The meaning of "Pure Blood."

[Ichigo]

The entire idea of Pure Blood is a key element to where the story is in the manga. However, what does it actually mean?

Right now most people will say pure blood refers to the Quincy's bloodline, mainly the importance of two pure blooded Quincies having a child to continue the pure bloodline. However, we also know Ichigo is considered to be of pure blood. This has caused some people to think Ichigo's real father is a Quincy (or someone besides Isshin). However, right before Isshin cuts down Grand Fisher the hollow remarks Ichigo as being of pure blood only after finding out his father was a shinigami.

This has gotten me to think that the pure bloodline is not unique to the Quincy, but to all Spiritual Beings. Is it possible that pure blood is linked to descendents of the Noble households in Soul Society? Or even direct descendents of the Soul King? Thoughts?

[silverquord]

Was checking earlier on this. For everyone's reference, Kubo used different japanese terms for true blood, pure blood and mixed blood:

真血 (shinketsu) = translation "true blood" (used by Grand Fisher)
純血統 (Echt*) = translation "pure blood" (used by Ryuuken)
混血統 (Gemischt*) = translation "mixed blood" (used by Ryuuken)

*In German. German speakers, please correct if the german name is wrong....

[Chimera Cord]

There is a difference in the power of people born from shinigami and people who discover their own shinigami power. That's what GF was observing

[Giusel]

The true blood issue is the most enigmatic at the moment. Let's see what we know:

1) Grand Fisher stated Ichigo was a "shinketsu" after he saw Isshin as a Shinigami. Therefore, it has to do something with having Shinigami blood/genes;

2) We don't know if Grand Fisher was aware of Masaki being a Quincy, let's say he was: we know some Quincies has Pure Blood and some others are blood mixed. So, blood seems to be important to the Quincies;

3) Ichigo has the Blut power. We still don't know how other Quincies like Quilge and As Nodt aquired it, if they had it since they were born, or if it was besotwed upon them by Juhabach (Quilge seems to intend that), but surely Ichigo has this power innate.

To conclude, I think that to be a Pure Blood like Ichigo, it is necessary to have either/both Pure Quincy Blood, and/or some sort of supernatural inheritance, like a Noble Shinigami

[Ryujin Jakka]

I'm assuming the term "True Blood" refers to a child born from a Noble Shinigami, and a Echt Quincy. Basically, Ichigo has the strongest elements from both sides. And that's not even factoring in his Hollow/Fullbring powers.

[BlackSoul]

again; why are ppl so hung up on this pure-blood comment?
ichigo's born from a quincy mother and shinigami father so he's a hybrid/mixed blood/Mischling (the correct german term, if anyone cared) or whatever you might call it.
it's not even a point of discussion or anything since the very definiation of pure-blood excludes him.

merriam webster definition of pure-blooded:
of unmixed ancestry <both dogs are pure-blooded Chesapeake Bay retrievers>
link (http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/pure-blooded?show=0&t=1365695214)

case closed.

[bliz]

Has anyone stopped to think:

Where did Grand Fisher's knowledge of true blood come from?

Seriously,

(a) GF doesn't remember Ichigo's mother, let alone she is a Quincy and a pure blood
(b) GF doesn't know Isshin is Shiba, thus a noble

Now ask yourself where the "true blood" comment comes from?

[Ryujin Jakka]

Has anyone stopped to think:

Where did Grand Fisher's knowledge of true blood come from?

Seriously,

(a) GF doesn't remember Ichigo's mother, let alone she is a Quincy and a pure blood
(b) GF doesn't know Isshin is Shiba, thus a noble

Now ask yourself where the "true blood" comment comes from?
Aizen, I'm assuming.

[Chimera Cord]

Has anyone stopped to think:

Where did Grand Fisher's knowledge of true blood come from?

Seriously,

(a) GF doesn't remember Ichigo's mother, let alone she is a Quincy and a pure blood
(b) GF doesn't know Isshin is Shiba, thus a noble

Now ask yourself where the "true blood" comment comes from?

The conversations he has had with other Hollows and the Shinigami he has fought/killed over his long lifetime.

[bliz]

Now lets move on......

If GF source said Ichigo is a "true blood" and the meaning behind what a true blood is.

If so,

GF should know what makes a "true blood".

