Prision Vs Death

[Thantos-Espada]

I wanna start a debate about the justice of prision terms and the injustice of the death pently and how they effect people and what peoples veiws on each type of punishment are.


first is the prision sentances. Currently in the UK prisions are overflowing with crimmminals from drug dealers to rapists and child malesterers. this is due to there being no difference in punishmeant between them. A drug dealer who has sold marowana too a 30 year old homeless man and a convicted child killer both get the same treatment, just one's punishment lasts alot longer than the others.

Is this fair? should people that have commited crimes we can only name as inhuman be just sent to prision to be let out in 10 years.


a person who has commited minor crimes sutch as pickpocketing and street theft. would go to prision for maybe 6-12 months maybe 2 years maximum depending on what he stole.

a year is a long time to stay somewhere. but still people commiting major crimes might get a sentance of maybe 5-25 years. no one gets life time sentances these days.

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The death sentance, the act of killing a criminal because he has commited a major crime.

TBH i think the death penalty should return as a punisment.

it may sound sick and uncaring but i think certain criminals, not all criminals but some should die because of what they have done.

(bring in our made up criminal called AAA)

AAA has just killed 6 people,in barbaric ways, before taking a nursery teacher hostage and raping her.

ok. so this man would get maybe, 15 - 40 years for this...


but think about it, those people he has just killed will never continue in their lives, their familiys will be destroyed by emotions.

the rape victim will never be able to work again due to truama...


if it fair, that this man that savagly killed these people and mentaly killed another should be aloud to keep his life only to have 40 yearts of it taken away from him.

40 years is a very long time, i havn't even lived that long yet.

but what will the other criminals watching him think


"Wow that dude did all that and only got 40 years"


therefor making them lessafraid of the goverment and less afraid of the law making crimes escalate. some criminals learn from prision, learn about right and wrong while others can justcommit crimes without fear.

some criminals will onyl be effected if they see people like themselves being killed because of crimes.

it sounds like a tyrants way of thinking witch it is.

but fear would keep people inline. of course there would be protest andriots about it being inhuman to murder murderers. but at what point did they have rights? before they commited the crime, while their knife was slicing though the neck of a young girl or while they where stood in the court room saying

"I didnt mean to kill her"

well im gonna ssshh here and let peeps discuss^^

Please dont get phased by my lack of evidance and lack of facts i have searched for neither, this is about your own opinions not your opinions based on fact other people have written.

[Shdo]

well the counter argument is that society got no right to take life even if its the life of a mass murderer. and i think its half right, killing some1 just because he killed and raped wont make anything better, the victims would still be dead and raped.

but there is a third point of view, society should kill them because society dosnt wish for such members to live in it, those members eat away your tax money and when they get out they are convicted murderers, will they be able to assimilate into society? i doubt it. in the end they might commit this crimes again, and then what? will you go to the victims family and say that you couldnt knew that the mass murderer would kill again?


as i see it the best thing to do is to throw those murderers in some deserted island, let them live there in their anarchy sorounded by other killers and thousends of miles of ocean, keep the prison for people who actually can assimilate back into society. if they cannot accept the standarts of human society (dont kill) then society wash itself from you, you get a knife and 1 week rations and the rest is up to you.

[WatanukiXXX]

I'm all for capital punishment as the final, most extreme sentence for certain offences such as murder, any grievous bodily harm offences where victim dies, sexual offences where victim dies.

The standard should be high though e.g intention to kill.

If the prosecutor is unable to prove intention to kill beyond a reasonable doubt then the death penalty should be removed as a sentence option. Instead life imprisonment should be considered.

But that is it. Capital punishment should NOT be used againts drug dealers, or theft or any other kind of criminal offences.

[Rain]

There is a death-penalty debate already (which is pretty much what this is)

that being said, im for the death penalty in many cases but not all.

I don't see the death penalty as making up for a crime at all, its ridding the world of someone who did a horrid crime (i may have been watching too much deathnote lately) and society is better off without them.

the situations for when it should be used are up for debate also, but i haven't decided on where the line should be (its impossible to sanely draw that line though)

[Bleu]

this is basically the death penalty thread.


sorry if you take offence, but when i see a word wrong i have to correct it. its prison.

