The Stark FC

[Griffith]

THE STARK FC

Well we just learned the name of another espada in chapter 269 and his name is Stark. Others used to refer to him as Mugen, BAD, or Alan. He seems to be the laziest espada, probably indicating he is so strong that he does not need to worry about anything lol. He is the unconfirmed Primera Espada.

ALSO STARK MEANS STRONG IN GERMAN

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7595/stark2oh4.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8443/starkvq2.jpg
A couple of Attributes:
-His mask seems to be around his neck
-He seems to like to live a relaxed life
-Lilinet seems to be one of his underlings
-He also doesn't like people playing with his balls

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8811/starklili22fe9.jpg
1st Stark Fanart

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/914/starkyna3.jpg
Created by Raf ^^ (REP HIM)


Banners by Bronwen on NF:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/BronwenStx/starkbanner.gif

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2852/starkbannerqt4.gif

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7565/starkb2er3.gif

Owner: Griffith

Co-Owner: 仮面の軍勢 (http://www.bleachasylum.com/member.php?u=267)

Members:
1.) Mori
2.) Dice
3.) Slev
4.) Geta Boshi
5.) Nama
6.) Shannon
7.) Yanniv
8.) Kiriya
9.) Primera Espada
10.) Jhaxe
11.) Shirosaki
12.) Tomodachi69
13.) Nightmare
14.) Cloud_17
15.) JebbaChan
16.) Raf
17.) EternalDream
18.) Avi
19.) Tenonee
20.) Rain
21.) Vegeta_19
22.) xxeclipsexx
23.) Stark Espada
24.) Kurai YoruNeko
25.) flower
26.) Reikie
27.) WatanukiXXX
28.) Twsl
29.) Vizard_King
30.) AnimegirlPan
31.) Zomari Le Roux
32.) Envy's Boy
33.) Desan
34.) MelodyMix
35.) Ceath
36.) Flying Banana
37.) Malaena
38.) ~Vizard/Espada~

[Sola]

I agree! He is No.1! Can I be co-owner?

[mori]

I wish to join for great justice

[Dice]

I want to join too please. ^_^

[Griffith]

welcome everyone fixed the first post... I owned the stark fc on NF.. so i just added the banners to this one.

[Sola]

Sweet! I joined this in NF too!

[Slev]

I'm going to have to join this FC.

[Dice]

Um, Griffith, you know you could ask Justine to make a Stark colorbar if you wanted to in the art section. I hope there are enough panels though. She's been making colorbars for a lot of pairings and characters so I'm sure she won't mind. ^_^

[Griffith]

welcome slev ^^

@Dice: I might go ask, but there not many stark panels, really most of them consist in the stark and his balls scene with Lilinette lol.

[Dice]

Welcome Slev ^_________^, I'm glad you joined this fc.

and @Griffith: yeah I guess you should wait for a few more panels for you to request it.

[Geta Boshi]

Badly needed to get my mind of things ended up coloring this

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2116/untitledw1zh5.jpg

[Sola]

Wow that looks amazing! Gj!

[Griffith]

It looks great Geta ^^, I like how simple it looks.

[Nama]

I haven't joined? >< ...Then count me in, please. Stark's amazing, I'm looking forward to see more of him. :)

[Shannon]

JOIN! >:O
You know, Stark is so awesome. If stark means strong in German, he should be of pretty high rank.

[Griffith]

Welcome Nama and Shannon ^^

[yanniv]

stark-
Archaic. strong; powerful

Means the same in English as well. Joinage por favor.

[Griffith]

Welcome Yan ^^

[kiriya]

joinage please, he seems like a mixture of shunsui and a rock star, he's cool!

[Primera Espada]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/mrnicepants/Drawings/Duo2.jpg?t=1183891057
An old pic I drew the weekend the chapter came out, now I have a scanner, so I'll get a "clean" version soon.

And yah, I want in this club ;)

[Griffith]

Welcome Kiriya and Primera Espada ^^

[Jhaxe]

Stark is an' int'resting character. May I request t' join the FC?

[Griffith]

Welcome Jhaxe ^^

[Jhaxe]

Thank ya' much. I look forward t' havin' some int'resting conversations as Stark's character is revealed more. -^^-

[Shirosaki]

joins

i was forced here

:/

[Griffith]

Yay welcome Shiro ^^

[Tomodachi69]

/join

I need more Stark. In a few chapters, hopefully? XD

[Jhaxe]

Hello Again, Tomodachi! Yeah, I want t' see more Stark too...He seems like an int'resting character.

[Tomodachi69]

lol, hello again.

He does seem very interesting. I love how all he seems to care about is sleeping and relaxing. His design is great, too.

[Jhaxe]

He seems pretty comical too XD

Like the part where Lilinet stepped on his balls XDDDD

[Griffith]

welcome Tomodachi69 ^^

[Tomodachi69]

Thanks, Griffith ^^

[NightMare]

Can i join?(the dude is cool)

[Griffith]

Welcome Nightmare ^^

[Cloud_17]

joinage!!!

[Griffith]

welcome cloud_17 ^^

[JebbaChan]

Can't wait to see Stark kick major ass:) Sign me up ;)

[Jhaxe]

Yay! Unofficial Welcome new peoples! -^^-

[Griffith]

Welcome Jebba <3 ^^

[Raf]

I'd like to join, I did this fan art :P

Clickage -> http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/4463/starkcopyyh7.th.jpg (http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=starkcopyyh7.jpg)

[Griffith]

welcome Raf nice fanart ^^

[Jhaxe]

Stark art! That's awesome! =O

[Griffith]

we should have a hunt for stark fanart lol... people who find them gets reps lolz

[Jhaxe]

XD There's really not enough Stark artz out there. Though I believe once he reappears in the manga there will be more. We just haven't seen enough of him.

[Tomodachi69]

Ooh, nice Stark fanart :D

Yea, once he appears in the manga again and does more that sleep and complain about his balls, there'll be more fans, for sure.

[EternalDream]

I'd love to join! I did claim the guy after all...^^;;

[Griffith]

lol welcome EternalDream ^^

[Avi]

Stark :eek: Sign me up Shinji-fanboy Griff :3

[Jhaxe]

Avi! Yay! -^^- Unofficial Welcome!!

[EternalDream]

Thanks for the welcome^_^

Hopefully we'll see more of Stark soon, so we'll have more to talk about. XD (learning about the other Espada would be nice too^^)

[Griffith]

Welcome Avi ^^

and yeah Eternal it would be nice to see more Stark but looks like it won't be anytime soon. Due to Noitora action and Ulqui soon to get out.

[EternalDream]

and yeah Eternal it would be nice to see more Stark but looks like it won't be anytime soon. Due to Noitora action and Ulqui soon to get out.

Well, I'm thinking/hoping Stark ranks in the top 3, so the only number we have left of the lower ranks is 7 (unless the debate about Noitora's 5/2 is still going:rotflmao). I'm guessing we'll get to know who Espada Siete is before seeing more of the upper Espada (sans Halibel, since I'm hoping she's also a higher rank;))

[NightMare]

Stark in my opinion is the 2nd Espada

[Tenonee]

Ooh, ima bump this thread n say joinage plz!!! Lazy pwnage ftw

[Shadoblak]

Hm....okay he seems more interesting than I initially though....By chapter 270's spread I'd guess he's either 1 or 2
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/shadoblak/starkweathwe.jpg
Also his sword looks badass from the hilt...

[Tenonee]

Didnt even notice him in that spread lol, and yea the hilt is win, i can even imagine him losing in a fight, if he does i bet he'll just sorta give up and go back to bed.

[NightMare]

Yeah his sword is very cool

[Rain]

I'd like to join.

I also think (and want) he is in the top 3, but I wouldn't be suprised if he was number 7

[yanniv]

@Shado

Yeah, dude, that picture is simply amazing. The hilt looks amazing and his face is all so serious like he is about to f' someone up.

I don't see where Stark can come in. Everybody seems to be occupied for a good set amount of chapters for a while. So it might be a while till we get to see anything about Stark.

[Vegeta_19]

joinage!!!

[Griffith]

Welcome Tenonee, Rain, Vegeta ^^

[NightMare]

I want to see Stark in action i am curious what kind of power he has

[Rain]

I bet stark's powers are centered around being very fast (sonido and such). It makes no real sense but nevertheless it works:D.

[Griffith]

here is some stark fanart found by Vampiredude on NF, he posted it in the stark fc I own there lol:

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs21/f/2007/234/1/2/chibi_lazy_brothers_by_Koklico.jpg

[NightMare]

What the....?The dude is very lazy:D

[Tenonee]

That fanart is win

[Griffith]

alright more fanart lol

http://kitton.net/LN/LN489.gif

http://kitton.net/LN/LN487.gif

[Rain]

that's some awesome fanart- he looks so deadly/evil

[xxeclipsexx]

may i join^^

[Griffith]

welcome eclipse ^^

[stark espada]

Could I please Join and I believe he is one.

[Rain]

Unoffical welcome to the FC

[stark espada]

Thank you.

[Griffith]

welcome stark espada

[stark espada]

Thank you.

[NightMare]

Welcome stark espada

[stark espada]

Thanks so what is the subject.

[Rain]

Anything you want it to be;) I'd say we could all take guesses as to what kinds of powers starkk has

[stark espada]

From looking at him and guessing he is one I would say he is a tiger or lion in reals e form. But that is just me.

[Griffith]

lol I say give him wings and make him look like femto in berserk LOLZ as his released form

[stark espada]

That would be awesome if he was but I think they will all be some form of animal or bug. And like its said on the first page in German his name means strong witch is a good indication for his rank in the espada.

[Kurai YoruNeko]

*snaps out of daze* Oh. Ooh a Stark FC. Magnificent! Mind if I join...? *big sleepy grin* *puts head down on desk*
......
....few hours later....
*head snaps back up* AGH! Sorry guys; hope I didn't drool or anything, you know that narcolepsy...

^ (as you can probly tell, Stark & I are like opposite-gendered versions of each other XPP ---must show support for my slothful kindred spirit!!)

