Evolution of Ichigo's mask

[samnas]

I found something interesting about Ichigo's hollow mask and i thought that i should share with all of you guys ...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/essamnasir/Ichi%20Mask/063_17-064_15.jpg
It was way back when Ichigo first got his shinigami powers plus a mask. As you can clearly see that the mask has only two lines/stripes in the top which are not connected to each other, nothing in the center and nothing in the bottom ...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/essamnasir/Ichi%20Mask/100_04-116_18.jpg
The pic on the left was shown after his fight against Renji when Hanatarou was healing him and the mask actually saved his life. This time the mask has three lines in the top which are not connected to each other, nothing in the center and nothing in the bottom ...

The pic on the right was shown after his fight against Zaraki Kenpachi and Yourichi (in her cat form) was holding his mask and again the mask saved his life. This time the mask has three lines in the top which are slightly longer than on the pic in the left, especially the second and the third line, which are still not connected, and now we actually have a big line and a small line in the center which are connected and nothing in the bottom ...

The mask was also shown during Ichigo vs. Byakuya fight (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/essamnasir/Ichi%20Mask/165_19.jpg), which was not much different from the previous pic ...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/essamnasir/Ichi%20Mask/222_10-222_14.jpg
Now when Ichigo became a vizard his mask was shown with a lot of new markings/lines. This time the mask has four lines in the top and which are connected together at one point, two full lines in the center which are also connected at one point and three new lines in the bottom which are also connected at one point ...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/essamnasir/Ichi%20Mask/231_13-232_19-253_14.jpg
The two pics on the left is during the second fight of Ichigo and Grimmjow and as you can see that the lines/stripes have become a little wider especially the place where the lines are merging together. There are still four lines in the top, and now the mask have three lines in the center and three lines in the bottom ...

The pic on the right is during Ichigo's fight with Doldooni and which is not that much different than his fight with Grimmjow ...

And also during Ichigo's fight with Ulqiuorra (http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/essamnasir/Ichi%20Mask/270_18.jpg)the mask was the same with no big change ...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t6/essamnasir/Ichi%20Mask/281_19.jpg
The last pic which is also the newest pic of Ichigo's mask and we can clearly see that the lines have become much wider than before and are also congested at few places. No change in the number of lines, four in the top, three in the center and three in the bottom ...

.

As you can clearly see, the red markings/lines/stripes have become much thicker/wider and cover more surface. I figure before too long the whole right half will be red. We can say that it's a mistake on Kubo's part, but the lines have almost doubled in number and in thickness. That's not something you repeat as a mistake a lot.

So, what do you think? Is Shirosaki taking over Ichigo soon or is it just a sign of Ichigo's increasing power? Or something else entirely?

[Ness]

I think his mask as a whole represents his growing power and strength as a fighter and as a Vaizard. We can clearly see the changes and progression. Before, Ichigo tried to resist the hollow in him so the mask is more white from the resistance. When Ichigo accepted and became a Vaizard, his mask was more solid and deepened with bold lines. The red lines, to me, are significant because they are the hollow side of him.

Thanks for pointing it out!

[samnas]

Yeah the red lines surely represents his hollow side, so it basically means that until his mask his half white and half red, he can't use his vizard powers to its fullest, like firing a cero etc ...

[Geta Boshi]

Either its Ichi's growth as a Vizard / KT overlooked that while drawing

[mellykill]

wow, thanks for actually taking the time to go through and grab all these pics, I'm still not sure what I think it actually means, but I def. do think it has some kind of significance.
Ichigo is represented in black, with his shinigami powers and a black bankai.
his hollow is always portrayed in white. looks like the red (almost black) is taking control of the white on the mask.
possibly it will make it to a half and half point, or possibly the entire mask will eventually turn red/black if Ichi manages to have complete control.

[Geta Boshi]

Ichi is Black and Hollow side is white but in terms of reatsu Black is the color of Hichigo . Ichi shoots Getsuga Tensho Vichigo/Hichigo shoot a Kuroi (black) Getsuga Tensho .

[Unicorn]

I voted 'it shows the growing power of his vaizard mode'.

[samnas]

I voted 'it shows the growing power of his vaizard mode'.
But if you look that the marking/lines/stripes on the mask started changing before he even became a vizard could also mean that his hollow is getting stronger ...

[SiSL]

I agree with fact, it is more of "leveling up" sign for his hollow and himself. I don't think it means Shirosaki will take over, because it was not that bold when he "fully" took over, right before Vaizard training.

So if it ever reaches full black/darkred, it will possibly point out his level limit.

[Shannon]

I agree with the above, I think that it signifies power. Otherwise, Kubo just forgot and is to lazy to check back and see how he drew it before. But I don't think so. :p

[Syn]

I think it may be the hollow taking slowly over, but Ichigo's growing powers as a Vaizard seem like a logical explanation.
However, the fact that the other Vaizards have white masks lead me to think that it's most probably the hollow taking over slowly...

[StrawberryLover]

Well, I think it has to do with Ichigo being in HM and SS, did you notice that the changes in his mask seem to be taking place where there are more spirit particals, maybe it has something to do with an increase in his reiatsu. But then that is just me throwing out random ideas.

I don't think that Shirosaki will take over any time soon although that could explain increas in red, but if he did take over I am sure GJ would be toast.

EDIT: Just thought of something else what if the mask acts like Ishidas bow and takes spirit particles from the atmosphere and stores them up, then when the mask is half/fully red Ichigo can transform into his full hollow form?

[Mz D]

I always thought of it as a count down. At first I thought it was more to do with the hollow taking over, but he clearly has control of it now so I'm doubting that theory. I believe it's now pointing to his growing control over his own reiatsu which at the start of Bleach he had zero control over.

Now he's gaining fighting experience and learning to gain the killer instinct. I think it's somehow connected to his overall strength. The hollow is part of Ichigo it came from his soul, same as Zangetsu. So he's evolving into a better killing machine, gaining more power from his previous untapped reiatsu.

I don't want the stripes to disappear completely, it's a good design and quite unique. I think it would loose the edge to be half dark red and white.

I hope later in the manga this gets explained as Kubo has been very good to show the changing mask. There has to be some signifigance and I'll be disappointed if there's no explaination at the end of the manga.

[samnas]

OK i can see that most of the people are voting for "It shows the growing power of his vaizard mode" ... So here is one thought which just came to my mind ...

Vizard powers = Shinigami powers + Hollow powers

So if his vizard powers are increasing because of his shinigami powers which signifies that Ichigo is slowely taking control over his own body and if its because of hollow powers which signifies that Shirosaki is taking control over his body ... just a silly idea ...

On a side note even i voted for this option ...

[Axie]

I believe the red represents Ichigo's power, control, and understanding of his hollow side. After his training with the Vizards... it seems like the more he uses his hollow form, the more control he seems to have over it. As he keeps on using it, the more understanding he has. (just like anyone else, the more you do something, the better you get at it.)

As Ichigo fights stronger opponents, the stronger he becomes. He's able to control his huge reiatsu to some level now. I think all these points have to do with the evolution of his Vizard mask.

(:

[Urahara]

The hollow taking over?
I think exactly the opposite....

I think that the shinigami self of Ichigo is taking more control of
the hollow self... Some ppl stated it correctly, the white color is
shirosaki while black is shinigami Ichigo. The mask is the hollow's
power and the change we see is that Ichigo (as shinigami) is obtaining
control of that power. At the beggining only Shirosaki could use it,
but now -after upgrading to vizard- Ichigo can use a part of the hollow's
power. The more black the mask gets, the more powerfull the
shinigami form will be while a 50-50% black and white will show that
Shirosaki and Ichigo share an equal part of that power.

Ichigo is growing and shows that his place is the king's not the horse's.
Much more time than 11 seconds has passed with the mask on in
this last fight, isn't it? That can also show that he's obtaining control
of the hollow form/ power.

[Velius]

Syn made a good point with the other Vizard masks we have seen. None of the two seem to have any kind of shading indicating anything really. So this is something that all of them could have gone through, some of them could have gone though or something that only Ichigo has encountered.