Yet,

Why did GF say Ichigo is a "true blood" after leaning Isshin is his father, a shinigami?


Shouldn't he already know Isshin is a shinigami, if the definition of true blood was "Quincy and Shinigami"?

Or,

He was told a alternate definition of a true blood?




However, if GF was only told Ichigo is a "true blood" and not the definition of it, then GF conclusion is basically his interpretation. Therefore could very well be wrong.

[igge]

The conversations he has had with other Hollows and the Shinigami he has fought/killed over his long lifetime.

He said himself that he can't remember more than a few months back in time. Six months, I think it was.

[ForestOne]

Can't true blood mean that the child is born from one or two parents with Shinigami powers?

I'm assuming here that Grand Fisher is left in the dark and that Aizen did not bother to tell him all the details of Ichigo. After he noticed that Isshin, his father, was a Shinigami (with a captain coat *don't remember how it's named again*) he that probably assumes he is a true blood or something.

[Chimera Cord]

He said himself that he can't remember more than a few months back in time. Six months, I think it was.
Specific memories=/=knowledge learned

[Sariniste]

Now lets move on......

If GF source said Ichigo is a "true blood" and the meaning behind what a true blood is.

If so,

GF should know what makes a "true blood".

Yet,

Why did GF say Ichigo is a "true blood" after leaning Isshin is his father, a shinigami?


Shouldn't he already know Isshin is a shinigami, if the definition of true blood was "Quincy and Shinigami"?

Or,

He was told a alternate definition of a true blood?




However, if GF was only told Ichigo is a "true blood" and not the definition of it, then GF conclusion is basically his interpretation. Therefore could very well be wrong.

I believe that “true blood” will end up meaning a mixture of ALL races in Bleach. Very different from “pure blood” and I think Kubo will make that distinction later. I think we will find out that Ichigo will turn out to be a mixture of everything. Which, I believe, will end up making him eligible to be the successor to the spirit throne, because the current king, it will turn out, does not have the “true blood.” (another crack theory ... ;) )

[black mamba]

There is a difference in the power of people born from shinigami and people who discover their own shinigami power. That's what GF was observing

This is all GF meant. He said it after seeing Ichigo's father was also a shinigami. His words are being over-analyzed when the explanation is very straightforward. The references to blood right now have to do with Quincy, there is no connection to what GF said.

[Andygoesrawr]

Was checking earlier on this. For everyone's reference, Kubo used different japanese terms for true blood, pure blood and mixed blood:

真血 (shinketsu) = translation "true blood" (used by Grand Fisher)
純血統 (Echt*) = translation "pure blood" (used by Ryuuken)
混血統 (Gemischt*) = translation "mixed blood" (used by Ryuuken)

*In German. German speakers, please correct if the german name is wrong....

This is correct. Mangastream used "mischlinge" and "reinblutigen", which are German translations of the Japanese names, but "gemischt" and "echt" are the terms used by Kubo.

I believe "true blood" is in reference to Ichigo actually being a Shinigami. At the time, there was no reference to anything besides Ichigo being born with a Shinigami parent. Plus, the Kanji in "shinketsu" means "real" or "genuine" more so than "pure" (but apparently "pure" is an acceptable translation).
It's also the same Kanji used in Shinji's name.

Whereas the terms used by Ryuuken are specifically in the context of bloodline. The best analogy for this is a dog. You have purebreds and you have mongrels. By all means, Ichigo is a mongrel, so why would Grand Fisher call him a "true blood"? It's surely only because of his father being a Shinigami.

Does anybody have the Kanji used by Juhabach in reference to Quilge being a "pure Quincy"? IIRC, it was different yet. It was more like "raw Quincy", perhaps referring to the fact that he's a human and not an Arrancar?

[Ryujin Jakka]

By all means, Ichigo is a mongrel
He's a mongrel with two purebred parents, so not a normal mongrel by any means.

[silverquord]

This is correct. Mangastream used "mischlinge" and "reinblutigen", which are German translations of the Japanese names, but "gemischt" and "echt" are the terms used by Kubo.

[...]

Does anybody have the Kanji used by Juhabach in reference to Quilge being a "pure Quincy"? IIRC, it was different yet. It was more like "raw Quincy", perhaps referring to the fact that he's a human and not an Arrancar?