[stark espada]

unofffical welcome Kurai YoruNeko

[flower]

Kurai, does that mean that you, like Stark, will PWN ALL when you decide to wake up???

Since I just said that... joinage, please? :D

[Griffith]

Welcome Kurai and Flower ^^

[Kurai YoruNeko]

thanks for the add! and flower, who knows...I could be the long-lost all-pwning sister of Stark XP...*slump onto desk again & starts snoring like there's no tomorrow*

[Riekie]

Hahaha I dunno if I joined or not but..JOINAGE please!:yell

He's soo cute in a way..gah..and I just know he's the primera espada, he must!!:yell

Go Stark!!

oow..and thinking about his 'personality' as in: sleeping all the time I think he's a Lion, well..his released form. It makes so much sense. all Lions do is sleep and make the female go and get the grub;)


EDIT: Q. When is the first time Stark actually says something in the manga? is that in chapter 269 or before that? Thanks in advance;)

[WatanukiXXX]

I'd love to join this FC!

Stark has to be Primera or Segundo...Anyone who can let his subordinate get away with squishing his balls must be incredibly confident/assured in his strengths and abilities :D

[stark espada]

Welcome every one who wants to join and the first time stark spoke is the reason I think he is prima because at the meeting he told every one to shut the F**k up.

[Griffith]

Welcome Riekie and Watan

[flower]

Welcome fellow newbie members! :glomp

I say Stark is #1 because he is always so sleepy. Someone who is nervous about their standing would NOT be napping.

Also, since all the Arrancar are hollows that have been screwed with by Aizen, I'm thinking that perhaps Stark's sleepiness serves as a sort of "limiter". Remember how the Gotei 13 captains and vice captains have a limiter to prevent their reiatsu from messing up souls in the real world? Maybe Stark is just so damn powerful that it would screw up the balance of spirit pressure in Hueco Mundo (maybe even influence the hougyoku) if he were always fully awake and alert.

[Riekie]

Thanks for the welcome guys and I really like your theory Flower, makes alot of sense to me. Like when Aizen said that he had to think constantly to not let his reiatsu flow to not crush the ants under his feet (or something like that) can be applicable to Stark as well, or he's just tired and lazy because there's nothing to do and doesn't feel like doing anything because he is so powerful.

[stark espada]

What flower says is what I said along time ago about stark and yes it makes perfect since If you think about it and he was shown when wonderwice was being made but if you noticed it he was standing a bit back from it all unlike the other espada who were close up. Also my other theory for him being 1 is that he told every one that he just woke up so shut the f**k up at the meeting of the espada.

[Riekie]

@ what meeting and in which chapter does that occur Stark espada? I only know of one meeting and that's in chapter 245

[Nocturne]

I'd like to join this FC. In the Espada rankings thread I ranked Stark as the #1 Espada because lazy = strongest in my world. XD

[Riekie]

Aah an unofficial welcome to Nocturne here!:hugs

and yesh, that's the same in my book:D

[WatanukiXXX]

Thank you Flower, Rieke, stark Espada and everyone else!

With all the recent revelations on how fluid Espada rankings can be and how easily an arrancar can lose and even re-acquire them, I am wondering just what quality makes Stark so damn confident that he can afford to be sleeping?

Noi went after Nell when she was 5 places above him all because he hated women leaders. Szayel conspired so he could get back in. We all saw what happened with Grimjow and Luppi (poor Luppi :( )

The Espada are a backbiting twisted lot who would sell their own mothers for a higher number. Yet Stark if he is primera, can afford to sleep, and has a dainty waif of a subordinate too.

I can only think he is incredibly strong/powerful to a god-like degree. It's like the saying goes, "Where does a 1000 pound Gorrilla sleep? anywhere he wants to.." *


*I may have twisted the saying somewhat:o

[stark espada]

Thank you Flower, Rieke, stark Espada and everyone else!

With all the recent revelations on how fluid Espada rankings can be and how easily an arrancar can lose and even re-acquire them, I am wondering just what quality makes Stark so damn confident that he can afford to be sleeping?

Noi went after Nell when she was 5 places above him all because he hated women leaders. Szayel conspired so he could get back in. We all saw what happened with Grimjow and Luppi (poor Luppi :( )

The Espada are a backbiting twisted lot who would sell their own mothers for a higher number. Yet Stark if he is primera, can afford to sleep, and has a dainty waif of a subordinate too.

I can only think he is incredibly strong/powerful to a god-like degree. It's like the saying goes, "Where does a 1000 pound Gorrilla sleep? anywhere he wants to.." *


*I may have twisted the saying somewhat:o


well the sleeping thing is another reason I mean like you said you can lose and gain it all so quick that since he is so lax that it dose not matter to him. also here is what I was talking about. http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s169/sasorixd99/1.jpg

[flower]

:D Yeah, I can see at the end of this arc, all craziness breaks loose and Stark comes strolling in looking :mad: and says.....


"You all.... WOKE...ME...UP..."

Nuclear Cero

[stark espada]

:D Yeah, I can see at the end of this arc, all craziness breaks loose and Stark comes strolling in looking :mad: and says.....


"You all.... WOKE...ME...UP..."

Nuclear Cero

That would make for the funnest yet coolest ending to an arc in the history of arcs I mean nuclear one would just pwn every one in the area.

[Riekie]

Hahahahahaha soo PMSL here Flower!:D hahahaha Major rep coming your way!

But ehm...what chapter was that from stark espada?

sucks...gotta spread it around:(

[stark espada]

its the one before the major metting when halibel and noi were fighting at the table.

[Riekie]

Yaah, that's very sweet of you to say what happens but I can't find the chapter:D do you know which number?

[WatanukiXXX]

@Rieke

Its chapter 244 :cool:

We see the Espada gathering. And at the end a gloved guy with his hands on the table says

"Shut up...I'm tired so stop talking so damn loud" (Ju-Ni translation)

...and everyone shuts up till Aizen arrives.

Gloved guy is Stark :D

[Riekie]

Ooooowww! Thanks so much WatanukiXXX! Kyaaa off to read it right away:D

[WatanukiXXX]

Your welcome Rieke :)

Now I wanna put forward a stronger case for why Stark is Primera Espada, not just based on gut instinct ("he's lazy therefore he's strong!") but based on canon hints and clues provided in the manga. I'll be usng the Ju-Ni Scanlations
This is all speculation really but whatthehell...it helps till Stark's next appearance scheduled for next year :( :rofl

Reason 1

The infamous Espada tea party. Yes I know Stark made an earlier appearance when Wanderweiss was hougyoko-nised, but nothing much, if at all, could be gleaned from that anyway. Instead i want to focus on his second coming so to speak. All pics from Chapter 244:

http://aycu38.webshots.com/image/32597/2003608885599133475_rs.jpg

The person wearing the gloves just told a roomful of the strongest most dangerous creatures in Bleachdom to STFU...and they all complied. The next person to actually say anything is Big Bad Aizen himself ("Good Morning!")

Before that we get a pan of the whole table. Stark is clearly seen for the first time. He's wearing the gloves in this little gathering.

http://aycu36.webshots.com/image/32835/2003617857920121418_rs.jpg

Chapter 244 establishes that unnamed glove guy has some, no matter how slight it is, semblance of authority over the others. Hollows, menos, Espada/Arrancar are creatures that are governed by the rule of might makes right. This is what we have seen up to now. For glove guy to have authority he must have some back-up, either his own strength or that of another.

Since we know Aizen does not care for weaklings and that to him everyone is a tool, one tool is very much like another. If it breaks it can be replaced. So no dependence on Aizen there.

Recent chapters showing Espada rankings changing constantly attest to this. Therefore Glove Guy has to have authority based on his own strength. This strength must be considerable for him to be obeyed by a group of the most conniving, backstabbing and most lethal bunch of spiritual beings this side of creation.

Reason 2

I'll be using the panel theory along with some stuff of my own i threw in. The panel theory was devised by someone somewhere (i have seen it at a few forums) to estimate the remaining Espada rankings by looking at how the panels showing each Espada are grouped together. Espada who are close in rank are grouped together closer in panels. So all credit to whoever it was that came up with this theory.

The theory does seem to work for chapter 245. All pics from Chapter 245. The first page where the Espada speak with Aizen there:

http://aycu10.webshots.com/image/29849/2003635748444542345_rs.jpg

Notice that Espada 10 (Yammy), 9 (Aaroniero) and 8 (Szayel) are all grouped together with unnamed OG (Old Guy). Their reactions are also similar. All are tinged with contempt and underestimation. And reflect some part of their personality.

Yammy: "...tch" (I never went to school and learned basic grammar)
Aaroniero: "So they are...our enemies?" (No way! I got all dressed up for nothing!)
Szayel: "That's so uninteresting...really" (How can i experiment on those losers?...wait, on second thought the kid with the glasses is Hawt! :love)
OG: "...They're still youngsters" (In my day etcetc...zzzzz)

The point seems that if all the Espada on this page have broadly the same reaction and are grouped together then chances are that the OG is 7 or Septima. We have 8,9, 10 and OG. Since Grimm is 6th then OG should be the missing 7th.
Note how Aizen rebukes all four of them " Don't underestimate them" he says. In Aizen's eyes they are all together. Aizen's panel also serves as a boundary, dividing the lower half of the Espada (with OG, who could be part of them) and the upper half on the next page.
If OG is Septima then Stark can't be. So the lower half of the Espada is thus filled.

Then comes the next page:

http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/31556/2003606272678139618_rs.jpg

Ulquiorra, Nnoitra, Halibel and BG are all grouped together. Their dialogue leaves hints as to their personalities.

BG: "Four people...there is one missing. Who is it?" ( I am calm, composed and focused on the important things, like who my enemies are)
Ulquiorra: "Inoue Orihime" (...I can't get you out of my head..:inlove)
Halibel: "Didnt you hear him? Aizen-sama said we shouldn't underestimate them" ( I am cautious, analytical and I listen to the Boss)
Nnoitra: "So they came to save their little friend. That's great. Even if they look weak" (I'm a douche bag, perv, bully and misogynist. Go me)

Ulquiorra and Nnoitra are Fourth and Fifth respectively. If the panel theory holds true then BG and Halibel are either Second or Third. Why not First? well two more Espada are left. Grimmjow, whose number is already known and Stark.

