Do you think that manga can only be made by the Japanese?

[Awakenedgirl86]

Some of you probably noticed that you have seen manga styled comics done people of other nationalities. Do you support them or are you against them? Before you say anything please don't curse.

Here is my point of view. Manga in the beginning manga was influenced by Walt Disney and manga simply means comics in Japanese. So, there is reason for me to say that Non-Japanese can't make manga. It is all just a moot point for me.

[Rain]

one fo the rules of the debate section is not to curse, so you don't really need that line :XD

Anyways, this is a fun topic

I don't have a problem with American comics copying the japanese style (right to left and such) but it does bug me when its called American manga

manga, to me, isn't as much a style of comics as it is just the comics from japan.

I prefer the japanese style (art, dialogue, layout/format, etc) but if its a comic thats made in the US i'd rather it not be called manga

I dont mind if its given a name other than comic (graphic novels for instance)

[Awakenedgirl86]

You do you that manga simply means comic in Japanese, right?

[Rain]

Yeah, and thats one reason i have a problem with it

calling it manga is still calling it comics, and i dont see manga as the style so there is no reason for the name change

[kiera2]

To ask this question you first have to define what, exactly, separates 'manga' from other comics. Is it visual style, something about intended audience and method of production, or simply the fact that they were made in Japan?

[Rain]

Kiera2- i know you weren't really adressing that to me, but I did answer that question

to me, manga isn't the visual style, layout of the comic. It is simply the name of comics in japan, not intended to be a representation of an entire style

Going with that, american comics can use the japanese style, but to call it manga is misleading IMO

[Shdo]

i think rain is right, manga is from japan only, if a comics take elements from it that dosnt mean its also a manga.
just like anime is from japan alone, that dosnt means that shows that look similer are also anime, they are only anime inspired.

[Gol D. Roger]

In terms of style, no. There are some fantastic mahwa (Korean comics) which have a style almost identical to Japanese manga.

And in terms of story and other aspects, no. I mean, right now Stan Lee and Shaman King writer/artist Takei Hiroyuki are collaborating on Ultimo.

However, I think that ultimately, "manga," carries a deeper, cultural meaning beyond simply, "comics."

In American culture, we usually view comics individually, ultimately committing our hard-earned dollar not to comics as a whole, as an industry, but rather to the individual stories we appreciate.

Conversely, in Japan, the overwhelming majority of manga is serialized through weekly and monthly magazine publications. This exposes Japanese readers to a whole slew of different manga. Their appreciation for comics often extends far beyond a handful of favorites, because they are exposed to many different manga contained in one place. After enjoying their top picks, they can see if they like any number of the other comics, and do it without having to lay down extra money.

So, as an art form, looking at what's on the page and nothing more, then, "no," manga is not only made by the Japanese.

However, the very institution of manga is unique in Japan; something that cannot be replicated by others.

[Ninira]

Well, manga made by Koreans is still manga, isn't it? (Even though it has a different term like manwha.)

[Shdo]

by difinition manga is japanese comic, so i dont think other countries or producers can do japanese comics period, it can be similer but it will still be, american, korean or whatever. if something is inspired by something else that dosnt make it that thing.


every Rhombus is a Parallelogram, but not every Parallelogram is a Rhombus.

[La`Punyeta]

Japanese use manga to promote their culture and beliefs....It's one of their ingenius ways of preserving their culture...I dont think that is just called comics..It has a deeper purpose than entertaining the readers..So manga truly belongs only to Japan..

any country can make a manga with similar artstyle..but as what they say...Original are always the best..

[Awakenedgirl86]

So, most of you think that if only Japanese people can make manga, huh. A person who is half Japanese and half Chinese but was born in Japan can't make manga because they're only half Japanese?

[Shdo]

the question is if he have a japanese mindset. if he does and he lives in japan then the publishing company would be japanese and then i am quite sure it will be a regular manga but if he dosnt have the mindset or style then its hardly a manga.

[Rain]

I don't think it really has anything to do with the person at all, even to the extent of mindset. For me, its simply where the comic/manga is made

If its made in the US, it should be called comic (or if they want to break from the connotation that follows comic then they use graphic novel)

If its made in japan, then its manga

As Ive said, manga isn't referring to a style at all. Nor is comic. There are 1000's of styles in both, manga and comic mean the same thing, so calling a comic made in the US is just wrong IMO

For instance, if Kubo moved to US, and bleach began running here first, then even if it keeps its same style (weekly issue, the art, format all that) it is no longer a manga, its a comic

[mechaqua]

style wise there could be in the same style as most manga is drawn i have a friend who draws comics using styles used in manga(no its not published anyware outside my appartment) but it is only manga if comes from Japan

[Ninira]

If its made in the US, it should be called comic (or if they want to break from the connotation that follows comic then they use graphic novel)

That can be confusing, since regular comic anthologies are called graphic novels as well. Even if people don't consider them 'true manga', I think they should be placed with other Japanese manga to avoid confusion between two separate classifications.

