound Afghanistan flat with troops <.<

Btw. Anyone else here planning to get drunk on election night?

Inevitable.Exit

10-15-2008, 11:19 PM

Isn't the current president already doing that o,o? Babbo doesn't like him anymore than the next guy, but there have been talks of being out by 2011 in the news. If those kind of plans get anywhere it'll make a McCain adminstration look silly if they go with their "stay the course" ideal; Obama on the other hand will probably go through things; though even he plans to pound Afghanistan flat with troops <.<

Btw. Anyone else here planning to get drunk on election night?I actually plan on going to sleep so I can wake up in the morning and see if my next 4 years will suck and be the same/worst than the last 8 or my next 4 years will be something new.

Spartan27

10-15-2008, 11:28 PM

Btw. Anyone else here planning to get drunk on election night?

depends upon what happens during the night, and whether I have to go to work the next morning. Well actually I probably will as long I don't have to go to work the next day, it will be either in celebration or in despair.

Rain

10-16-2008, 01:47 AM

I'm watching the debate

maybe im a bit biased, but McCain is saying stuff like not attacking the character of the candidates...then he like rips into Obama without saying why he is a better option...good times :-_-

bradc

10-16-2008, 12:51 PM

Only got the glimpse of it and brief news about the debate. Same ol' and same ol' debate since the beginning of their compagnes. What's new? All I got Obama should have join Presidetal Election 4 years ago and McCain claims he's not the next Bush Jr, when he's still 100% behind Bush Jr.

Too bad they never allow Ron Paul into the election. :hm

Feels like the circus watching clowns, clowning around...

Inevitable.Exit

10-16-2008, 01:52 PM

If this video doesn't make you sick, I don't know what will

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0

It's sad that people are still like that.

If you can't watch the video, I will summarize "If he wins Blacks will take over", "The whole Muslim thing", "He is related to a known terrorist", "I think he and his wife may be anti-white.", "He's not a Christian! This is a Christian Nation" (lolseparationofchurchandstate), "When you've got a nigruh (nigger) running for president he ain't a first stringer, he's a second stringer", "I think he is a wolf in sheeps clothing", "He must support terrorists.", "I don't like the fact that he thinks us white people are trash".

Sad sad.

There was also a video of someone opening up a rally for McCain and saying a 'prayer' that said something along the lines of 'People all around the world, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists are all praying for Hussein Obama to win, and Lord I hope that you don't allow that to happen because then they will think their God is mightier than you.'

Makes me ashamed to be an American at times.

bradc

10-16-2008, 02:15 PM

Racism is blind. Obama is still in the lead though... :thumbs

According to the news anyway. Sadly, that's how I see America too because that's how Presidents and Prime Ministers lead their country; if that's how they want to continue to run it. And even though I have been to New York and across the border to Buffalo before; I have never been to anywhere else in the U.S. like I wanted to. There's all types of people out there :)

Argh... The government over here in Hong Kong is not much different. He's been given books to smarten him up about the global economical view of the world. :facepalm

ookami

10-16-2008, 04:19 PM

If Obama doesn't win America is going to keep falling down the slippery soap with the same policies. At least if You like George. W. Bush you can elect him again through John McCain however if you did that I'd have to call psyciatrist for you :D

Babbo

10-16-2008, 05:02 PM

depends upon what happens during the night, and whether I have to go to work the next morning. Well actually I probably will as long I don't have to go to work the next day, it will be either in celebration or in despair.
Pretty much how babbo is looking at it <.<

I'm watching the debate

maybe im a bit biased, but McCain is saying stuff like not attacking the character of the candidates...then he like rips into Obama without saying why he is a better option...good times :-_-

Ya. The whole Bill Ayers thing was cringe worthy. If the media (not to mention history) is saying that attacks like that only hurt a candidates campaign then you don't do it. People are going to look at it with the same attitude <.<

CeriaHalcyon

10-16-2008, 05:13 PM

I can't help but somewhat agree with the wolf in sheeps clothing remarks, in regards to Obama.

1. he claims to be a christian but was sworn into office with his hand on the Koran and not the bible
2. he refuses to hold his hand to his heart when the pledge of allegiance is playing
3. he refuses to disclose who funds his presidency bid,
4. When he was a college student, he made several trips around the world... what normal college student, (of standard background) can afford to jet set to various places in the world?