He belongs to neither group. Interestingly enough Stark says nothing during the actual meeting itself. One can say that he actually abided by Aizen's original order to just listen:cool::

http://aycu39.webshots.com/image/31998/2003611129864822383_rs.jpg

Nor are there any single panels with Stark here in this chapter (see pics above). The other Espada, even Grimmjow, all have single panels devoted to them and to what they say. All except Stark. It's like he is singled out for some reason.
I surmise the reason is that Stark is important. He could be Aizen's (and Kubo's) trump card. I firmly believe that Stark is Primera Espada.

Reason 3

Chapter 269 shows the reaction to the death of Noveno Espada of the four still unranked Espada: OG, BG, Halibel and Stark

http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/31368/2003559226939014814_rs.jpg

Stark gets the lower panel, Halibel the upper and OG and BG who are nameless get squeezed in the middle. Coincidence? I doubt it.
I believe Halibel's upper level position reflects her relative importance to the plot. She is the only current female Espada. She has gathered three female fraccione who have been named. She is shown by Kubo watching Grimm and Ichigo fight. Relative importance? pretty high i suspect. In my view Halibel is Segundo.

Stark gets the lowest panel because he is the last Espada, Primera (until Kubo retcons stuff and adds a Zero Espada :crazy ;)). He is even more calm and composed, heck he's drooling in his sleep!. You can't get more calm than that.

http://aycu09.webshots.com/image/32928/2003504371529714564_rs.jpg

Halibel is calm and collected. BG is almost meditative in his posture. Utterly zen-like. OG, makes me even more certain he is a low-level Espada by brushing aside Rukia's accomplishments. Still underestimating the heroes.

http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/32227/2003509541029983578_rs.jpg

We are introduced to Lillinet. Assumption is that she is Stark's fraccione. Aside from looking like a paedo's wet dream she is on first name basis with Stark. No -sama here. She also abuses him in a sensitive place.
The relationship between Stark and Lillinet is less that of Superior and subordinate...more like older brother/younger sister. Or even father-daughter. ( i am not going the loli route..though that is possible, but for this moment no, just no).

The implications above are that if Stark can afford to have what appears to be a relative weak fraccione, then he must somehow compensate for her lack of strength. He must be strong enough for her and his sake.
Or
If one wants to be selfish, since Lillinete can't protect him in a fight he has to be overwhelmingly strong enough to be able to handle any opponent on his own.

http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/32972/2003597272996285729_rs.jpg

Notice how he seems to care for her feelings. Asking her what she thinks he should do. Other than the recent Nell/Neriel revelations (and the potential Ulq-Hime thing) we have never seen an Espada actually care about anyone else's feelings in such a reciprocal manner. Szayel being concerned about Aizen doesnt count, that was borne from fear.

The comedy, and the empathy Stark shows indicates that he may be closest to his humanity among all the current Espada. That may prove he is a VL, the highest stage of Hollow evolution that is speculated to be closest to 'human'. Stark's humanity therefore i believe, makes him a strong candidate to be Primera Espada. The delicious irony is that the strongest/most powerful Hollows are the closest to being human.

All of this is pure speculation and will most likely be trashed by Kubo's next revelation :che :wtf

[twsl]

stark ^___________________^;;; joinage please =DD

[Riekie]

Watanuki: Wow, just wow dude! I've always believed Stark to be No. 1 and if that's true then I'm almost certain my whole ranking is perfect, except for Nnoitra, being a party pooper and being quinta espada>.>

I also love your reasoning as to why Old Dude and Moe (BG) are ranked high and low, that's pretty impressive reasoning right there:D

Now...let's hope and wait for some Stark ownage, cuz I adore him!! Kyaa for strong male bad guys:D

[stark espada]

bravo someone finally completed the puzzle i set for others to do you were the first person who figured out what I did so good job all of these or the theory's that more then likely will make stark the 1st espada.

[Griffith]

welcome twsl ^^

[Nocturne]

Thanks for the welcome!

WatanukiXXX, that is an awesome post. Thanks for sharing with us. I've always had Halibel at #2, the only one I erred in is with Nnoitora 'cause I had him at 3. However I think I shared in the thread about Vastrolords that the top four exhibit the most human qualities or at least don't have that animal instinct one sees in the the Espada's 6 and below. At that time, we didn't know who #5 was. Anyway, if going by that, I had put Stark still at #1, followed still by Halibel, Black-chan, and finally Ulquiorra.

[Riekie]

Yeah, me too. Stark was always No. 1, Halibel, then Nnoitra (BG) and Ulquiorra.

Stupid Nnoitra not following my ranking:yell:yell:D

[stark espada]

All I know is like Wxxx has stated is my hole order theory has worked those far therefor if I was right stark will end up being the first espada.

[Raf]

Stark can now only be 1,2 or 3. And his appearences in the anime so far have mostly been great, his voice is good too.

[stark espada]

That is true the voice they choice sounds like a stronger persons voice witch makes me think more that he is 1 and he got every one to shut up.

[flower]

@Raf: Yup. I feel like Stark's just got to be #1 now.


@Stark Espada:
:D Yeah, I can see at the end of this arc, all craziness breaks loose and Stark comes strolling in looking :mad: and says.....


"You all.... WOKE...ME...UP..."

Nuclear Cero
That would make for the funnest yet coolest ending to an arc in the history of arcs I mean nuclear one would just pwn every one in the area.

Well, the first part of my prediction is coming true! :D

[stark espada]

@Raf: Yup. I feel like Stark's just got to be #1 now.



Well, the first part of my prediction is coming true! :D

Oh was it him being one since there is know a huge chance that he can be number 1

[flower]

Oh was it him being one since there is know a huge chance that he can be number 1

:p I meant the part where crazinesss starts to happen. (But I really do think Stark is #1) I can really see Stark showing up, since he seems to have some sort of authority/control. I remember Lilinet asking Stark if it was "OK" that Aaroniero got killed. (Manga spoiler comment) Maybe Stark will decide that it's not OK for Nnoitra and Leroux, and Szayel to all get killed too...

[stark espada]

:p I meant the part where crazinesss starts to happen. (But I really do think Stark is #1) I can really see Stark showing up, since he seems to have some sort of authority/control. I remember Lilinet asking Stark if it was "OK" that Aaroniero got killed. (Manga spoiler comment) Maybe Stark will decide that it's not OK for Nnoitra and Leroux, and Szayel to all get killed too...

I think that is true he did get asked if it was ok for aa to be killed and he replayed what do you want me to do about it. Also I belive that szayel and nnoitra are to far gone and that they will be killed (yammy to should be next) but I think leroux is going to not be killed and that the remaing espada(excluding yammy) will be left to live and all this could be done by the first espada(stark maybe) and survive to the winter war.

[flower]

Hey, did you all see this pic of the Espada from the Bleach '08 calendar?
It has a small but pretty hot (IMO) picture of Stark:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e282/mellomuse/bleachbespada.jpg

Love Stark's look and the arched eyebrows! This and other pics of the Bleach '08 calendar (including my sig pics) are courtesy of Yorleni on LiveJournal: http://yorleni.livejournal.com/29739.html?thread=291627#t291627

Of course, Grimmy doesn't look half bad either :love but I'd better go to another FC to gush about that, heh.

[Griffith]

oh wow thanks for those flower ^^

[WatanukiXXX]

Ah well. So the panel theory is wrong. Kubo put Zomari LeRoux and OG in the respectuve panels purely to screw with our minds. Gawd i sometimes hate him :p

Nevertheless...the reason i usd the panel theory wasnt to prove Espada ranking, but to prove that Stark could not be 7 (i argued OG was 7). So it is irrelevant that the theory is debunked now. Canon says Zomari LeRoux is Septima therefore Stark is one of the top three Espada.

(after having Tesla die and OG confirmed as top three, this consolation is good enough i suppose)

I am seriously afraid that Kubo has OG as Primera. Look at the Captain vs Espada matches now. Zaraki vs Nnoitra, Mayuri Vs Szayel, Byakuya vs Zomari (admittedly this one shocked me...Zomarri a speedster, who'dathunkit?).

In all likelihood, this means Halibel is third and will face off against Soi Fong, and Stark will be Segundo and face off against Shunsui. That leaves OG vs Yamamoto.

If so...then a pox on Kubo's house! :p

I'm still holding out hope that Stark is Primera (all my other theories have been blown aside these past few chapters)

(also I now believe in the crack theory that Wanderweiss is the true Primera Espada, although this requires OG to be Primera. Basically They both have crowns see, and Wanderweiss will replace OG cos..he's old and obsolete):D

[stark espada]

Ah well. So the panel theory is wrong. Kubo put Zomari LeRoux and OG in the respectuve panels purely to screw with our minds. Gawd i sometimes hate him :p

Nevertheless...the reason i usd the panel theory wasnt to prove Espada ranking, but to prove that Stark could not be 7 (i argued OG was 7). So it is irrelevant that the theory is debunked now. Canon says Zomari LeRoux is Septima therefore Stark is one of the top three Espada.

(after having Tesla die and OG confirmed as top three, this consolation is good enough i suppose)

I am seriously afraid that Kubo has OG as Primera. Look at the Captain vs Espada matches now. Zaraki vs Nnoitra, Mayuri Vs Szayel, Byakuya vs Zomari (admittedly this one shocked me...Zomarri a speedster, who'dathunkit?).

In all likelihood, this means Halibel is third and will face off against Soi Fong, and Stark will be Segundo and face off against Shunsui. That leaves OG vs Yamamoto.

If so...then a pox on Kubo's house! :p

I'm still holding out hope that Stark is Primera (all my other theories have been blown aside these past few chapters)

(also I now believe in the crack theory that Wanderweiss is the true Primera Espada, although this requires OG to be Primera. Basically They both have crowns see, and Wanderweiss will replace OG cos..he's old and obsolete):D
yes I am saying stark is still the most likely to be primera because again he seemed to hold power in the meeting all the old guy did was put them down and the old man could turn out as I say to be chads grandfather he some what looks like him just a bit and that chad will fight the old man it seems possible seeing as chad soon will be healed. Yes more then likely shunshi will fight stark thought I think stark will end the victor because it does not seem likely that yammato will face the espada more then likely aizen is who he will be challenging.

