Spanish basketball team makes "slant eyes"

[cornflakes]

Spanish basketball team poses for offensive picture (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/Spanish-basketball-team-poses-for-offensive-pict;_ylt=AsnKr.Mu38mVQhSElcfYe4vFKZt4?urn=oly,100 152)

Fuss over photo (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/basketball/news?slug=ro-spain081308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)


^ Self-explanatory...... yay or nay? Personally, I'm with the Spanish athletes.


EDIT: Damn, does this belong in Social General? Mods please move it if that's the case. :oops

[Spartan27]

It was pretty freakin stupid to do that, I mean what did they think was going to happen. Spain in the past has had trouble in terms of racism in sports. Spanish fans have been known to hurl racist slurs at players during soccer games, and the Spanish coach Aragones was also cited for a racist slur at a French player in the past. Those were incidents where it's very troubling, but they are also usually coming from ultras who tend to be heavily right wing nationalists.

This is just stupid, why do it? Couldn't they have done something more respectful? Like a traditional Chinese bow, or perhaps have some sort of chinese character on their jerseys? I mean why would you use a racist image to promote the games?

[spacecat]

People always make a big deal out of these things that's why you shouldn't do it. Even if it wasn't meant as a racist kind of joke I'm sure someone would take it that way so yeah, it's probs best not to bother :cookie I agree with Sparten, a bow or something would go down a lot better.

[speedphantom]

Well, I see from the point of Pau Gasol that the advertisers told them to do it so they did it and I guess they wouldn't have figured the advertisers to be racist. But yeah, as the article mentions, there are Spanish sports fans and people are racist and I guess this is either having no sensitivity to what the action actually means or is just plain stupid and racist.

I'm Chinese and I think it's funny if people try to make fun of Asians that way but yeah, that's quite a silly thing to do when you're surrounded by over a billion "slanty eyed" people:lmao.

[Spartan27]

I actually think this is a great example of how the west is still ignorant in terms of the east in general. The Spanish problems with racist chants is a problem that deals with a minority of the population, what's the problem with that is that there hasn't been enough of a crackdown on racism in that country in terms of stopping these racist chants or sentiments. Aragones should have been fired for his statement, but he was only fined a few thousand Euro.

I think we should also remember that it's the Spanish Basketball federations or whatever it's called that should be called out, the players were just doing what they were told to do, so I don't really blame them, but the federation should never have allowed this to take place, the advertisers should as well be blamed of course.

[Hiraeth]

Okay this may get me massively flamed, but why would people find this offensive?

This may be an incredibly ignorant point of view for me to have, but what is it about this gesture that offended people?

[Spartan27]

It's a pose that some chinese and asians in general find offensive because it's accentuates the idea of slanty eyes. In the past Asians in general have been called Slanty eyed bastards or something of the nature. It's also goes into a sterotype that all Chinese or Asians are somehow devious, that they are underhanded in deals, sneaky.

Some of this comes out how Asians (especially Chinese) were persecuted against during the Gold Rush in California, where other Gold miners accused the Chinese of somehow tricking or stealing, or using underhanded means to get gold that should rightfully been theirs. In truth it was mostly because the chinese worked harder than the white gold miners that they prospered.

It's kind of like how the word Jap is offensive, even if it's just the first three letters of the term Japanese.

[Shdo]

Some of this comes out how Asians (especially Chinese) were persecuted against during the Gold Rush in California, where other Gold miners accused the Chinese of somehow tricking or stealing, or using underhanded means to get gold that should rightfully been theirs. In truth it was mostly because the chinese worked harder than the white gold miners that they prospered.



how does that have anything to do with the eyes? it seems to me that the chinise are overeacting, its not like they implied something like chinise are shifty people or something.

but i do agree its not a smart move to do in another country because you cant know how they will react.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap

[Spartan27]

Well of course it's stupid to say that their eyes have anything to do with anything, but there is a idea that they are hiding something, that they're crafty, there was the idea that how could people that were physically smaller produce more gold than the bigger white men who would seem to be the people better suited to such a grueling job. It's stupid really, it's like saying that all blondes are stupid because of their blond hair.

[Shdo]

so if someone put a blond wig its insulting?

[Rain]

well, im not a fan of what they did, but I don't think there should be a giant uproar over it

I mean it may have been meant as a joke, but im sure they knew it would be slightly offensive, but either way I don't think its somethign that should be made a big deal of. But that goes back to my views on racism and such itself

[Spartan27]

I should really stop talking about this, but I'll say this, personally I don't think it should be too big a deal, it was just a stupid thing to do, I'm not that upset about it, it's just stupid in my opinion.

[cornflakes]

It's a pose that some chinese and asians in general find offensive because it's accentuates the idea of slanty eyes.
"Some" being the keyword here. Being one of them slanty-eyed Chinese myself, I still find jokes about Chinese stereotypes hilarious. The pic itself was pretty amusing, in a way that wouldn't have been with some Chinese bow or something lame like that. I'd much rather have something like this than some hokey "the Orient is ancient and spiritual" crap. (Which, incidentally, is faintly offensive to me-- it's condescending.)

how does that have anything to do with the eyes? it seems to me that the chinise are overeacting, its not like they implied something like chinise are shifty people or something.
It's political correctness at work here again. Note that the Chinese government have been mum about this-- the main whistleblower was a British newspaper. It recalls the phrase "more Catholic than the pope".

Some of this comes out how Asians (especially Chinese) were persecuted against during the Gold Rush in California, where other Gold miners accused the Chinese of somehow tricking or stealing, or using underhanded means to get gold that should rightfully been theirs. In truth it was mostly because the chinese worked harder than the white gold miners that they prospered.

It's kind of like how the word Jap is offensive, even if it's just the first three letters of the term Japanese.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/mr_cereal/chinese_owl.jpg
:cookie

[Spartan27]

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/mr_cereal/chinese_owl.jpg
:cookie

lol, that is pretty funny I have to say, and yes some is the keyword.

[Shdo]

oh shit...that cought me off guard....


anyway, i think that there is nothing to it more than any satire show that make someone look like a steryotype, for example i saw a episode of chicken robot where they had a sketch of the israelis and palestinians peace confrance and the palestinian looked arab while the israelis looked heavily jewish (black cloths, shtrimal).

now i am israeli and i wasnt insulted, its meant for laughs and not for hurting and they only potrayed the appearance as much as they knew without actually going into slurs.

laughing on yourself is healthy.

http://forum.valinor.com.br/attachment.php?attachmentid=14777&d=1201809936
http://www.abirwarriorarts.com/pics/sofer%201.jpg
and we will win LOL!

[Spartan27]

I agree for the most part, I mean I make fun of Americans all the time, it's not something that should be a big deal, but for some it is, and in terms of the Olympics it just isn't something that should be done. I mean Robot Chicken, South Park or SNL are very different from the Olympics.

[Shdo]

are they? they are all entertainment.

[Spartan27]

Yes because you are officially representing your country. Would you have a government official make a joke about slant eyes? Those shows mentioned don't really represent anything, the Spanish National team is a representative for it's country, the Olympics in general is about the world coming together, thus you can't have a country making a joke about a people's appearance, it doesn't matter that if only a portion of the people are offended, it's still offensive to a lot of people.

[Shdo]

coming together dosnt means that there is no place for humor. i didnt looked at the pictures until i saw this thread and i expected something serious but when i look at them its really nothing, i dont really see how its a slur.

[Spartan27]

Well a significant portion of the Chinese apparently saw it as a slur, it's making fun of their appearance in a way that has historically been a slur, this isn't a new way to make fun of the Chinese. It's not the fact they are making a joke about china or it's people in general, it's the fact they are using a joke that has history. If this was a joke about say fortune cookies I don't think there would be any problem, but because it's something that has been historically made fun of, it's an issue.

I mean there would be issues if a national team made fun of Jews being bankers, or about Mexicans being lazy, Irish being drunks, etc. It's not that the whole country is insulted, it's the fact that a significant portion of the population is insulted.

[Shdo]

but its not laughing about them being some stereotype like bankers or lazy or whatever, its about physical attribute that isnt really insulting when you think about it.

as for the chinese reaction, well they are serious about everything, ive seen how they prepared for the Olympics and its was nothing less than epic (and i am not talking about building stuff) for example learning English, they made it into a national project, if you had seen the documentary i saw you would understand (learn English or you will shame your parents! LOL) they need to chill as a country.

its seems that people in china takes is much more hard than chinese people who live in america or anywhere else, there is a reason for that.