That's just part of the problem with obama, he's inexperienced, he hasnt shown us a clear picture of his faith background, and in regards to his voting background: out of all the votes' he's participated in, nearly all of them have been to increase taxes.

His plan involving Joe the plumber will hurt small businesses, of which i am employed by, and are we supposed to just absorb the costs of that increase? no, jobs will be lost because of it and the cost for our services will have to increase.

To be honest, Obama scares me more than Kerry, and i never thought i'd be able to say that, even with Kerry's flip flopping and terrorist supporting bad mouthed wife.

I pray that we americans will have the ability to see the wolf in sheeps clothing, and see McCain elected as president, it's the only choice.

Rain

10-16-2008, 05:25 PM

Babbo- exactly

ceria- better a wolf in sheeps clothing than a wolf :cookie

what suprises me is how McCain kept saying Obama's plan with hurt "Joe" when obama's plan would only help him

Obama's plan helps small businesses..they get health care without really having to pay, as opposed to McCain who is giving everyone 5000 dollars to pay for it, when that won't even fully cover people

while watching the debate i got the feeling that McCain pretty much ignored whatever Obama actually said and heard what he wanted

ookami

10-16-2008, 05:34 PM

Obama is not a muslim amaterasu how many times does it have to be said, if you look at the koran and you can understand its meaning your a man or women of equality and diversity that is what America needs and its what Americans should vote for.

Shdo

10-16-2008, 05:35 PM

1st point- do you have any proof that he did that? photos? anything beyond rumors?

3rd point- legitimate problem with him.

4th point- what are you implying? that he was sent to secret cobra's bases around the world? maybe he won schoolarships (he was pretty good student as it seems) and that freed him some money for trips.

the taxes and small buisnesses is serious issue, sure he wants to tax the mega corps and by saying that he get the guy on the street vote but by taxing small buissnesses more he will cause them to be less succesful and people will lose jobs on the long run.

this is a valid and fair problem with obama, and while i dont give a damn about mega corps who will survive no matter what and can take the taxes without firing workers the same isnt true to small buisnesses.

as for his foreign policies, he is also seems to me like a dangerous man, but if the situation in iraq will continue to improve it wont matter who you will elect since you will be out of there in a year or two.

mccain is completly right on the energy field, yes to nuclear and yes to off shore drilling, if you want to get depandant of middle eastern oil you MUST increase production UNTIL clean energy sources arrives. with obama way you will have many more years of sucking to the middle east oil dictatorships which is a shame to america and the western world as a whole.

ookami

10-16-2008, 06:22 PM

Obama is bringing in more enviromental voters arcording to the last statement, now Shdo I want you to find out how maney American soldiers are at war, then I want you to find an average amount of family members and add up them votes im mean people. oh yeah and for McCain find out how maney soldeirs want to be risking there ass in gulf and how maney of their families want them to. i'm asking you because you know your good with the facts:)

Babbo

10-16-2008, 06:37 PM

Shdo

10-16-2008, 06:42 PM

well, i dont know, so i dont claim they support the war. now do the same, if you dont know something and dont have data to back it up, dont talk about it as if you do have data.

but from most polls it shows that most americans want to pull out, but this is an emotional response, regardless of how wrong that war is its still not a reason to leave iraq only to have it plunge to civil war, they are not ready to defend themselves and they know it. in other words, you slipped up when you entered but you must take responsiability for your mistakes and fix iraq after you broke it.

found something btw
http://select.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/opinion/28kristof.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

so when this poll was taken 23 wanted to stay as long as needed, about the same amount wanted to pull out immietly and the rest wanted to pull out gradually.

ookami

10-16-2008, 06:45 PM

Listen if you even just though of 1 soldier and how far his family streaches, Obama will win by a landslide! :p McCain has all the same policies as George. W. Bush even white supremesist would rather vote for Obama.