[Vizard_King]

Asking to join.
Hail Hail the Lazy Espada

[stark espada]

unoffical welcome Vizard_King also what do you think of me and WatanukiXXX theory above( want people to read it since it makes since).

[Vizard_King]

Thanks,Stark Espada. And Woot, Watanuki. xxHolicxx is a modern Clamp classic.
And yes, Stark Espada, your theory makes perfect sense. I think eather Stark or Halibel well be Number 1.

[stark espada]

As does more then likely every one in this fan club thinks that stark will be one and your welcome.

[Griffith]

Welcome Vizard_King ^^

[WatanukiXXX]

post by Vizard_King
xxHolicxx is a modern Clamp classic.

Welcome to the FC and youre getting reps for that Vizard_King:D

Most of us here are banking on Stark being Primera (as stark espada eloquently puts it). And yet, I am steeling myself for the possibility of Stark being Segundo or Tercera.

I see two scenarios:

1) Ichigo will fight Stark because he is Primera. It makes sense for the hero to go up against the strongest, bad-ass looking antagonist.
Ichigo vs Halibel won't work because this is shounen. The hero doesn't fight a woman as a rule.
Ichigo vs Old Guy won't work either because he is old and doesn't make a striking antagonist.

Ichigo will fight Stark because it will look impressive on paper. Anyone remember the pic of the Espada gathered with Stark and his zanpakuto hilt looking absolutely bad-ass (posted by shadoblak)? Imagine him facing Ichigo. If Ichigo is meant to face Stark then i believe that means Stark has to be Primera

2) Ichigo doesn't fight Stark. He is meant to fight Aizen/Gin/Tousen. Stark is there for the Captains to have viable opponents to fight and show off how cool they are. Then following the current trend of Captains being paired off with their Espada opposites we will have Stark as Segundo vs Shunsui and OG as Primera vs Yamamoto.

[Vizard_King]

Why thank you.
And All are likely scenarios. We well just have to wait and see witch one is right. Right now I'm hopeing they just save Inoue and get the hell out of there. They get home and train untill the Epic Winter War comes.
I have a feeling it is going to be One hell of a final battle.
Thats what I'm putting for my Fanfiction,anyway.

[AnimeGirlPan]

is it me or havent there not been very many parts for Stark yet?

[stark espada]

Ah yes vk the winter war something since it has been stated that has brought up much discussion amongst bleach fans well from the way hueco mundo is going as of right know it does not seem like it will happen unless aizen just gets a hole new group of espada once this is over(if he happens to not be beat now).

As xxx stated on paper it makes the most since that stark would fight stark as the others just would not make since by the way it looks thought yes it does seem that all espada will fight captions more then likely stark will be fighting Shunsui. But there is a possibility that stark will end up beating him and ichigo and crew come in to see a fallen shunshi its possible people said rukia had no chance of defeat and look what happened there.

Also as pan just said stark does seem to be the least seen espada another reason he could be 1 as the strongest is usually least seen are in the shadows I think that is another reason he could be 1.

[Vizard_King]

Well with the way things are going right now not even half of the Espada are dead. The Winter War still might happen, and personally I hope it well. And don't forget Aizen,Gin and Tosen. And they still have a Huge army of Arrancar that is growing every hour. Even withought the espada the Winter War well still somewhat be in favor of Aizen. And lets not forget how powerful Wonderwace (Or whatever his name is....) is. He has the potential for an Espada Rank.

[WatanukiXXX]

And lets not forget how powerful Wonderwace (Or whatever his name is....) is. He has the potential for an Espada Rank.

Wanderweiss is the true Primera Espada. Everyone else has been a massive deception by Aizen to hide his true living weapon that will WTFHXRPWN Soul Society and dance on Yamamoto's grave...I wish:D

@AnimeGirlPan

Stark has been in at least 4 chapters : 229. 244, 245, 269.

despite only appearing briefly, each appearence sheds more light on Stark's personality and his relations with other Espada and Arrancar.

in 229 he with the others watched Wanderweiss get Hougyokinised.

in 244 he tells his fellow Espada to shut up because he was tired and they do.

in 245 he is the only one that listens to Aizen (no talking) and is the only one with no single head shot)

in 269 he is sleeping till Lilinette mashes his balls. He is friendly towards her (we assume she is his Fraccione). She is on first name basis with him...no -sama honorific.

All this gives us a baseline idea to work with as to what role Stark will play in future.

The thing is...when I look at the 270 colour spread, especially the Stark profile, i just get chills down my spine. (it is posted by shadoblak on page 6 of this thread). His demeanour is completely different from the silly twit who got his balls smashed by Lillinette. Its full on game face and i pity the fool who has to take on that Stark.

I could see Stark wiping the floor with the Shinigami with just *that* look to be honest

[Vizard_King]

I noticed that too. I think He and Lilinette have a very close relationship.

[stark espada]

yes that picture above all others in that shoot just send chills down you back like he is saying in battle I am serious and will never loses and be nothing but serious. other then that I am a carefree person as seen with the insistent with lili.

[AnimeGirlPan]

also btw..havent i joined this fc yet..i think somebody should check the list to be sure

[stark espada]

pan you and I are both not on the list and I know I joined 2 months ago and this is the most this one has been talked in I think in quite some time.

Also what does every one think stark release might look like I am thinking something like a tiger or a lion.

[WatanukiXXX]

hmm

I really felt that Stark could be a Dragon or an Angel of Retribution (aka Uriel). Maybe even a Grimm Reaper-like creature.

The Dragon i am not really sure now. Mainly because of Gatenbein. At first I thought his resurrecion was that of an armadillo. However I read that his form is named Dragula (Dragon Fist, Dragon Devil). I don't think Kubo will introduce another dragon now.

the Angel of Retribution would so fit Stark if he was a Vasto Lorde. I just think that if Gillian are mindless monsters, adjuchas are animal/beast or plant-like Hollows then VLs are close to human, but not quite. Angels are human, albeit exaggerated uber-powerful beings. Stark as an angel would be awesome

Finally Stark as the Grimm Reaper. Well this is a preference of mine. He is the strongest Hollow in Hueco Mundo. And since we already have a mythological beast (gatenbein=Dragon) it would be cool if Stark is a personification of death.
I just think that if VL's are a step above adjucha then they shouldn't be animal or plant based Hollows like adjuchas, perhaps they can be human conceptions of Gods/Goddesses/Demons/Angels?...Figures of Myths and Legends given form.

Human-like yet utterly inhuman and not even close to being human?

my two cents

EDIT: A really good combo of my two preferences above I just thought of is Stark's release being the Angel of Death. I'd wet my pants if this happened :yell

[stark espada]

hmm

I really felt that Stark could be a Dragon or an Angel of Retribution (aka Uriel). Maybe even a Grimm Reaper-like creature.

The Dragon i am not really sure now. Mainly because of Gatenbein. At first I thought his resurrecion was that of an armadillo. However I read that his form is named Dragula (Dragon Fist, Dragon Devil). I don't think Kubo will introduce another dragon now.

the Angel of Retribution would so fit Stark if he was a Vasto Lorde. I just think that if Gillian are mindless monsters, adjuchas are animal/beast or plant-like Hollows then VLs are close to human, but not quite. Angels are human, albeit exaggerated uber-powerful beings. Stark as an angel would be awesome

Finally Stark as the Grimm Reaper. Well this is a preference of mine. He is the strongest Hollow in Hueco Mundo. And since we already have a mythological beast (gatenbein=Dragon) it would be cool if Stark is a personification of death.
I just think that if VL's are a step above adjucha then they shouldn't be animal or plant based Hollows like adjuchas, perhaps they can be human conceptions of Gods/Goddesses/Demons/Angels?...Figures of Myths and Legends given form.

Human-like yet utterly inhuman and not even close to being human?

my two cents

EDIT: A really good combo of my two preferences above I just thought of is Stark's release being the Angel of Death. I'd wet my pants if this happened :yell

If stark turns out to be a VL there is a big possibility that he will be a angel of death as you say I kinda was hopeping for that as well but if he is not a VL I would thing a tiger are a Lion would suit him not one of these freaky grantz are Le roux transformations.

[WatanukiXXX]

ah well.
301 had two spoilers. One had Stark in it and also a confirmation he was Primera. I'm not ashamed to admit that I was hoping this spoiler was true:cry

In any event, the revelation that Zommari was a bloody a pumpkin has me frightfully worried. Kubo being the insane freak that he is, might just make Stark into a cucumber, or brocolli, or even a carrot :wtf

Sigh...I am now convinced we wont be seeing Stark in any great capacity until at least Ulquiorra comes out and does his thang. That won't happen till the current Espada v captain matches are decided.

So I think Stark might make an appearance in April 2008, to commemorate April Fools day ;)

[Zomari Le Roux]

I'll join this FC. Stark is one of my favorite characters and also my favorite Espada.

[WatanukiXXX]

Unofficial Welcome :hug!

This FC is rather slow now ahahaha...last time Stark made an appearance was 29-30 chapters ago.

There isn't even a lot of Stark fanart around that can be posted.

So just come in and discuss whatever takes your fancy about the Gloved One!

[Zomari Le Roux]

Okies. Um...how about himand Lilinet being a total OTP? I mean, it's obvious Lilinet has the hots for him and Stark is a total pedophile. Just look at him. XD

[Vizard_King]

I just finished reading 301 and I didn't see the spoiler for Spark saying he's #1perhaps I am missing something?

[Zomari Le Roux]

I just finished reading 301 and I didn't see the spoiler for Spark saying he's #1perhaps I am missing something?

The spoiler was fake. What you just read was the real chapter, Stark free.

[Vizard_King]

ok, cool. I thought I had skiped half of the chapter.

[WatanukiXXX]

LOL

Duuuuuddde ! Even though that is related to Stark that is an issue I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole! :D

To be honest I didn't really get that vibe from 269. Granted the entire HM arc has up to now been pretty suggestive (Orihime's outfit. Nnoi's 'pet-sama', Loly and Menolly, Szayel, Neriel, Nnoi+Orihime mouthfingering etcetc) but Lilinette and Stark? I just didn't feel it.