EDIT: also its seems that the pictures were taken in spain before the team even went to china so its makes the ordeal less offensive than the spanish team going to china and than take it infront of the press, from the picture its seems like something unproffesional that one of them took)

[Spartan27]

Shdo you absolutely correct about China, it's incredible how much has been put into these games, and the Chinese as a whole are more prickly about this issue than others would be, for example if there was a fat joke about Americans, I'm sure there would be a few that would be upset, but most would laugh or not really care.

But again I go back to how this is a historical issue, it's been a joke and has been used as a slur in the past, slant eyes has been used much the same way that the term yellow, nigger, or Beaner has been used, granted the term is not as offensive as others, but it's still been used none the less.

Overall it isn't as offensive as it is being made out to be by some, but it's also something that is in bad taste. Another joke could have been used that wouldn't have been as offensive to some.

[speedphantom]

so if someone put a blond wig its insulting?There was a famous case in which this Australian rules football tv personality painted his face black because there was an Australian aboriginal player on the show. A blonde wig isn't suggestion anything towards a race or mocking them, it just is. Making a slanty eyed face is a rather obvious gesture to mock "slanty eyed" people because it just has that history. If the history isn't there then it's just making a face. So it's not about the actual face made but more about making the face in spite of the history.

[Shdo]

and how exactly a slanty eyed face has that history between spain and china? what is that history anyway?


as for making another joke, keep in mind that the picture was taken back in spain in their gym, just look at it. it was something that was done by the team in thier locker rooms but the reaction make it look like spain officely called a press confrance and presented them with this picture or taken it on china soil.
it was simply posted in one spanish paper.

[Spartan27]

It's not between specifically spain and china, from my knowledge the two have had little history together, it's the history between China and the west in general. Remember China has had extensive history with the British, Americans, Germans, and French, with all of them having spent time in China's main ports and cities. During this time the Chinese had been subjugated to humiliation by all the countries. Slanty eyes is just a part of this history, as the characteristic was made fun of by people of the west.

[Shdo]

can anyone say that chinise people dont have eyes that are more slanty than other people (in this case spanish) its a pysical characteristic and if someone chose to see it as insulting is beyond me. i personally think that those eyes are beautiful, i really dont see anything humiliating about those eyes.

for example the all black Haka, its this war dance they have before a match and other teams started to create their own dance before the match, is that insulting?
a insult is an insult when its actually comes to hurt someone, or otherwise everything can be considered a insult.

[Spartan27]

The difference is that there isn't about 200 years of history, and the picture is meant as a joke, not as a sign of respect towards the Chinese people.

[Shdo]

a joke, a wink, a gesture, those are not really insults.

[Spartan27]

They are when the Chinese misinterpret the joke, the point is that the Spanish should know better than to do a joke that can easily mistaken for a insult, there are many jokes that can be originally meant as lighthearted, but can also hurt others, the difference here again is that it's a national team not a comic or some regular joe.

[earthforge]

All I see this as is a stupid gesture was done, with the intent being just to joke around. If people are complaining, I think they have little basis, since it seems little more than that. Though I wouldn't be surprised the Chinese would get all hypersensitive.Sure these people weren't acting while they were thinking. However, I haven't seen this in many reliable news sources, so it almost doesn't matter. All this shows is that the basketball tean was stupid and the chinese are pissed with them because that is the team that is on their soil. But it doesn't matter. I don't think this is a debate item.

[Shdo]

but why do you think that the spanish would see that as a possiable insult? after all they had little common history with china as you said.

[speedphantom]

The point is they should have known it could be taken in that way and proceeding in spite of that is just being insensitive.

It's like say someone's dad died and you say to them "I'm going camping with my dad this weekend! It's going to be so much fun! I love my dad!".

Sure saying you're going camping with your dad and you love him is fine, BUT given that their dad just died, it's being insensitive. I hope I don't have to explain the parallels between this example and the slanty eyes and being in China and how that is SEEN as being rude but a gesture is just a gesture. It's the symbolism of it.

[Shdo]

again its a matter of actual history between the two people.
for example black slavery, it might be a issue in some countries but people in other countries wont even notice they are doing something insulting because black slavery isnt part of their history.

when you say that it was used by american gold miners or british colonialists you forget that this got little to do with spain.

[Spartan27]

But it has to do with the western world and on top of that I find it fairly obvious that making a slanty eyed gesture could be seen as a rude, I mean I wouldn't go to England with a false set of bad teeth speakin with a cockney accent going "ello govner"

[speedphantom]

Well if the Spanish have no idea at all what doing the slanty eyes is then ok, that's a fair point but I'm sure they know about it in someway or another. In primary school on my first day I remember other kids doing it. That was my first time experiencing it and I knew exactly what it was.

[Shdo]

even if they had some knowladge about it, it wasnt that well known as a insulting as someone from another country see it.

keep in mind that there are more than 200 countries in this little world and even more nationalities, what is insulting to one isnt considered insulting for another, and what is honorable and good for one is wicked and horriable to another.
this insult to the chinise might have seen in spain (as it seems that is the case) as a gesture of just fun, and of course it could have been something malicious as well but you cant judge their situation without actually looking about it from their eyes as well.

[emoloz]

Yeha that was a bit of a dumb idea of course that would have een taken the wrong way what idiots tbh.

[♠ Saint ♠]

So.... when and if the games ever go to Spain again, the Chinese team can pose for an ad dressed as matadors and spreading their eyes open and by rule, the Spanish can't say jack. And to any Spanish individual that gets upset, just hold on now. I'm related through my pater-maternal line to the Marreros of northern Spain. I can say that about my cultural heritage. And knowing my father's side in Puerto Rico, they'd get a laugh out of it if the Chinese did.

If that sounded racist, it was not intentional. I'm just making a point of being tit for tat.

Seriously, this is just one issue of several that tick me off about the Olympics. The games are supposed to be that one time that everyone takes a break and unites in the spirit of friendly competition. People who use the Games to further a personal agenda (That Jewls guy who set off the bomb back at the Atlanta Games, those Free Tibet Protesters, etc) should seriously just knock it off. I mean, take a break for once. Take the month off and let the world have it's party. Don't spike the punch.

[Shdo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93KrnZ0UJQk

is it racist or funny? i am white and i find it hilarious.
so why do people always insist of getting insulted?

[Rain]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93KrnZ0UJQk

is it racist or funny? i am white and i find it hilarious.
so why do people always insist of getting insulted?

IMO, neither

its not so much racist, but i dont think its funny, but meh, maybe thats just me

as for why people get insutled, is that such a problem. im not saying you don't have pride in your race, but if someone, something, some group belittles yours, whether it be a joke or not, if it is a gesture against your culture you have every right to be upset

[Nejibana]

OMG! Are you guys seriously discussing about this? I can't believe it. It's only a joke! Spanish team wasn't pretending to offend anyone ._.
It's like when you say that Spain people wear flamenco dress or everyone likes bullfighting (which is not reality).

Don't take it seriously, it's not racism, it was only a joke.

Aaaaand if you count what happened with Hamilton as racism you don't know what happened really. It was because at that time were Carnaval and people disguise themselves, and it's normal! Spanish people is not racist.

[bradc]

Someone people just can't take jokes, even if is not funny. Some people are just sensitive. Something be funny to someone, may not be funny to another. It's just the way it is. Every country has it's own cultural humour; you can't just waltz in and start cracking them without understanding the culture first, or it be categorize as stereotyped and racist.

[Spartan27]

I don't think some people are getting the point. It's not that what the Spanish team was so incredibly bad, it's just something that they probably should have thought better of. It just isn't smart to make a joke about another people's appearance, especially during the Olympics

As for the Spanish being racists, no the vast majority of the Spanish population is not racist, but there is a problem with racism in sport there. Spanish football has been plagued with fans doing monkey chants as well the issue with Aragones. It isn't a significant minority, but it is a problem. There are problems with racism in many countries, I'm not signaling Spain out, but you can't ignore a problem.

[speedphantom]

Just because maybe most people here don't think of it as racist doesn't mean the others don't think it's racist either. Are people actually blaming the Chinese for being offended? It'd ridiculous to say an action which is meaning to make fun of the Chinese appearance isn't racist!

The point is that there ARE people who will be offended by it no matter what so stop saying they shouldn't be offended or "it's just a face". That's besides the point, they should have known it's offensive and should have realised that.