[Rain]

Ninira- i was just saying they could have a more adult name to avoid the comic book connotation.

And personally i'd rather see them placed with the US comic books as oppossed to the japanese manga;)

[Ninira]

And personally i'd rather see them placed with the US comic books as oppossed to the japanese manga;)

Either way, 'manga' itself is a generic word that means comic book. If it's in manga-style, I think it has every right to be considered 'American-made manga' or '____-made manga'.

[Rain]

Either way, 'manga' itself is a generic word that means comic book
yeah, i know that:p

If it's in manga-style, I think it has every right to be considered 'American-made manga' or '____-made manga'.

this is what gets me. I do not see Manga as a style. Manga may have a unique style (from the rest of the world) but manga is not a syle in of itself

American comics can be read right to left, they can mimic so common styles seen in manga, but that does not make they manga, it makes the copy a common style seen in manga

[melboyd~]

in malaysia, we do have manga-ka that produce some volumes of manga. i called their works as manga because they use the japanese-drawing styles and techniques (and of course are influenced by the japanese). however, they dont seem to meet the level like the mangas produced by the mangaka from japan (the arts are great, but it lacks the edgy part, and the neatness and awesomeness of the ones made by japanese mangaka).

i've seen some manghwa too (korean manga) and i dunno, but i can recognize the art in a glance that it's not drawn by a japanese mangaka .. maybe years of reading and admiring manga arts by the japanese has made me that sensitive to their drawings. i'm not an expert of any kind tho, just a mere fan.

so rite now, i can say that manga (japanese-style) can only be made by the japanese :P also, people from other countries are good in their own way and unique style when making their own manga.

[Shdo]

i know what you are talking about, when i watched shows that werent japanese but tried to use the same style...it just wasnt it, it felt wrong, diffrent.

[Ninira]

I do not see Manga as a style. Manga may have a unique style (from the rest of the world) but manga is not a syle in of itself

Why do you feel that way?

American comics can be read right to left, they can mimic so common styles seen in manga, but that does not make they manga, it makes the copy a common style seen in manga

So using, say, cubism does not make the artist a cubist, but an imitator of the cubist style?

I've noticed a lot of people are saying that the Japanese have sort of a 'collective' fashion as to how they draw things, and how it's unique from that drawn in other countries. But there's a ton of variation within Japan itself, just look at the difference between Naoko Takeuchi, CLAMP and Hirohiko Araki. It seems arrogant to say that ONLY the Japanese can draw manga 'correctly'.

Quick question: has anyone in this thread been discouraged from buying something in the manga section that looked otherwise interesting, but it was made in a not-Japan country?

[Rain]

Why do you feel that way?

Why do I feel that manga isn't a style? Because there are varying styles in manga. The onlt thing that US manga has in terms of similarity is they copy the format (ie how its read, and how the art is framed) Manga is just the name for all these styles collectively

So using, say, cubism does not make the artist a cubist, but an imitator of the cubist style?

actually what i meant was the reverse. Simply mimicing the cubist style doesn't make you a cubist.

I've noticed a lot of people are saying that the Japanese have sort of a 'collective' fashion as to how they draw things, and how it's unique from that drawn in other countries. But there's a ton of variation within Japan itself, just look at the difference between Naoko Takeuchi, CLAMP and Hirohiko Araki. It seems arrogant to say that ONLY the Japanese can draw manga 'correctly'.

I agree with this, and this is one reason why i dont think manga is a style. Manga is mearly the term that encompasses all the huindreds of styles that these artists use.

Quick question: has anyone in this thread been discouraged from buying something in the manga section that looked otherwise interesting, but it was made in a not-Japan country?

No, i have no problem with a US comic using the Japanese (manga) format. But i have refused to buy it when it is called US manga.