I'm leaning toward the middle one. Maybe with ones like Mashiro, something like this wouldn't happen. But in Ichigo's case, he would have to gain, through experience, he full Vizard potential.

[SiSL]

How do we know others masks were not fully black and turned into white by time?

I don't think "taking over" is a case at all. Because Hollow took over Ichigo completely while inner battle and mask was not any different. Do we know other Vaizards gained any level since they became Vaizards or encountered such fights?

[Velius]

We don't know for sure. If you read my post again, you can see that I listed that there are multiple possiblities, of which we don't know which one is the correct one, if even any. When comparing what Ichigo's mask looks like now to Hiyori's and Shinji's, there is not really any patterns indicating that there was any similar process there. That's all we can really do is guess.

And I don't understand the fully black going to white. Any particular reason it would be the opposite of how Ichigo's is going? My guess is still that it indicates his growing Vizard powers. Not necessarily his hollow taking over.

[Beee]

The hollow taking over?
I think exactly the opposite....

I think that the shinigami self of Ichigo is taking more control of
the hollow self... Some ppl stated it correctly, the white color is
shirosaki while black is shinigami Ichigo. The mask is the hollow's
power and the change we see is that Ichigo (as shinigami) is obtaining
control of that power. At the beggining only Shirosaki could use it,
but now -after upgrading to vizard- Ichigo can use a part of the hollow's
power. The more black the mask gets, the more powerfull the
shinigami form will be while a 50-50% black and white will show that
Shirosaki and Ichigo share an equal part of that power.

Ichigo is growing and shows that his place is the king's not the horse's.
Much more time than 11 seconds has passed with the mask on in
this last fight, isn't it? That can also show that he's obtaining control
of the hollow form/ power.

Hm... that's exactly what I think :D Though i'm not sure if the stripes are supposed to be black or dark red though... In the anime it was (possibly? I didn't watch it since a long long time) and in the manga I don't recall (or maybe I just don't remember) ever being a color page featuring Ichigo's mask with red stripes.

[samnas]

Actually apart from shinji and Hiyori we haven't seen any vizard mask ... Shinji's mask is complete white with no markings but Hiyori has shown to have some markings on her mask near the eyebrow area ...

http://i12.tinypic.com/4l8ko5x.jpg

Hm... that's exactly what I think :D Though i'm not sure if the stripes are supposed to be black or dark red though... In the anime it was (possibly? I didn't watch it since a long long time) and in the manga I don't recall (or maybe I just don't remember) ever being a color page featuring Ichigo's mask with red stripes.

Well actually because the manga is black & white so the stripes are shown as black but in reality it is dark red. Even in the anime it is shown as dark red and even in the color pages of manga ...

[Air]

Actually, there is no red :p
That was just a mistake in the anime. In the manga they are BLACK.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6215/z232012hl1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


About the stripes evolution..
I think they represents the hollow power slowly awakening.
And this means more power in vaizard mode,
and also a possible future retry for Shirosaki to take over.

[samnas]

Actually i have seen that pic, it could be that the manga did some mistake in coloring ... and btw i think that there is no other pic except this one in which ichigo is wearing a mask in color, so we can't say that it was black ... we have to look at anime at these times, since they usually choose the colors after asking the manga author ...

Hmmm... so you mean to say that the anime is making mistakes again and again from the very first time the mask was shown ... i dont think that ...

[Syn]

Every time Kubo showed the mask in a coloured spread, the mask was black and white. Are you saying that Kubo makes mistakes on his own manga, when he constantly showed it like that?

BTW, it's not the first time the anime makes blatant mistakes.

[SiSL]

Every time Kubo showed the mask in a coloured spread, the mask was black and white. Are you saying that Kubo makes mistakes on his own manga?

There is only one color page of mask official, not "everytime", rest you see are fan coloring. Are you saying anime creators picking colors without asking Kubo?

[Syn]

Yes they do. Matsumoto is BLONDE, Gin has BLUE eyes, Inoue's hair is BROWN, and the list goes on.

[Velius]

Indeed they do. Only the color spreads are canon unfortunately. I do believe the stripes are black.

[Inuhanyou]

I think its just that kubo's drawing sucks, i don't think that it really means anything significant..

[mori]

pretty sure its an indication of how his hollow has started to gain more sway, at least that he increased the numbers to start with to demonstrate the fact and then as Ichigo seems to be stalling in his progress nothing much is really changing. This time though it seems something is happening to his mask and its likely to spell his next power up.

[samnas]

Yes they do. Matsumoto is BLONDE, Gin has BLUE eyes, Inoue's hair is BROWN, and the list goes on.
Actually i think that Matsumoto's skin color, Gin's eye color and Inoue's hair color are not that important as compared to Ichigo's mask color ... i mean if the markings really mean something ...

[Tomodachi69]

I think the stripes definitely relate to the hollow, at least. For surel, the number of stripes used to increase each time Shirosaki saved Ichigo. I'll have to check why else they increased in number, though.

And I think the stripes have definitely gotten thicker. They're thicker than they were during the Ichi/Ulq fight, so something must have happened during the time Ichigo was near-dead.

[DeDaL]

For surel, the number of stripes used to increase each time Shirosaki saved Ichigo.

OR...every time Ichigo himself got a powerup. Black is the shinigami color - remember? While hollow color is white...

Let's widen the field of view and stop looking at things that happened right before the mask appeard, and look at thign that happened between times it appeared.

Unlocking own Reiryoku + unlocking Shinigami powers = 2 stripes.

Reaching ShiKai and mastering it's zangeki(Getsuga Tensho) = third stripe.

Learning to work side-by-side with the sword and getting ready for BanKai = fourth stripe.

Acheving BanKai, but not mastering it in any way = a jag at the end of fourth stripe.

Learning to control BanKai more, learning to fire Kuroi Getsuga at will = fifth stripe.

A huge powerup after submitting Inner Hollow + learning to effectively use Getsuga Tenshou + learning to fight with instincts + ... = five new stripes

So, now the stripes connect... Does it mean that Ichigo reached all powerups he could imagine and all he needs to do now is to make all that power work together by logically connecting all he learned till now? I think it does. If the stripes are really getting thicker (which I doubt, I think it's just poor printing) - it means all he has is starting to come together...

Anyways, these are just my speculations, and I'd love to hear your opinions.

[Saffire]

Reaching ShiKai and mastering it's zangeki(Getsuga Tensho) = third stripe.Just as a point (because I like to quibble these things), Ichigo didn't master the Getsuga until he was doing his bankai training. He couldn't use it very well at all before then, he just had access to it.

[DeDaL]

Just as a point (because I like to quibble these things), Ichigo didn't master the Getsuga until he was doing his bankai training. He couldn't use it very well at all before then, he just had access to it.

Hmm... I guess, I have to be more specific. That mark appeared after Ichigo-Renji fight. At that moment Ichigo already knew how to consiously launch Getsuga Tenshou and knew it's name. Hence the "marked powerup".

[Nocturne]

I voted his growing Vizard power. Well what I really think is that the black side of his mask represents Ichigo gaining control his hollow powers more as opposed to his hollow gaining control. I mentioned in the 280 manga thread that if the stripes faded to black then it represents Ichigo finally achieving balance between his hollow and shinigami side. I will miss the stripes if that happens though.

[Random Hollow]

i guess its ichigo's own power becoming more dominant

[Sola]

I chose the fourth one.

[Sarada]

You can see the marks getting thicker, design is a bit altered too, an extra stripe. Although if the reason is Kubo just improving on it's design or if he is really doing it with another meaning, no idea. If he's really paying attention to it, that striped part would become totally black, an then the 2 halfs are in perfect balance.


The reason I'm doubting is because Kubo is really sloppy when it comes to these things. Like forgetting to draw Zanpaktou's, forgetting to draw Grimm's scar, jackets magically regenerating themselfves after being completely torn, Grimmy's teeth seem to change instantly from huge fangs to normal human teeth. And there must be a lot more mistakes I'm not even noticing.

