Hip-Hop and Rap Today?

[Ryuzaki]

What do you guys think of Hip-Hop and Rap today?

Do you like the way its flowing, if you like today's music or in the direction it's going in, what do you like about it? Are some of you as upset as I am that we can't even hold decent discussions or explore themes about songs in today's rap culture?

There used to be time where you could easily break apart lyrics from rappers like Run DMC, Tupac, Eminem and learn something useful to daily life from it. I feel as though nowadays, things are or have gone down the drain. I'm not really a firm believer within how music is being made out to be all club hits. Either that or I'm just not looking hard enough, because frankly, I've listened to every Joe Buddens Mood Muzik and I still can't find any album worth listening to on the market.

[speedphantom]

I'm not a particularly big fan of rap but I used to like it and I do think that some rap is good. I definitely agree on the content and the nature of the songs. All about violence, drugs, girls, sex, partying and the actual music itself isn't really music to me.

Lyrics is the most important thing in music, the song has to mean something. I mean it's awfully judgemental to say that songs about violence, drugs, girls, sex and partying aren't good and it is subjective but I just think its rubbish.

The average music listener who just listens to the radio just takes whatever they're given and they'll like anything. The music industry has changed from people making their own music to express themselves to just selling CD's or even worse, crappy mp3s. The "artists" if half of them can be called that nowadays, just want to be commercially successful over saying what they think and expressing themselves.

That's just my view on things though.

[HELLA PINOY]

Ugh. Dont get me started on the commercialization of hip hop. (I got a whole thread about it in the debate section)

Good hip hop is still out there...you just have to look. The Roots, Common, Talib Kweli, KanYe West (Im 50/50 with him), Wyclef Jean are all great hip hop artists with great flow and lyricism (sp?)

The thing is all the bull$h!t nursery rhyme rap you hear is from people watching MTV, BET all day and that god awful Lollipop song 40,000,000,000,000,000 times on the radio each day, and thats why little white kids from the suburbs listen to it.

[zerosquad]

Ugh. Dont get me started on the commercialization of hip hop..

Warning this might be long. :eek:

I agree with some of your points. I was a Hip Hop producer, in the vein of J Dilla, Madlib, Kweli, Common type stuff. Listen to alot of MF Doom etc. I'm a young guy that loves alot of old music. Wayne Shorter, Bill Evans, Bird, Eric Dolphy, etc.

Comparisions will be between Hip-Hop and Jazz, and the cultural *brotherhood* and unspoken codes of conduct that held together the artistic integrity of the music. Jazz has one of the longest streaks of pure innovation after another for atleast 60 years. (in US). There's something we can learn from that.

And I'm saying it's the culture of the musicians that the music that enabled those innovations to happen. They viewed individuality, respect for the elder statesmen, innovation, and etc of high importance. And this became important by it STARTING somewhere, then having conscious individuals maintain those ideals for each new generation.

That is dying with Rap. When the foundation destabilizes, the building crumbles.

Elaborating on the Jazz side. It is outdated as far as *celebrity relations* go. But it is something interesting to look at. *Jazz stars* from 30's-70's lived in the hood. Bud Powell and Sonny Rollins used to go to Thelonious Monk's house and play piano, talk music, world, philosophy and etc. The legendary Birth Of The Cool sessions started in Gil Evans apartment. The *stars* of the day were connected to each other, and they also was connected the ground level of people trying to do what they are now doing. People like John Coltrane was on the rise and learning from the masters that was already playing the music professionally.

Now to Hip-Hop as I've seen with my own eyes and experiences.

I worked as a Mix Engineer, Producer and Session Keyboardist with the *ground level* <-- no record label, no millions of dollars, just regular joes. Trying to live their honest dream.

What I saw was not a service to the music. What is *service* to the music?

I'd think it's a bit more care than rushing into the studio, artists half drunk and high, lyrics all crumpled up, no time for me the Engineer to read the lyrics, no talk on concepts, or ARRANGEMENT, just assume it's always, intro, hook verse hook. I just got to record the guys, and yea of course the artist don't have anything memorized. And lets not talk about when I was producing my own stuff in my little corner so to speak, how many times I was told to listen to the radio for that new Artist Z single and make something that sounds like that.