[melboyd~]

i know ^^ Naoko Takeuchi and CLAMP differs in a lot of drawing styles. what to say about Fujio F. Fujiko (doraemon) xD, the One Piece mangaka and Rumiko Takahashi (ranma 1/2) and a lot others. variation in styles is natural imo, that what makes their manga unique from the other. what i think 'collective' style for the japanese manga is that, the drawings are made in detail, mostly neat, the body is well proportioned etc. well, they are a few mangakas who draw messily tho. not that many as far as i've seen ;p

hm, so i think it;s more like this. if i am to be trained by a mangaka (preferably a japanese) under her/his supervision, using the instruments for drawing and coloring just like any common japanese mangakas do, and have been trained on the 'correct' techniques, i'm sure i'll be able to draw awesomely like them. it's not the matter of nationality, but the training in producing manga just like the japanese (this is their product anyway) that can promise a typical or 'correct' japanese-style manga.

to answer the Q posed, i nvr bought any non-japanese manga (it's been a while since i buy any, there's online manga lol). but yearsss ago, i bought some Hong Kong comics, with colored pages. they have a style of their own (they did embed some japanese-style manga expressions, like the blushing part, angry etc), quite nice.

[Ninira]

Why do I feel that manga isn't a style? Because there are varying styles in manga. The onlt thing that US manga has in terms of similarity is they copy the format (ie how its read, and how the art is framed) Manga is just the name for all these styles collectively

I'm not quite sure I understand the 'how it's read, how the art is framed' line of thought. Are you meaning they draw it reading from right to left?

No, i have no problem with a US comic using the Japanese (manga) format. But i have refused to buy it when it is called US manga.

So, despite it having a storyline that interested you, you did not read/buy it?

[Rain]

By the format here is what i mean.

It is meant to be read right to left. It generally isn't in color. It is generally released once a week (as opposed to monthly). And by frames I dont really know how i want to describe it. Maybe how the scenes are placed on the page

And yes, it had a storyline that i think i might have liked, but once i saw it said US manga i decided against it. I had no problem with it trying to copy the manga format, but the fact that it was called US manga just seems wrong (almost like its trying to cheat people)

I think it should also be said that I generally dislike all US comics, the plots, art pacing all that is just blah to me

(so i can see how i might sound biased here)

[rayne_himura]

manga is a japan version of a comic book. for example, americans may do the style of manga, but it isnt manga if an american created it, its a "comic book". a lot of western comic artists, and some writers as well, are influenced by manga to varying degrees.

[igniz]

In France, there's a young woman Jenny who writes a shojo called Pink Diary, it's really a manga, same drawing, same format, same story codes from what I've heard, I'm not really into shojo myself :p and yet she's not Japanese at all.
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9922/coverow5.jpg
Her comic is considered as manga by libraries and it's sold in the same row with the others Japanese shojos.

So I think an artist with a good manga culture could perfectly do a manga even if not Japanese, it's just style and codes to follow.

[SakuraTsuny]

True manga is only Japanese.
American manga is american manga.By the way that shoudn't be called manga.

[MiraofAzureSky]

True manga can only be made by Japanese.

But manga-style stuff can be made by anyone, and I'll consider it basically the same thing anyhow. :p

[♠ Saint ♠]

Manga is a style of art, I think, just like cubism, impressionism, abstract, etc. Anyone can do it but seeing as manga originated in Japan, it'd be fair to say that it is Japanese art. Just like sfumato is Italian, manga is Japanese. Anyone can paint a sfumato style and anyone can draw the manga style but it doesn't change where the style originated but nor does it diminish the artist's final product.

[GreenBlack]

I think the reason we're inclined to say that manga should only be Japanese is not because we're looking at it from a thoughtful perspective but because we've seen America fuck up the term 'manga'. Just look at such titles as Bizenghast and Princess Ai. It's simply not the same. I think that Jenny is a good example- and I think that if American artists try hard we could easily follow tradition and make manga. To me manga is not Japanese but a high quality comic in the japanese style- with an interesting plot.

[♠ Saint ♠]

Hold up now.

Princess Ai is a project that was spearheaded by Courtney Love who is known to form bands only to be kickd out of them by the members later because she is a bit of a diva. Hell, she even calls herself "America's Sweetheart" in the notes at the end. The entire Princess Ai work is fictional telling on her life. I would consider it an American comic in the manga artistic style.

[HELLA PINOY]

I dont think it should be restricted to Japan. Just becaus it originated thre doesnt mean only they are good at it. Basketball and baseball started in the US and now look how it's spread out all over the world. Almost every country has their own rules or variations of the games.

Besides the US can make some pretty good animeor manga...just look at the Boondocks! :cookie

[Rain]

Manga is a style of art, I think, just like cubism, impressionism, abstract, etc.

I think this is the main point were we disagree, to me Manga isn't a style

To me manga is not Japanese but a high quality comic in the japanese style- with an interesting plot.