[Sola]

He could be gaining more control seeing as how he controlled the mask for so long these past chapters.

[Byakuya Kuchiki]

I think his mask as a whole represents his growing power and strength as a fighter and as a Vaizard. We can clearly see the changes and progression. Before, Ichigo tried to resist the hollow in him so the mask is more white from the resistance. When Ichigo accepted and became a Vaizard, his mask was more solid and deepened with bold lines. The red lines, to me, are significant because they are the hollow side of him.

Thanks for pointing it out!

Ya thats what i think to:D

[memopanda]

Perhaps it's a measure of the power of the Hollow... which Ichigo may or may not control. Therefore it's both a measurement of Ichigo's power (when he can control it) and a measurement of the Hollow's power against him. The tightrope gets thinner for Ichigo, I guess.

[Fortunate]

What?
Ichigo's Hollow Mask is evolving!

Congratulations! Your hollow mask evolved into... a slightly different looking hollow mask!.. :p


Anyway, I want to say it's just KT's drawing style, but it probably relates to Ichigo becoming stronger, or Shirosaki taking over.

[Final Boss]

Most likely the growth of his vizard powers

[Rain]

I just say there is a line or so for everytime he was saved by his inner-hollow

and his mask hasn't undergone and huge changes since he overcame shirosaki

[Shdo]

thats true, it barely changed in HM, in comparison to SS arc its really taking its time.

[Chill0]

One step closer to "BanVizard" or did we forget the color page with 3/possible 4 sides of ichigo a while back? Vizard is not the last stage and is the only reason Aizen is interested in Ichigo. His great growth in power, his potential(ulquioras status report) is what Aizen is interested in.

Just being a Vizard shouldnt be much of a problem for Aizen, but getting stronger then anyone is what hes interested in(becoming god). Ichigos potential implies he can get further then anyone ever has. The "perfect hybrid" comes to mind here.

[Raf]

I'm sure there is something relevent with the increasing of lines, but Kubo has screwed up everynow and then and drew and extra line in... And he is updating the design of the mask as well (the 3rd Grimmjow fight the lower jaw area was pulled back more to make it look like an actual jawbone.

[Aizen Sousuke]

and his mask hasn't undergone and huge changes since he overcame shirosaki

Shirosaki can only be as strong as Ichigo's full potential. I think the reason the mask went through huge changes at first as because in Soul Society, Ichigo realized how to fight using his Zanpakutou as an ally rather then a tool, giving him mastery over Shikai, and then achieving Bankai as well. These are major steps in reiatsu development/control which helped Shirosaki grow. The stronger Ichigo became, the stronger Shirosaki became, and as he grew more powerful, he became Ichigo's main power source rather than Zangetsu. This is why when Ichigo goes Bankai without the mask (such as against Grimmjow in Karakura the first time), his Getsuga Tenshou is black rather than blue, cause fighting in Bankai was increasing the amount of power he was drawing from Shirosaki (the reason why he was scared to go into Bankai).

Once Ichigo became a Vaizard officially by mastering his inner Hollow, the rate of change is most likely dependent on his ability to control and work with his inner hollow and create inner harmony (the lines became thicker as he was able to utilize his Hollow powers for longer periods of time). This rate of change, ultimately, is slower than the rapid progress Ichigo made in Soul Society.

[Sephy_Chan]

I always saw the change in his mask to be representation of himself, the white representing the "good/pure" side of his being, and the black lines as the hollow part - the "Evil/impure" part of him.

So the lines grow in and cover the mask means he's becomming more and more 'infected' by it - becomming more like the perfect hybrid..

That's how I've seen it...

Random complanin:
I was (still am) pretty pissed a animators for drawing three lines on his mask during Urahara's pit training or making it look like shit in the filler and after (TT,TT)

[Aizen Sousuke]

The Bleach World is sort of opposite. White represents Evil (Arrancar) while Black represents good (Shinigami). I don't know if that theme is consistent with the mask though (especially as it uses red). I still think the mask grows dependently on Ichigo's power, using the red lines to signify his increases in strength.

[wakeskater]

I think that his mask changing is the balance between Zangetsu/Shirosaki.
We've only seen hiyoris and shinjis mask so far, and they dont seem to have the changing color scheme etc... however. they are in fact Artificially made Vaizard. Ichigo is the only person we know of who became a vaizard by becoming a hollow and shinigami at the same time... he is essentially the perfectly naturally made vaizard. So i think, he will gain a full half black side of his mask eventually and that will signify that he has matured to a full fledged super strong vaizard... and maybe he will stop sucking and learn to use Cero/other Hollow powers...

also Aizen Sousuke: He consiously used black getsuga that time full well knowing it was his hollows... and its much stronger than his normal one so i guess he just uses that instead for now... however i think if he wanted to... he could use regular getsuga... but maybe black is only for bankai dunno really

[Sephy_Chan]

The Bleach World is sort of opposite. White represents Evil (Arrancar) while Black represents good (Shinigami). I don't know if that theme is consistent with the mask though (especially as it uses red). I still think the mask grows dependently on Ichigo's power, using the red lines to signify his increases in strength.

My bad.. :oops

I'm wondering why ppl say the mask has red lines... :headscratch
In this (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m7bleachch2320102da6.jpg)color spread the lines are black...

I still see the lines as his growth as a hybrid (>,<;; )

PS:
I want Hichi to take over and cause a massacre <3 :rolleyes:

[Izaki_Kurosaki]

Wierdos.... The design has nothing to do with if the hollow's taking over or not.... It's just a coincedence that he has other color besides white.

[Archreactor]

if you remember shirosaki said that he would be back and he would let ichigo use his true power so i think it means that the more stripes on his mask the closer shirosaki is to be coming back like this

more stripes=closer shirosaki is of coming back=more power for ichigo

[Aniki]

if you remember shirosaki said that he would be back and he would let ichigo use his true power so i think it means that the more stripes on his mask the closer shirosaki is to be coming back like this

more stripes=closer shirosaki is of coming back=more power for ichigo

Did he now? I dont remember him saying anything of the like. but then again ive been proven wrong like a million times with these types of things.
Bad memory on my part :-/

To be honest I dont think the strips have too much meaning, I just think its a way of gauging his overall power/experience/determination and also an easy way to show that he really is changing, hes not the same person he was before (experience, powerwise) so the lines on the mask are just an easy way of showing this.

My only question is why does Ichigo have them and the other dont. Ive seen a couple of good theories. i just hope we get an explanation.

Wierdos....
LOL... the very first word of your very first post on here is calling people Weirdos. I love it

[Archreactor]

if you forget every hollow mask is different some way like maybe shinji grows more wrinkles on his mask the more powerful he gets. the adventures of sag faceman
shirosaki says it while he is being absorbed into ichigo's sword when he stabs him.

[Archreactor]

he says it as he is being absorbed into ichigo's sword.

[Shinrin]

My bad.. :oops

I'm wondering why ppl say the mask has red lines... :headscratch
In this (http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m7bleachch2320102da6.jpg)color spread the lines are black...


It's hard to say about the color, personally i like the thought that it is so dark red that it almost appear black.

Just like when you look from upper of a tall glass through a colored Soda it appear darker then if you looked from the side.

[Archreactor]

it looks so much better red than black but hey whatever floats your boat.

[nathy_s2]

New lines, more time with the mask.

[Liki]

it means his control over his powers is growing, and as a bonus hes able to hold the mask for longer periods of time. also while in hollow form he was able to regenerate in an accelerated speed. maybe once he gains control over the hollow powers more he will be able to heal wounds quickly while wearing the mask.