It is simply using the music as a means to make alot of money. Songs had no *care* to bring something unique and interesting to the table. Partly this is the case because this is the example set forth, and it's a glorified example as well. I'm not a rapper I'm a hustler. This attitude is poison. I hustle music. :(

Because in some cases what they see is *Artist X* got big off his new single *I DO DA DIRT, HO's GOT MY WORK*. So that's what is emulated. This is all they are *exposed* to musically and idealistically concerning their music. And of course if Group Think has these ideas and conceptions of *how this music should be done* then there isn't too much that the denominator can do to oppose it.

I think what we're seeing also is an adjustment to how we will deal with the new cycles for music. In the Jazz age, when Charlie Parker was coming up, he learned Lester Young solos from the radio, Buster Smith and etc, and more importantly had time to disect their styles and practice these things till they were internalized. He put in approx 11-15hrs on the horn a day for a period of 3 years in Kansas City. All to develop his own sound. It was understood not to come out the gate sounding like someone else.

But you had to learn someone elses style b4 you had enough tools to create your own sound. :D That is the missing creative link in rap. You're not doing it because Producer X's style is what is KILLIN the radio today.

Bird didn't have a myspace to go post himself copying Lester Young solos. As we know in Hip Hop. *BITIN'* is bad. But nobody tells you why it is, except for the egotistical rant of DO YOU, IMMA DO ME, YOU TRYIN TO BE ME?? That level of egotism is based in a false sense of pride and boosting yourself up to feel as though you're important enough to be copied.

Again towards that artificial high..

Sounds like Nnoitra doesn't it?

Which all ties in with the Rap *subconscious* of being (im sure you heard these words b4). KING, THE DON, THAT N, or for the ladies BOSS B**** :headscratch This IMO stems out of a twisted ideal that worked it's way in Rap music signifying that there only can be one which appeals to the basic instinct of ruling.

As we know that level of egotism destroys all contribution that can be given through the gift of music. "Music" becomes a tool for one to beef up their Alpha Male image and dominate all the other b****es.
Radio/TV appeals to the lowest common denominator. Imagine a indiscrimitory net being cast out over the country pulling in whales, squid, blow fish and the like. And all of them have one thing in common.

They like water. LOL. This is how Radio governs itself. Hey they like to dance? Well lets get to playin dance jams. Simple. But because they govern like that, doesn't mean you have to. And if you DO like that sort of stuff. Fine.

This is just a cross generation / culture comparison between ideals presented in the music by my own experiences, and my reflection of them.

[emoloz]

The content of HipHop and rap is just disgraceful these days. I mean I only really like it when used in a rock sort of context but apart from that its all recycled rubbish which sounds the same. I do like political rap though because they actually do speak out about problems that occur and I mean sometimes the ones about violence and drugs and promiscuous do highlight plights in society.

I hate the fact though they get all the money and all they do is spend it on crap like "bling" and there cars and it really doesn't nothing for music. Id you put your mind to it these days you can make a rap and hip hop song about any old junk and it will sell.

I really miss old hip hop when it was about something decent about social problems and political views because those to me are amazing. That's how they spoke and now it has been lost to these new groups.

I'll use R Kelly an example. He wrote that I know cheesy song "I believe I can fly" but how many people did that sogn speak to. He then got into the wrong crowd and jail and what not and wrote "ignition" one of the worse songs ever in my opinion and took this modern day theme.

I mean what kind of role models do they think they are playing. The sad thing really is they created some amazing music there ancestors and now look they play nothing of that beautiful music and have let it go to waste. It's sad really.

I think aso its due to equal rights as well because they have the same freedom as we do now they don't need to sing poltically as much because they have these rights. This isnt a bad thing and its amazing they do have the same rights which should have been from the start so now they use music as a way of saying we have freedom by singing about what they want to. Most songs used to be about how they would be opressed and stuff.

I don't get why people should slam some rappers as well because some have made some amazing songs even the likes of Eminiem. Yes he has made some crap but if you look some of his song s are actually trueful and speak out about how society is.

Am mixed but generally i don't like how its evolved.

[gigantor21]

I really can't stand where rap is going as an music form--if, as speedphantom says, you can even call the stuff on the radio "music" anymore.

For me, the decline is tied with the commoditization of the whole "gangsta" image, which is just shit without an insightful sociopolitical message behind it. Before, when rappers wrote about life in Compton and Harlem and the like, it was mostly done to expose a mindset and way of life that most people didn't even know about. I've always believed that it wasn't supposed to glamorize the lifestyle, but put the all the crime and squalor in perspective--as a means of pushing people to get rid of it.