[Miyona]

What Speed said :p

Unless you are chinese...you cant really say its not racist...because its not about you...

if I was chinese I wouldnt think it was a big deal, but Im not so I cant really say >_>

[peca]

PFFFFFFF. My Country is very cosmopolitan. There is people from all over the world and there is more problems with racism here in the USA that over there. We tend to be more appreciative of other cultures and have curiosity about them (and we can actually find these countries in the map). I know that MY COUNTRY, SPAIN, is not perfect and there has been in the past racist slurrs in games, but that is just mindless frustration and lack of class. But this picture was taken in just funny good nature, they were not thinking in offending anyone and I know me and my people, like to joke around a lot, but we don't mean anything by it. In this case, I think is an exageration. People are just loosing the sense of humor and we are killing the fun. Like Carlos Mencia likes to say, We should all make fun of each other and laugh about ourselves and that way all this stupid prejudice will be over. It is more racist to think something is racist. You are giving it that meaning, when there should be none if you are truly not thinking that way. We are all people, we are all Humans and the differences is what makes us unique and we should celebrate them. It is in good fun and good nature. No mean spirit there at all. I hope that made sense ^_^

[bradc]

In the end it still comes down to respect... Some people just get offended easily, if they are not careful for what they say and act. One's team represents your country, and seeing something like this; people just turns their heads in disgusted. Not everyone gets the same joke if it was suppose to be lighthearted humour because people are individuals as well.


ETA: The Spain Women Basketball Team Does the Same Gestures (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1044539/Spanish-basketball-team-sparks-Olympic-row-pictured-making-slant-eye-gesture.html)...

[Shadoblak]

Bottom line. It's offensive even if only to some, and it was in extremely bad taste. You can't argue that no matter how you try... they represent a country and a sport and that was totally unacceptable. Had Team USA pulled that crap the NBA would have crucified them as soon as they got home..

[Aoi Innocence]

I say it was pretty stupid to do that. Even if it wasn't made to be a racist joke they should know that someone would take it the wrong way.

[Spartan27]

How many times do I need to say this, Spain is NOT A FUCKING RACIST COUNTRY!!!! I am not saying that even 3% of the country has racist sentiments, I'm saying that there is a history that a very small minority of right wing idiots have had problems in sport, it's a problem in Italy, Germany, Greece, most of Europe!!! The U.S is terrible when it comes to understanding other countries, our people are some of the most ignorant in the world, but we have almost no problems with racism in sport, you don't see one monkey chant, you don't see anything here.

This is was a stupid idea! I don't think anyone here or anywhere believes the Spanish national team is racist, nobody has said that the team or that the nation is racist, what we are saying is that they made a completely boneheaded mistake. As Shado said, if the U.S.A had done this, everyone in the world would have been outraged, they would have had to go back home in shame.

[bradc]

How is it not racist when it made the news in all the world's headlines, and across the chinese newspapers? Because it's simply that bad, when during the Olympic Games. They were also got booed during the games because of that. Is no different from being bullies in schoolyard making fun of other kids... Lead by example; you earn more respect from people and other countries.

[Nejibana]

In Spain making the 'slant eyes' is a joke, is not like we're underestimating the asian people. It's only a joke, maybe not a clever one, but a joke.

When people says that in Spain there's only flamenco, paella and bulls I can be offended because that's not true. In the northern part of Spain there's no paella, there's not flamenco and of course we don't like bull-fighting. But we aren't offended because is what you think about us. But we can be offended by that generalization.

Asian people have slant eyes and that's a fact, they made that like saying 'we're going to China!' to prove where are they going. Please, don't think of Spain as a racist country because we aren't.

[bradc]

Uh... Not ALL Asians have slant eyes and that's fact. That's a stereotype and ignorant; when people have different facial appearances. China gave them a slap on the wrist, or next time they would have been kicked out of the games.

[Spartan27]

In Spain making the 'slant eyes' is a joke, is not like we're underestimating the asian people. It's only a joke, maybe not a clever one, but a joke.

When people says that in Spain there's only flamenco, paella and bulls I can be offended because that's not true. In the northern part of Spain there's no paella, there's not flamenco and of course we don't like bull-fighting. But we aren't offended because is what you think about us. But we can be offended by that generalization.

Asian people have slant eyes and that's a fact, they made that like saying 'we're going to China!' to prove where are they going. Please, don't think of Spain as a racist country because we aren't.

Look, I really don't think people think that Spain is a racist country and if they do, then they ignorant of the type of country Spain is, but I can't see why the spanish are trying protect themselves, just admit that it was a stupid idea, where the parties involved did not think about how the Chinese would react, it's not a big deal, all you have to say is that you're sorry, and the issue will be solved in my eyes, I think most of the basketball team has already said that it was in bad taste, I know Pau Gasol has.

I just don't see why you have to defend the joke. I mean if a you made a joke about a friend, and the friend got upset, wouldn't you say you're sorry? I know that's what I do.

[ComeComeParadis]

:eek::eek::eek:Wow...I had no idea that there's a thread about this. XP

Just so you guys know, I am Chinese, and born and raised in America. I also know for a fact that Spain is not a racist country.

Yes, I know that what the Spanish team did was nothing more than a joke. It was meant to be funny, and there were no racist intents behind the taking of that picture. But at the same time, I can't just sit there and laugh along with them. Just because the joke was lighthearted and not meant to be taken seriously, I feel that what happened there was a lack of good judgement. And who can blame them? I mean, here are a group of talented athletes excited to represent their country in the Olympics, and trying to capture a memory in a photograph. The last thing on their minds is whether or not their picture will be offensive. Don't get me wrong--I have a sense of humor, and I know that it was just a picture. I also know that it was Just a joke.

The thing is, despite the fact that they didnt mean anything offensive by their joke, it doesnt change the fact that what they were making slanted eyes. And slanted eyes, no matter how lighthearted the gesture may seem can be offensive to a number of people. Was I offended? Personally, I was slightly offended. (but not much.:p) But at the same time, China is where many Chinese people come from, and in a country where the pride of the nation and "keeping face" are among their highest priorities, a joke like the one the Spanish team pulled is not to be taken lightly.

andAsian people have slant eyes and that's a fact, they made that like saying 'we're going to China!' to prove where are they going. Please, don't think of Spain as a racist country because we aren't.

lols, awww, Nejibana! :XD I know that Spain isnt a racist country! :hugs

But one thing that I think I should tell you: I'm am 100% Chinese (no mixed blood/race), and I don't have slant eyes. :) I actually have double eyelids. :p Not all of us have slanted eyes. And I'm sure that the Spanish team meant no harm. It's just that I guess happened was that they had a lapse in good judgement.

Bottom line: Spain meant no harm in taking that photo. It was a joke. Period. But (forgive me if this sounds a tad bit conceited--I dont mean to offend anyone) they chose the wrong country to make fun of, quite honestly. China's a country big on National pride, and the glory of its nation. (can you blame them? ;) ) If you joke about the way we look, regardless of how harmless your intents are, then we're gonig to be offended, and when we are offended, chances are that we won't cheer our hearts out for your team.

Edit: I forgot to mention the fact that slanted eyes are a stereotype printed on not only Chinese people, but Asians in general. So chances are that china wasnt the only country offended. My guess is that Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and countless other Asian countries were also offended.

[bradc]

I guess the past can speak for itself:

In the past the Spanish have been left in no doubt as to the sensitivity of racial issues internationally, especially since Spain's football manager, Luis Aragonés, made his infamous remark about Thierry Henry, monkey chants greeted England's football players in a friendly game in Madrid and the formula one driver Lewis Hamilton was subjected to abuse in Barcelona.


Read: Olympics: Spain's eye-catching faux pas (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/11/olympicsbasketball.olympics20081)

Because your team represents your country; doing something like this really turns head. People from other country won't respect you in return, or want to do business with you. Just saying, you have to becareful what you say and do in other countries too. It was offensive, literally; but enjoy the games anyway.

[peca]

Look, I really don't think people think that Spain is a racist country and if they do, then they ignorant of the type of country Spain is, but I can't see why the spanish are trying protect themselves, just admit that it was a stupid idea, where the parties involved did not think about how the Chinese would react, it's not a big deal, all you have to say is that you're sorry, and the issue will be solved in my eyes, I think most of the basketball team has already said that it was in bad taste, I know Pau Gasol has.

I just don't see why you have to defend the joke. I mean if a you made a joke about a friend, and the friend got upset, wouldn't you say you're sorry? I know that's what I do.