I agree with part of this:oops. Mostly the japanese style part, as I don't see manga or anime as a "style" in of itself

Besides the US can make some pretty good anime or manga...just look at the Boondocks! :cookie

the Boondocks is funny, but i don't consider it anime

[Babbo]

Meh this just a semantics battle. The reason why people ask this question is because OEL manga have tended to turn out so crappy. That's mostly because manga, while it is a growing US market, is still pretty niche. If it can expand to anywhere near the size of the comics market, then you'll see some good OEL. Right now the truly talented artists are either not getting picked up or are simply going elsewhere.

Babbo can sorta see the whole style argument. After all, we use the word Manwha to describe Korean comics. But then comics like Black God mess things up (ie it's published in Japan but drawn in a definite Korean style, yet at the same time is often called a manga). Babbo thinks it's a lot easier to think of the respective words as a term for the place where the particular series came from. You can always just say that's it's done in a Japanese style etc. etc. It's not racist or anything, it just leaves less room for weird situations like black God.

[Abigail]

I think any country could create their own comic style animated thing.
I just feel that when I hear the word Manga, it is in my mind that it was from japanese people.
Other places could release one with their own uniqueness, originality and also with a different name.

[ninhoic]

I don't think that manga is necessarily only made by the Japanese, but the traditional idea of what manga should be is. I think that American made manga isnt the same as the Japanese ones. I feel that the american versions are just regular comic books with a manga inspiration, not a full on manga...

[viperdarkness]

Though manga came originally by Japan, i think it shouldn't be restricted to that country. others could probably at least try it and make different and unique styles, which i think is creative, and i find it interesting to read. it may not come from japan, but it might still be pretty good.

[Fouji]

Manga is simply a type of art which any artist can get the idea of doing it. If there were a manga done by a person other than a japanese with the same effects and such, then someone else sees it, the first thing that'll come up to thier mind is the word "manga" despite where it came from.

[Beee]

imo, manga is a style more than just "comic book translated in japanese". It's a way of drawing characters, drawing backgrounds and panels, action, drama, emotes, and stuff. I've seen many people draw anime/manga style characters from many different countries, and it's hard to tell from the art itself who comes from where... some are from the US, Europe, Canada (in my case lol)... so I think the author not being japanese doesn't make the work less manga-ish.

And like Greenblack/babbo said, we seem to hesitate calling OEL manga "mangas" because well... lower quality compared to japanese manga, because the artwork seems to be a forced imitation of manga and the writing not so good, at least from what I've heard/read. However, keep in mind that OEL mangakas probably get much less money, job security and recognition, (the crappy market doesn't help either) so many artists probably turn away from doing OEL.

On a personal note, if I was to draw a manga/comic (or whatever term you prefer), using and being inspired by manga styling, I would prefer the term manga over "comic", because having it called "comic" is a little misleading (the typical comic style being completely different).

[Dragon master]

I think anyone can make a Manga. All you need to know Japanese drawing style and a great stories.

[Grey1x]

I didn't read other people's posts, but I'll just drop my way of thinking here:

I think anyone should be able to draw / write a manga. And, considering that this is a website based on a manga, I'm sure some peolpe here already had the idea of doing one.

There are manga-lovers across the world, so it'd be unfair if they couldn't write a manga, or, if they did, their manga would be discriminated because they aren't Japanese.

However, I'm sure this would happen. The quality of a non-japanese manga would have to be like 10 times greater than a japanese one to have sucess. Because the idea of "Manga is for Japanese" is too stuck on people's minds already.

[Aoi Innocence]

I think everyone should be able to wrtie/draw a manga. Manga is only Japanese for comic and basically comic is a form of art which can be shared by the world. it's kinda like certain types of pottery.

[CrimsonQuincy]

Judging by majority's rule, I'd have no chance of my work being considered manga when I get a chance to publish it.

As I am an artist, I definitely say manga is a style. Like someone else said, it's really silly to say you aren't or can't be a cubist if you weren't born in the same country Picasso was. You are a Cubist if your work is primarily cubism or if you've done a lot of work in that area. Most of my work is styled like manga. So I almost feel offended that most of you are damning me to never being seen as an equal to a native born mangaka, no matter how hard I work. That's simply not right.

Yes, there are some american manga that bastardize the style. Infact, most of it does. But when done right, I honestly can't tell the difference. A friend of mine has a very Japanese style and the same style of writing to back it up. When she publishes her graphic novel, if you didn't look at her name, I doubt you'd think to your self, "Oh! This sucks! It's obviously not Japanese!"

