Global Climate Change

[earthforge]

My brother did a paper on it a year ago and I have to do a paper for english on it this year.

So is it real? Or is it a liberal hoax?

Note: I'm posting my opinions later.

[Shdo]

i think its real, and that a bad thing, saying that its bullshit where all scientific studies shows that we are heading to a global destruction is really blind.

we should worry about it and start moving resources to study and find cleaner methods and recycling technolegies.

[Rain]

I think it is a real problem

although the general wording of "global warming" has given it a less effective repuation (so many people are quick to dismiss it because it isn't always hot)

[Primera Espada]

The reason they started using "global climate change" in the first place is because when everyone thought it was heating up, they found out that often enough it was cooling DOWN.

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooli ng/article10866.htm

A fascinating, interesting article that reports official temperature changes over the last year that rival the increase for the past century.

It also points out that while greenhouse gases do have an effect, the overall impact they have is *much* smaller than the media would have you believe, and that the large majority of climate change is related to solar activity, as has been suggested through historical accounts of pre-industrial age cooling and warming.

I suggest people read as much scientific data as they can, rather than reading the impressions of politicians or popular scientific names. Often the impressions these people get of the problem are over exaggerated in order to facilitate a solution.

[beautiful_death]

I think the global climate change problem is real. It's not just global warming, but also random pockets of cooling (it even snowed in Baghdad not too long ago, and it's a desert). There are so many factors that contribute to such drastic climate changes--greenhouse gases, solar activity, change in the tilt of the Earth, etc.

The interesting part is how we tackle this issue.

[Primera Espada]

well, for one, the article I linked mentions the snowing in bahgdad, two, it also mentions the overall drop in world temperature this year.

what did you mean by "pockets" did you mean intervals, or locations?

[beautiful_death]

Primera: I meant intervals.

If Baghdad had snow, then I've got a strong feeling that L.A. might experience some flurries sometime in the near future.

[WinterLove]

I read a couple books on the topic of Global warming, and I believe that it is happening. There is a lot of evidence pointing towards it, such as the icecaps melting, inland lakes being completely dried up, and raising temperatures in some parts of the world.

Most people (who think Global warming is happening) believe it be human activity that has spurred Global Warming froward, which I believe is true. With all the pollution people create by burning fossil fuels and the chemicals we use, it creates Carbon Dioxide that gets trapped in the Earth's atmosphere. Another factor is the Ozone layer , which protects Earth from the sun, but also keeps all the gases inside the planet. So, the carbon has nowhere to go. And because of deforestation, there are not enough plants to suck up the Carbon and replace it with oxygen.

The sad part is, according to a lot of experts, there is no actual way to stop Global Warming once it starts. All we can do is slow by cutting back on fossil fuels and finding better sources of energy.

[Sinta]

I think there are changes but I don't know much of is actually caused by humans beings though I haven't done a ton of research on the subject. I know that many people are becoming less and less concerned with it as they experience some of the coldest winters ever recorded. I have noticed that the language and tag phrases have changed from "global warming" to "climate change" so i don't know how concerned I am about it. I think we need to find a way to burn less fossil fuels because that would make the U.S more independent, I guess i'm just not someone super concerned with the environment. (But heck maybe I should be)

[Midare]

My brother did a paper on it a year ago and I have to do a paper for english on it this year.

So is it real? Or is it a liberal hoax?

Note: I'm posting my opinions later.

My opinion is that real, but not "that" real.

What I mean by this is, basically, even if when are now witnessing this right here, right now, we all are forgetting about something: Climate changes already happened before, around 60 billions of years ago. In those times, which now are tropical areas were covered of ice for example, in the "Ice Age", while in other ages the earth was even more hot than some of the hottest areas of the planet. The only difference is that vback then the human race was not there, even if there were humans on the Ice Age but of course, is not like we have official records, even when it was proved scientifically.

With all the pollution people create by burning fossil fuels and the chemicals we use, it creates Carbon Dioxide that gets trapped in the Earth's atmosphere.

This is also true. Even when the climate change is something that was meant to happen (I'm an strong believer that everything goes in constant and never-ending cycles), it looks like the pollution thanks to mankind's progress is helping to accelerate this process, but regardless of this pollution, I think that climate change will happen eventually, but as I said, maybe the proccess minus the pollution it would have take much more time before actually being noticed.

[emoloz]

Yes its happening but I think most of it was meant to happen but pollution and wreckage of the Earth I think has sped up the process a little too much so we have begun to notice it.

I think global warming is a wrong term to use climate change is a better thing its more like Gases change if you really think about it because the winters are getting bitterly cold as well as the hot weather being warmer.

Like the rise in sea levels is one that has been boosted by pollution because its making the Earth warmer thus more ice caps melting.