WTF! :confused: , we are not trying to protect ourselves or defend the joke, we are trying to make you understand our train of thought behind it. It was like saying "CHEESE", because they were going to China. In Spain is Ok to do that and that is why the team didn't think much of it when they did it is for "bacilon" and it was a "chorrada" (and we have special slang words for things like that), but we are just saying that it wasn't mean spirited, that's ALL. Now that the team sees how other people think, they might say "sorry" .I just think that Spain is such a free country that we have the FREEDOM to express ourselves in whichever way we want and is not a matter of disrespect, because there is no bad feelings behind it. It was bad judgement perhaps, but it is the way we act over there. It is called "different culture". I personally think that americans get too hang up on things like that. Politically correct crap. If people dissagree with what you are saying then come and talk and we have a dialog and we apologyze or we agree to disagree, end of story (yes like friends will do). I for one didn't do that in the photo, so I am not going to apologyze for them, it is up to them. I was only trying to let you guys know the train of thought behind it, but it seems that it would never be understood, since you guys keep on saying the same thing over and over like parrots. Who the fuck is Paul Gasol to apologyze for them? just because he is here and fell for the peer pressure, what a pussy! He is not the advocate from Spain, it is not his business. I am so sick of shit like that. If the americans would've done that I wouldn't care either, but knowing their culture and knowing how they freak out about this things. I would be a bit more incline towards disrespect, because they are different on the way they think. So don't try to put all cultures under the same rules or codes of ethics, or you will fail to understand the basis of them. I am trying to be objective here. It's like when Janet Jackson showed her breast, with a nipple cover, for like a split second and everybody in this country went APESHIT!!! Really? wtf why? a lump of flesh and people go insane!!! How many people pays money to see celebrity's parts and lust over them, she did it for free and not the whole thing, I thought it was tasteful. Different countries, different reactions. We don't have problems with nudity either. If you are Asian and you are offended by that, well good for you, that is the beauty of free-speech, say so and not back our team up either, that is up to you and everybody is an individual. I am just saying that it is ridiculous how much hype is creating. Now, please, can we drop this non-sense. The MEDIA here sure have people like SHEEP. China has some HUMAN RIGHTS violations, that is offensive to me, they haven't clean up their act!!!!!! That is worst to me!!! The chinese government abuses their own people!!!. The news casts should be broadcasting "NEWS" like wars and genocide and Aids and things that matter, instead of creating and uproar about something stupid like that. Now I am late for my flamenco lesson and next I am going to spear some bulls. Thank you.

EDIT: @fortunate:
"It's baffling that nobody involved in the picture -- from the photographers to the players -- even seemed to consider that this ad would be looked at negatively."
Yes, because nobody thought they were being in any way shape or fucking form insulting. Can some people get it thru their thick skulls (man some people are dense).
^ This. I would honestly like to know who thought this was a good idea. I would love to live in his/her world, where people don't have consequences for their actions. :lmao
What consequences, what actions...? There is nothing to regret there, there was no ill intention... other than there is people in this world that are ignorant. Why don't you come over to my country and learn it for yourself. I invite you to come.
I have received more racism here in USA where I live now, than anywhere else in the world I have visited. BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!!!. Even Jon Stewart condemmed the stupidity of the whole thing by stating "yeah, we don't do that kind of stuff here right?" and he put footage of his own correspondant doing slanted eyes the day before in one of his gigs on the Daily Show. So it is Ok for americans to do it, just not everyone else... OH now I get it!!!! We are cutting into your action. That is the american's job to belittle other cultures and insult us and made fun of our customs. He who cast the first stone... Look at yourselves first, before you judge anyways...
Go torture some "enemy combatants" and say you don't violate any human rights. Talking about taking consquences for your actions!!! what BS.

Apparently, racism isn't a big deal in Spain. Or at least that's what I got from what I read.
__________________
I repeat, we are not racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is ignorant. I don't have patience with ignorant people.

[Fortunate]

"It's baffling that nobody involved in the picture -- from the photographers to the players -- even seemed to consider that this ad would be looked at negatively."

^ This. I would honestly like to know who thought this was a good idea. I would love to live in his/her world, where people don't have consequences for their actions. :lmao

Apparently, racism isn't a big deal in Spain. Or at least that's what I got from what I read.

[bradc]

From what I read from the articles; it was the sponsors (sport sponsorship) idea who took these picture. Then again, finding two pictures of the from both men and women basketball, including the tennis: Spanish Tennis Federation Group Shot (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/15/olympics2008.olympicstennis) pulling the slanted eyes. Some people would still find it offensive... If it was picture that say "Cheese" everyone be smiling for the picture in most western country, but it isn't. When couch try to defend themselves in cases, it just fail because the focus should be the game and not leak controversy that continues.

If Spain wants to host the Olympics; it's highly unlikely to happen.

Entirely written backwards :D

[Spartan27]

If you think it's just like saying cheese, then I really feel sorry for you, that was not just saying cheese, it wasn't, it was racist, it was insensitive, it was stupid, as well this is the whole reason why China is so upset, there hasn't been an apology, it doesn't matter if you or the Spanish team thought it was joke, it wasn't taken as a joke, it was taken as a offensive depiction of what chinese people look like.

China has many problem, personally I feel that the Chinese government (notice I don't say it's people) should never have gotten the games, a one-party governement that hasn't even been elected by it's people should not hold the games, but also if Spain thinks that it's alright to make fun of other people's appearance then they shouldn't have the games either. It isn't right to make a racist face and then say, "oh no, it's fine it was just a joke". So I guess you never say sorry to any friends that are offended by any jokes that you make of them?

If you say it's okay to do this sort of face, than you are also opening the door to acts of white people putting on black face, I mean they're only making fun of black's appearance, right? I can't believe that you would be so insensitive that you can't see how racist making slanted eyes is!

This isn't like showing a breast, it's nothing like it, that wasn't making fun of anyone, that was for shock value, this is a racist joke on a international stage, there's a difference. You say difference cultures, but you see that goes both ways, and just because another culture is not your own, doesn't give your country the right to just ignore how that other country will feel.

America has it's own problems, we know that, but we also don't have any problems in sport, we went through that, obviously Spain has problems in that area, we certainly don't have any monkey chants going on in the crowd like Spain does. As for Jon Stewart, well he isn't a representative of his country, he is also a comedian, he is making fun of a situation, you know what his intent is, it isn't the same situation, as was said before if an american or an american team had done this, than they would have been crucified over here in the states.

Lastly, how in the world can you not see how it is racist? There is history behind that pose, there is hundreds of years behind westerners making fun of the Chinese facial structure, because it's different from their own, so when they see someone who is obviously from the west make that pose, then they obviously are going to take it as an offense.

[Hiraeth]

If Spain wants to host the Olympics; it's highly unlikely to happen.

Why, they gave them to China didn't they?

And by that I mean, with the amount of controversy that produced, why the hell wouldn't they give them to Spain?

For anyone who wants to play down this controversy and attack me here, and I'm looking at one person in particular, here's what Wikipedia has to say:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerns_over_the_2008_Summer_Olympics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_2008_Olympic_bid

but this is off topic so I'd suggest we move on.

[bradc]

Spain wants to bid for 2016 or 2020 Olympic Games in Mirad.

However, the situation has evidently made it worst seeing three more pictures with the same gestures, while the rest of the world questions about what Spain did was right or wrong debate and fueling the fire. It becomes a double-standard, in which the US are and the rest of the world are racial sensitive in their view of Spain and its history. Or you can say they still live in a backward society, what they do may not be offensive. You have to look at both side of the coin...

But if you look at it more of a Media perspective and question, "What does this picture means to you when you look at it?" because is based on an advertisement that been slipped out of hand.

Some people feel is not offensive, while others still find it inappropriate. China brushed it off because it would be hypocrisy of them to kick them out of them games. While US would have been kicked out the games entirely if they pulled that stunt. Then you take look at yourself and world around you; we're not different from each other, but at times really don't need to be pointed out about our certain facial features and be stereotyped :D

[Hiraeth]

If Spain still wants to host bid for the Olympics in 'Mirad' (Madrid?) then I'm sure they can simply promise not to do it again. The IOC will of course believe them, and then when it comes to the actual games Spain can take as many 'slanty eyed' photographs as they want! Oh wait...

[Spartan27]

Spain won't be denied because of these events, the Olympics are about money, what country, what venue can promise to produce the most money and the best Olympics, that's the whole reason why a country like China got the Olympics, and if China got the Olympics, than that means that Spain should certainly be eligible for them.

From what I know of Madrid, it would be great place to hold them, great city, good location, good weather. I personally would like to see them in Chicago, since that would be a great place as well, in the end I would bet it will be one of those two cities, either one would be a great place. Spain really shouldn't be excluded because of this, nor should it deter the IOC really almost at all, perhaps they get marked down a point.

[bradc]

An advertisement is basically like any other pictures, and mirrors reflection; dreams, desires and fears. Sure you can take as many pictures as you want because pictures are worth a thousands words. It still be recorded on your camera and other media devices. Or simply the person beside you and who you talked to.

Keep in mind, the picture that was taken was basically a messenger who slip up and it was supposed to be in Spain, whether it be the case of them hosting for the next Olympics we'll find out after the London Olympics in 2012.

