A Plan For Peace

[Luhy]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/CaitsithArla/ATT00174.jpg
Robin Williams, wearing a shirt that says "I love New York " in Arabic.

You gotta love Robin Williams.....Even if he's nuts! Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.

Robin Williams' plan... (Hard
to argue with this logic!)

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan."

1 - "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those "good' ole' boys", we will never "interfere" again.

2 - We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany , South Korea , the Middle East, and the Philippines . They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence..

3 - All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal...! France will welcome them.

4 - All future visitors w ill be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless give n a special permit! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5 - No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

6 - The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for awhile .

7 - Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go somep la ce else. They can go somewhere else to sell their pr oduction. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8 - If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to
the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9 - Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10 - All Americans must go to charm and beauty school..... That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH..learn it ... or LEAVE... Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "

This did really well on Bleachforums~ I loved the culture clash and enjoyed seeing peoples reactions ^^ hopefully we can see some nice views from a lot of different people~ personally for the most part, I really like the things he said~ you can tell it was from him entertaining troops overseas, but I'm positive he put thought into it too~ Especially after Man Of The Year, one of his acts I caught was a lot more political, but he's still crazy lol x.x

The withdrawing troops thing... while it would be best for America both financially, for it's image, and keep our soldiers safe... it wouldn't be the right thing to do everywhere~ I used to have a friend in FFXI who told me stories about her great grandparents in South Korea... she was kinda crazy and a lot of people said bad things about her, but she had really sad stories about her grandma getting her breasts cut off, women being raped, people shot in the streets... and american soldiers are the reason she was born and the last of her family survived...

I think we're in Iraq for the wrong reasons... while they do need to form their own government, the ones in power atm are totalitarianists with no morality and no common sense. we're primarily there for oil, which isn't worth anyones blood, but after our invasions, we can't help them in a peaceful manner if we even wanted... I didn't know we had troops in Germany... o.o... what's going on over there!? o.o lol

[beautiful_death]

The U.S. has always been in Manifest Destiny mode since they declared their independence from Britain.
A need to Christianize and "civilize" non-white nations.

Just read "The White Man's Burden" by Rudyard Kipling and that pretty much sums up American foreign policy. (Scary factoid: That poem was actually written during the time of the Philippine-American War, considered to be the first Vietnam when the U.S. brutally occupied a territory for their own imperialist means)

I think the U.S. needs to shut down its bases in other countries. I have read and witnessed with my own eyes the consequences of having an American military presence in a foreign country (Philippines). And the U.S. definitely needs to stop intervening in other countries' matters and putting their own dictators in place of democratically-elected native leaders. It was wrong for the U.S. to occupy Iraq to begin with, and now we're paying the price. This type of imperialist bullshit makes me NOT proud to be an American.

[Luhy]

Previous Post: It's a shame that our political leaders are more concerned about their power/image and making a few bucks, than our own lives and safety... Since before WWII America has been acting like the police of Earth... Instead of trying to fix problems, by both causing problems and trying to take advantage, we could do something like establish a system of World-Healthcare... That would give America even more respect than sending troops all over x.x It's great when you hear stories about how troops have saved lives, and people are here today because of them... but it's not ok when so many families lose their sons and daughters while Bush's kids get to party and get DUIs with the money they were spoiled with from him and his oil drama

Something Shdo said in my Plan For Peace on BF:
the problem with global healthcare,is that to tell the truth humanity spend like 2000 billion a year on weapons,thats alot and if we just shift that money to healthcare this world would enter a golden age but and its a bug BUT...its good assuming the other side also stop spending money on weapons,if americawill cut its army budget by 50%(making it only 250 billion a year) do you think other world powers would decrease theirs?or increase it hoping to approch the new american budget?if america lose its grip as the world police some1 else will take it,hopfully the europians but it could b china or russia as well and then what?i really dont want to see a world with them as the dominent player.
My reply:
I know it's sad ._. It's like that Family Guy episode when the world ended... they made a new society, everyone had a job, everyone lived new happy lives... then they had guns... they decided to throw all the guns away, then they were attacked... by Stewie clones with tentacles x.x lol it's silly but it's true... If we cut our budget in un-necessary areas like weaponry... people would try to attack each other...

Isn't it a shame? So many currupt evil leaders all over the world... we could make so many lives easier... save so many people... have an alliance of leaders working together to proportionally give what they can to help each other, and once that's done... who knows what step 2 would be once the world is acting as 1... instead of 100s of different bodies of government making weapons ._.

