Petrol Woes whats the problem

[mechaqua]

We Know that Petrol prices are outrageously high in the US over 4.00 a gallon, Whats the cause? What can be done Hybrids Tapping into untapped oil fields generating alternative fuels, Mass Transportation? I notice that Comparing the petrol prices in the US, and Europe and Canada there is huge difference in prices (noting that Canada has a huge oil supply) i can't afford Petrol in the US and there is mass transportation, Bush seems to be vetoing every plan, Congress throws

i go to School in the US I sometimes live in the US its costing me 700 dollars to get from Chicago to Toronto. its out outrageous how the airlines are making us pay more for things we don't need i can't afford to drive and Amtrak sucks with time,

What is the cause? Many argue Speculation there is worries that the middle east oil supply is becoming depleted, so what do they do the OPEC the Oil Companies drive the prices up, this is one theory

[speedphantom]

People have known about this issue for quite a while. It's called the peak oil crisis, so sometime during the 70's it was believed that oil extraction from the earth was at an all time high and we reached the stage where demand equals supply. But now demand is easily exceeding supply so the oil companies being greedy bastards as all business people are, bump up the prices.

Hmm I don't know about the US, but just in general......the global oil reserves are running out quickly, we don't really know when we'll run out but within the next 50 years I think.

70% of the world's remaining oil reserves are found in the Middle East so anyone who believes that bastard Bush is waging war for justice and peace and other bullshit is very sorely mistaken. He's trying to secure the oil for America's future but the fact is everyone's going to run out someday and that's when we'll need to find some new fuel and technology to replace it.

[moonflowers]

@ speedphantom: Hit the bullseye on the mark with the peak oil deal. :)

Just to clarify, the peak oil theory was first tested in the 1970's to predict when Texas oil in the US would peak and then run out, and sure enough the theory held up. There were estimates that we hit peak at 2004 from a few years ago, but these were over a 20+ year range, so there's some room for a couple years' error. Either way, we're probably at or beyond the peak like speedy said.

The funny part about oil supply is that there will always be some oil left on earth - the question is how you're going to get it out. What's running out now is the easy-to-get, high-quality stuff; there's plenty of crappy or hard-to-reach oil out there, but if the economic cost of having to get the stuff out is more than the price it would fetch, nobody will do it. Getting oil out is far more difficult than just sticking a rig in the ground and pumping it, and as we're hitting the limits of our current technology, it's only going to get more expensive to get it out.

[speedphantom]

Mmm mmm:uhuh

So sometime in the future there's going to be a greasy social class of oil bastards, only the richest, clinging to their cars:hm

While the rest of us will going around in...........electric cars:lmaothat's if we can make everything else apart from the fuel itself TT.

I don't think many people realise that oil makes plastic products, not just petrol. So no plastic means no nothing pretty much so I do wonder what will become of everything from then on.

[Shdo]

well, with china and india racing towards greater personal consumption, the world resources get thinner, you can see it in food prices and so on. frankly there are too many humans in this little world for our tech to take care of them all.

in other words...keep working on that fusion thing.
we need ze energy!ze power! itz insufficent!

when solar, geo, and fusion energy will become more reliable we will have ze chance to throw away the petrol. down with the petrol!

invest in alternative fuels.

[melboyd~]

the increase in petrol prices is taking its toll on us (e.g. i need to be veerrryy stingy with my destination and the route that i'm taking..and of course less driving time T_T. i love to drive around. well of course that's not a big deal xD).

one solution that some countries have implemented so far is the use of natural gas. i believe it's more cheaper and energy efficient. i cant wait for it to be fully used in my country (it has, but only in the capital city). but then, the motor companies need to produce vehicles that use natural gas and stop producing vehicles that use petrol and diesel. but again, that will cause them to suffer financial loss for the rest of the petrol/diesel vehicles that havent been sold.

i still root for the use of natural gas cars even if it'll take years for them to finally be sold here >.<. and all the way for alternative fuel too.

@speed; regarding the plastic issue lol. *starts staring at her laptop, telephone and scanner* err, i wonder what will replace the usage of plastic in the future :lmao

[Shdo]

i understand that gas is also not a very reliable source, its just replacing one resource with another when they BOTH running out.