They seemed closer to brother and sister? or maybe a weird father+daughter combo. We know that in SS Yachiru and Zaraki had this father+daughter thing going on so maybe this is the HM equivalent.

@Vizard King
Read the 301 spoiler thread first page. Before we had confirmation of the spoilers there were two posted. One is the real one and the other was a fake one. The fake one had Stark in it.

[Vizard_King]

Actually I can see Spark and Lilinette together. To me it's similer to Nanao and Shunsui.

[WatanukiXXX]

well if Lillinette was older than yeah I can see it too. Viable ship.

But Lillinette looks far too young. And far too boyish :headscratch

It could be a twisted HM version of Shunsui x Nanao, but i intend to reserve judgement till we see more of their interaction :cool:

[Zomari Le Roux]

well if Lillinette was older than yeah I can see it too. Viable ship.

But Lillinette looks far too young. And far too boyish :headscratch

It could be a twisted HM version of Shunsui x Nanao, but i intend to reserve judgement till we see more of their interaction :cool:

I think they're a couple. Or at least, close enough that they may have feelings for each other. I don't know, for some reason, this couples just shouts "OTP".

[WatanukiXXX]

ahh to each their own! :D

I actually prefer Stark x Halibel for some weird reason. Now that would be a very interesting relationship to see.

[Vizard_King]

That wouldn't be a bad pairing. I kinda like it.

[WatanukiXXX]

yep

If say Stark is Primera and is injured, she could be in two minds whether to kill him and take his place or heal him and stand by his side. Kill him or Kiss him (or err...worse :D)

We know Arrancar can feel attachments (maybe even love and jealousy: see Lolly and Menolly, Nell) so a love affair among Espada is not unreasonable.

[Vizard_King]

((Or better.)) Very true indeed. Aizen's Arrancar are more human-like than ever.

[Zomari Le Roux]

((Or better.)) Very true indeed. Aizen's Arrancar are more human-like than ever.

Except Aaroniero. He was just a crazy bastard who loved to hurt people.

[WatanukiXXX]

And Stark is clearly very human. Even in his proportions. If he was walking down the street in Karakura Town i don't think he would get a second glance, except to admire how cool-looking he is (and maybe check out his Hollow hole, but I digress).

Has anyone got any ideas why in chapter 245 we see single panels of all the Espada except for Stark? and he doesn't say anything either?

My idea is that Kubo is singling him out because he is special or he is Primera.

[Vizard_King]

Or it could be he was too tired to talk and he was takeing a catnap in his chair.

[Envy's Boy]

Hi! May I join this Fan Club? Stark is my favorite espada, second is Ully.

[WatanukiXXX]

ohh naah

He was awake. It would have been rude of him to take a nap while the Big Boss is right there lol

i just find it interesting we didnt get a single panel shot of Stark in this chapter (245) but everyone else got some face time :hm

[Vizard_King]

Maybe Kubo was hiding something from us.
Unofficial welcome, Envy

[WatanukiXXX]

Woops sorry Envy and belated unofficial welcome! :hug

I'd like to think Kubo is hinting at something with Stark in 245. Of course I am grasping at straws here and Kubo can easily make him the most useless, silliest Espada ever (see: Zommari le Roux) instead of being Primera or the most hax.

[Zomari Le Roux]

ohh naah

He was awake. It would have been rude of him to take a nap while the Big Boss is right there lol

i just find it interesting we didnt get a single panel shot of Stark in this chapter (245) but everyone else got some face time :hm

Mabye, Stark was contemplating about something. Mabye, just mabye, he could have been thinking about fighting them himself.

[Griffith]

ok added Zomari Le Roux, AnimegirlPan, and Envy's boy, if there is anybody missing pm me LOL ^^

[Desan]

Him and Halibel have been my favorite Espada since the meeting. We don't know much about either, but I really like his lazy style and character design. Please sign me up ^^

[Melodymix]

Can I join?

[Malaena]

Joinage for the primera's fan club!

He is definately primera...I don't think kubo will continue with the counterpart theme. I think he is just doing that with those 3 to screw with our minds about the top 3.

Besides...Stark is just so damn cool.:cool:

[WatanukiXXX]

Unofficial but Warm Welcome to Desan, Melodymix and Malaena :hug

Yep Stark's character design and what little glimpses we've had of his personality certainly make him (in my view) a pretty interesting character :D

EDIT: yeah a lot of us here are wishing and hoping fervently that Stark is Primera. The OG being first would just be soo incredibly cliche (well even more incredibly cliche than the lazy one being first :p )

[Ceath]

The Reason as to why Stark didnt speak during the Meeting:
Too busy dreaming and fantasizing about 101 thing to do to Lilinet(his jailbait Freccion). But hey that would also imply hes powerful enough to not be scared of Aizen finding him disrespectful and WTFPWNing his ass.

[WatanukiXXX]

Welcome Ceath :hug

It could be any number of reasons lol..he might have been picking his nose the entire time or farting in silence or just snoozing away with his eyes open :p:D

Whatever in-story reason we can come up with though, the fact remains that in chapter 245 Kubo highlights every Espada at the meeting by giving them a single frontal or side panel and they all say (or in Yammi's case, grunts) something. Even Tousen and Gin got some face time...although Gin's was a side shot and he didn't say anything.

All except Stark. There was no single panel of him and he didn't say anything. These two facts make him stand out. And yes I am readng too much into them :crazy :laugh

Just curious who thinks Stark is gonna be one of the Espada that survives? I think he will because he has been shown in a comedic situation and is very human in his interactions and responses to Lillinette.

Funny=Longevity ;)

we all know Ulq will probably survive cos he has a song out :yell:mad::rolleyes:

[stark espada]

Welcome Ceath :hug

It could be any number of reasons lol..he might have been picking his nose the entire time or farting in silence or just snoozing away with his eyes open :p:D

Whatever in-story reason we can come up with though, the fact remains that in chapter 245 Kubo highlights every Espada at the meeting by giving them a single frontal or side panel and they all say (or in Yammi's case, grunts) something. Even Tousen and Gin got some face time...although Gin's was a side shot and he didn't say anything.

All except Stark. There was no single panel of him and he didn't say anything. These two facts make him stand out. And yes I am readng too much into them :crazy :laugh

Just curious who thinks Stark is gonna be one of the Espada that survives? I think he will because he has been shown in a comedic situation and is very human in his interactions and responses to Lillinette.

Funny=Longevity ;)

we all know Ulq will probably survive cos he has a song out :yell:mad::rolleyes:
I thought way into it as well your not allone also I do think he will be one of the few who end up surviving he is just far to cool to be let killed still think he will be first espada thought know I am thinking he will be shown in the manga soon seeing as grantz might be dead and Nnoitora soon will be.

[Griffith]

alright everyone who is new has been added i believe ^^, if not let me know lol.

I just wish we could get some Stark action soon, bleach hasn't been my top priority lately.

I got a feeling we might get Byakuya vs Stark soon possibly.. though i would rather have Shinji show up and take him =(

[stark espada]

I got a feeling we might get Byakuya vs Stark soon possibly.. though i would rather have Shinji show up and take him =([/QUOTE]

That would be an awesome fight to see epically if byakuya ends up getting owned that would be the greatest fight thus far.

[Melodymix]

That would be an awesome fight to see epically if byakuya ends up getting owned that would be the greatest fight thus far.

OMG, Stark vs. Byakuya. That would be so awsome. But maybe Zaraki vs. Stark would be awsome too because I really do think he is the no. 1 Espada. Geez, what's taking KT so long to show his fight and his number -_-

[WatanukiXXX]

Stark would reduce Byakuya to ash..ok he'd just own him real good.

@Stark Espada
I have a feeling Byakuya will meet someone who will kick his ass soon enough. Never mind Stark, what about Ulquiorra?

Bya isn't high enough to face Stark IMHO. Stark is the guy the top three captains or Shinji faces, not a mid-tier pretty boy.

[Griffith]

I agree completely with you Wata ^^

[stark espada]

well I totally agree he is far to strong for byua but it would be great to see him owned so badly

[WatanukiXXX]

Ok haven't done one of these rambling ones in a while.

In trying to place the numbering of the last three Espada a lot of fans understandably talk about shonen conventions or cliches.

Many however make the assumption that all shonen conventions are similar or have the same socio-cultural significance.

When we look at so-called shonen conventions one of the most eminent is what i call the inversion rule e.g

where the weakling = turns out to be strong
where the idiot = turns out to be brilliant
where the bumbling sidekick = is actually the suave anti-hero
where the cute, dopey looking pet creature = turns out to be a powerful beast or fighter.
where the lazy sloth = turns out to be a powerful character
where the kid = turns out to be super strong
etc etc

there are loads of these in shonen -- it's a very convenient way for a mangaka to surprise his audience on weekly basis.

Now because fans are positively flooded with shonen manga for the past 10 years every kind of inversion has been seen, many twice. There is almost nothing original anymore (ok the Zommari one was pretty out there...but that's due to Kubo's insanity more than anything else). Many fans then assume that any inversion is cliche (e.g when Nell turned into Neriel there were people already decrying it as a cliche). Similarly when talking about Stark, Halibel and OG, folks go on about how cliche it is for a lazy guy to be strongest, or the woman, or the old guy.

I think this is wrong. Each of the three left represent a shonen convention, true. But each is in a different position cliche wise.

The Old Guy being the strongest or most bad ass is clearly the oldest convention in Asian pulp fiction. It's natural if this seeps into shonen. Kubo already shows us that Yamamoto is the strongest Captain of the Gotei 13. Would Kubo parallel this with the Espada by making OG Primera?

I say no for two reasons
1) It is the oldest convention. And the one most audiences expect to happen. Kubo always uses shonen cliches but twists them to suit his story. Yama-ji's position is not just the strongest, but as the leader of the Gotei 13. His opposite number is Aizen, not the Primera who in many ways is just the best/strongest soldier in the arrancar army
2) It would tie the Espada too much to the Captains. The element of surprise would be lost. Already the parallels between Espada and Captains have been too obvious. Knowing Kubo he might just take it so far and then, decide to spring a surprise by changing everything again.