[Luhy]

I think death is an easy way out for people who commit horrible crimes... those who have the means to escape or enjoy their time in prison, should be executed though if their crime was harsh enough... and of course, people like Osama etc... they need to be killed asap so they can't possibly cause any further damage

I worked in a Music warehouse once, and our main clients were imprisoned people... we picked orders of CDs(mostly), cassettes, electronics, snack-food, game, and clothing to them... makes you think what else they get too... I wish more prisons were harsher... we shouldn't be sending child molestors and murders, Evanesance, Snickers, and Madden '08...

At the same time I really can't see death as a punishment, so it's a conundrum...

[LUV]

Well... let me be the one to say...

Death Penalty is WIN!

My Aunt was murdered by her boyfriend, she left three kids, the youngest was four months.. all he got was life in prison.. how is that fair? He gets to see his family and gets to see each day... he gets to see his own kids grow up and get to talk to them, my aunt will never see how cute her son is growing up to be, or how smart all three of them are.. so why let that BASTARD live? He killed her and didn't even try to apologize to our family.. he deserves to die, and he deserves to never see his kids grow up either...

An EYE for and EYE and a TOOTH for a TOOTH!

[Luhy]

maybe im evil but... i kinda think death is an easy way out... but prison is too comfy... they should torture people like him or lock them in torture chambers like the movie Hostel for people to pay money to torture/kill for pleasure...

that's horrible though Luv... :hug

[Babbo]

The problem babbo sees with the death penalty is a) you're no better than a murder if you condone it b) the way it is enforced in the US is too costly but that is because c) it's possible for innocent people to be executed. Even if babbo was able to completely remove his moral convictions from evaluation of the idea, it's worthless if it costs tax payers al ot of money and there is not 100% surety every time that the person being executed is guilty. And even if that were accomplished (not that it ever will be), there'd have to be evidence that it was an effective deterrent.

The problem though, is that in order to ensure that innocent people are not executed the process will need to be a) lengthly and detailed and b) equally applied. That means it costs money and at the same time loses effectiveness as a deterrent <.<

Prison is actually cheaper then appeals process that death row convicts go through. What babbo thinks should happen is that death row convicts shouldn't get conventional "cushy" prisons. Humiliation within a highly restricted environment at minimum costs for the rest of their lives is what babbo thinks would be best.

[Shdo]

i dont think its a matter of deterent, its a matter of a person that society cant live with and decide to get rid off, its not like killing him will make the victims families at peace, they still lost their loved ones. its more like making sure that such individuals wouldnt have a place among us even in 50 years.

[Babbo]

i dont think its a matter of deterent, its a matter of a person that society cant live with and decide to get rid off, its not like killing him will make the victims families at peace, they still lost their loved ones. its more like making sure that such individuals wouldnt have a place among us even in 50 years.

The main goal of any kind of punishment is deterrence man. And you're fooling yourself if you think that all victims families actually feel peace of mind when a murder is killed or that governments would actually put money into such a practice on the off chance that killing a bad person would make people feel better <.<

[Shdo]

well i did said "its not like killing him will make the victims families at peace, they still lost their loved ones"

i said it got nothing to do with making any1 feel happy but to simply take out people who harm society.

[Babbo]

well i did said "its not like killing him will make the victims families at peace, they still lost their loved ones"

i said it got nothing to do with making any1 feel happy but to simply take out people who harm society.

Oop misread your post. But that only makes your case even weaker. You're talking about doing the worst possible thing that a person can do, and asking society to condone it to boot and you don't even want to accomplish anything of consequence?

[Shdo]

you did accomplish something, you got rid of the sick part. what does letting a mass murderer to live gives you? he might be released one day and might kill again, hell he might kill again in prison. society cannot function when people are killed in the streets.

if people dont accept the laws of society then they dont have place in society, i preffer dumping them on a deserted island, thousends of miles from everything but i guess taht wont happen.

[Babbo]

you did accomplish something, you got rid of the sick part. what does letting a mass murderer to live gives you? he might be released one day and might kill again, hell he might kill again in prison. society cannot function when people are killed in the streets.

if people dont accept the laws of society then they dont have place in society, i preffer dumping them on a deserted island, thousends of miles from everything but i guess taht wont happen.