[Sephy_Chan]

I just hope Ichigo will gain more and more control over his hollow form so that he can fight as a hollow (the one we saw in chapter 222) :love

That is what I hope for, that he in a way can 'release' just like the Arrancar do.
*goes back to daydreaming*

[Southwind]

Wow, that was good! Although I want to say it's just a mistake but this sort of mistake isn't what you repeat. For Kubo, characters are what comes first. So I think that the red lines most probably show his hollow side taking over (I may be wrong) but the other Vizards have their masks all white. So it would seem to me that Ichigo is losing control or that Kubo just wants him to look cooler. *confused* heh.....

[Aalicia]

I'll go for growing Vizard power and

that Kubo just wants him to look cooler.

[Jushiro]

First, good article samna, very interesting read.

Now about his mask I have no clue but hopefully it means he is getting stronger because he is going to need more power if he is going to defeat #4 Espada.

[sketch]

I'm pretty certain that it's nothing to do with the drawing, it's a bit too much of a difference for it to simply be a mistake. Plus, the fact that there are difference each time, more lines, more connections each time, I doubt that it's down to Kubo forgetting the original design. Needless to say, it's an important one.

I'm a bit torn between two of the options, so I have this little theory. I'm not sure if someone had mentioned it on this thread already, but what they hey.

I'd say it's both the power theory and the Shirosaki theory. Because, I think at the same time as it meaning he gets stronger (which would explain his sudden bursts of strength, ten minutes after being too weak with no training) I think that the stronger he gets, the more he's relying on Shirosaki, meaning the more power Shirosaki could potentially have over Ichigo.

[Fyrefox]

I think it'll get half-and-half. Ichigo has two things to drawn power from: his soul's own powers and Shirosaki. When he was relying on Zangetsu (his training with Urahara and Yuroichi) Zangetsu got stronger, and Ichigo indirectly. When he leans towards Shirosaki (whether or not he means to) that part grows stronger. Eventually, they'll be balanced perfectly, and it'll show in more than just his mask. That's simply the first sign.

However, notice how everyone's but Hiyori's mask is completely white (at least, as far as I remember)? If the red show's the Hollow's power, then everyone except Hiyori and Ichigo have complete dominance of their Hollow. If the mask goes over half red, then Ichigo begins to lose control of his body, both physical and spiritual. Sort of like narcolepsy, but......you know. Shirosaki gets to play the role of Ichigo, and Ichigo is stuck in his blue world until the 'attack' ends.

[BleachOD]

I don't think Ogichi will take over... (Why does everyone call him Shirosaki. His name is Ogichi Ikasoruk :confused:)

I think the next time we see him. He will just be a mentor like his other self, the Old man.
I really don't believe he really wanted to hurt Ichigo ever. "He's the king of the world. I can't let him NOT win" I believe that he's always wanted to be the horse. He was just frustrated his king wouldn't use him. I do think the more his mask evolves the greater his power is...or should I say control over that power.


I like Ogichi but I don't care if I never see him...Ichigo makes him for me and not the other way around.

[Aalicia]

I don't think Ogichi will take over... (Why does everyone call him Shirosaki. His name is Ogichi Ikasoruk :confused:

He doesn't have a name, Ogichi Ikasoruk is just Kurosaki Ichigo upside down. Shirosaki is our "cute" name for him, given he's like a white Kurosaki.

And I don't think he likes being the horse, he just wasn't powerful the enough to defy Ichigo's crown at that point.

[Kastro187420]

And I don't think he likes being the horse, he just wasn't powerful the enough to defy Ichigo's crown at that point.

Well, according to Hollow Ichigo, he said: "I dunno about Zangetsu, but I refuse to carry a king who's weaker than me, and get cut to shreds with him. If your weaker than me, then I'll destroy you, and take your crown for myself."

I take that to mean that, he doesn't want to die. He wants to exist, and be able to fight. If Ichigo is too weak to help him stay alive, then he'll take matters into his own hands, for Self-preservation.

I don't believe he LIKES to be the horse, but that he'll accept the position as long as it doesn't get him killed. I think a big part of Hollow Ichigo's purpose during their fight, was to help Ichigo learn to be a better fighter, to show him to use the power he has. Kinda like what Zangetsu was doing. Its just that Ichigo was afraid of his Hollow Power. He wanted to be able to control it, but he didn't want to have to confront it.

I believe the lines on Ichigo's mask, may more represent his acceptance of his hollow side. I don't believe that the fact that the other vizards have pure white masks means anything though. It could just be their hollows style.

If you look here:

http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000222/02.jpg
(bleh, I can't get the spoiler tags to work right, so I just put the link.)

You see that his full hollow form has a bunch of lines on it aswell.. So I think his lines on his mask, are just representing his acceptance of his hollow side. The more lines = more control.

Thats my thoughts anyway. I didn't read through all 7 pages to see if anything has been said about what I mentioned already, but I'm sure it probably has.

[jcharliec]

Nice observation... I think all this lines and the evolution has to be with the control of his iner hollow powers... Its clearly not a mistake.... it is widering every time just like his power...

On the other hand Hiyori just has litle red marks, and shinji has none... its completly white.... this lines could also mean that shirosaki is coming again to take control...
I was also looking the turn back the pendulum and hiyori's mask looks the same as now....

[Aalicia]

Well, according to Hollow Ichigo, he said: "I dunno about Zangetsu, but I refuse to carry a king who's weaker than me, and get cut to shreds with him. If your weaker than me, then I'll destroy you, and take your crown for myself."

You're talking about a whole other fight, I was refering to the one pointed on the post I quoted, when Shirosaki was sent by Zangetsu to fight Ichigo.

And I don't think it's just a matter of self preservation, or the whole why one is the king and the other is the horse dilema would play a lesser metaphor. Shirosaki wants control. Ichigo has to outwill him to keep in control. When they fought for control, Shirosaki didn't seem pleased to lose, as he should, if it were just a matter of knowing Ichigo is still strong enough to be the king. He was resigned. So, for now, he can't yet take his crown, but he's eagerly waiting for the day in which he can.

On whether or not the lines in the mask relate to that, one has yet to find out.

[Kastro187420]

You're talking about a whole other fight, I was refering to the one pointed on the post I quoted, when Shirosaki was sent by Zangetsu to fight Ichigo.

And I don't think it's just a matter of self preservation, or the whole why one is the king and the other is the horse dilema would play a lesser metaphor. Shirosaki wants control. Ichigo has to outwill him to keep in control. When they fought for control, Shirosaki didn't seem pleased to lose, as he should, if it were just a matter of knowing Ichigo is still strong enough to be the king. He was resigned. So, for now, he can't yet take his crown, but he's eagerly waiting for the day in which he can.

On whether or not the lines in the mask relate to that, one has yet to find out.

I'm not saying that Hollow Ichigo is HAPPY with his position, I think its just more that he'll accept the position a bit more now that he knows Ichigo is strong enough to help him survive.

The reason I also think its about Self-preservation is, each time that Shirosaki has been talking, its been to tell Ichigo that he too doesn't want to die:

http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000112/01.jpg

Here, he says he didn't want to help, but that for the sake of living, he would. Its almost like he didn't wanna get involved, but did so because it was his life at stake too.

http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000165/18.jpg

Here, he again intervenes because he feels he's going to die aswell if Ichigo doesn't win. He resists Ichigo taking back control due to the fact that he doesn't believe in Ichigo's ability to win. So he reluctantly is driven off.

http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000220/15.jpg

And now finally, here, we see him telling Ichigo that because Ichigo is too weak, he refuses to let Ichigo be in charge anymore, and so now wishes to take control.

Its true that Shirosaki wants control, but I more believe it to be that he wants that control because he doesn't believe in Ichigo's potential. If Ichigo can prove to him that he's willing and capable to do whats needed to survive, then I think Shirosaki would be more willing to accept his position.

But for now, due to being driven off, he's been forced to accept it, and for now, has done so. We haven't seen him since then, or even had any hints that he may be coming back, aside from that one when he was defeated.

[BleachOD]

He doesn't have a name, Ogichi Ikasoruk is just Kurosaki Ichigo upside down. Shirosaki is our "cute" name for him, given he's like a white Kurosaki.

And I don't think he likes being the horse, he just wasn't powerful the enough to defy Ichigo's crown at that point.