[Rain]

speed hit the nail on the head i think

i think its partially because the kiddle east hates bush, so they will charge a higher price (they know we can and are willing to pay it) and then the oil companies still want a profit, so they will charge even more than that

speed- that would be nice if we could still buy electric cars, from what i ave heard and noticed you can't buy them in the US anyore;)

but at the speed the world is using oil, regardless of opinion there is no avoiding large increases in price, its just short temporary fixes that may slightly lower it. Damn free market economy:p

[melboyd~]

shdo; yeah, notice that. that's an alternative way to have cheaper energy source to run cars for now ^^

[Shdo]

it got nothing to do with bush, the gulf states dont give a damn about iraq (who invaded one of them and threatened the rest, the first gulf war was to protect kuwatian, gulf and saudi oil and not for humeniterian reasons) and the answer to the rise is simple as hell.

if you have a massive batch of oil, its easier to suck the upper levels then the lower levels, as the reserve getting lower it takes more energy and not less to draw the same amount so even if the oil field keep pumping the same amount of oil it still cost more to draw it and in order to keep the buisness rolling there must be a increase in prices. so unless someone will find several oil wells that are easy to reach then you can only expect the prices to go MUCH higher.

and you will live with it. here we pay 6.20 shekel per liter. that is almost 2 dollar per LITER, so you see...you still got a long way until it will be 'devastating'

also, look at this as the earth saying to stop using cars and use more busses. will make the world more healty and is cheaper.

[mechaqua]

Though most of the Reserves are in the middle east as potential oil goes (this is oil that is not be utilized or haven't been "harvested") There is a lot of oil left in Canada, and the Gulf of Mexico and they just found a huge oil field in North Dakota and Montana environmental problem some in not only would it destroy the environment but also its hard to access the supply in Canada is in the North were winter is ten times worse then any other replace the same goes with Dakota an Montana I personally think More hybrid cars or alternative fuels like Hydrogen cells would elevate the US's problem, I also believe better mass transportation system a high speed train would be great the US has one but only goes from DC to Boston if it could be implemented across the country and there were more train stops i think that would help (also if Amtrak had its own tracks instead of renting) I mean the Congress of the US just gave 16 billion dollars to Amtrak for the purpose that Amtrak could elevate travel problems bush has vetoed the bill but its got a majority that it can be overturn. I know a lot of people blame the congress for the petrol woes but if bush would stop vetoing everything, because congress happens to be under democratic control, something might be done A summer gas holiday would have an economic backlash of epic proportions if 4.00 is expensive, i cringe to think of 6.50 to 7.00 prices but its better then allowing the gas companies to get tax breaks while Halibuton Exxon Mobile, BP, and others make billions a month maybe even a week

[Shdo]

the problem is that it dosnt matter how much fuel you got in reserve, the rate in which you drain it is limited. look at this as the economic system in some RTS, there is a limit to how much you can take from one oil field in every given time. the problem is that we passed that and with that 3000$ car the indians are making you are going to see a massive increase in demend and therefor prices. depending on such a fleeing resource such as petrol or gas is only to get yourself dead in the water.

finding more oil for fuel will only lengthen the whole dependancy on petrol, its like they worked on water based car in the previous century but closed it because it was easier to say that the oil will last for another 50 years...well, look where that brought us to.

[bradc]

the problem is that it dosnt matter how much fuel you got in reserve, the rate in which you drain it is limited. look at this as the economic system in some RTS, there is a limit to how much you can take from one oil field in every given time. the problem is that we passed that and with that 3000$ car the indians are making you are going to see a massive increase in demend and therefor prices. depending on such a fleeing resource such as petrol or gas is only to get yourself dead in the water.

finding more oil for fuel will only lengthen the whole dependancy on petrol, its like they worked on water based car in the previous century but closed it because it was easier to say that the oil will last for another 50 years...well, look where that brought us to.


Technically when you drill an oil hole of black gold. Once you started it or the hole have been dug, you have to keep it going and when it stops, no one knows. There is still plenty of oil left for the world to use... Another source of oil are cooking oil use for frying... Known as Biodiseal is known to be fuel efficient if you watch the show Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe.

Is more economic problem with the oil companies against the world causing a global inflation due to greed and causing an economic instability. While no matter what we continue to find other resources, the resources are already available around us; when places are surrounded by volcanoes and rich grounds are all over the world that have never been touch or harvested at all.