I understand that their culture does tie into their comics a great deal, that it definitely does have a different feel, but it's not very fair to dismiss a comic because of the author's nationality. Just as much hard work was put in to it as their fellow human, who happened to be born and raised in Japan, did.

[tatygirl90]

I don't have a problem with other artists' mimicking the style of the original Japanese mangas. Like somebody said about the Boondocks', I get the impression that it mimicks the style of mangas, but doesn't necessarily try to be one.

[lilsakura]

Hmmm...well, yeah it would be wierd if it were called manga in the US because it's manhwa in Korea, and that has its own name. And in the US they're called comics (already pointed out by Rain-kun), so why feel the need to change the name? And manhwa looks a heck of a lot like manga so...eh..:p

[CrimsonQuincy]

The term manga just has a different feel to it than comic. When I think of Manga, I think of the graphic novels that are bound to look more like an actual book, along with the general style they're done in. Comic brings to mind things Marvel and DC would put out--and that's certainly not the same comic type I'd be doing, so manga just seems more appropriate. Though there's definitely a few who don't share this view, my own opinion is that it is definitely a style in which a story is told.

[Rain]

As I am an artist, I definitely say manga is a style. Like someone else said, it's really silly to say you aren't or can't be a cubist if you weren't born in the same country Picasso was. You are a Cubist if your work is primarily cubism or if you've done a lot of work in that area. Most of my work is styled like manga. So I almost feel offended that most of you are damning me to never being seen as an equal to a native born mangaka, no matter how hard I work. That's simply not right

I don't think anyone would be damning what you want to do. You can make your series, it can be really damn good. I personally just wouldn't call it a "manga" is all.

it has nothing to do with being seen as equal or inferior to a mangaka. I wouldn't say that because you aren't japanese your "manga" will suck or anything of the sort

similarly to how I responded to the cubist argument:

I don't see "manga" as a style. it has a unique format, the left to right, the panels, the layouts, etc

but I don't think "the art style" consitutes something as a manga or a comic.

[Babbo]

Judging by majority's rule, I'd have no chance of my work being considered manga when I get a chance to publish it.

As I am an artist, I definitely say manga is a style. Like someone else said, it's really silly to say you aren't or can't be a cubist if you weren't born in the same country Picasso was. You are a Cubist if your work is primarily cubism or if you've done a lot of work in that area. Most of my work is styled like manga. So I almost feel offended that most of you are damning me to never being seen as an equal to a native born mangaka, no matter how hard I work. That's simply not right.

Yes, there are some american manga that bastardize the style. Infact, most of it does. But when done right, I honestly can't tell the difference. A friend of mine has a very Japanese style and the same style of writing to back it up. When she publishes her graphic novel, if you didn't look at her name, I doubt you'd think to your self, "Oh! This sucks! It's obviously not Japanese!"

I understand that their culture does tie into their comics a great deal, that it definitely does have a different feel, but it's not very fair to dismiss a comic because of the author's nationality. Just as much hard work was put in to it as their fellow human, who happened to be born and raised in Japan, did.

Pfft. You're confusing yourself with semantics. Even the companies that sell comics/manga don't call oel comics done with a Japanese style manga. Hell, Tokyopop has gone through at least two or three different labels for their line of oel comics (it's world comics now babbo thinks)<.<

The word manga is used predominantly to describe comics from japan. Just like anime is used to describe Japanese animation or Manwah is used to describe comics from Korea. It's just a transplant of a foreign word used to describe a product from that country. It makes no comment on the works themselves, it's just a way to categorize them. The close association that people take with the style that most manga are drawn in shows how successful that transplant has been.

[Ayu-chan]

Manga is basically comics, the only difference is manga has some eastern habits included and comics has some western habits in it.

But IMO, manga still wins over it :cookie

[balladbird]

Semantics aside, the artistic and story elements of manga can wholly be interpreted through the lenses of other cultures and still be used to produce a quality product.

The actual biggest reason why so many OELs and Manwha are low quality is actually because of the kinds of fans typically developing them. Generally they're very young, some pre-college level, who are writing comics based in their favorite shonen or shoujo. Those two genres are incredibly overplayed already, and their stories are almost never done well, even in Japan, so it's reasonable that the majority of OEL and the like would be mediocre as well.

Though I wouldn't call the end result of another culture's comic "manga," Since, as Babbo pointed out, that word is used by the japanese to refer to their comics. The only time I use "Manga" to describe my own comic project (The plot outlines of which are linked in my sig *advertise advertise*) is when it's necessary to dispel confusion regarding how it will be styled, since "Comic" can be misleading.