When I joked about, "Who are you calling Slanty Eye?" I didn't find it offensive, I would be looking into a mirror reflection. Sure people do inappropriate things during other sport events, not just Spain. Are they entirely to blame? Of course not. There been other inappropriateness during the Beijing Games. A picture would be less offensive than if the person actually did in front of a large audience when media is watching.

So what do we do now? Continue to fuel the fire, or watch the games?


ETA: Any Asian ads or what you see in Japan are well, unheard of sort of speak...

[cornflakes]

I mean if a you made a joke about a friend, and the friend got upset, wouldn't you say you're sorry? I know that's what I do.
You have a point here, personally I would apologise for having offended that person (which in my mind is different from being sorry that I made the off-color joke).

But the problem here is when the friend himself (or herself) is not offended at all, but some relative of his cries foul and makes a big deal of it. Which is exactly what's happening here. The British are making a big deal of it, but it seems to me that most of the actual Chinese people on BA, as well as the mainland Chinese, couldn't care less (or even find it actively amusing).

[Spartan27]

You have a point here, personally I would apologise for having offended that person (which in my mind is different from being sorry that I made the off-color joke).

But the problem here is when the friend himself (or herself) is not offended at all, but some relative of his cries foul and makes a big deal of it. Which is exactly what's happening here. The British are making a big deal of it, but it seems to me that most of the actual Chinese people on BA, as well as the mainland Chinese, couldn't care less (or even find it actively amusing).

Well the Chinese booed the Spanish team so some of them are upset, but it is a bigger deal then I or the media have made it out to be. I think again the issue would have been resolved if there had a been an apology.

[bradc]

Put it this way, it was an advertisement blown into big proportion and most of everyone has heard about it and their country. Don't forget with the internet; words and pictures pretty much gets around fairly quickly. Western/US Media pretty much criticize for the Chinese nearly everything in the Olympics like its own version of American Idol; so we criticize Spain for the same thing.

Remember the Beautiful Girl who sang in the Beijing Ceremonies?

Remember its a large stadium most people wouldn't be able to hear themselves without lip-syncing. Western/US Media would have criticize the little girl being 1) Ugly 2) Too Young 3) No Talent, if they saw the second girl behind the voice during the ceremonies; continuous of judging people how they look, even the girls gymnastic team. China didn't single her out, they used her voice because that's her talent singing and that's how society works; we judge people on pretty much everything.

Taking the Spain picture, which China has done. What was the lesson from this? Has the Western/US Media learned its own lesson about what they claim to be China is still a backward society? It's a human right issues and so forth. China and Spain are no different, but it's the individual people who voice their opinion and how they feel about each other when they see something they like or don't like.

So Spain and few of their teams messed up, which they didn't intend to hurt others as they already said. But have you asked how they feel when they take the picture and their opinions about China and its people? Forgive but never forget the lesson... A friend is better than an enemy :D

[peca]

You know the hilarious thing about this. I asked my family and friends about these "pictures" and they have no idea what I am talking about and they laughed about the whole concept of "disrespect". My sister said " pffff, Estarian bromeando..." (they were just joking). End of the story. They are not aware in Spain of all this stuff. It is just our turn to be bashed for something (and "we" are not even aware of it), a scape goat. The entertainment that the NEWS has turned into. It disgusts me. I said once and I said it again, it all depends on the TAG of meaning you are giving to it. It was not mean spirited and it was naiive of them to do it, because they didn't mean anything disrespectful by it. OMG this is ridiculous.
Plus Spain has higher education level than the US and our economy is doing 100 times better than US. Just try to buy some euros with your weaken dollar now. We are not like CHINA in Civil Rights Violations. China was having problems with a lot of things, like selling toys to your children with Led paint. That causes problems in the brain, so I wonder... We don't skin dogs and cats alive and put them in cages, like some videos I've seen done over there.
here an assortment of them: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=China+abuse&search_type=&aq=f

[bradc]

So we're back to blaming China or was it Spain again?

Not everything is China fault, get a grip on reality. There's a thing call a zoo, where animals are put into cages and aquariums? Blame Canada for their Seals? Lions being killed in Africa by Vouchers? Japan for Whale hunting? Shark hunting when sharks aren't even attacking humans. They're re mostly done by small group of people, or individual peoples, where most of the people are not involved in said incidents. And what's normal in country is not normal for another. Is called cultural diversity.

Finger pointing one country is not going to solve the world's problems.

[aquavit]

I found what the Spanish basketball team was in poor taste and could be considered offensive not just by the Chinese but other Asians. What's remarkable is that it appears that the picture is being defended as just a joke and put forth as an example of people "bashing" Spain. The Spanish basketball team should not have agreed to do such an ad and once they realized that it is offensive, they should have apologized. Because they did not apologize, it became a controversy. Maybe we are more racially sensitive in the US, but I know I would be pissed if I found out our American athletes posed in such a fashion.

Off topic: I don't understand how a comparison of the US and Spanish economy and educational system has anything to do with the decision of an ad agency to ask the basketball team to pose in such a fashion. But a country that supposedly is wealthier and more educated than the US should understand and respect other ethnicities. And by the way, it was actually the Guardian that first reported on the ad before it was picked up by the other media outlets.

[Nejibana]

Edit: I forgot to mention the fact that slanted eyes are a stereotype printed on not only Chinese people, but Asians in general. So chances are that china wasnt the only country offended. My guess is that Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and countless other Asian countries were also offended.

Yeah I know it is a stereotype, but as I said most of the people thinks than in Spain almost everyone goes to watch bullfighting or do flamenco dance. And when we speak about Spain outside it it's like 'Oh, Spain! Paella and flamenco' and I don't get upset. I could be upset, it's sad to see that my region hasn't have any influence outside Spain but I understand why you think that because it's what you see about Spain.

I know that not all asian people are the same, actually I'm doing an english course with people from Japan, China, Korea... and I found them pretty different, but is an stereotype and you can't change people point of view in one day.

And one last thing... the Asian people we're not the ones that said that the photo was offensive, it was the british media. And of course we're not going to apologise to the british for something that we didn't do against them, if the asian people we're offended we'll apologise to them. But nobody has the right to tell us to apologise if they're not involved in the issue.

[cornflakes]

Plus Spain has higher education level than the US and our economy is doing 100 times better than US. Just try to buy some euros with your weaken dollar now. We are not like CHINA in Civil Rights Violations. China was having problems with a lot of things, like selling toys to your children with Led paint. That causes problems in the brain, so I wonder... We don't skin dogs and cats alive and put them in cages, like some videos I've seen done over there.
Heey now, don't be hatin' =( Speaking against the Chinese government is one thing, but disparaging the Chinese people as a whole is just silly. Please remember that the Chinese people are more often than not the victims of said crimes and violations, not the perpetrators. Somehow, somewhere along the line indignation about civil rights violations against the Chinese people phases effortlessly into Sinophobic rhetoric. Just who or what are you really against here?

I don't think the Spanish basketball team was being racist at all, but all that talk about skinning dogs and cats alive and lead paint in toys...... that's akin to saying Austrians are the spawn of Satan because of Hitler and that Austrian dude who imprisoned in daughter for years. Or citing Ted Bundy and wiping out the Native Americans as examples of the inherent savagery of Americans. Evidently, it doesn't matter that the majority of people in their respective societies have condemned and find these people/actions repellent.

Truly, lumping together "the Chinese" reeks of the Yellow Peril mentality that belongs in the nineteenth century, not the twenty-first. :notrust


/rant

[Spartan27]

This is so incredibly stupid now. How has this become a issue of the U.S vs. Spain vs. China? How in the world have we begun to talk about the economies and school systems of Spain and the U.S, how is China's human rights apart of this?

To the Spanish in here. I don't care if you think you're country is better, it's great that you have national pride, but it doesn't have any place in this discussion, nobody thinks that your country is some horrible racist entity that is destroying the olympics and mankind, all others are saying is that some of your athletes made a joke in bad taste, it was a stupid thing to do, it's not that big of a deal, all we are saying is that it would have probably been a good idea to apologize. It's not that hard, it isn't saying that you are less of a country, why do you insist that this isn't necessary? We aren't even saying that you need to apologize, or that your PM Zapatero needs to apologize, just somebody on the behalf of those involved.

Also as I said before the Spanish team was booed, it isn't just the British as you said, there was a population in China that were offended, it appears though that that these feelings didn't last very long at all.

Really there isn't much of a need to apologize now, for the most part in the eyes of most this is a non-issue now, but at the time it would have been prudent to just offer an apology and get over it.

[bradc]

People believe in different morality.

What be moral for one person be different for another... Is still a racial sensitivity for those never visited another country, or seen the rest of the world; talked to the person beside them. So it becomes a sensitive issue. IT IS still very much is a sensitive issue because of one's opinions from the things seen on the outside, but not looking into it from the inside. People are beautiful as well as ugly; it's just how the society is.