Freak weather is one which I would say would happen anyway but again pollution had increased this due to the increase in water levels thus more evaporation = rain. Then because the weather is too warm and there is too uch pressure in the air were getting freak storms and torrential rain.

Wind and stuff am not sure but i guess that could be due to the excess gasses in the air but then again never looked into that as much so yeah.

The seasons are changing months which I think too would happen eventually anyways the Earth has to have some sort of change. I don't know if people have realised this in other parts of the world but i sure have. Like summer was later last year and winter and like as i would call it autumn for us have switched places and collided and what not then we've had a day like spring which is now changing to cold. It's like seasons just aren't correct anymore. This can be blamed by pollution because its putting pressure on the weather as well.

I think we need to cut down on carbon amisions and just learn to deal with other forms or making energy like wind turbines and stuff. Yes there ugly and people claim they make tonnes of noise but that's better gases running the Earth far worse than what they are.

No one really knows what to do because we rely so much on gas but people just aren't willing to put the money they'd rather spend it on crap like wars and stuff we don't even really need like celebrities being paid millions of £$€ etc. Whoever says nuclear is a good idea can get that out of there brains as well. Where we going to stuck the crap from that? We can't just chuck it in space as it will eventually turn back on us.

[earthforge]

emoloz: I think it's a bit to early to tell if it's meant to happen. We have no idea where it is in the cycle of a star, though I personally think it's early for any major increase.

In a nut shell, extremes start occuring. But I posted that only for scientific "nutrality". I had to do that in my paper, though I found it endlessly amusing because the atmosphere on average is becoming warmer. You are talking more about personal experience. It's not really excess gases as much as excess carbon dioxide. The trend is pretty much just between those two.

Exactly! I'm glad you brought that up, because it has a huge impact on bird species. This shift I think is driven by the migration patterns of most birds moving farther to the North. That causes erratic nesting times. Take the Clapper Rail. I estimate that its patterns will change from climate change and suffer from either their nesting habitat (a cordgrass, S. foliosa) being to young and short for them to nest in or being farther in the cycle and starts dying off while the Clapper Rail is still nesting in it.

Nah, leave the nuclear stuff to the space program. It's a good idea for a shuttle or other space vehicle engine, but not for energy on Earth.

midarae: There are no conclusions you can really draw because that data has many invalidities. But you are right, I believe this process would have started 3000 years in the future because that is when the sun would start to change.

Saying we had it coming actually is not true. We brought it on and now see the problems. We can fix that, but to quote "all of us are dumber than some of us."

Sinta: You honestly remind me of a guy in my Gothic Novel class.

Driving a hybrid or anything but an SUV would help. Changing light bulbs. And look for ways to influence your community on this issue. Problem is that many adults are so into themselves they don't even notice what is going on.

Winter love: Wrong.

For starters, you are partly right. The effects of global warming will continue if we even stop all carbon dioxide emissions right now for at least two centuries. But it would still end. Don't become despairing. It will return.

But when it does, we will probably be dead. And the atmosphere would be highly calloused from this experience. Several species will probably go extinct as well, maybe even the California Clapper Rail. It has a mora, thoughl: don't screw up, don't vote in the village idiot (which Americans love to an absurd amount to do), and next time something goes off the scale do immediate studies.

Primera: Exactly.


Side Note: Anyone who says global warming is depressing should be slapped immediately. I am frickin tired of people whining about that. Face the problem, god damnit!

[Unicorn]

Side Note: Anyone who says global warming is depressing should be slapped immediately. I am frickin tired of people whining about that. Face the problem, god damnit!

So what are your views on global warming? On the first page, you mentioned that you're gonna write more about it but didn't.

[Rain]

alright, im not trying to single out earthforge or anything, but i saw something and needed to comment

Driving a hybrid or anything but an SUV would help

sadly, just this can be very incorrect

SUV's do indeed get far worse gas mileage, and release far more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere per gallon burned, but driving less SUV's isn't necesarily right

lets say you buy a hybrid to prevent this pollution. And you know it pollutes less, so you are willing to drive more, and since they get such better mileage, you are willing to drive alot more

well, by driving this hybrid, you are still releasing Co2 into the atmosphere, and there is a point when you drive that hybrid so much it will pollute more than the SUV

ill try to explain better with this:

lets say you have an SUV, and it gets 15mpg's, and puts in x amount of Co2 per galloon burned

and a hybrid gets 40 mpg's and puts in x/2 Co2

well the hybrid gets over twice the gas mileage, so now you may be less inclined to "conserve gas" and you might drive over-twice as much

if you do that, you'll put more Co2 into the atmosphere


this is an extreme exaggeration, but i think it illustrates the point.... just saying "drive hybrids and not SUV's" isn't a good way of looking at the problem

again, im not trying to single out anyone, or even say that hybrids are bad, but just giving such a simplistic suggestion can cause even more problems

[earthforge]

Unicorn: Believer. BTW on that point you quoted, I just felt highly touchy about. In my english class we talk about things from politics to climate change for essays. It threw me for a loop everyone was complaining about how depressing it was. Yet they were treating it as entertainment rather then a real issue. It pains me when I see that today. It's like the elections. People are being romantic/decadent about realistic things, yet highly/weirdly classicist about nonreal things (two words: pairing debate.)