The cover in which he is featured Has name. It's Ichigo Kurosaki backwards since he is a mirror image of Ichigo. His name is Oigichi Ikasoruk. Because it's Ichigo Kurosaki backwards.....

You mean a White Zangetsu? He is Zangetsu. His form is white while his other self is Black.

(It's the Ichigo fangirl thing):love

[Copycat1773]

I have a feeling that Kubo is just making us wait for aomething big. Maybe when the mask goes completely red, Ichigo will be at Maximum Power, or something. I have a feeling Kubo is just trying to make us over think stuff like this... maybe it doesn't mean anything, and Kubo is just a sneaky bastard who is trying to trick us.
Who knows? :lmao
As far as anyone knows, it could just mean that Uryuu is gay! That totally has nothing to do with Ichigo's mask, but who really knows, anyway?
XDDDDDDDDD :lmao

[Aalicia]

Its true that Shirosaki wants control, but I more believe it to be that he wants that control because he doesn't believe in Ichigo's potential. If Ichigo can prove to him that he's willing and capable to do whats needed to survive, then I think Shirosaki would be more willing to accept his position.

I don't think Shirosaki will ever be willing to his position, he'll always need to be forced. The first time he fought Ichigo, he was under Zangetsu's dominance. He once almost got Ichigo killed against Yammi because Ichigo was refusing to give him dominance. Given Shirosaki began to be stronger than Zangetsu, drawing Zangetsu's power started to increase Shirosaki's domain over Ichigo. It's not just survivabilty, it's not just trusting Ichigo's potential. There's a line Shirosaki says, after the first page you posted on your last post, that goes something like: "Train him well, Zangetsu, train him well. Because all that power is going to be mine one day.". That hints me that, no matter how great Ichigo becomes in terms of power, Shirosaki will always be biding his time to take control. It's not Ichigo having to prove his power and worth to Shirosaki, so that they both survive. It's Ichigo having to outwill Shirosaki for the control of his own soul, so that Ichigo can maintain dominance over his hollow and its powers, instead of the hollow devouring his soul and be the one in dominance of Ichigo's titanic reiatsu.

One thing will be funny though: at first, the mask was the signal of Shirosaki taking over. Now that the mask is something Ichigo can put on and off at will, what will be the external sign of Shirosaki's attempt to come out?... Ichigo with a tail, anyone?... ^^

The cover in which he is featured Has name. It's Ichigo Kurosaki backwards since he is a mirror image of Ichigo. His name is Oigichi Ikasoruk. Because it's Ichigo Kurosaki backwards.....

You basicly said the same thing I did, it's Ichigo Kurosaki upside down/backwards. The reason I say that's not actually his name is because he himself said he had no name.

[vaizado]

Speaking of Ichigo (dont think another thread is neccessary so i'll ask here), have his Bankai clothes been black and white? I just realized lately that they're white and black in the manga and not red and black.

[Aalicia]

Speaking of Ichigo (dont think another thread is neccessary so i'll ask here), have his Bankai clothes been black and white? I just realized lately that they're white and black in the manga and not red and black.

Everything in the manga is black and white, one didn't know Avirama was actually red until the color spread, so I don't know which difference you're speaking of... o.O

[vaizado]

Everything in the manga is black and white, one didn't know Avirama was actually red until the color spread, so I don't know which difference you're speaking of... o.O

In the manga, Ichigo's clothes are black and white. In the anime, they're read and black:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t40/flywhiteboy32/Ichigo_Bankai.jpg


I could've sworn I saw a coloured page in the manga showing them that color too, but looking at the recent chapters it's black and white. Did Kubo change from red to white or am I just imagining things?

EDIT:

Ah-ha!

This is the one; is this original Kubo colouring or fan colouring?

http://accel96.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/0/38/65/34/bleach/ichigo-bankai.jpg

If it's Kubo's colouring, then he did change from red to white.

[Kastro187420]

There's a line Shirosaki says, after the first page you posted on your last post, that goes something like: "Train him well, Zangetsu, train him well. Because all that power is going to be mine one day.". That hints me that, no matter how great Ichigo becomes in terms of power, Shirosaki will always be biding his time to take control.

One thing will be funny though: at first, the mask was the signal of Shirosaki taking over. Now that the mask is something Ichigo can put on and off at will, what will be the external sign of Shirosaki's attempt to come out?... Ichigo with a tail, anyone?... ^^

Well, I can't deny that your right about that other line. It does hint that he wants control, but every thing thus far, has seemed to indicate he only tries to attain that control when his life is threatened along with Ichigo's. If he truly wanted control, it would make more sense to try and take that control when Ichigo was the weakest, or at least attempt to a few more times than he has so far.

When Ichigo was fighting Yammy, I think Shirosaki was trying to punish him for ignoring him and disallowing him to fight. Shirosaki wanted to fight, but Ichigo kept suppressing him. Its hard to say for sure since we didn't see it, but I think that either Shirosaki would've gained control and killed Yami, or that Shirosaki would've given up. Its doubtful he would've given up because he's always tried hard to stay in control, so I'm more leaning towards he would've taken control.

The Mask being a sign of Shirosaki coming out was a good hint, but I think next time he comes, we won't see a hint. We'll see Ulquiorra beat ichigo senseless, and then while he's unconscious, he'll meet up with Zangetsu, who will bring out Shirosaki, and then who knows what'll happen.


And about his Cape, here is an official color page from Kubo I believe:

Chapter 317 Page 01:

http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000064232/01.jpg

[BleachOD]

I don't think Shirosaki will ever be willing to his position, he'll always need to be forced. The first time he fought Ichigo, he was under Zangetsu's dominance. He once almost got Ichigo killed against Yammi because Ichigo was refusing to give him dominance. Given Shirosaki began to be stronger than Zangetsu, drawing Zangetsu's power started to increase Shirosaki's domain over Ichigo. It's not just survivabilty, it's not just trusting Ichigo's potential. There's a line Shirosaki says, after the first page you posted on your last post, that goes something like: "Train him well, Zangetsu, train him well. Because all that power is going to be mine one day.". That hints me that, no matter how great Ichigo becomes in terms of power, Shirosaki will always be biding his time to take control. It's not Ichigo having to prove his power and worth to Shirosaki, so that they both survive. It's Ichigo having to outwill Shirosaki for the control of his own soul, so that Ichigo can maintain dominance over his hollow and its powers, instead of the hollow devouring his soul and be the one in dominance of Ichigo's titanic reiatsu.

One thing will be funny though: at first, the mask was the signal of Shirosaki taking over. Now that the mask is something Ichigo can put on and off at will, what will be the external sign of Shirosaki's attempt to come out?... Ichigo with a tail, anyone?... ^^



You basicly said the same thing I did, it's Ichigo Kurosaki upside down/backwards. The reason I say that's not actually his name is because he himself said he had no name.

No we both agreed it was backwards. He said he had no name. But kubo gave him one after he said that. It's Ogichi Ikasorak...


The incomplete mask was the signal that Ichigo and Hollow were not one and that he had no control. The complete mask means that he has subjugated his Hollow.

The Mask technically is another Zankpakuto. When he became a Viazard, by almost becoming a hollow cause his reiatsu to split..

This effected his Zankpakuto because it is a direct reflection of his Reiastu. It's shinigami powers were Dominant because he released them first. His hollow powers also had to be released but I believe it had to be released in a near-death state.
This is how Oigichi was released. This was his materialization. From then on he could come out on his own. Because Ichigo had Yet to subjugate him. He couldn't use him fully, and unlike the old man. He had the power to drive him insane. Once Ichigo went through the Vaizard training which was like Bankai training except an internal battle.

His Reiatsu could not go back to being one entity and became two separate entities/Zankapakuto's that can co-exist. since they are two halves of the same whole, one light one dark. So I believe He gained two Zankpaktou's .