Why can't we all just get along?

Rather than arguing about who's right and wrong; which country is better than another, might as well enjoy the last few days of the games. ;)

[peca]

I hope we can all get along. I was just trying to encite some controversies and some new points of view. It did well and made everybody put their thoughts on the table. I enjoy debates and see other people's POVs. This have been great, but with some adrenaline rushes for sure :lmao. There is nothing better that using your noggin and cooked up some good theories and views.
It is all good. I don't hate anyone, but I find offensive other type of violations on human (genocide, like in Rwanda, etc) and animal rights of any kind (and I wasn't talking about ZOOs dummy, I was talking about putting like 12 dogs in a chicken coop looking cage of 1 feet tall and 4-5 feet wide and throw them from the top of a truck to the floor and same with cats and then peel their skins to make items with them, while they are still alive type thing). I just wanted to bring those up too (whether you thought they were relevant or not, I thought they are pretty connected to the general loss of humanity lately in this world of hours). We all seem pretty numb and disensotized (and I know the spelling on that word is wrong :rolleyes:).
Thanks

[ComeComeParadis]

lols...what I dont really understand is why people are arguing in the first place. :p

Nejibana-I understand that people have false misconceptions and stereotypes about Spain. But my point in writing that slanted eyes are a stereotype on Asians wasnt to say that Asians like myself are the only people that have stereotypes stamped on them. I'm well aware of the fact that Spanish people are incorrectly stereotyped as well. But I don't think that that's what we are talking about(?) --forgive me if that sounded offensive, that's really not my intent.

Stereotypes are wrong, but that's a different topic that you are more than welcome to start. Spain is a country rich in history and culture;There is more to Spanish culture than bull-riding and flamenco. It isnt right for people to ignorantly assume that that is what Spanish cutlure is all about, and I appreciate that you don't get upset when people don't understand that. :glomp
I could be upset, it's sad to see that my region hasn't have any influence outside Spain but I understand why you think that because it's what you see about Spain.

:huhuh What? I'm sorry...I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. :p sorry.

I know that not all asian people are the same, actually I'm doing an english course with people from Japan, China, Korea... and I found them pretty different, but is an stereotype and you can't change people point of view in one day.

lols, I know that a number of educated people like yourself understand that Asians are different. But that wasnt exactly the point that I was trying to convey. I was more like saying why some other non-Chinese people might have possibly been offended. But I agree that you can't change people's views in one day. :)

[Oona]

A blonde wig isn't suggestion anything towards a race or mocking them, it just is. Making a slanty eyed face is a rather obvious gesture to mock "slanty eyed" people because it just has that history.
Which history? That may be in America or other countries where Asians have dwelled for more than twenty years. In Spain, Asian and black people were tremendously exotic just fifteen years ago. I remember being shy in front of the first black man I saw, and somewhat scared of offending him by staring at him intently, but point was I wasn't being rude, it was that I had never seen a black man before. The Chinese started to arrive about five or six years before, and I looked at them with curiosity, for no other reason that I had never seen one before.

I am from Spain, and if there are jokes about Chinese people, it's only about how their restaurants can be so cheap (which includes nasty thoughts on the origins of the meat), but I assure you none of them is about the slanty eyes. As far as I remember, "slanty eyes" gesture in Spain means "I'm Chinese/Asian". In short, it's what children do to pretend they are Asian, there is no slur or insult or historical stuff into it. There can't be. The only Asians that historically lived in Spain were a bunch of Christian Japanese who arrived here in the XVII century, escaping from religious prosecution during the Sengoku Jidai. They stablished themselves in a town, where the surname "Japón" (meaning "Japan") still exists and is carried by their descendants. Of course, after three generations, all the Japons look Spanish. And that's the backstory of Asians in Spain until about twenty years ago. There is just no time, occasion or story for racist anti-Asian slurs, if only because good fences make good neighbours. There can't be, since the Asian population in Spain is minimal and arrived very recently (and has the higher acceptance rate of all foreigners, with the vast majority of Spaniards considering they are in general better citizens than most Spanish ourselves. I include myself into that).

That said, I must add this:

All the players must be brothers, because they share the second name IDIOT.

I mean, does the fact that they are sportmen leave them with no common sense whatsoever? They were asked to do the "slanty eyes" gesture by one of the photographers, and they just obeyed? Hello? Didn't some sort of atavic common sense tell them that it was going to be blown out of proportion? Didn't they expect the British gutter press to make carnage out of it?

As someone said before, those idiots are representing a country. I wish they had to take some classes on protocol before they go anywhere. They were naive and ignorant, sure, but such naiveté and ignorance is unpardonable when you go to the Olympic games. OK, the photograph was taken in Spain. OK, it's no racial slur, it's a gesture that is used just to "put an Asian face", it means nothing but "look, mommy, I'm Chinese". Still, they should know better. And even more than them, the journalists should know better. But the journalists live off making news (and they got to make this into news), and the players are representing a country.


If the history isn't there then it's just making a face. So it's not about the actual face made but more about making the face in spite of the history.
American history. There's such not history in Spain. I must ask Americans not to consider the rest of the world to be America, and not to take for granted that every country shares America's story. Please, understand that the world is NOT your country. As I said, there weren't any Asians in Spain until twenty years ago, and though I've heard stereotypes about Asians (most of them doing about them eating a lot of rice), this one about the slant eyes is just NOT a slur and does NOT have backstory about racism or whatever. I repeat: it just translates as "look at me, I'm Chinese".

It is wrong for the rest of the world to apply their standards of political correctness to the Spanish players withouth knowing their cultural background. But I must add, it's STUPID beyond measure for the Spanish players to not give a second thought about other people's culture.

I must add something about my country, maybe it will explain a few things. We are a very upbeat people (in general), we are extremely informal, and we have an inmense arrange of insults and swearwords. Our tolerance to profanity is probably the highest I know in any language, and horrendous compared to the standards of all other Spanish-speaking nations... and all other speaking nations that I know. You would never hear the f*** word beeped here. And what many Spaniards say when something goes wrong, has no parallel, and I mean, absolutely no parallel, in any other language. What Spaniards say about God or the Virgin Mary when you'd say just "shit" would scandalize most American ears to terror. We consider nothing too sacred or important or patriotic: everything can be criticised, insulted and blasphemed about. And it's normal. This may sound shocking to you, but it has to do with the 39 years of censorship during general Franco's dictatorship. We mock and insult and blaspheme about everything. I really mean everything, God, Jesus, the King, the flag, the country and everything can be mocked. Is racism too a serious issue to be mocked? Heh, not here. It is laughed of. Not because we're racist, it's just because nothing is too important not to be mocked (except women murders by their husbands, recently that's one of the few things the state doesn't let you joke about because it's fighting the problem). Plus, after 39 years of censorship, most people get the chills if someone even considers the possibility of trying to censor anything. People would rather hear horrible stuff about everything, than contemplate the possibility of censorship. In people's minds, that equates to bringing the dictatorship back.

In short: there is nothing serious enough as for Spanish to take it seriously. Everything can be taken informally, and everyone understands it as a joke.

Now, I have read and travelled, and I am perfectly aware that these traits of my culture are special and that you can't congratulate someone on a promotion by saying "you who**son, lucky you". But many others think that the world is just as informal and "don't call me Mr, call me by my name" as Spain. Sadly, if you are going to send a bunch of representatives to a place where education and politeness are tremendously important, you should explain a few things to them first. Something the like of, "the rest of the world is not Spain, and doesn't understand why you consider you have a right to blaspheme". I must repeat the "slanty eyes" is not an insult or racial slur, but if the players and the Spanish Olympic Commitee had had some brain cells, they should have considered the possibility of it being taken as such.

In short: those dorks thought the rest of the world thinks as Spain. Or better said, they didn't even consider the possibility of other people not thinking like them. Which, in a group that is meant as a kind of embassy, is an unforgivable mistake. If my country is going to spend millions in sending sportsmen to championships, they may well spend some more to teach them that the rest of the world isn't as informal as Spain. And a bit about the tremendous importance that East Asians give to politeness and good manners would have been handy in this situation. If I send people to Indonesia, I'd better tell them not to point at people's heads. If I send people to China, I'd better tell them about manners and politeness there. They are my ambassadors' for goodness sake.

Were the guys being racist? Hell, no. Was it uncalled for and stupid of everyone who participated? Hell, yes. Did it stain my country's image? Sure. Are many of us Spaniards pissed off by this? You bet.

Are the journalists of the British gutter press a buch of hypocrites? Yep, couldn't be worse. Whenever there's a football match with their national team involved, the Sun and the Daily Mirror continuously use jokes against the population of whatever country their team is facing. The fact that they dare accuse others of what they constantly do is unnerving. I could write a good essay about double standards here, but let's leave it at this. This got long enough.