Thanks for confirming Andygoesrawr.
This is the jap word Bach used to describe Opie: 生粋の滅却師
Could be coined as pure, natural born or genuine. I'm assuming "natural born"

--- UPDATE ----
Agree both terms Ryuuken used were pertaining to the Quincy concept of purebloodness, while GF's comment is up in the air, but likely based on shinigami concept. Since Quincy and shinigami have opposite powers, I think they are likely the two sides of the same coin. Maybe Ichigo got a drastic power compared to others, since he had best of both worlds?

[Arkyle]

Maybe it refers only to a person born from two spiritually aware beings. GF's comment was made SOOOOOO long ago that maybe Kuto forgot/changed the meaning of the term, anyway.

[Herakles]

Maybe it refers only to a person born from two spiritually aware beings. GF's comment was made SOOOOOO long ago that maybe Kuto forgot/changed the meaning of the term.

There is no way Kubo has forgotten about the "True Blood" comment, considering on two separate occasions we have Omake releases discussing or alluding to this concept...

http://puu.sh/2yvJR
Here is one of them, I cannot find the other. But according to Grandfisher, it apparently has something to do with Isshin being a Shinigami - but as the captions suggest, "what does he really mean?"

[B. Haddrell]

When it comes to “pure” and this definitely applies to “true”, the definition is less rooted in scientific fact but more in ideology. Ideology is very much rooted in individual beliefs and very much in the eye of the beholder.

Being a SF fan, I remember an episode of the series Babylon 5 about a long lost civilization. It turns out that these people designed an automatic defense system that would kill everyone who is not “pure” (name of the species), which was meant as protection against invaders. These walking killing machines finally killed every sentient being on the planet because to them, nobody was “pure”.

“Pure” can mean many things. It can mean that only Quincies who come from an uninterrupted line of Quincy parents are pure. But how pure would be a Quincy from such a family who didn`t inherit Quincy powers or less than would have been expected?

“Pure” can mean that only Quincies who achieved a certain amount of power should be allowed to breed or join. This would put the focus on achievement and less on birth records. I have a strong suspicion, this is the kind of purity the Vandenreich believes in.

Silverquord, pure, natural born and genuine might look the same at first glance but all these descriptions can have different meanings. It comes down to definition and ideology.

I agree, when it comes to the Vandenreich, what first of all counts is “natural born”. Created Quincies, like the “Quarrancars” are not seen as “chosen ones”.

“True” is describing first of all a value. If Ichigo is “true” blood, this might not be about “purity” at all but could even mean that Ichigo is “true” blooded because of the mix inside him. This mix can include his powers but also his beliefs, his attitudes, his actions.

[Andygoesrawr]

When it comes to “pure” and this definitely applies to “true”, the definition is less rooted in scientific fact but more in ideology. Ideology is very much rooted in individual beliefs and very much in the eye of the beholder.

Being a SF fan, I remember an episode of the series Babylon 5 about a long lost civilization. It turns out that these people designed an automatic defense system that would kill everyone who is not “pure” (name of the species), which was meant as protection against invaders. These walking killing machines finally killed every sentient being on the planet because to them, nobody was “pure”.

“Pure” can mean many things. It can mean that only Quincies who come from an uninterrupted line of Quincy parents are pure. But how pure would be a Quincy from such a family who didn`t inherit Quincy powers or less than would have been expected?

“Pure” can mean that only Quincies who achieved a certain amount of power should be allowed to breed or join. This would put the focus on achievement and less on birth records. I have a strong suspicion, this is the kind of purity the Vandenreich believes in.

Silverquord, pure, natural born and genuine might look the same at first glance but all these descriptions can have different meanings. It comes down to definition and ideology.

I agree, when it comes to the Vandenreich, what first of all counts is “natural born”. Created Quincies, like the “Quarrancars” are not seen as “chosen ones”.

“True” is describing first of all a value. If Ichigo is “true” blood, this might not be about “purity” at all but could even mean that Ichigo is “true” blooded because of the mix inside him. This mix can include his powers but also his beliefs, his attitudes, his actions.

The terms used by Ryuuken have very specific meanings in Japanese. "血統" means pedigree, referring to the practice of selective breeding. "純血統" is quite a specific way of saying "purebred", in this context referring to people who are the result of two Quincies who are born with Quincy powers. "混血統" means "mixed pedigree", obviously referring to people/animals who are the result of mixing races. So there is no doubt in my mind that the terms used by Ryuken are in reference to the Quincy bloodline, similar to royalty and "keeping it in the family".