One manifest itself into the form of a sword to represent the Shinigami powers he has. The other manifests itself as Hollow Mask which allows Ichigo to mimic the powers of a hollow when wearing it as well as increasing his speed and strength . Since that is the left-over by-product of his almost becoming a hollow. I don't believe the Hollow is really a Hollow so to speak. His reiastu just appears as one because of the mutation of his powers, and his appearance is closer to Ichigo because he is like a Death Mask of Ichigo. He is what a Dead Ichigo would look like... He is the dark side of Ichigo. Everyone has a bit of darkness in their hearts. White is the color for death in eastern culture not Black.

Make sense?

[Aalicia]

When Ichigo was fighting Yammy, I think Shirosaki was trying to punish him for ignoring him and disallowing him to fight.

But that's the thing, Ichigo was pawning Yammi's rear end, up untill Shirosaki decided to tag along, there was no reason for Shirosaki to come out so they could both survive, no reason for him to question Ichigo's power. On the Byakuya fight, he could have had that excuse, but not on Yammi's. That's why I think, no matter if his life is threatened, no matter if Ichigo grows stronger or proves himself worthy, Shirosaki grows strong on par with him. The one obstacle on Shirosaki's freedom is Ichigo's will to be in control. As soon as Shirosaki feels that will to waver, he'll be striving to take the crown. And the stronger Ichigo is by then, the merrier, given more power will Shirosaki have at his disposal.

Was Ichigo's bankai ever black and white on manga color spreads?... Because I've always remembered it red, but one has no true color notion on the manga, aside from spreads, that's why I don't know what difference vaizado is talking about... o.O

[vaizado]

And about his Cape, here is an official color page from Kubo I believe:

Chapter 317 Page 01:

http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/000064232/01.jpg

Wow. Kubo is weird. Sometimes it's red and other times it's white? :confused:

[Kastro187420]

But that's the thing, Ichigo was pawning Yammi's rear end, up untill Shirosaki decided to tag along, there was no reason for Shirosaki to come out so they could both survive, no reason for him to question Ichigo's power. On the Byakuya fight, he could have had that excuse, but not on Yammi's. That's why I think, no matter if his life is threatened, no matter if Ichigo grows stronger or proves himself worthy, Shirosaki grows strong on par with him. The one obstacle on Shirosaki's freedom is Ichigo's will to be in control. As soon as Shirosaki feels that will to waver, he'll be striving to take the crown. And the stronger Ichigo is by then, the merrier, given more power will Shirosaki have at his disposal.

Was Ichigo's bankai ever black and white on manga color spreads?... Because I've always remembered it red, but one has no true color notion on the manga, aside from spreads, that's why I don't know what difference vaizado is talking about... o.O

I think the reason Shirosaki interfered in Ichigo's fight against Yami, was more because he wanted to fight, but Ichigo didn't let him, so he punished Ichigo.

It could also be, that Shirosaki sensed Ulquiorra's strength, and knew Ichigo wouldn't be able to take him, and so before Ichigo did anything stupid, he tried to step in.

I mean, its impossible to say for sure why he did interfere. We could say that he just wanted control, but he'd have no control if he interfered to the point where he got Ichigo and himself killed. And he's made it obvious every time we see him, that he desires to live. We could also say that he sensed Ulquiorra's power, and wanted to take them out before Ichigo got killed, but because it didn't happen, its hard to say.

His actions conflict with his desire to live.

[BleachOD]

Ogichi came out because Ichigo choked when He saw Yammi's mask and Zankpakuto. Before that he had already been mind-f-cking Ichigo because of his fear of him. When he came out during the Yammi episode. I believe it was because of the fact he could sense Ichigo was in danger. He was berating him for not relying on him. "One day that power is gonna be mine" Doesn't sound like a threat...especially since he added. "He's the King of this world...I can't let him not win. Raise him well..."

He is a part of Ichigo, born from him. If he wanted to take over. He wouldn't have taught him how to beat him. Every time Ichigo saw him ...He learned from him. He's just does it a different way because he is the bad side. No niceties ...

Because it will kill me..

Ichigo chapter 217 "Hole in my heart. It has him and his name
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/ichigowife/holeinmyheartIchigo.jpg

"Shirosaki Chapter 220 "King & His Horse" It to has his name. This is when KT officially named him. Oigichi Ikasoruk. Ichigo Kurosaki backwards...but that is his name. Shirosaki, Hichigo is cool but he has a name...
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/ichigowife/oigichi.jpg

[Aalicia]

Wow. Kubo is weird. Sometimes it's red and other times it's white? :confused:

I'd agree with you, if only you'd show me when it was white. Because I can't remember one single color spread with black and white bankai on Ichigo and both posted here show red.

Make sense?

Does, but my interpretation is different. I don't see Shirosaki as another zampakuto. Ichigo was born with shinigami powers over being the son of a shinigami, but he had to awaken them, on that, I follow you. However, he wasn't born with the hollow. Part of him hollowfied, given he got so close to become a hollow while trying to awaken the shinigami powers. Any human soul becomes a hollow, in time, if their chain of fate is severed, that's what Urahara said. So, if not for Ichigo being a shinigami, and successfully awakening that power, his whole soul would have hollowfied, as it happens with normal humans. To take the hollow as another zampakuto is basicly saying every human has zampakutos, that devour them when their chain of fate is severed. And I find that concept antagonic, given a zampakuto is a shinigami only weapon. Arrancars have zampakutos because they gain shinigami powers and both arrancars and vizards are hybrids of shinigami with hollow, hence making it unlikely for a hollow to fit the concept of zampakuto. Or all hollows would be zampakutos, and not need hybridization to gain one.

So, to me, basicly Ichigo has 2 different entities inside his inner world, but one has domain over the other. When Zangetsu was the strongest, he could keep Shirosaki inside of him and call him at will. When Shirosaki became the strongest, he kept Zangetsu within him, hence increasing his own power over Ichigo everytime he would try to use Zangetsu's power. And to me, Shirosaki is really a hollow, hence Ichigo himself becoming a hollow, when Shirosaki is dominant (which was what happened when he was with the Vizards). Shirosaki being the inner manifestation of that hollow, same way as Zangetsu is the inner manifestation of the zampakuto. The outer manifestation is the sword for Zangetsu and the hollowfication of Ichigo's body for the hollow. Only, given Ichigo has control over it, he can summon the hollow power and use it (outer manifestation being the mask), same as when he goes bankai (outer manifestation being the black sword and the robes, on which's color we have been also discussing about, apparently...).

Still, his zampakuto isn't something that can devour him, it can only refuse to lend its power, if finding Ichigo unworthy of it. The hollow, however, is either restrained or consuming, meaning Ichigo either controls it or becomes devoured and controled by it, which is another difference in between hollow and zampakuto, and why I don't fit both in the same cathegory. So, seeing Shirosaki as not wanting to devour Ichigo, and simply wanting to mentor him through becoming stronger so they both survive is like saying hollows don't want to eat souls, they just want to make those souls stronger. I'm not saying you can't be right, it can make sense, but it clashes against the prespective I've had of hollows so far, and my own interpretation of Shirosaki's actions and words.

[Kastro187420]

Quick Question regarding Ichigo's Mask:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5115/ichimasknp1.png

Has it always been able to open up like that? Or can he only do that in intense moments of power? That happened during his fight with Grimmjow in the Real World shortly after he learned how to suppress his hollow.

[BleachOD]

Ok...quickly.

I said the Hollow was born from him. I didn't say he was born with it. He had his own powers but they were dormant. They were awakened at the same time he became a Vaizard. So his reiatsu mutated and split. "Originally Zangetsu and I were one" "We are both your power" Zangetsu is a warrior. Because he's is a part of Ichigo's consciousness. He is also his spirit power. He manifest into the form of a Shinigami's Zankpakuto because
Ichigo is a shinketsu (pure blood) so that is his original form. However when Ichigo became a Vaizard that Consciousness became two separate ones. Because one is a reflection of the Hollow/ Death/Dark side of Ichigo's spirit power. It cannot manifest as a Shinigami tool because it uses Hollow powers therefore it has to manifest as Hollow Mask so Ichigo can use it's Hollow powers.