Rather than arguing about who's right and wrong; which country is better than another, might as well enjoy the last few days of the games. ;)
Well, as a Spaniard I must add something to my compatriot who said that the educational system in Spain is better than the US'. It's not. It was extremely good, but about fourteen years ago, it was changed to a very bad one, which has produced a whole generation of functional illiterates. Admitting it hurts no one more than me, but that's how it is. Still, admitting our present educational system is trash, is not half as painful as the fact that it is trash, and our new generations can't read properly. Ugh.

People believe in different morality.
Yes, problem is, the rest of the world doesn't have to understand the Spaniards' informality towards everything. I am Spaniard and I love that of my country, but heck, I know I can't carry that outside. In my country, you can piss on the national flag (not that I want to do it since I have better things to do, but I could burn it or desecrate it or whatever if I wanted to). Well, there's always some asshole compatriot of mine who goes to a more patriotic country and finds himself arrested for not treating the flag with respect. And then it's all cries of "Why, oh, why? It's just a piece of cloth!!" Well, you dork, why on Earth did you think that what you can do at your home can be done all over the world? This recklessness of some people when going to other countries just pisses me off. Common sense should tell you to get informed about other people's customs, bans and beliefs, before getting out of your country. However, there's always the idiot who thinks buying a travel guide is beneath them. Like:

-OhmyGod, I'm gay/lesbian and got into jail because I kissed my boy/girlfriend in (Insert country where homosexuality is a crime)! Why, oh, why! -
-OhmyGod, we made love in a Dubai beach and we got arrested! Why, oh, why!
-OhmyGod, I took my veil off to put lipstick in Saudi Arabia and got arrested! Why, oh, why!

Heck, because not every country in the world is like yours?

I am Spaniard and I wish my national basket team hadn't done that stupidity. In their discharge, I can only say that they were absolutely ignorant of the reaction awaiting, since the gesture isn't offensive here (I repeat, it just means "I'm Chinese". But heck, if my country pays taxes money to those people to represent me, that damned gesture made the expenditure almost a waste, if not something worse. If I pay those guys to be an embassy, I want them to be a proper embassy, and not a shame. If they were ignorant of the possible consequences of the photograph, it's still nasty ignorance in country representatives.

And, I also think the educational system has nothing to do with the topic. I think that, more in tune with the topic, is the fact that the players didn't even consider the possibility of that gesture meaning something other than "I'm Chinese" to other cultures. Why, oh, why, do people think every country is like theirs? We aren't that globalized yet.

[coldjava]

Lol, I actually found this funny :D I have "slanted eyes", but i'm not offended :XD I laughed, but when I heard the news started going crazy, I was shaking my head.

I know some people found it offensive, but they must have gotten over it the next week, right?

But, when they were making it into a whole controversy for 1 week, I came down to the thought that people have lost their humor :(

:offtopic
Plus Spain has higher education level than the US and our economy is doing 100 times better than US. Just try to buy some euros with your weaken dollar now. We are not like CHINA in Civil Rights Violations. China was having problems with a lot of things, like selling toys to your children with Led paint. That causes problems in the brain, so I wonder... We don't skin dogs and cats alive and put them in cages, like some videos I've seen done over there.

Oo...ouch dude. I for one, think that the US and other countries should stop buying from China because of those reasons, but, please, don't go bashin' them overall :)
And the whole Skinning Dogs and Cats is considered normal over there, while we think it's disgusting (which I do, but I resepct that), but they might consider a certain dish over here, disgusting over there. So, it's just a cycle I suppose.

Back on Topic

So, once again, I personally thought it was funny since most asians do have chinky eyes, so, in my idea, I don't think people should be offended by what's true, right? But that's my idealology, so just ignore this line :XD

And for people who making a big deal out of this silly joke (which i'm kinda like...wondering why?) It was just a bunch of guys, who were just making a joke. And if they meant it to mock the asian peeps, well -shrug- people should just ignore them, for we would be giving them what they want, attention.

And this is coming from an Asian herself ;)

[Oona]

Lol, I actually found this funny :D I have "slanted eyes", but i'm not offended :XD I laughed, but when I heard the news started going crazy, I was shaking my head.
Well, as a Spaniard, I assure you the "slanted eyes" gesture isn't a joke, by no means. It's what people (specially children) do to pretend they're Chinese (and in this case, Chinese means "generic for South-East Asian"). From what I've read in Spanish papers, the photographers wanted to take a picture that somewhat showed the fact the players were going to China. And in an amazingly unprecedented attempt at originality, with an impressive, daring, never-before-seen-in-print display of wild imagination (ironic mode exploding), they asked the players to do the slanted eyes gesture. Because it means "I'm Chinese".

Urgh. The stupidity. It just drives me crazy, honestly.

I know someone suggested the photographers might have asked for the "bow" gesture instead. Sad thing is, many of the oldest people in my country wouldn't have gotten that. As I wrote in my previous post, I didn't see an Asian person in real life until my thirteenth year, and I live in a moderately big city. People in towns must have taken longer. My point with this is, in Spain many people don't know enough about Asians as to get the meaning of the bow. That's probably why the photographers went the easy way and asked for the "slant eyes" gesture. That's probably the one everyone would understand... here in Spain, dammit, and only here in Spain. But then again, it was stupid, stupid, stupid, specially for the photographers, not to foresee that the gesture could be taken as an insult, despite it isn't. Hey, the Japanese gesture for "ganbatte" is a great insult in my country. But I never saw a Japanese doing it in front of Spaniards. They probably have a look at a travel guide before going to a country with a totally different culture. A little effort my compatriots didn't make. The dorks.

And for people who making a big deal out of this silly joke (which i'm kinda like...wondering why?) It was just a bunch of guys, who were just making a joke.
Ouch. That hurt. Not what you said, but the truth it implies. If you thought it was a joke and chose to take it lightly, that means most Asians also thought it was a joke... and they were probably offended.

You know what hurts? The most painful thing of this all, seen from the Spanish point of view, is that it wasn't a joke. The "slanted eyes" gesture is not meant to be funny or demeaning or insulting in absolutely no way whatsoever, it just means "I'm pretending to be Chinese". I don't know if Asians find it offensive (maybe you do), but at least I know it doesn't have that intention or implication. It'd be like wearing a blonde wig to pretend you're German. I don't know if a German would be offended, but that's just not the idea. The saddest thing of it all is the über-idiots of the team really did not meant offense, and really did believe no one was going to be offended.

Really, it gets on my nerves. A country goes to the Olympic games to give a certain image. If you crash it because of sheer lack of knowledge of how the world works, you're just wasting the money invested. And heck, that stuff is paid with my taxes money. If those idiots are meant to be an embassy, they ought to know that the gesture could mean something offensive out of Spain.

[lilsakura]

I think it's very understandable that the Chinese were offended. It's very hurtful to a lot of people and once a gesture like that is made, it shows lack of respect, racist tendencies (which is just disgusting...) and also a lack of sportsmanship. And Oona-san, this kind of stupidity really is disgusting and unbelievable because that's exactly what it is, a show of stupidity. Racism itself is disgusting.

[Oona]

I think it's very understandable that the Chinese were offended. It's very hurtful to a lot of people and once a gesture like that is made, it shows lack of respect, racist tendencies (which is just disgusting...) and also a lack of sportsmanship. And Oona-san, this kind of stupidity really is disgusting and unbelievable because that's exactly what it is, a show of stupidity. Racism itself is disgusting.
I must add that it has nothing to do with racism. It's not even meant to be funny, a joke or an insult, and certainly it's not disrespectful... Not in Spain, at least. But as I said before, the rest of the world is not Spain and doesn't have to understand it. And then again, the people in charge of diplomacy in my country owed an explanation of what the gesture means in Spain, so people out understood that no offense was meant. And an apology was owed to whoever had felt offended, just in case, though I hope the explanation should be enough, and anyway apologizing is the right thing to do. But I guess asking the Spanish Olympic Committee and the Spanish diplomacy to do something right is asking too much. If we weren't in the NATO already, we'd have been invaded five times, because our diplomats suck.

These cultural misunderstandings shouldn't happen in certain spheres. For example, the Japanese make a gesture when they mean they are going to work their hardest: it's raising the fist of one of your arms, and putting the other hand in the inside of the elbow of the raised arm. It is extremely similar to an extremely rude Spanish gesture which means "f*** off" (one of those weird coincidences of life). The difference is, I don't see the Japanese being stupid enough to use that gesture in Spain. And if they had, I bet my right hand they would have apologized thirty seconds after realizing they had done something wrong. So, in the "slant eyes" case, even if it's a huge misunderstanding, the people in charge ought to have explained it and apologized. The players should not be uncultivated dorks (not that I like it, since as I said, they are ambassadors of a sort), but even if they are, the Spanish Olympic Committee and Spanish diplomacy have NO excuse not to give explanations.