I'll post when I get the time. You'll know that when I start posting in pairing analysis again.

Rain: I honestly pulled that. I really meant just SUV's. And besides, it's good you don't drive SUV's for other reasons as well. So that may have been my bias.

Etto, is carbon dioxide gas? I thought it was a different organic compound that was cumbusted. And it's true that if you put more into the hybrid then the SUV you will have a similar problem. But that only counts if you wish to drive farther. If you compare the SUV and hybrid over a certain distance with the same amount of gas, then which one will put out more?

I'm sorry, but since I have to finish some english and gothic novel tonight, I don't really have time to calculate the amount.

[Rain]

Carbon Dioxide is an oragnic compound (all compounds that contain carbon are) but its in a gas state, but its one of the compounds that isn't used in the engne, thats why it is removed from the vechicle by exhaust

and yes over the same distance or using the same amount of gas hybrids are far better in numerous ways, but because hybrids are less of a cost to the person. So they will be more willing to drive

because they (the hybrid owners) aren't feeling the effects as much, its rare that a hybrid driver will only the same amount or use only the same amount of has as say an SUV owner

I think of it this way..... you live 5 minutes from the store, and you need to pick something up.

You can drive an SUV, but that will be more costly, so you decide to walk (yes, this is assuming people would actually walk somewhere, and in the US this isn't true:p)

But the person who drives the hybrid gets great gasm mileage, and won't care about driving that extra amount

so, in this scenerio, the hybrid owner is doing more damage to the enviroment

I don't have the actual numbers (i wish i did) so i could see just how long it may take for a hybrid to pollute more than an SUV, but im releatively certain that it isn't some unreasonably high number

[emoloz]

earth forge: Personal experience I guess but without it how do you know that is is happening. I agree on the fact the Earth naturally does get warmer and such but what i am trying to say is with the extra pollution were producing this is making it much worse. It is down to personal experience because its happening to the whole world and we are all feeling the crunch and some strange effects of the Earth and without personal experience we can' define anything thats why i agree we are going through it.

It is now April and we have been getting snow. I don't even think we are going to see summer at all this year or if we are not for a long period of time the Earth has too much pressure from gases in the air and the rse in sea levels which are causing the cold weather and it to storm and rain a lot more.

This isn't just personal experience it has actual scientifically and geographical evidence to go along with it.

I agree with rain we need to get of our asses to walk. I do it and my carbon footprint is the lowest I have seen of any person i know because everyone drives or takes a bus. Its pure ignorance to the world around us. Plus you keep fit as well as an added bonush and its damn free. Could save a few pounds in weight and money and pollute less. Pure ignorance.

[bradc]

One of my uncle told me about a case scenario, where a guy created a full fuel efficient car, but there is a down side and karma effect to that climate change and environmental friendly effect. Because not only does it save gas but the if most people on the planet owns one of these cars, then it still does harm to the atmosphere as well; if there are too many of these fuel effecient and entirely environmental friendly cars are on the road.

I believe is mostly the technology and manufacturing industry can prevent this from getting worst. It would be better if local transportation could provide more transportation for the public for those travel at greater distance from home, work and shopping purposes, it has happened but the government system lacking the funding of money spending it elsewhere than helping it where it needs to be.

Not to mention with the gases prices up and inflation within the economy -- killing it as we speak; my own local transportation jacked up the price to $3 dollars for a bus fare; it's ridiculous to have people to ride more buses to save gas when prices are insanely high.

[moonflowers]

bradc, good point about public transportation systems. However, if gas prices are going up, the bus fare will have to go up too, since the bus also runs on gas. The hope is that by spreading out the cost of gas among many riders, the average cost to the individual is lower than if these individuals were all out there buying gas themselves.

The problem is that a lot of places just aren't very bus-friendly, especially suburbs, which are built to be sprawling and wide and thus hard to concentrate riders and routes in. People are moving into cities more now, though, and that's helping the situation some, especially in places with well-developed subway systems.

Rain, the point you raised about a hybrid potentially being worse because people might use it more is very legitimate.