Think about it though. Even most mass murders are on a pretty small scale when you're looking at the whole forest. And society can function when people are killed. It does it all the time. The point is, capitol punishment as all punishments ,does have the wider intent of deterrence. There's no point in having such a system if it only accomplishes things in piecemeal >.>

[Shdo]

if it got detterent effect as well that this is a bonus but the idea should be to simply get rid of elements who harm society.
its like going to the dentist, when you have a rotten tooth then he removes it completly.

[LUV]

Shdo.. I agree with you.. I just wish that our Justice system worked a bit faster, but since we have so many idiots roaming the streets, I can understand why its so slow...

I think that if you are able to take a life just like that, then you should be ready to lose your own... its not fair for either party, but too bad.. again... an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth... If it was up to me... all those criminals in death row would be dead by now.. all by hanging, or better yet.. execution.. if you have the BALLS to kill someone.. then you must also suffer...

and thats how the cookie crumbles.......

[Shdo]

actually in israel there is no death penalty, there was one exeption which was eichman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYne0wzan80

basicly we are against that and i can respect that prespective that death penalty is wrong, that is why i think that the right thing to do is exile.
those who dont respect society dont have place in it.


once saw a movie about one such island where killers were sent to. once you are there, there are no rules, the predator is now the prey.

[Babbo]

Shdo.. I agree with you.. I just wish that our Justice system worked a bit faster, but since we have so many idiots roaming the streets, I can understand why its so slow...

I think that if you are able to take a life just like that, then you should be ready to lose your own... its not fair for either party, but too bad.. again... an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth... If it was up to me... all those criminals in death row would be dead by now.. all by hanging, or better yet.. execution.. if you have the BALLS to kill someone.. then you must also suffer...

and thats how the cookie crumbles.......

that only works if you have a fool proof justice system. Unless you're willing to have the blood of the innocent on your hands <.<

[Shdo]

that is the greatest argument against death penalty, sometimes the innocent go to prison. maybe death penalty should be applied only in severe casses where the guilt is unquestionable.

[LUV]

that only works if you have a fool proof justice system. Unless you're willing to have the blood of the innocent on your hands <.<


Well.. everyone is INNOCENT until proven GUILTY... so if you are in DEATH ROW.. you must have done something wrong....lol...

I am not saying kill everyone.. just murderers and ppl who do horrible crimes... if they are found guilty in all of their appeals.. then kill them

Our jails are already crowded as it is.. imagine how much space we would save.. not to mention tax dollars......

Note: Stop picking on me :cry

[Thantos-Espada]

The death penalty wasnt made really to rid the world of the person...

its was propaganda to strike fear into the other criminals, the fear of death.

people commit crimes knowing they go to prision for 5 years then get out...


but if they where threatend with death penaltys there would be less insentive to do the crime in the first place

[bradc]

I disagree with death penalty; unless those have committed crime without feeling any remorse or redemption; hurting thousands and trillions of lives that is no different from any warfares. The law enforcement and court laws are corrupted these days as is the death row sentence several years ago, and given to those who have never chance because they were discriminated against for their skin colour and background. Is it fair being innocent and being locked away for no reason and then the next minute you find yourself either being hung on a noose, get electricuited or they tie you up and inject a drug in your body to put to sleep for good; not given the chance to live?

The death penalty wasnt made really to rid the world of the person...

its was propaganda to strike fear into the other criminals, the fear of death.

people commit crimes knowing they go to prision for 5 years then get out...


but if they where threatend with death penaltys there would be less insentive to do the crime in the first place

Not in some cases, there are some people who have been innocent all along and been sitting jail for 10 years when capture the wrong person, while the real culprit gets away with it; how is that justified? If one person put themselves into another person's shoes, they will probably feel the same effect that is affecting their lives.

[Inevitable.Exit]

I am very much for capital punishment and think it should be expanded to include child rapists. With child molesters having some form of castration. I do not feel these people are able to be rehabilitated and released back into society(partly due to stringent laws and regulations that don't allow them to be re-assimilated).

People don't seem to understand why the death penalty is there, it is not there to make families feel "vindicated", it is there because these people have commited crimes against humanity and as such should not be allowed to live. It is no different than someone being convicted of a war crime and put to death.