Instead, that same warped mindset, which upholds crime, gender discrimination and self-destruction as GOOD things, became "cool" in and of itself, so rappers and record execs alike have been riding that bandwagon to the bank ever since. There are still a few rappers that use the craft as a form of artistic expression or social commentary...but most of the popular stuff just beats the dead horse of glamorizing "hood life".

I HATE the direction rap has taken. It's doing nothing for us in the black community, and it threatens to reduce the whole genre into a fad that'll never come back. Leaving everyone right back at square one.

It reminds me of the first track of "Things Fall Apart" by the Roots:
Inevitably, hip-hop records are treated as though they are disposable. They're not maximized as product, even--y'know, not to mention as art.
Wynton Marsalis doesn't consider rap a legitimate form of music. There aren't many big rappers trying to prove him wrong--and if it stays that way, it may be for the best if it shrinks.

[Isaiah1989]

I rarely ever listen to the Radio anymore, seeing as all they play are the same songs. I'm a huge fan of real hip hop, not this recycled commercialized stuff we see today. Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Skyzoo, Common, KanYe West, The Roots (Black Though is sooooooo Underrated) ect.

I also don't like when rappers try to portray their music as true hip hop.

IMO:
50 Cent = not hip hop
Lil' Wayne = not hip hop
D4L = Definitely not hip hop

[cornflakes]

Lyrics is the most important thing in music, the song has to mean something. I mean it's awfully judgemental to say that songs about violence, drugs, girls, sex and partying aren't good and it is subjective but I just think its rubbish.
I disagree-- by this criteria then Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata and Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture shouldn't be considered as music. :rotflmao

For me the most important thing in music is flow-- a song can have excellent socio-political commentary, but if it doesn't flow well, it's still lousy music. Conversely even if a song is essentially about nothing/doesn't make sense, if it flows right. For example, "The Fallen (http://youtube.com/watch?v=M1X-J8MYVtg)" by Franz Ferdinand isn't actually saying anything, but is one of my favourite songs nonetheless. Of course, if the song has both, then it's a bonus, but lyrics don't make or break a song, IMO.

[HELLA PINOY]

Hip hop will always evolve and change and have stereotypes just like any other music genre.

Who here can say rock isn't the same as it was 5-10-20 years ago? Who can say everyone that listens to country is a gun toting redneck? Who can say everyone who listens to Bob Marley is a stoner? Who can say everyone that listens to emo or hardrock cuts their wrists every night?

Same with R&B, Pop, Country, Jazz, Blues, and everything else under the sun. Everything has a beginning and over time music evolves and branches out into sub genres. IMO Hip hop is the mother genre and as it evolved it spawned out rap, gangsta rap, underground, etc.

NO MATTER WHAT direction hip hop is going now (which I don't approve) or what direction it will go in the future there will ALWAYS be critics and haters and bashing on hip hop culture.

I got an excerpt of Common's "The Game" Id like to share to show why I think hip hop still has a chance :) and I cant wait for his new Album in December

Stay in your lane, Brokeback ain't the way of the game
My brainstorm is like I stay in the rain
My favorite was Kane, now I'm dope with weight in the game
You was hot but can't stay in the flame
Ghetto pain and windows crack, the fist is like a symbol for black
Can tell the real by how the real interact
In the middle of whack my soul sticks to a track
Kickback records get kicked to the back
I want big cribs and my man Ronnie to get his
Child in a good school and know what her gift is
It's global warming, the world is shifting
Watching Sweet Sixteen, Bitchin-ass rich kids
You don't know it like you gotta go the distance
Whether yoga or doja, we all get lifted in the Game

[tatygirl90]

A lot of music these days is going downhill though. It just isn't hip hop and rap. A lot of artists we have now are manufactured. I think there are some good hip hop and rap artists out there, but they just don't get enough airplay compared to more mainstreams artists.

I hate the fact though they get all the money and all they do is spend it on crap like "bling" and there cars and it really doesn't nothing for music. Id you put your mind to it these days you can make a rap and hip hop song about any old junk and it will sell.

That can be applied to the majority of the entertainment industry. Rock stars do it, actors and actresses do it, sport stars do it. That's what it's like in that industry, you fleunt your wealth...