However, the term used by Grand Fisher is really loose. But in context ("If your father is a Shinigami, that means you are a true blood"), it's fair to say that all he's saying is that a true-blood is someone who was actually born a Shinigami, rather than having Shinigami powers transferred to them like may have happened with Ginjo.

But there's still the question of why Grand Fisher would know this term and its significance.

[Chimera Cord]

I Grand Fisher fought the child of any shinigami bloodline then he'd probably notice a general difference in power and skill. Shinigami are so prideful that I'm sure they'd gladly explain it to him.

[Franco]

The terms used by Ryuuken have very specific meanings in Japanese. "血統" means pedigree, referring to the practice of selective breeding. "純血統" is quite a specific way of saying "purebred", in this context referring to people who are the result of two Quincies who are born with Quincy powers. "混血統" means "mixed pedigree", obviously referring to people/animals who are the result of mixing races. So there is no doubt in my mind that the terms used by Ryuken are in reference to the Quincy bloodline, similar to royalty and "keeping it in the family".

I agree with this. I've browsed through a couple of articles (since surfing Wikipedia can be hardly called research lol) and it's true that the practice of making babies with your cousins really was a tradition among a lot of royal families before. They did it to either:

Preserve their pure blood, or
Make sure their royal fortunes stayed with family members only

So yes, the pure blood comment has more to do with the actual genetics, I think.


However, the term used by Grand Fisher is really loose. But in context ("If your father is a Shinigami, that means you are a true blood"), it's fair to say that all he's saying is that a true-blood is someone who was actually born a Shinigami, rather than having Shinigami powers transferred to them like may have happened with Ginjo.

Also agreeing with this. By mentioning that Ichigo was a true blood, Grand Fisher probably meant that Ichigo really did have the blood of a shinigami in him and that he was not the "inexperienced boy" he thought he was.

http://i20.mangareader.net/bleach/21/bleach-9398.jpg

http://i29.mangareader.net/bleach/21/bleach-9403.jpg

http://i6.mangareader.net/bleach/21/bleach-9409.jpg

(Bleach 21)
http://i4.mangareader.net/bleach/22/bleach-9422.jpg

http://i36.mangareader.net/bleach/22/bleach-9423.jpg

http://i36.mangareader.net/bleach/22/bleach-9424.jpg

http://i12.mangareader.net/bleach/22/bleach-9426.jpg

(Bleach 22)
1. Grand Fisher only attacks humans with high spiritual levels. Perhaps this is why he has eluded the shinigamis for so long; because he only preys on humans instead of them. This is because he knows the humans can't fight back.
2. Enter Ichigo, shinigami Boy Wonder. Despite his shinigami powers, he is obviously still new to them, thus very inexperienced and an obvious n00b.
3. Grand Fisher insists on calling Ichigo "boy," "guy," and other variations of a human dude. Not a shinigami, a human person. This is because of Ichigo's obvious inexperience and carelessness during their fight. Grand Fisher was Ichigo's first boss fight, so the guy's weakness here's plenty understandable.
4. Grand Fisher then refuses to acknowledge Ichigo's existence as a shinigami and refuses to take him seriously, which prove to be fatal mistakes on his part later on.

http://i10.mangareader.net/bleach/187/bleach-12911.jpg

http://i2.mangareader.net/bleach/187/bleach-12913.jpg

(Bleach 187)
5. Grand Fisher might have assumed that Ichigo's shinigami powers then were only temporary, as he was still obviously careless in their first fight. Upon finding out that Ichigo really has shinigami blood in him (as proven by Isshin), Grand Fisher realizes that Ichigo is indeed, a "true blood," or the real deal, which he says so out loud.

As for the question on how Grand Fisher knows about these things, well...

He is a Hollow. He eats humans on a daily basis. I suppose he's a credible enough source on the topic of how purebloods/true bloods/other bloods are supposed to taste like.

[nky0411]

i think Grand Fisher was referring that Ichigo isn't just some substitute shinigami that get power from another shinigami.. One of his parent is a shinigami

I guess GF knows that Ichigo got his power from Rukia, thinking he obtained the power from another shinigami, but in actual fact, Ichigo has shinigami power since he was born