From the oldest convention to what i term the newest (certainly in Japan and in shonen) having the woman be the strongest- Halibel as Primera. It doesn't happen a lot but it does happen from time to time.
The problem here is that in shonen, the hero (traditionally a male) never harms women intentionally. Ichigo might kick Rukia's behind but that is played for laughs. The shonen hero saves women, not fight them. Women villains are often disptached by women heroes, or the male hero's female friends, or by the second tier hero.

Halibel as Primera would be the most unexpected outcome but it with what we know of Ichigo, can the battle be a believable one? Or would it simply ruin Ichigo's image as a shonen hero?
I don't think Kubo will stray from the shonen hero type. Either he has Halibel as Primera but Ichigo doesn't fight her, which i think unlikely. Or he simply doesn't have her as Primera but as Segundo, which is something I would do :D

Kubo can either play it safe with OG as Primera or throw caution to the wind and be avant-garde by having Halibel as Primera.

Or he could choose a middle course. Stark.

Stark typifies the 'lazy guy is strongest' idea. It is not as old as the 'Old guy is strongest'. That one has been around for hundreds of years. The lazy one at most 50 odd years. In fact it is often used to exemplify the hero or protagonist in a narrative. Often the lazy hero becomes the strongest through hardwork, but still evinces a laisez-faire attitude to life.
It is very typical in shonen however.

Also Stark represents the 'nice guy turns out to be bad ass' idea

At the moment out of the current crop of the Espada, the most likeable has been Stark. He's been presented as being comical, lazy and dispenses with formalities (no -sama) allowing a mere girl to stamp on his balls.

Lazy and nice. These are conventions that apply to heroes, not villains. It would be ironic then that the lazy yet nice and comical Espada turns out to be the most ruthless, most powerful of the whole lot. In a word, the Primera.

Halibel= acts like she is Primera, calm and effective and cool. If she was a guy she'd be a better looking version of Ulq
OG= looks like Primera due to experience and age
Stark= acts like a comical buffoon ---(in my view) exactly why he is Primera, because he acts like he isn't.

[stark espada]

Ok haven't done one of these rambling ones in a while.

In trying to place the numbering of the last three Espada a lot of fans understandably talk about shonen conventions or cliches.

Many however make the assumption that all shonen conventions are similar or have the same socio-cultural significance.

When we look at so-called shonen conventions one of the most eminent is what i call the inversion rule e.g

where the weakling = turns out to be strong
where the idiot = turns out to be brilliant
where the bumbling sidekick = is actually the suave anti-hero
where the cute, dopey looking pet creature = turns out to be a powerful beast or fighter.
where the lazy sloth = turns out to be a powerful character
where the kid = turns out to be super strong
etc etc

there are loads of these in shonen -- it's a very convenient way for a mangaka to surprise his audience on weekly basis.

Now because fans are positively flooded with shonen manga for the past 10 years every kind of inversion has been seen, many twice. There is almost nothing original anymore (ok the Zommari one was pretty out there...but that's due to Kubo's insanity more than anything else). Many fans then assume that any inversion is cliche (e.g when Nell turned into Neriel there were people already decrying it as a cliche). Similarly when talking about Stark, Halibel and OG, folks go on about how cliche it is for a lazy guy to be strongest, or the woman, or the old guy.

I think this is wrong. Each of the three left represent a shonen convention, true. But each is in a different position cliche wise.

The Old Guy being the strongest or most bad ass is clearly the oldest convention in Asian pulp fiction. It's natural if this seeps into shonen. Kubo already shows us that Yamamoto is the strongest Captain of the Gotei 13. Would Kubo parallel this with the Espada by making OG Primera?

I say no for two reasons
1) It is the oldest convention. And the one most audiences expect to happen. Kubo always uses shonen cliches but twists them to suit his story. Yama-ji's position is not just the strongest, but as the leader of the Gotei 13. His opposite number is Aizen, not the Primera who in many ways is just the best/strongest soldier in the arrancar army
2) It would tie the Espada too much to the Captains. The element of surprise would be lost. Already the parallels between Espada and Captains have been too obvious. Knowing Kubo he might just take it so far and then, decide to spring a surprise by changing everything again.

From the oldest convention to what i term the newest (certainly in Japan and in shonen) having the woman be the strongest- Halibel as Primera. It doesn't happen a lot but it does happen from time to time.
The problem here is that in shonen, the hero (traditionally a male) never harms women intentionally. Ichigo might kick Rukia's behind but that is played for laughs. The shonen hero saves women, not fight them. Women villains are often disptached by women heroes, or the male hero's female friends, or by the second tier hero.

Halibel as Primera would be the most unexpected outcome but it with what we know of Ichigo, can the battle be a believable one? Or would it simply ruin Ichigo's image as a shonen hero?
I don't think Kubo will stray from the shonen hero type. Either he has Halibel as Primera but Ichigo doesn't fight her, which i think unlikely. Or he simply doesn't have her as Primera but as Segundo, which is something I would do :D

Kubo can either play it safe with OG as Primera or throw caution to the wind and be avant-garde by having Halibel as Primera.

Or he could choose a middle course. Stark.

Stark typifies the 'lazy guy is strongest' idea. It is not as old as the 'Old guy is strongest'. That one has been around for hundreds of years. The lazy one at most 50 odd years. In fact it is often used to exemplify the hero or protagonist in a narrative. Often the lazy hero becomes the strongest through hardwork, but still evinces a laisez-faire attitude to life.
It is very typical in shonen however.

Also Stark represents the 'nice guy turns out to be bad ass' idea

At the moment out of the current crop of the Espada, the most likeable has been Stark. He's been presented as being comical, lazy and dispenses with formalities (no -sama) allowing a mere girl to stamp on his balls.

Lazy and nice. These are conventions that apply to heroes, not villains. It would be ironic then that the lazy yet nice and comical Espada turns out to be the most ruthless, most powerful of the whole lot. In a word, the Primera.

Halibel= acts like she is Primera, calm and effective and cool. If she was a guy she'd be a better looking version of Ulq
OG= looks like Primera due to experience and age
Stark= acts like a comical buffoon ---(in my view) exactly why he is Primera, because he acts like he isn't.

Another long rant thing but another very good point but for cliche goes stark out of all of them has the most he has about 4 traits that would show that he is the strongest as said by xxx but there is one missed thing the fact that in the veiw of bad news(AA's passing) he was very calm and some how already had known what had happened that is a huge give away for the strongest knowing what has happened before any one else but then shrugging it off like it is nothing(dead give away).

[WatanukiXXX]

@Stark Espada
Yeah his calmness is a good point! added to the rest it signifies the likelihood he is Primera :yell

@Griffith and Malaena
Based on the new spoilers for 304 it looks like you and those here that want Byakuya to fight, say Stark, may come true. He's getting ready for 'the real battles' with Rukia
So unless Kubo suddenly introduces new filler characters that can only mean either the Traitor Captains or the top three Espada.

Odds are we may get to see Byakuya get owned hard this time. He isn't 100% and Rukia isn't that strong. Both, thorugh plotkai and fanservice wiped out an Espada each.

This can only mean (to me) that the next Espada encounter (third time's the charm!) will be the one that causes serious problems for the Kuchikis. I can see Byakuya being smacked around like a rag doll and sacrificing himself to buy Rukia some time :hm


also new spoilers from Kubo's interview indicate that Unohana will fight in the next arc and her fight is important to Kubo. Could be another hint of Stark here.

[stark espada]

I think its one of the major factors xxx

Also were did you see this review


and well who ever unohana ends up fighting will more then likely end up fighting chad and when she was walking off it almost looked as if she was about to be attacked by someone so its possible who ever she is about to fight is coming and if stark does turn out to be the primera why would he need to attack her from behind like that or I might have been seeing things


and yes I think bya will soon be owned and possible sacrifice himself for rukia that could happen easily by my seeing.

[WatanukiXXX]

@stark espada
here's the translation

http://www.bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?t=767&page=7

If the interview is true then Unohana won't be fighting anyone this arc. It looks like she is more drawn towards the enormous amount of reiatsu (reiryaku?) being released by Nnoitra and Kenpachi.

But the Byakuya quote does indicate another fight coming for the Kuchikis. It just has to be one of the top three Espada. Bya did mention "the real battles are about to begin" so that rules out Yammi :lmao .

It could be Aizen or Gin or Tousen...but somehow I doubt it. They could have made an entrance anytime but have left the Espada to deal with matters as they see fit.

If we assume Halibel is still watching Ichigo and Orihime then that leaves OG and Stark.

I said earlier that Byakuya doesn't deserve to fight Stark and I stand by that. It won't be a fight it will be a massacre. If Stark comes Bya and Rukia will get owned faster than greased lightning. But, I do believe that Stark only kills when he has to. He kills when ordered by Aizen or when it's necessary (e.g to save his own life).

He'll beat Bya to within an inch of his life and leave, like Ulq does to Ichigo. Whether he lives or dies after is up to him. Rukia might be spared the worst of the pwnage but she wont be at 100%.

Like Shunsui, Stark's SS counterpart, who spared Chad's life and had him healed. Stark won't heal Byakuya, (he is a villain after all) but he wont kill him outright.

If Bya and Rukia were to face OG (or even Halibel) the odds of either surviving are slim to none. Something about them shouts 'cold-blooded killers' to me.
So Kubo might have them meet Stark now, just to ensure Rukia lives to meet up with Ichigo and co later.

[stark espada]

@stark espada
here's the translation

http://www.bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?t=767&page=7

If the interview is true then Unohana won't be fighting anyone this arc. It looks like she is more drawn towards the enormous amount of reiatsu (reiryaku?) being released by Nnoitra and Kenpachi.

But the Byakuya quote does indicate another fight coming for the Kuchikis. It just has to be one of the top three Espada. Bya did mention "the real battles are about to begin" so that rules out Yammi :lmao .

It could be Aizen or Gin or Tousen...but somehow I doubt it. They could have made an entrance anytime but have left the Espada to deal with matters as they see fit.