I feel like the net effect would still be decrease, though. Considering that hybrids get around 40 mpg in city driving and SUV's around 12 mpg, it means that the hybrid driver suddenly needs to drive a bit more than 3x as much as they normally do to make it equally polluting (assuming both of them produce the same amount of CO2/gallon of gas).

The other reason I'd cite to not drive a SUV would be to minimize fatalities in head-on accidents with smaller cars, but that's not a global climate change-related issue.

[bradc]

bradc, good point about public transportation systems. However, if gas prices are going up, the bus fare will have to go up too, since the bus also runs on gas. The hope is that by spreading out the cost of gas among many riders, the average cost to the individual is lower than if these individuals were all out there buying gas themselves.

The problem is that a lot of places just aren't very bus-friendly, especially suburbs, which are built to be sprawling and wide and thus hard to concentrate riders and routes in. People are moving into cities more now, though, and that's helping the situation some, especially in places with well-developed subway systems.

Rain, the point you raised about a hybrid potentially being worse because people might use it more is very legitimate.

I feel like the net effect would still be decrease, though. Considering that hybrids get around 40 mpg in city driving and SUV's around 12 mpg, it means that the hybrid driver suddenly needs to drive a bit more than 3x as much as they normally do to make it equally polluting (assuming both of them produce the same amount of CO2/gallon of gas).

The other reason I'd cite to not drive a SUV would be to minimize fatalities in head-on accidents with smaller cars, but that's not a global climate change-related issue.

Problem still lies in the inflation of gas prices, which it's already the roots of all problem. The investors are investing their money on gas than elsewhere, and same for the government not helping to reduce the green house gases, and provide more money and time into its public transportation system; if you say the money was lower like 10 years ago, wouldn't more people be riding on buses to help the environment with the much more improved transportation system and subways to help those who live in the suburban areas?

There are still more cars on the street than public transportation.

The suburbs these days are growing more populace in their area because the city has becoming too overly crowded, which it's why people are moving more further away than closer to the cities, where it's more polluted and loud. When one go down to the city area, the temperature is actually warmer, than suburbs where the temperature is cooler.

[Inevitable.Exit]

don't screw up, don't vote in the village idiot (which Americans love to an absurd amount to do)Uh by "absurd amount" you must mean 2 terms? One of which is debatable if he won correctly?

Anyway. Global Warming seems to be an issue that people like to bring up lately. The facts are that it would take a massive switch in the entire worlds society to change our footprint enough to even matter. The world isn't a renewable resource. Just as the sun isn't. I'm not even sure what the debate is about. No society on Earth is going to make drastic enough changes to truly matter. And when they do, It will be already too late. Though most of us won't see a huge change in our lifetimes (maybe a few extinctions?) I don't really consider it something to be fixable, and rather one of those things that just is.

[moonflowers]

I understand your pessimism, Inevitable.Exit, but just because there's going to be a problem doesn't mean we should give up. Yes, it's going to take phenomenal change to make progress, but if you don't even start, that's guaranteeing us to suffer the consequences. As Wayne Gretzky put it, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

Plus, it's not even a black-or-white, all-or-nothing scenario. There are relative degrees of harm, and it'd be best to stay on the relatively low side. Even if our efforts can't completely alleviate the problem, every little thing that we can do to help is progress, and far better than throwing our hands up and quitting.

By the way, we will see changes in our lifetimes. Within the last century, scientists have noticed that plants are beginning to flower in spring earlier than expected (http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/2004/09-03/botanists.html). That means that within a typical lifetime of 90 yrs, biological spring has already started coming a week before it's supposed to. The effects are pretty profound, since the weather hasn't stabilized by then and late frosts are killing a lot of new buds. With more global warming, we can only expect this phenomenon to speed up - a whole month forward, perhaps, in the next 100 yrs?

@ bradc - Gas prices increasing are partly due to the fact that it's getting harder and harder to get oil out of the ground - it requires more sophisticated, and thus expensive, technology. There's a great NY Times article about it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/magazine/21OIL.html

[ookami]

Gordon Brown had talks with George Bush this week about how to combat climbate change or saying they were going to.

[bradc]

It's a global pandemic problem...

The earth goes through cooling and warming periods, where hell freezes over once a year and temperatures that changes on its own; not everything are entirely human problems. But everything are results of human failure that are catching up with us, and taking toll because we are fragile or how fragile we have become due to warfares and guzzling up oil that people think everything is in the Middle East.

Mother Nature still wins; if someone was tall enough to reach the sky to change the global air conditioner system, I would like to see someone try and do so. Simply because no one on earth can change what Mother Nature has in store for us. Thunder Godfather will just send lightening down at us when we misbehave, or get struck by its wrath. Is best to stay grounded where is safer and don't forget to buckle your safety belts.

No matter how far you reach, you won't be able to reach it.