[Vizard_King]

Most of those planes rock.
I don't like that comment about Us causing the problems. Old Osama and the gang of dumbasses have been causing problems LONG before we even cared about the Middle East.
No "Oil Drama" has taken place.
But I like the $10 a Barrel Idea.

[earthforge]

@Luhy: I agree. But Margaret Thatcher and Reagen began that trend (one of my favourite Thatcher quotes: "the world with nuclear weapons is safer.")

@beautiful death: I feel the same way. You might like to read Escape Velocity by Christopher Stasheff. It is considered science fiction, but more than anything it is a political book in a science fiction setting. You'd recognize a lot of parallels to today's society. It was written during Thatcher's regime (the LORDs represent the conservatives.)

@vizard King: Yeah, but did we ever get Osama? Wasn't that the original intention of going into Afghanistan? America has caused problems, especially with Dick and Bush in office. So I suggest that the conservative party falls into disgrace. But I hope the liberals don't get stupid, which is why I like Hillary (she's the most conservative of the democratic candidates.)

On topic:

1- Bad idea. That's what Germany was ordered to do after it lost the first world war, and exactly that instigated the second one. US should resolve to do something else, because otherwise the economy will fall into depression until another dictator comes along.

2- I agree, we should refocus our troopss iinto Africa and especially Darfur. We could change from instigating a civil war to preventing people from dying every day in Darfur.

3- I kinda disagree here. What if the group being deported is a family that are too poor and also are well distinguished in their neighborhood? You can't make an absolute on immigration, because people cannot work on an absolute.

4- Not my area of interest really, but I'm not sure.

And also, it's not the sheer amount of illegal immigrants that is the problem. It's the american way regarding them. They have no way to gain a passport, so they will remain illegal immigrants. They also have far less to lose. Because Americans can hire them for cheap is why in America there is such a loss of jobs. Because American buisinesses can hire them as slaves.

Cheapness is America's greatest enemy right now. That and George Bush.

6-7 - I believe we should move to hybrids while trying to find new solutions for driving. In the mean time, things will have to change. I see that in the ffuuture only the rich will have cars. People would learn other methods of transportation.

8 - I disagree, because what is the compromise? We can't just let them starve!

9- I do not see really an issue with this. It would limit spies, but they'd still go. It's a good idea.

10- I don't get it ;^^

Oh, and I'd like to add another thing. "Remove 'No Child Left Untortured'." My generation shouldn't have to suffer through this madness. It's just disgusting.

[aznxenocide]

Right. What are we going to do for oil in the week's time that it's filling up in storage? And...he wants us to apologize for interfering in Europe during WWII? How exactly does he propose we deport the illegal aliens? I mean...it's not like they go around with signs...unless he plans to try racial profiling. Remember what happened with the Japanese in America in WWII?

[Vizard_King]

Good point, Azn. But it well be somewhat easier that the Japanese in WW2, because most Illegals speak little or no English.
And I think he was jokeing about apoligizing.

[Manna23]

Isn't it a shame? So many currupt evil leaders all over the world... we could make so many lives easier... save so many people... have an alliance of leaders working together to proportionally give what they can to help each other, and once that's done... who knows what step 2 would be once the world is acting as 1... instead of 100s of different bodies of government making weapons ._.

It really is a shame, I've always thought that we as humans merely complicate our lives further by petty little things. And in the process make life harder for others as well. The first step towards world peace is to help other countries in need, and to keep it by desroying nearly all warheads in our country's storage.

My replys to the plan

1. I disagree for the most part, because had the States not interfered in say, WW2, then the world would probably very different today.
2. I agree, but only to an extent. If it were to be done, it should be done slowly, depending on the security that the country posses.
3. I don't agree--most of those people came to America to start a new life or improve it for their children. Besides, it's our own fault that they're illegal, it really is hard for them to get citizenship.
4. It depends on how special the permit to stay is supposed to be. Furthermore, it's not a persons fault where they come from; I think that those from terrorist nations should be investigated more than from a non-terrorist country. Due to obvious reasons.
5. I disagree, I think anyone should be allowed to stay here. Assuming that they aren't a threat.
6-7. I agree, oil is finite resource, it won't be here forever.
8. I disagreee, because as earthforge said, we can't just let them starve. I think that we need to focus on the help getting to those who need it, not those who profit from it.
9. I really don't see a problem with the UN having headquaters here.
10. :p I disagree, though I think that American's need to solve their obesity problems. I hate it when we're called obese, it's been grating on me for years.