[bradc]

I am very much for capital punishment and think it should be expanded to include child rapists. With child molesters having some form of castration. I do not feel these people are able to be rehabilitated and released back into society(partly due to stringent laws and regulations that don't allow them to be re-assimilated).

People don't seem to understand why the death penalty is there, it is not there to make families feel "vindicated", it is there because these people have commited crimes against humanity and as such should not be allowed to live. It is no different than someone being convicted of a war crime and put to death.

I believe they have capital punishment long time ago for child rapist, and those people who cannot be redeemed no matter what. Is actually cheaper to sentence someone into life imprisonment than capital punishment, since the government is trying to make the place safer within the society. Except those who are wrongly accused being put into confinement would get a hearing, before they are released back into society.

[Shdo]

how come housing some1 and feeding him for 40 years is cheaper then simply electrifying him? or give him a shot and put him to sleep like a dog?

[bradc]

how come housing some1 and feeding him for 40 years is cheaper then simply electrifying him? or give him a shot and put him to sleep like a dog?

Because it comes from the government's pockets of the every country and not the civilians. The civilians only contribute to the business, schools of thought, farming sectors and so forth, which the government also governs. So it costs more money to execute someone than putting them behind (chocolate) bars.

[Shdo]

that is not an explenation, just pay for it from the same source and thats it. it will be cheaper to simply kill the man wi some sleep gas and poisen then to feed him for years and take space.

[bradc]

that is not an explenation, just pay for it from the same source and thats it. it will be cheaper to simply kill the man wi some sleep gas and poisen then to feed him for years and take space.

Is very well an explanation of how the society works. I don't suppose you want into very mini-mart to steal a drink and a candy car and walk out the door without paying the man. While robbery and killing are the same of any kind, it's no different from stealing small items of candy bar that only costs a few dollars (that's only if you buy one and not more).

[Shdo]

you still didnt explained why its more costly to execute a guy then to prison him till he die.

[bradc]

you still didnt explained why its more costly to execute a guy then to prison him till he die.

Shido-kun... (sighs)

How much does your electrical bill cost?
How much does your drugs cost?
How much does cost to buy a skipping rope?

How much does all these things cost to house person as to a person behind prison bars? There no different from a house and a guy sitting behind a jail cell because the cost are the same and just as expensive to keep the house, and roof over your head. Is always safety first.

[Shdo]

bradic.
cheaper when you consider that he will be in prison for decades, eating and housed, it cost around $22,650 a year for each inmate. life imprisonment for 40 years will cost more then 800,000 dollars. the reason a execution is costier isnt the meterial but the legal expenditure and that can be resolved with reforms. 50% of the money spent for an execution is on the trial level and that can be easily reformed.

[bradc]

bradic.
cheaper when you consider that he will be in prison for decades, eating and housed, it cost around $22,650 a year for each inmate. life imprisonment for 40 years will cost more then 800,000 dollars. the reason a execution is costier isnt the meterial but the legal expenditure and that can be resolved with reforms. 50% of the money spent for an execution is on the trial level and that can be easily reformed.

How many bodies are in jail cell these days that there is no room to fit any of them behind life time imprisonment, and similarities that of a senior retirement homes? It cost more to execute someone because military is part of the government that provides armory with the police enforcement; it cost money for the technological advancement for guns and swords just to keep the majority public safe.

[Shdo]

how did you connected weapon technolegy to executions? -_-'

if any its the other way around because when you poisen some1 you dont need a gun but when you guard some1 for years you do need guns and tech.

the point is that killing a murderer is costly only because of the trial. or in other words, because the system decided it will be costly, but at the same time they can reduce the cost to the same level with reforms, if they will it. hell if they really want to they can make execution much more cheaper, getting rid of people that are beyond repair such as serial murderers and repeating killers.

[bradc]

how did you connected weapon technolegy to executions? -_-'

if any its the other way around because when you poisen some1 you dont need a gun but when you guard some1 for years you do need guns and tech.

the point is that killing a murderer is costly only because of the trial. or in other words, because the system decided it will be costly, but at the same time they can reduce the cost to the same level with reforms, if they will it. hell if they really want to they can make execution much more cheaper, getting rid of people that are beyond repair such as serial murderers and repeating killers.