In short: I'm just as pissed off as many Asians must be. Those guys also insulted me.

[bradc]

Is an Olympic Game...

Showing politeness when entering another country should be respected, as it is same as obeying the laws. Even if you are Prime Minister of another country, if one were invited to the game and not showing up; it means you are not representing your COUNTRY and giving your country a BAD NAME. People in amateur sport represent their COUNTRY.

Every country have different culture and customs. One should respect that.

[lilsakura]

I must add that it has nothing to do with racism. It's not even meant to be funny, a joke or an insult, and certainly it's not disrespectful... Not in Spain, at least. But as I said before, the rest of the world is not Spain and doesn't have to understand it. And then again, the people in charge of diplomacy in my country owed an explanation of what the gesture means in Spain, so people out understood that no offense was meant. And an apology was owed to whoever had felt offended, just in case, though I hope the explanation should be enough, and anyway apologizing is the right thing to do. But I guess asking the Spanish Olympic Committee and the Spanish diplomacy to do something right is asking too much. If we weren't in the NATO already, we'd have been invaded five times, because our diplomats suck.

These cultural misunderstandings shouldn't happen in certain spheres. For example, the Japanese make a gesture when they mean they are going to work their hardest: it's raising the fist of one of your arms, and putting the other hand in the inside of the elbow of the raised arm. It is extremely similar to an extremely rude Spanish gesture which means "f*** off" (one of those weird coincidences of life). The difference is, I don't see the Japanese being stupid enough to use that gesture in Spain. And if they had, I bet my right hand they would have apologized thirty seconds after realizing they had done something wrong. So, in the "slant eyes" case, even if it's a huge misunderstanding, the people in charge ought to have explained it and apologized. The players should not be uncultivated dorks (not that I like it, since as I said, they are ambassadors of a sort), but even if they are, the Spanish Olympic Committee and Spanish diplomacy have NO excuse not to give explanations.

In short: I'm just as pissed off as many Asians must be. Those guys also insulted me.

Alright, let's say for a minute that I believe no disrespect was intended. Surely it was meant to intimidate and show vigorous suport for the Spanish team. And that the team was just following through with what they were told to do, which also frankly astounds me because they should have more sense than that but it doesn't change that they are completely and entirely in the wrong. And even if they just wanted to intimidate, it's still no excuse to use racial gestures. I don't understand how anyone could not take any offense to that. Sportsmanship is very important. I'm not saying one can't boo or whatever at the Chinese team. That's warranted when you're dealing with the opposing team but to call out racist slurs is too much and it's both very naive and very dim-witted to not realize what these action/words imply to the opposing team.

[negativzero]

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

To be the slightest bit ignorant or to not even bother with the customs of another country you are going to represent yourselves in, is tantamount to stirring a big bucket of shit. Its simple courtesy to know your surroundings and the culture you are going to face.

To simply brush this off as a joke or unintentional gesture just shows how much disrespect you have for another country or culture.

[Oona]

Alright, let's say for a minute that I believe no disrespect was intended. Surely it was meant to intimidate and show vigorous suport for the Spanish team.
Erm... no, the gesture doesn't mean to be intimidating. I repeat, it just translates as "I'm Asian", it's the equivalent of wearing a blond wig to pretend to be German. It was uncalled for, stupid and ignorant, and an apology should have been issued, but it was NOT meant to be intimidating. It's not racist, either. I didn't even show support for the Spanish team: one of the photographers for the sponsors wanted to show the team was being sent to China, and couldn't think of something more original than that. Stupid, ignorant and uncalled for, it was. Racist or meant to intimidate, it was not.

And that the team was just following through with what they were told to do, which also frankly astounds me because they should have more sense than that
That's absolutely correct. I mean, when I go to another country, I buy a travel guide and look at what is considered unpolite out of the frontiers of Spain. Those dorks of the basketball team were shamefully ignorant of any rule of politeness. Even if I know there was no pun, joke, intimidation, racism nor insult intended, I feel insulted by what you mentioned: their immense lack of common sense. They should have seen this coming.

but it doesn't change that they are completely and entirely in the wrong.
Exactly. I guess the idiots thought the image would never be seen out of Spain.
I'm not saying one can't boo or whatever at the Chinese team.
I think even that is wrong.

That's warranted when you're dealing with the opposing team but to call out racist slurs is too much
It wasn't a racist slur. It was stupid, ignorant, uncalled-for, ridiculous and made no sense. But I repeat, it was by no means a racist slur. Still, I perfectly understand that some people felt insulted, and that an explanation and an apology were due.

and it's both very naive and very dim-witted to not realize what these action/words imply to the opposing team.
Now, that is totally true. I, as a Spaniard, don't like it when everyone takes for granted I should be undisciplined, passionate, and an expert flamenco dancer. I hate stereotypes as much as you. So I perfectly understand that some people could be offended by the gesture, and that the basket team members were... well, you said it: very naive and very dim-witted. I am really sorry that this happened, because it's obvious that many people felt offended. I wonder why the guys in the basket team didn't thought of an instrument called "travel guide". Those little books usually explain what you should do and not do out of your home country. It is royally insulting for everyone implied (Spaniards included) that those dorks didn't even bother.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
The photograph was taken in Spain and meant for the Spanish public, who would understand the gesture isn't insulting. Where the photograph was taken, it has no offensive meaning at all, and it was the British press who took it out of context to be able to launch the racist smears. Still, once the image was taken out of context, an explanation and an apology were due, and none of those were given. That is infuriating indeed.

[bradc]

Trying to backpedal out of this one is impossible...

Consider there were two other pictures of same gestures done by the Spain Woman Basketball and Tennis Team. Consider, most of don't know what that gestures mean, it can be taken into context as 1) offensive, 2) racial slur 3) bad joke. What does the gesture mean? Anyone care to explain what it means? I certainly don't know what the "slanting eye" gesture mean than seeing it as something ignorant and mean. Racism is blind.

[Unicorn]

Right tensions are getting high here. Could everyone else please calm down.

Oona has explained pretty clearly what the Spanish point of view is, and acknowledged that it was uncalled for especially on an International stage.

However, Oona is not a member of the sporting team that made those gestures.
...

Back on topic. I believe that everyone now knows that these gestures are not appropriate on an International stage. If it happens again at the next Olympics, by any team, I would be disappointed.

btw... which country is hosting the next Olympics?

[speedphantom]

London 2012! Did you not watch the closing ceremony and see Jimmy Page rock the house with Whole Lotta Love?!?!??!:XD!

The "situation" that I can interpret from reading the article and what everyone has said is that the photographers were telling the team to pose like that and they probably thought it was silly and or whatever but innocently played along and then the media takes it and does what they do best in blowing things out of proportion. It is a stupid thing for the photographers to have asked for that sorta pose and the people who published the photos not to realise how it could be read wrongly.

[lilsakura]

Oona-san: I apologize if you took any offense to any of the comments I may have made but I can't take back what I said about it being common sense. Sure they might have played along innocently but even someone as young as myself, a teen, knows better than that. I'm sure it was just a mistake and just something they figured would go over lightly but still, they should know better. This is common knowledge everywhere that you shouldn't treat people that way and honestly, I don't believe it was just meant to point out they're asain. No one slants their eyes to point out the other person's ethnic background. It's meant to try to at least stir emotions or throw them off their game or some other thing. It may not be anything that I specifically named but I know for a fact that it's not to say, 'hey, you asain person.' Also, I doubt someone would wear a blonde wig to point out someone is German. They would wear it to infuriate someone who's German or someone who's blonde. Also, bradc is entirely right. You can try to defend the Spanish team's position as much as you want and you may be right, that it was simply foolishness and naivete that drove the team but you can't make excuses for any of the others.


Also, I feel like I should back track a little. It's inexcusable no matter who the person in question is. This is more of a general statement. Actually, all of it is pretty general. So, Oona-san I don't blame you for trying to defend them because obviously you have national pride just like every other person, but I sya this not only in regards to the behavior of the people in the article but also other people as well. It's not acceptable and there's no point saying they meant no offense. Maybe they didn't mean it racially but it was meant to hurt. To say otherwise is being blinded yourself. I would never wear a blonde wig just for the heck of it. It would be meant to make someone react. That's normal. It's terrible but it's normal. I just think it's petty and this sort of childisness annoys me so I get very passionate about it. It's not only in regards to the article but to this kind of stuff in general.