[Orihime-Chan]

*facepalm* tsk tsk tsk, yet another movie star talking about political affairs! *shakes head* Robin, sweetie, keep your creative brain cells in your acting business, your latest movies really suck!

But to indulge you, that plan of yours is gonna be really hard. How many apologizes are you gonna give?

1- Apologize to the Native Americans whom you erased.
2- Apologize to the Japanese for throwing two nuclear bombs on them for a test AFTER they surrendered.
3- Apologize to the Cambodians who have been bombed with no reason.
4- Apologize to the Palestinians who are under siege.
5- Apologize to the Kurd for giving Saddam chemical weapons to annihilate them.
6- Apologize to the Filipinos for supporting Marcos.
7- Apologize to the Indonesians for supporting Soeharto who killed half a million Indonesians just for the heck of it.
8- Apologize to Mother Nature for not signing the global warming treaty.

And that's just a tip of a peak!

Your dollar is falling down, your army is in a miserable condition, AND you're thinking of invading Iran WTF!!

Here's a nice solution for ya; get your army out and next time don't create tyrants in our countries and aid them with crazy weapons so you don't have to clean up the mess later on when they turn on you ;)

[Bleu]

As a non-american, i think that the united states should leave the other countries alone. stop invading on their culture, and let them be.

alot of you might not agree, but I believe that as lng as the United States keeps interfering, there will be no chance for peace. If other countries sent their troops into the United States and stationed them in all the major cities, do you think that they would let them do that? No. The other countries rely have been more than generous about this.

Right now, for the US to take out all of their troops, it would take over 10 years. its not just a matter of all the troops, but also all of the suplies that were brought over to Iraq...They just cant really let them stay there.

My Plan for peace:
- Even if it takes 10 years, just get out of Iraq now, and back out of all other countries. Accept "defeat" and just back down. This war was to show Bush Sr. That little Doubya could be good too. x_x

-The United States should start digging into their own oil refineries instead of relying solely on forein barrels. They should also try to settle their debts with China.

- More needs to be done about greenhouse gases and helping clean the air. Recycling should be strongly encouraged, and we should all try to develop earth-friendly alternitives. We should by cars that are more earth-friendly, even if it is 5000 or 10000 dollars more.. cars that run on electircity and gas is alsoa good step instead of going to sole hybrid.. i believe chevy has a line of cars like this. Luxery cars like lexus, mercedes, also have some models of hybrids for you label-brand people. I would also STRONGLY encourage carpooling. In large cities i believe that taxies should be cut down, and buses should be in their place. if not, then make the taxies hybrids.

x_x i honestly think that the fall of the united states is going to happen in the next 100 years, or even the next 50.i could compare it to the mssive roman rule, the british rule, ect..ect..

things also need to be done about habeas corpus in the united states, as they are taking advantage of this lain guantanmo bay and other places.

when you were a kid i bet you were often told to "mind your own beeswax" or "MYOB".. Well, think about it, when you were a kid and you got into anher kids affairs, it only made more trouble right? well this also goes with other countries interfering with one another. I say, we mind their buisness, but we can exchange our lunches happily, if you get what i mean, and things should be better.

[earthforge]

Yay for Bleu's plan for peace!

Heheh. To qoute from the best comedian of all time, "I don't hate America. I just hate Americans."

1) I agree. We need to get the hell out of there. All we did was enforce a civil war. Saddam was able to keep the factions from tearing each other apart. We ran into their without a plan and knocked down the support (Saddam.)

2) US will not dig their own refineries. Why? Because as we have all of the fools and morons who support Bush, they also "feel" that we shouldn't dirty our resources. It's a really f*ed up concept, but America is f*ed up.

3) I think hybrids are a nice step down from gas. But a rather annoying thing is that they are pricey. Personally, I'm waiting for the Tesla Roadster (it uses a Tesla coil to move. How cool is that.?) So electric isn't the only solution. Besides, given how many storms hit my area last weekend and made the power go out, I don't think people would trust electricity.

I just hope we get our head out of our asses before we fall. It's just such a decadent society. And until the rich are threatened by a conservative crazy policy, it will go on. It made Thatcherism and the Roman empire fall before. But America still doesn't get it through it's support of Obama (if anyone posts in the political thread, I'll explain my reasoning.)