If we assume Halibel is still watching Ichigo and Orihime then that leaves OG and Stark.

I said earlier that Byakuya doesn't deserve to fight Stark and I stand by that. It won't be a fight it will be a massacre. If Stark comes Bya and Rukia will get owned faster than greased lightning. But, I do believe that Stark only kills when he has to. He kills when ordered by Aizen or when it's necessary (e.g to save his own life).

He'll beat Bya to within an inch of his life and leave, like Ulq does to Ichigo. Whether he lives or dies after is up to him. Rukia might be spared the worst of the pwnage but she wont be at 100%.

Like Shunsui, Stark's SS counterpart, who spared Chad's life and had him healed. Stark won't heal Byakuya, (he is a villain after all) but he wont kill him outright.

If Bya and Rukia were to face OG (or even Halibel) the odds of either surviving are slim to none. Something about them shouts 'cold-blooded killers' to me.
So Kubo might have them meet Stark now, just to ensure Rukia lives to meet up with Ichigo and co later.First thanks for showing me

Well more then likely stark will be the one to fight bya because I still stand by the fact that the OG will meet with chad and unohana also in the last chapter as she was walking away it looked like a blade slash was coming her way I could not tell if it was in her area or if it was in grantz but I think it is her's

and yes I have thought the same thing since the beginning stark from what we have seen does not seem like the kind of person who would just right out kill you unlike lets say Nnoitora or grantz and rukia might try to get in the way but be defeated or swatted like a fly.


yes more then likely yammy in all actuality should be ranked at least 7 but because of the lack of since and iq he is lower on the food chain.

but like rain and I have said he is the real primera but he painted a 0 on to make him look weaker so there. :D

[Flying Banana]

have i joined yet? o__o if not can i joinplease :]

[stark espada]

if you have not welcome Flying Banana

[Griffith]

Welcome flying ^^

[WatanukiXXX]

hiya Flying Banana :hug

I'm hoping we see some Stark after this week long break. It's the New Year, give us something Kubo! Even a glimpse of Stark yawning will be enough :yell

Oh and I also just realised that out of the last three unranked Espada, Halibel has appeared the most at 6 times, Stark second at 4 times and Old Man/Guy the least at 3 times.

Halibel was also the first of the unranked Espadas shown all the way in chapter 193

Stark (again) is second at chapter 229

Old Man's first appearance was chapter 244 (or maybe 245)

Subtle Kubo hints for rankings? Halibel Primera, Stark Segundo and OG Tercera? :hm

I also think Stark's number is on his hand (covered by the glove). The gloves might also be a means of containing his WTFHXPWNage powers from leaking out. But that's just me:noworry

[stark espada]

well those are some good point but I do not think that the issue thing is a way of leading it could be I still say stark is 1 that is why I think and bleachexile I said a wile back it will be on his right hand for aizens right hand or something to that effect I also agree that the gloves probably hold the power because he is the only one I see that actually wears gloves that are not apart of the shirt it could be like the eye patch for keni.

[WatanukiXXX]

hmmm Ken's eyepatch absorbed his power (ughh) because he was leaking like mad

Maybe Stark's gloves prevent his power from destroying things. I mean he takes his gloves off and releases his ultimate ability that pwns everyone.

I read an earlier theory (was it yours by the way stark espada?) which states the reason Stark is so sleepy is because he is too powerful and needs to rest a lot to recharge himself.

This sounds similar to what i read about SS captains spending their time sleeping as much as possible as a means of conserving and recharging themselves as well. The individual profiles for captains even states this ( i believe the link to it is in the Bleach translations thread, not sure)

If there is a parallel in that sleeping equals lots of power than out of the whole of the Espada Stark alone shows this trait. Might strengthen the case for him being Primera.

[stark espada]

yeah I did say that and I have thought all along that is above every thing the main reason why stark is set to be Primera that sleep quality seems like it is the main cause for his rank

It also seems the only time he is bother is during a meeting he said he had just woken up so he would not have been awake and when lili is informing him on some kind of major subject other then that he sleeps.

[WatanukiXXX]

My wish for this new year is for Stark to appear in the next chapter

and for him to be the breakout character of 2008 :D

[stark espada]

XXX seeing as lili wanted him to possible do something about the passing of AA it seems like 1 has joined the list and more then likely 2 more will be going soon one might be dead and grimmjow is unknown so there might actually be 5 dead soon are 4 but if that does not get stark moving nothing will so after Nnoitora dies if he does then we will more then likely be seeing stark.

[WatanukiXXX]

Stark has to do something Stark Espada. Even if we just see him react to the other deaths (ok I have a suspicion Grantz is coming back someday, he has a Bleach Beat Collection coming out in March).

Not only that but the reiatsu pressure pressure from the Ken v Nnoi fight can be felt by all the other Captains. It's clearly massive. We haven't gotten any reaction to it from the Espada or Aizen yet.

I think Lillinete running to wake up Stark and asking him if he was ok with it might not mean about the Espada dying. Lillinete might be asking if Stark is ok with letting intruders into HM, threatening the arrancar.

[stark espada]

yes just seeing any reaction from him would be good for me as well but I think He will not be seen for quite some time something just says there is to much stuf going on with Nnoi and keni to really bother to mess with the other espada and yes grantz is getting a beat collection because of his popularity I mean I do not think they can really do any more with him just let him go already.

and if stark is seen I have a feeling he will be getting up at the end of the Nnoi fight getting tired of all the losing espada.

[WatanukiXXX]

I would have joy-gasms if in the middle of the Nnoi-Ken fight amidst all their massive reiatsu that pwns everyone else, Stark appears...and says 'You woke me up' then proceeds to kick ass

In all seriousness, I wouldn't mind if Stark is NOT Primero. As long as he survives and has a big role or two. I mean we saw Zommari and Aaro. Both were stronger than yammi and both died within a few chapters of being introduced. None had any prior character development. Zommari 7th died after 3 chapters, Szayel the 8th fought for a year.

Old man has the least amount of character development out of the last unranked three. If he is Primero he wont last long and is just filler.

[stark espada]

I think that would make my day if he did that but it be great to see him beat Nnoitora as well that would be just great I mean one of the best moments in manga.

actually seeing as the old guy does have the least amount of time that is the main reason I want him to be the 3rd espada because if you look at stark you see he has a chance to get bigger then he is know because the short time we have seen him he always shows something new to him like he sleeps allot and he is kinda silly in his own way the old guy would be in like 5 are 6 issues and that would be it that would be lame for the one who is supposed to be the strongest of them all.

[WatanukiXXX]

This is something i began to look into (yes I was bored)

When we first see Stark in chapter 229 he appears with a peculiar pose. It's very indicative of something and only now have i been able to figure it out.

http://aycu22.webshots.com/image/41301/2002572232526338986_rs.jpg

Notice Stark's right hand is in his coat. It is very reminiscent of the Samurai played by Toshiro Mifune in Yojimbo, a brilliant film that was remade into A Fistfull of Dollars starring Clint Eastwood.

http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/41081/2002134548015777627_rs.jpghttp://aycu31.webshots.com/image/38950/2002668763512528082_rs.jpg

Toshiro Mifune's iconic samurai character was a laid-back, lazy greedy self centered bastard on the surface, but he was a true and skillful warrior underneath. His trademark hand-in-coat made him seem both imperious and at the same time relaxed, as if any situation he was always in control. He was and still is, the epitome of coolness.

Kubo drew Stark as the ultimate relaxed warrior (using the famous Yojimbo character as a reference), making him even more dangerous when he reveals his true abilities

Also I found

http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/41232/2002646565627832744_rs.jpg This guy plays the Master in Samurai Seven, an animated remaking of The Seven Samurai by Akira Kurosawa which also starred Toshiro Mifune. The anime was by Studio Gonzo. Check it out it's awesome!
Anyway doesn't he look familiar? ;)

http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/40802/2002645226778666406_rs.jpg
Here is the Master again. He so looks like an older version of Stark. In the anime he is arguably the most skilled swordsman in the group. He also functions as the leader. His resemblance to Stark is really uncanny, down to the gloves and his white attire.

http://aycu18.webshots.com/image/38977/2003215942493960759_rs.jpg
This poster for Samurai Seven has the Master again. He looks different here for some reason. Even more badass. This is how I want Stark to look like when he is 'serious'. Or when he releases. Imagine Ichigo pissing his pants having to face someone like this :eek:

There may not be much Stark official or unofficial art, but his badassery is something other artists have used before and sometimes the results are just so similar. That's because the design is just too cool and doesnt need to be tampered with:D

[stark espada]

OMG I just noticed how right you are on this they do look some what alike although The master has longer hair from seven samurai but I see it totally I think he did get his idea from Yojimbo I mean pose and look wise with the hand thing and from the master from Samurai Seven this was a good deduction even if you were just bored when saying it its uncanny how much its there its almost scary but as you said below I as well hope that stark has that serious look on his face when he comes oh and xxx I think this alone has to be prof that he is infact the first espada in the group I mean you could not make him after both of them and not have him as the strongest there is

(by the way xxx kudos on knowing about all 3 one hella good anime and 2 hell good movies I would recommend them to all who read this as well.)



also this is another reason to think that his number will be under his glove more then likely were that flower thing on the masters hand is it will be there.

[WatanukiXXX]

More pointless fights. More stupid comic relief from degraded characters. No plot. No Stark :(

Sigh. The only reason why I bother reading Bleach now is to see if Stark or Wonderwice make an appearance. Oh and if the plot came back too.

On Stark's ranking. He's Primero if Ichigo is going to face the top three. The one most suited to Ichigo fight wise would be Stark.

If the top three are being reserved for the top three Captains then it's either Halibel or Old Man.

[stark espada]

XXX I think so as well stupid minor people and were did the plot go now its just we kill all

thought then keni fight should get good

and yeah no stark:mad:

I have been thinking out of all the remaing espada he has the biggest chance of bing the first

also think of this he is first to show up in new ending song

[Alba Meira]

Please let me join this fan club.

Stark like many of the others here is considered to be my favorite character and I'd love to join.