You seem to be confused. Every human does not have hollow in them.

They can become Hollows. If your chain of fate is severed you are dead. You become a hollow one of three ways. If your chain of fate disappears, is removed or erodes completely. You become a hollow because the chain of fate is connected to your human heart. The hole is the symbol that you have lost your heart. (You become a creature of instinct Hence the animal & insect forms)

Or they are consumed by sorrow and become one of their own volition (How was never explained) Or they are attacked by Hollows and turned into one i.e Sora/ Acidwire/Orihime's brother.

I didn't say every human has Zankpakuto's nor did I say that they could devour them. Only humans with high amounts of Spirit powers and Pureblood Shinigami (Who are humanoid but not human) have the ability to produce a Zankpakuto. (Both Chad and Orihime powers are similar to both Zanks and Hollow powers. Which I believe Ichigo's mutation in his effected theirs. Chad took the Hollow side, Orihime the Shingami/Vaizard powers)

I said that since his reiastu mutated and split. Because he almost became a hollow but did not (Else he's have a hole somewhere) He just went through hollowfication but did not turn into a Hollow. He returned to being a Shinigami but not with out some side-effects. The consciousness became two beings in one. The original had control because Ichigo had not yet reached materialization with his Hollow side. Unlike with Zangetsu who he called out on his own. During his fight with Zaraki. When Ichigo was near death Zangetsu. came out on his own. Previously Ichigo had to go into his own world.

Each time Ichigo became a Shinigami he had to die.When Rukia gave her powers to Icihigo, Ichigo's natural powers began to awaken. Zangetsu existed but Ichigo could not speak to him, wasn't even aware he existed. He was still dormant.

To get him back Urahara had to kill him again (Rukia killed him first) and nearly turn him into a Hollow. (I think that was done because of the upcoming battles and Urahara knew a green Shinigami wasn't enough. I don't believe he had to turn him into a Vaizard to get it back) At that time Oigichi was born from Ichigo and Zangetsu. Since Originally he was both, just part of the collective. Ichigo met him for the first time when in Zangetsu's world. (Before Bankai training, before Materialization. It was just like when he met Zangetsu and gained his Shikai)

Then during Byakuya battle once again when Ichigo was near death and wanted to win. Ogichi came out. He materialized as a partial Hollow Mask because he is Ichigo's Hollow powers. He cannot manifest as a Shinigami tool. However he is a part of Ichigo, and he was born from his soul, from his spirit power. He is a weapon, but Ichigo can't use him unless he wears him. During the Byakuya battle because you could say... that it was like a Shikai stage. It is a Ichigo's battle instinct so he's a little crazy. Ichigo is strong willed so is his hollow side. Ichigo had not yet subjugated him like hid did with the other Zangetsu. So he couldn't control him and that made him fear him. Once he did the mask changed and he comes out but he and Ichigo are integrated so he's not a loose canon. Ichigo is kinda of emotionless when he goes Vaizard.
Each time Ichigo became a Hollow before He got control. He had to die first...

So that's what I mean by in a sense...The Mask is really another Zankpakuto. One that allows the wearer to use or mimic Hollow powers. (May even be a form that's half Hollow-Shingami)
If you noticed the Original Bankai outfit was Black and White because it was and integration of him and Zangetsu. It's like they become one. Now the Hollow has become a part of the collective consciousness. So now his outfit has the red for the Hollow side...

Damn that wasn't quick at all..:p
@Kastro
It was the first time we saw him. However he talked with partial mask and Hollow can open their mouths ...so I don't see why he shouldn't be able to all the time

[memnarch]

I think it either means that Kubo was refining his mask design (which is bound to happen as any artist gets better at what they do) OR it's just the hollow becoming more and more advanced, if you want a canon explanation.

@ Kastro: I believe that was a liberty taken on the part of the animators. I was just rereading the chapter where that happens in the manga and it doesn't look like he opens his mouth when Kubo drew it.

[Aalicia]

You seem to be confused. Every human does not have hollow in them.

They can become Hollows. If your chain of fate is severed you are dead.

Not at all, I said the same:

Any human soul becomes a hollow, in time, if their chain of fate is severed, that's what Urahara said.

I never said human souls have a hollow within, just all bare the potential to become one. I used the verb to become on my post, I'm sorry if anything else in it caused misunderstanding towards hinting human souls have hollows inside originally, my intent was to put forth the ability of any human soul to become a hollow, opposed to the potential of gaining a zampakuto, which is shinigami exclusive. On that, we ride on the same track, our opinions merely divert when it comes to Shirosaki's intentions and motives, aswell as his own definition, given I see him as square hollow while your definition of him is closer to the one of a zampakuto, or at least so has you hinted me with lines like:

So I believe He gained two Zankpaktou's .

Hence I felt like elaborating why this concept is different from mine.

Oh, almost forgot:

If you noticed the Original Bankai outfit was Black and White because it was and integration of him and Zangetsu.

So this is what vaizado was talking about aswell, but, can anyone show me the color spread on which it was white? I've been asking for it ever since vaizado came up with the question about it, and all I see is red bankai Ichigo from the start...

[Rain]

Aalicia- http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000286/02-03.jpg

it was white there



Kastro- I don't remember if hes ever done it in the manga, but it doesn't usually open, its the same with GJ's mask piece, it generally doesn't open but it has before

[vaizado]

I'd agree with you, if only you'd show me when it was white. Because I can't remember one single color spread with black and white bankai on Ichigo and both posted here show red.


http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000286/02-03.jpg

http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000289/01.jpg

[Aalicia]

http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000286/02-03.jpg

http://img46.onemanga.com/mangas/00000003/00000289/01.jpg

Thanks, Rain and vaizado, yes, now I agree with you, KT's wierd on that, alright.

... maybe it's why it's called Bleach: at some point, Ichigo bleached his bankai robes by mistake!

... yeah, lame, I know, I'll shut up now.

[Loose Canon]

I always thought of it as a count down. At first I thought it was more to do with the hollow taking over, but he clearly has control of it now so I'm doubting that theory. I believe it's now pointing to his growing control over his own reiatsu which at the start of Bleach he had zero control over.

Now he's gaining fighting experience and learning to gain the killer instinct. I think it's somehow connected to his overall strength. The hollow is part of Ichigo it came from his soul, same as Zangetsu. So he's evolving into a better killing machine, gaining more power from his previous untapped reiatsu.


I hope later in the manga this gets explained as Kubo has been very good to show the changing mask. There has to be some signifigance and I'll be disappointed if there's no explaination at the end of the manga.

I agree with Mz D on it being some kind of countdown. Maybe a countdown to a further merging/control of Ogichi's hollow powers? I don't know about everyone else, but I for one would LOVE to see a Cero from Ichigo. :love

About the mask... I'm hoping that when it shows up next (as of this typing the final battle with Ulquiorra in the 5th tower) it'd be fierce to see another slight difference in it. One can hope, anyway. :D

Great original post, btw, samnas. Reps to ya! :thumbs

[Aalicia]

I don't know about everyone else, but I for one would LOVE to see a Cero from Ichigo. :love

I'm expecting one. Shinji used one, and while Ichigo was at the Vizards' and turning into a hollow, he was going to use one, so Ichigo's hollow has cero power, but I'm guessing maybe he'll need further training with the Vizards to start using it. ... either that, or his hand will just go beserk during his fight with Ulquiorra...

[smacharia8]

Regarding the bankai color, if we go by manga only, the only time when it was red on the inside was the first time after going against SKY, which left Ichigo covered in blood.

Just another way of looking at it...although we could really use some vizard action right about now. I wonder how much longer till we get back to HM.

[DarkPulsar]

Thanks, Rain and vaizado, yes, now I agree with you, KT's wierd on that, alright.

... maybe it's why it's called Bleach: at some point, Ichigo bleached his bankai robes by mistake!

... yeah, lame, I know, I'll shut up now.