Shdo

10-16-2008, 07:06 PM

as you can see in the polls mccain and his side have more then 1 man support, he got millions.

its true that obama have more support but that is logical since the american public just want to leave that place, the immidiate redrwal and stay as long as it needed are the core of each candidate but the middle (those who wants to stay and finish the job or at least not leaving fast so iraq would crush down) are the ones that will win the election (either that or the economy)

those guys who wants to decrease troops in iraq over time can still vote for mccain but in all the american public is sucked into this 'change' herd.

if you leave iraq too soon the result would be a megaslaughter on an epic scale, and i usually wouldnt give a damn but it will spread tot he rest of the area, the gulf emirates would suffer from that and this cannot be allowed.

the most that will happen will be a slow redraw, i dont see obama keeping his word about iraq if violence would start to increase, not because he dosnt want to but because it wont be possiable to forsake all of america allies in the middle east to the rising violence.

CeriaHalcyon

10-16-2008, 09:30 PM

Inevitable: I disagree with most of the video you posted, except for the part about Obama's wife being anti white, i think there is some legitimacy to that, but on the whole, those people do represent a hateful side of the republican party.

But as far as i'm concerned, the issues have no bearing on my vote for Mccain, because it depends on the congress and Senate whether or either candidate is able to get anywhere with any of their planned reforms.

What it comes down to is character.

and i do see another GW bush in McCain, but that's what our country needs, not a smooth talking rockstar who has not disclosed who is funding him and what kind of favors that will require afterwards.

I continue to see Obama as inexperienced, where as McCain was a former member of the armed forces, how is Obama supposed to possibly lead our armed forces when he's never been in the military?

I'll say this as many times as it's necessary, but the people clinging to the false hope of change will never listen.

when it comes to character, MCcain wins by a landslide.

Rain

10-16-2008, 09:46 PM

edit- ceria, sorry, i didn't notice right after i posted, thanks ^^

If the two term limit for presidency was revoked, i would vote for George W. Bush again, as i did in 04.

Why you ask?

Because Democrats cannot be trusted, they're all nothing but smooth talking liars. More so than republicans.

But that's another thing altogether,

Bush is what's right for this country, he's not a rockstar, he's a humble man with good honest values. he believes in morality, which is something the rest of the world can confirm we are very lacking in.

ahh, then this is where the fundamental difference is

but Bush being right for this country, i disagree with that on so many levels I can't even begin to argue it

I just don't see how someone who was in charge over the last 8 years, and how far its fallen over these years, is right for the country in any way

as for the democrats veing smooth talkign liars...what have they lied about to make them any worse than the replublicans or even our current president

Our current leaders said they knew, that they had evidence that there were weapons of mass destruction, and yet, later on, we come to find they never had any evidence. They just kind of thought they were there.

And Bush may or may not be a moral guy, but if he hasn't increased the publics level of morality in the last 8 years, then that is a moot point

As far as i'm concerned, the issues have no bearing on my vote for Mccain, because it depends on the congress and Senate whether or either candidate is able to get anywhere with any of their planned reforms.

What it comes down to is character.

and i do see another GW bush in McCain,

when it comes to character, MCcain wins by a landslide.

again, I just fundamentally disagree..completely

in terms of character, I'd place obama several notches above McCain

^ original post :XD

new version :D

Inevitable: I disagree with most of the video you posted, except for the part about Obama's wife being anti white, i think there is some legitimacy to that, but on the whole, those people do represent a hateful side of the republican party.

But as far as i'm concerned, the issues have no bearing on my vote for Mccain, because it depends on the congress and Senate whether or either candidate is able to get anywhere with any of their planned reforms.

What it comes down to is character.

and i do see another GW bush in McCain, but that's what our country needs, not a smooth talking rockstar who has not disclosed who is funding him and what kind of favors that will require afterwards.

I continue to see Obama as inexperienced, where as McCain was a former member of the armed forces, how is Obama supposed to possibly lead our armed forces when he's never been in the military?

I'll say this as many times as it's necessary, but the people clinging to the false hope of change will never listen.

when it comes to character, MCcain wins by a landslide.

yes, Obama has never been in the military before, and so he might not be as qualified as McCain to lead them. But thats what advisors are for

Personally i put more weight in the candidate having a better chance at fixing our country than fixing another countries

McCain's own side has said if the election comes down to economic policy, theyll lose

that says to me they don't have faith in their economic plan

It may sound horrible, but really, i want our country to be fixed, we'll either somehow end the wars or put them on hold or what, i dunno, and don't care right now, i wnat the next president to fix our country