The government is always under your nose, and among its people in the society you are living in since the day you were born; it's all connected like the wiring of the house with jailer inside either inside or outside of the house of contemporary confinement.

Your house needs repairing as does the serial (cereal) killers that are outside of your house spying on you; preying on their next victim as being ci-vilians (people).

[LUV]

I think the GOVT. needs to stop wasting the tax payers money on those idiots, and waste it on our young children to teach them right from wrong. Its too costly to keep them alive. If they were found guilty under a court of law, then just kill them, they are obviously worthless.

[bradc]

I think the GOVT. needs to stop wasting the tax payers money on those idiots, and waste it on our young children to teach them right from wrong. Its too costly to keep them alive. If they were found guilty under a court of law, then just kill them, they are obviously worthless.

I agree with this one LUV; the government system been spending money on elsewhere than help reestablish the educational system on where it should be and that's pretty much deteriorating where kids and adults a like are getting dumber these days because they don't have proper education or being too poor to be able to afford it; more violence are breaking out from these idiots, which adds up to more dumping ground to execute those who commit crime than those who don't.

College and university are getting too expensive to afford to go for adults, and those who have just graduated from high school and want to go to either one of these schools to continue education, but cannot afford it no matter what.

[Babbo]

No amount of reform will change the necessity of the appeals process that ensures that we know beyond the shadow of a doubt (or as close as we can get to it) that the person that is being sentenced to death actually committed the crime. One might ask "what about the people that obviously did it?"

Guess what? It many things look obvious; that does not mean that they are true. Those are just petty, stupid words once you've found out that you've condoned the execution of an innocent man.

And people that think that it can be easily reformed at out of their minds (this shouldn't be news to you shdo ;p). The legal system that most countries have are based on centuries, and even millenia of legal precedent. They do not and will not get magically or easily reformed.

[Shdo]

i am talking about the costs, not the procedures. i dont really see a reason why the system need to pay 700,000$ for a murder case that end with execution and in a reguilar murder case only 70,000$.

[bradc]

i am talking about the costs, not the procedures. i dont really see a reason why the system need to pay 700,000$ for a murder case that end with execution and in a reguilar murder case only 70,000$.

Say you robbed a bank for example; how much money from the government does it take to run a bank? How much money does it take to find the culprit to execute the person? Is about the same cost for robbing a bank and executing the person who robbed that bank.

Nothing is easily reformed than a single performance on stage.

[Babbo]

i am talking about the costs, not the procedures. i dont really see a reason why the system need to pay 700,000$ for a murder case that end with execution and in a reguilar murder case only 70,000$.

People need to be payed, and defendants can go through multiple appeals, each time costs money, and do so for years, in other cases they may just be happy to cut a plea or take the jail time, less litigation means less money.

and um...Bradc? In most countries bank robbers aren't sentenced to death >.>

[bradc]

People need to be payed, and defendants can go through multiple appeals, each time costs money, and do so for years, in other cases they may just be happy to cut a plea or take the jail time, less litigation means less money.

and um...Bradc? In most countries bank robbers aren't sentenced to death >.>

Of course not! Jailing a bank robber would cost less than what gets taken to court; the execution be cross-examination by a Prosecutor Attorney and Defense Attorney. If those are lucky will get a Preliminary Hearing before the Trail takes place for another year based on their crimes and punishment for fair trail with 6 or 12 Jury taken place that are random picked by hand from different parts of the city.

[Shdo]

People need to be payed, and defendants can go through multiple appeals, each time costs money, and do so for years, in other cases they may just be happy to cut a plea or take the jail time, less litigation means less money.

and um...Bradc? In most countries bank robbers aren't sentenced to death >.>

ofcourse they need to be paid, but ten time more? appeal once or twice, but it seems like they have 10 trials, full ones.

[bradc]

ofcourse they need to be paid, but ten time more? appeal once or twice, but it seems like they have 10 trials, full ones.

Silly...

The court have four appeals: Preliminary Hearing, Appeal, Jurisdictions and Verdict. If you are lucky enough not to be sentence to death from what was written on paper under the fine print of the law and simply to obey them under Crown.

One would rather see the circus than the courtroom; since there no clowning around and nothing is appealing what is inside and outside of it either, when it comes murder and serial killers from within the society itself.