Actually, it was named after a Nirvana album. :D


As for on topic, I think the mask lines represent growing control moreso than power. Each time, Ichi seems to be getting more and more control, though the strength doesn't seem to be hugely increased. Though once he has full control, if/when that is, I think his power will shoot up also...

[thewizardninja]

Maybe it's like a synch bar, you know, showing how in synch he is with his hollow. The red has been increasing the more he uses it's power so it would make sense. When the left (our right) side becomes completely red, I predict that the whole mask will turn red directly afterwards and a powa up ensues. I also predict this powa up will occur during the battle with Ulqui because let's face it, he is nowhere near ready at the moment. Maybe he'll get enough of a powa up to use a cero as Canon said or, maybe he'll turn hollow and reak havoc and have to confront shirosaki again to make himself stop. Whatever happens, I say it shows his next powa up.

[Kastro187420]

I was just thinking, and this could be a stretch, but what if while Ichigo was a Hollow during his Vizard Training, it wasn't him or Shirosaki in control? I'm thinking maybe at some point, Ichigo's body will fully transform into a hollow, or he'll overuse his mask and cause it to transform before he's fully ready to control it, and he won't be able to stop the transformation on his own. At that point, he will need the help of Shirosaki to help him stop his transformation, and thats how we'll see Shirosaki introduced again.

Its a stretch, but I was just thinking back to that battle as he was trying to suppress his hollow, and if its anything like we've seen before, theoretically, neither of them should've been in control while they were in that world. Everytime Ichigo has been there, he's been unconscious and his body not responsive to his actions.

So it would make sense for the same to apply to Shirosaki. I mean, surely Shirosaki is smart enough to realize what was going on, or strong enough to beat the Vizard before they even release their shikai (he choked Hiyori's vizard powers out bare handed with only half a mask).

The way the Lizard Hollow thing was fighting makes me wonder if maybe it wasn't Shirosaki in control, but the hollow itself, and that Shirosaki or Ichigo need to issue that control, but were too busy.


Anyway, that has little to nothing to do with the lines on his mask, but it was just something I was thinking about last night while trying to sleep.

[Aalicia]

^If you end up being right on this, in between Ichigo, Zangetsu, Shirosaki and what you suggest as being the true hollow, Ichigo's inner world will be more crouded than a Matsumoto's sake party, one of these days...

[BleachOD]

I was just thinking, and this could be a stretch, but what if while Ichigo was a Hollow during his Vizard Training, it wasn't him or Shirosaki in control? I'm thinking maybe at some point, Ichigo's body will fully transform into a hollow, or he'll overuse his mask and cause it to transform before he's fully ready to control it, and he won't be able to stop the transformation on his own. At that point, he will need the help of Shirosaki to help him stop his transformation, and thats how we'll see Shirosaki introduced again.

Its a stretch, but I was just thinking back to that battle as he was trying to suppress his hollow, and if its anything like we've seen before, theoretically, neither of them should've been in control while they were in that world. Everytime Ichigo has been there, he's been unconscious and his body not responsive to his actions.

So it would make sense for the same to apply to Shirosaki. I mean, surely Shirosaki is smart enough to realize what was going on, or strong enough to beat the Vizard before they even release their shikai (he choked Hiyori's vizard powers out bare handed with only half a mask).

The way the Lizard Hollow thing was fighting makes me wonder if maybe it wasn't Shirosaki in control, but the hollow itself, and that Shirosaki or Ichigo need to issue that control, but were too busy.


Anyway, that has little to nothing to do with the lines on his mask, but it was just something I was thinking about last night while trying to sleep.

I think he has hollow form to. Ichigo was not unconscious every time only the time during Vaizard training. He was near death but not unconscious.

He was yelling when he became a Vaizard, and he was talking to "O-san" at the same time.

Zarak...Ichigo he was bleeding and panting but he did not pass out. They just did a mind-meld

Ogichi came out because it was his turn to be subjugated. He was instructing Ichigo the entire time. He was not trying to hurt him.

Ichigo was having an internal battle but it effected him physically. Since he was insane and fighting himself the Vaizards had to fight him to keep him from destroying everything. (If you think about it it's just like Bankai training except he had to fight many Zangetsu's to achieve super speed)

I think the lines indicate how strong he's gotten. He's already merged with hollow they are integrated. He just needs to learn more about it's power. We may see him but he won't take over. He's the horse

[Vordark Kisuke]

to me, its nothing big... maybe it signifies the length of time ichigo can keep his mask on... he only able to keep it for few seconds only in the beginning rite?

[Rain]

to me, its nothing big... maybe it signifies the length of time ichigo can keep his mask on... he only able to keep it for few seconds only in the beginning rite?

thats true, but we've seen new lines before he ever started using the mask

and I don't think there were any changes (after Ulqui) while he got that big increase against GJ

[thewizardninja]

He's the horse

Don't forget though, Shirosaki also said that if Ichigo falters then he would trample Ichigo underneath his feet - king or not. Then he would become the king (That's some major foreshadowing if you ask me)

[DarkPulsar]

Always sounded like more of a threat than foreshadowing, imo. It's pretty in his hollow's character to say something like that.

[thewizardninja]

Always sounded like more of a threat than foreshadowing, imo. It's pretty in his hollow's character to say something like that.

He doesn't seem like the kind of person to threaten without being able to back it up though. I say if the opportunity arises *cough* Ulquirra kicking Ichigo's ass again *cough* he'll take it head on.

[Aalicia]

He doesn't seem like the kind of person to threaten without being able to back it up though.

Ditto.

[Kastro187420]

I definitely think we'll see Shirosaki again, he's too cool of a character to just go out like that. Plus, if Ichigo is going to take on Ulquiorra's released form, he has to get some sort of help, and that help will probably come from Shirosaki. I mean, even in his mask, going all out with a fully powered Getsuga Tenshou attack, he barely did anything to an unreleased Ulquiorra, who only used his hands.

So something has to give, and the only thing I can see happening, is for Shirosaki to make another appearance.

[BleachAddict]

wow.. that's cool samnas

i think it means he is getting stronger (vizard mode) and consequently the hollow is getting stronger as well. The thick black (the hollow's reiatsu is black, if i am not mistaken) is on its way to covering the whole mask which indicates that his hollow's powers are getting stronger.

Is it a sign of power-up? yes, but not entirely just for Ichigo. I also don't think that this is a sign of his "control" over his hollow powers. I am still not convinced that the extended length of time he managed to have the mask on signified his "control" over his vizard powers. I think that it was Hueco Mundo's effect to his hollow powers. sort of like the effect of HM to Chad's powers.

[DarkPulsar]

He doesn't seem like the kind of person to threaten without being able to back it up though. I say if the opportunity arises *cough* Ulquirra kicking Ichigo's ass again *cough* he'll take it head on.

He also said "if you want to use my full power, don't die until I show up again." I fully expect him to show up again, in this fight against Ulqi even. I just expect Ichi to be given full control of his powers this time around, as opposed to the partial he currently has.

[Aalicia]

"if you want to use my full power

"If you really intend to have control over my power" - he never said full power, or at least, OM's translation didn't put it so. But, as it is, it hints more the continuity of controling the hollow powers, than the use of a full power. Though I believe Ichigo will have serious training ahead of him, to achieve Cero blasting and whatnot, unless he starts firing them by accident, as with the first few Getsuga Tenshous.

[gab00n]

I don't think Ichigo will necessarily have to train in order to fire ceros, it will be more like instinct. If you look at the time when Wanderweiss fired what seemed to be his first bala, it appeared strange to him as if instinct kicked in and it just happened. From then on it should just come natural, then it is just a matter of putting your energy into the attack.

[Vordark Kisuke]

1 thing for sure, there's no way he can win against ulquiorra witout his mask on... so i indicate tiz change of mask sud help him keep the mask longer... the important fact is, ulquiorra is much stonger than grimmjow, we'd saw how hard he faught wit grimm even wit his mask on... Kubo is doing sumthin wit his mask maybe for tiz fight..