[cornflakes]

I think we can all agree that fossil fuels won't last indefinitely...... but what can we do to delay it?

One word: money. Money is a prime mover in our capitalist society. Appealling to humanitarian, environmental instincts or civic duty may get some people, but not the majority.

The case here in my country amply demonstrates the case. Traffic jams are a huge problem in our cities-- we get huge traffic jams because everyone has one car. In a traffic jam, if you look into the other cars most of them probably have only one person inside. Despite long-running government appeals to carpool and half-hearted subsidies of public transport, people are still buying cars-- and using petrol.

When the government cut back fuel subsidies last month, petrol prices rose from $1.92 to $2.70 overnight. The immediate noticable result is that suddenly, the highways aren't so congested anymore, there were reports of cars on a highway in rush hour being 15-20% less. And people were suddenly carpooling to work. Biker gangs who used to hold illegal street races at night vanished. Why? Money. They realised that it was going to be expensive, and thus acted accordingly.

I propose a two-prong approach-- lift petrol subsidies-- indeed, place further levies on petrol. But it mustn't only be that. People might grouch, but if it's going to happen in ten years, might as well do it now and get something out of it. At the same time, the government should also, aided by the money that would have been spent subsidising traffic jams, invest heavily in public transport. In the capital of my country now, public buses are for the most part still unreliable, and rival bus companies ply certain routes in the city centre with their shabby, petrol-guzzling old buses, which are (speaking from daily experience) crowded, grimy and uncomfortable. This is not an ideal situation to encourage the people to use public transportation. The best bus company should be awarded monopolies of either either bus routes or even networks. This way, the public will have a viable, attractive alternative to getting and driving their own cars.


Whew.... stop press. I think I am going off-topic. :o

[Shdo]

i preffer civic transportation myself, cheaper and if more people would have think like me it would have been much faster.

there are cities with entire lanes only for busses, this makes the busses a vastly improved alternative to cars.

[emoloz]

Some of these are really difficult to harvest i saw something on the news saying that some places it takes a lot of time and effort to get the oil out of the ground because its like really deep set. This would also be a huge cost because it takes a lot of time. Most of it is companies greed. Most are earning billions in profit and they continue to do so. Most of its just greed but i kinda see there point, oils damaging the planet we need to find something better.

They can get bio fuel out of there heads as well because thats just using rice and pasta which of course two of the most mass produced food ever and thats why those 2 food products have become slightly more expensive in the inflation rates than other foods because there trying to make Biofuel with it.

Bah i watch the news too much xD

[Syn]

Yes, most places are really nearly impossible to harvest, and that's it.

There are several reasons behind the high price of the fuel. Ready to hear them? ;)
-First, of course, there is a lot of demand, from all the countries, especially from China and India who simply need it to develop more
-Second, it's simply the market, as in Wall Street, etc. What's happening right now is that people fear the inflation in the US, thus the $ is worth shit (like, seriously, jeez). So, people who usually invested in the $ back off and prefer... raw material. And which raw material will assure a great benefice? Yup, petrol.
-still in Wall Street and all, people look at any bad indicator for the compagnies... and let me tell you, even when the compagny is doing FINE and even BETTER than what they expect, since this is a crisis situation, people fear it'll do bad in the next semester... thus report their investments on raw materials.
-natural gas: not an option, it's running out too, as speed pointed out
-alternative fuels: mostly not so good, because with the crisis, countries need the food to feed their population first. Also, you should know that in the US, to produce 1 liter of ethanol, they use 1 liter of... petrol :cookie
-on top of that, petrol compagnies as Shell, Total etc, sell their petrol at the price they're buying it right now, although they're using stocks from months ago, when the petrol was cheaper (enjoy :D).

It sucks and the only true way is to develop a new method for cars; using a an hydrogen pile could help, but the truth is that ecologically speaking it's as bad as the fuel we use right now, simply because if we don't pollute while using those cars, the way it's made does pollute way too much.

[kiera2]

Recent BBC article with some good explanations of reasons for high oil prices - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7469124.stm - also more here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7425489.stm) and some history here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7083015.stm).

Personally I ride a bike everywhere, or use public transport if I have to go out of town, so I'm not too fussed about oil prices :p