[WatanukiXXX]

welcome Alba Meira :hug

The FC has gone quite because Stark hasn't appeared in over 30 chapters, the manga has stagnated with no plot and Kubo has gone insane with his character portrayals, power scaling and plotholes :cry

With the recent spoilers (chapter 308) I guess I'm sorta glad Stark hasn't appeared or his character would also be denigrated by Kubo. KT needs a break. At this rate Zaraki can easily kill off the top three Espada with no sweat :headscratch

stark espada~ nice bit of info. I haven't been following the anime so i had no idea.

I just hope for some Stark ownage, but as long as Kubo is in this shitty writing phase he mght turn Stark into another Zommari

[NightMare]

how are u fc??

[stark espada]

welcome Alba Meira :hug

The FC has gone quite because Stark hasn't appeared in over 30 chapters, the manga has stagnated with no plot and Kubo has gone insane with his character portrayals, power scaling and plotholes :cry

With the recent spoilers (chapter 308) I guess I'm sorta glad Stark hasn't appeared or his character would also be denigrated by Kubo. KT needs a break. At this rate Zaraki can easily kill off the top three Espada with no sweat :headscratch

stark espada~ nice bit of info. I haven't been following the anime so i had no idea.

I just hope for some Stark ownage, but as long as Kubo is in this shitty writing phase he mght turn Stark into another Zommari

first off he better not be another Le roux and right now he still seems that keni might only be able to beat 5 and 4 at full strenght and tie with 3 but not sure he could do the same with 1 and 2 and kubo needs to leave the bad wrighter slump I am still hopeing to see him come in after this battle and like just punch z and send him flying I mean what mayuri said to renji made me think something like that could happen

[WatanukiXXX]

Hiya Nightmare :hugs

@stark espada

The problem with Ken being so strong is it renders the Vizards, obsolete. Why introduce this whole new level of power if the Captains and Zaraki are quite capable of owning the Espada?
Not only that but Vizard Ichigo had to struggle against released Grimmjow. Although it was clear that Vizard Ichigo was the stronger fighter, Grimmjow matched him through sheer tenacity and aggresiveness. Ichigo was never able to bear his strength into an advantage until the very end.

If Vizard Ichigo which is clearly a strength level above bankai had trouble with Sexta Espada, how can patched Kenpachi with a permanent shikai sword be able to match then dominate Quinto Espada with no explainable power-up?

It makes no sense. This is the same Zaraki that was beaten by Shikai Ichigo =unpatched, shikai sword and all. Now he is able to beat an enemy stronger than the one Vizard Ichigo was struggling against, with his patch on?

Kubo needs to explain what happened or it renders the reason for the Vizards irrelevant. As of now Zaraki looks like he can take on Ulquiorra with his eyepatch and 1-3 Espada with Bankai.
It also renders the other Captains like Yamamoto, Shunsui and Ukitake irrelevant too. You don't need them anymore because Zaraki is strong enough to take on any Espada!

Even Ichigo and co. What's the point having Ichigo go through all the power ups when Zaraki, Byakuya and Mayuri can just waltz in and own everyone ? Ichigo should just stay home and do his homework, the SS are quite able to beat Aizen with no help from him or his pals

UNLESS - Stark, Halibel, Avaron and Ulquiorra (and Wonderwice!) being Vasto Lordes are overpowered to an extreme unseen in Bleach. Where no Captain can defeat them. This is the only way for Ichigo and co and the Vizards to be relevant again to the story.

Stark is probably being saved for future arcs. I do not want his dignity to be sullied by fighting now and probably getting owned by plotkai because Kubo wants his 3 captains to win despite all reason and logic to the contrary.

[NightMare]

It's a good theory you've wrote and agree with u and i hope Stark will be a good vilain in the upc fights!!!

[Alba Meira]

welcome Alba Meira :hug

The FC has gone quite because Stark hasn't appeared in over 30 chapters, the manga has stagnated with no plot and Kubo has gone insane with his character portrayals, power scaling and plotholes :cry

With the recent spoilers (chapter 308) I guess I'm sorta glad Stark hasn't appeared or his character would also be denigrated by Kubo. KT needs a break. At this rate Zaraki can easily kill off the top three Espada with no sweat :headscratch

stark espada~ nice bit of info. I haven't been following the anime so i had no idea.

I just hope for some Stark ownage, but as long as Kubo is in this shitty writing phase he mght turn Stark into another Zommari

Thanks for the warm welcome.:hug

I pray to god he dosent turn stark into the next Le Roux. If anything I hope they save that position for the old man. ( Why? I like them both but if someone has to job out like that It should be the old man. ) For Stark I want him to be nothing but the best. Not to mention I think Stark will last for quite a while in the Manga.

Nobody should ever get the Le Roux Treatment ever. ( I love his character to death but he was The Second Coming of D-Roy ) Especially not Stark. I also feel Linette will get the same amount of time in the Manga as Telsa.

[stark espada]

Thanks for the warm welcome.:hug

I pray to god he dosent turn stark into the next Le Roux. If anything I hope they save that position for the old man. ( Why? I like them both but if someone has to job out like that It should be the old man. ) For Stark I want him to be nothing but the best. Not to mention I think Stark will last for quite a while in the Manga.

Nobody should ever get the Le Roux Treatment ever. ( I love his character to death but he was The Second Coming of D-Roy ) Especially not Stark. I also feel Linette will get the same amount of time in the Manga as Telsa.

I think that as well but the diffrence between telsa and lili is lili is a feamle and it is quite noticable that she is young wich means unless kubo goes against all laws of jump lili will not die any time soon.
Hiya Nightmare :hugs

@stark espada

The problem with Ken being so strong is it renders the Vizards, obsolete. Why introduce this whole new level of power if the Captains and Zaraki are quite capable of owning the Espada?
Not only that but Vizard Ichigo had to struggle against released Grimmjow. Although it was clear that Vizard Ichigo was the stronger fighter, Grimmjow matched him through sheer tenacity and aggresiveness. Ichigo was never able to bear his strength into an advantage until the very end.

If Vizard Ichigo which is clearly a strength level above bankai had trouble with Sexta Espada, how can patched Kenpachi with a permanent shikai sword be able to match then dominate Quinto Espada with no explainable power-up?

It makes no sense. This is the same Zaraki that was beaten by Shikai Ichigo =unpatched, shikai sword and all. Now he is able to beat an enemy stronger than the one Vizard Ichigo was struggling against, with his patch on?

Kubo needs to explain what happened or it renders the reason for the Vizards irrelevant. As of now Zaraki looks like he can take on Ulquiorra with his eyepatch and 1-3 Espada with Bankai.
It also renders the other Captains like Yamamoto, Shunsui and Ukitake irrelevant too. You don't need them anymore because Zaraki is strong enough to take on any Espada!

Even Ichigo and co. What's the point having Ichigo go through all the power ups when Zaraki, Byakuya and Mayuri can just waltz in and own everyone ? Ichigo should just stay home and do his homework, the SS are quite able to beat Aizen with no help from him or his pals

UNLESS - Stark, Halibel, Avaron and Ulquiorra (and Wonderwice!) being Vasto Lordes are overpowered to an extreme unseen in Bleach. Where no Captain can defeat them. This is the only way for Ichigo and co and the Vizards to be relevant again to the story.

Stark is probably being saved for future arcs. I do not want his dignity to be sullied by fighting now and probably getting owned by plotkai because Kubo wants his 3 captains to win despite all reason and logic to the contrary.

I agree with every thing you have to say on Z up to this point and it does make it seem as if ichi can just easily stay home and leave it to zaraki.

but as I have said I do think that the top four and even wonderwice will end up being the vesto lord class and for some reason I think yammy is as well but just not truly smart enough to realize it I mean he has to have some sort of plot to him being still alive.

Also I will stop reading if stark or wonder or halibel or even ulquiorra become the next Le roux in the way things go.

but still stark I also think has some plot behind him I think all but avaron(unless he does turn out to be chads papy on one side) will not have much to do with any thing.

[WatanukiXXX]

I certainly hope Stark has some connection to Ichigo.

When Kubo wants Ichigo to fight someone and that someone is going to be important to the plot and character of Ichigo, kubo creates a connection between them.

We see that when Ichigo fought Renji and Byakuya, Grimmjow and (later) Ulquiorra.

If Ichigo fights Stark as just some random Espada who happens to be nu. 1 it wont be an interesting fight on many layers the way Ichigo vs renji was, or Ichigo vs Byakuya, or Ichigo vs Grimmjow. It would be empty like Ichigo vs Dordonii or random arrancar nu 675444...

Now Stark and Ichigo could be anything. Stark could injure Ichigo's friends in front of him. That will make Ichigo want to fight him like crazy. Or Stark could kidnap another female close to Ichigo (Yuzu. Karin, Tatsuki) but that has been overdone.

Or my crack theory...Stark is actually Ichigo's uncle. Isshin and Stark are brothers. They were born of the union of a Shinigami and a natural Arrancar. Isshin took the Shinigami side and Stark the Hollow side.
My only basis for this crackpot theory is that when Stark first appears in chapter 229 his hand is in his coat samurai style. When Isshin first appears as a Shinigami his hand is in his coat, same look, same badass.

Also Zangetsu looks like Stark with shades because ichigo is subconciously remembering his Uncle:nuts

Now, Nnoi's new look in Chapter 309 is amazingly cool. Kubo has outdone himself. I hope Kubo does something as good or even better for Stark! :crazy

[stark espada]

I certainly hope Stark has some connection to Ichigo.

When Kubo wants Ichigo to fight someone and that someone is going to be important to the plot and character of Ichigo, kubo creates a connection between them.

We see that when Ichigo fought Renji and Byakuya, Grimmjow and (later) Ulquiorra.

If Ichigo fights Stark as just some random Espada who happens to be nu. 1 it wont be an interesting fight on many layers the way Ichigo vs renji was, or Ichigo vs Byakuya, or Ichigo vs Grimmjow. It would be empty like Ichigo vs Dordonii or random arrancar nu 675444...

Now Stark and Ichigo could be anything. Stark could injure Ichigo's friends in front of him. That will make Ichigo wa