I have not gone out of the country, so I'm pretty clueless on your other viewpoints.

[ookami]

Earthforge speaks my languge. I hate americans. The means they go by to get peace are long, complicated and pointless. when there are such simple ways like the war in Iraq Bush contiuously says we are fighting against terrorism pointing out that 9/11 was acctually provoked E.G. Bush said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that he was planning to invade it was provoked.

Watch this short clip

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7330000/newsid_7330600/7330674.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&asb=1&news=1&bbcws=1

"As you bomb you will be bombed" is the part I wanted to highlight all of the suicide bomber attacks are provoked by the US and UK invading afaganistan, Iraq, palistine ECT.

[IngenuityGap]

I am honestly flabergasted at some of the views in this thread. I've got no civil response to conspiracy theories and misplaced blame.


I agree with Williams. Next time the democratic world gets in trouble ala WWII, North American troops should stay home. Let the dictators have complete free reign. Allow any repressive ideology to flourish.


But, of course, then we'll be blamed for allowing it to happen.

Edit- Screw it, I'm going to give my best in the following responses.

The U.S. has always been in Manifest Destiny mode since they declared their independence from Britain.
A need to Christianize and "civilize" non-white nations.

Just read "The White Man's Burden" by Rudyard Kipling and that pretty much sums up American foreign policy. (Scary factoid: That poem was actually written during the time of the Philippine-American War, considered to be the first Vietnam when the U.S. brutally occupied a territory for their own imperialist means)

I think the U.S. needs to shut down its bases in other countries. I have read and witnessed with my own eyes the consequences of having an American military presence in a foreign country (Philippines). And the U.S. definitely needs to stop intervening in other countries' matters and putting their own dictators in place of democratically-elected native leaders. It was wrong for the U.S. to occupy Iraq to begin with, and now we're paying the price. This type of imperialist bullshit makes me NOT proud to be an American.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny

You mean the idea that fell out of favour in the early 20th century? The idea that the United States was meant to stretch from the Atlantic to the Pacific on North American land? How does that apply to overseas possessions?

The idea of White Man's Burden was basically abolished by the 1960's when the last of the old empire's overseas colonies were either returned or granted independence. The need to civilize and "christianize" has also fallen into disregard and been replaced with a severe cultural guilt about such actions. Only a small minority of Christian groups still practice this. Fundamentalists, basically.

The occupation of Iraq was and is wrong, I completely agree. The attention should have been focused on Afghanistan which, only three years ago, had a total presence of 10 000 troops. Not even a tenth of the Iraq deployment. Sticking with Afghanistan would also have prevented the massive influx of foreign terrorists into Iraq and forced them to fight on their training grounds.

[Inevitable.Exit]

As a non-american, i think that the united states should leave the other countries alone. stop invading on their culture, and let them be. Just as terrorists should let us live our lives as "infidels" right? Please.

alot of you might not agree, but I believe that as lng as the United States keeps interfering, there will be no chance for peace. If other countries sent their troops into the United States and stationed them in all the major cities, do you think that they would let them do that? No. The other countries rely have been more than generous about this. First, Keeps interfering? Interfering with what? The war in the Middle East was a mistake, yes...but I don't get where you are getting this "Keeps interfering" thing. As THE most powerful country in the world (put your bias aside and accept it) we are in a situation where we are damned if we do, damned it we don't. There will never be peace in the Middle East. Or the world for that matter. A cynical view? Yes, but one that has been proven time and time again throughout history. Other countries? You mean the countries that we have ESTABLISHED bases in? News flash, all those SOVEREIGN countries' governments clearly want us there, if not we would not and could not be there as it would be a sign of occupation and ultimately war. They aren't being generous they want us there.

Right now, for the US to take out all of their troops, it would take over 10 years. its not just a matter of all the troops, but also all of the suplies that were brought over to Iraq...They just cant really let them stay there. Wrong.

- Even if it takes 10 years, just get out of Iraq now, and back out of all other countries. Accept "defeat" and just back down. This war was to show Bush Sr. That little Doubya could be good too. x_x While I will agree that this war in some ways was a personal vendetta or for personal gains, I fail to see how this is a defeat. Technically we have overthrown the old regime put a (fragile)government in place, held a free election. We could leave and say "WIN". As for backing out of all other countries, see above.

-The United States should start digging into their own oil refineries instead of relying solely on forein barrels. They should also try to settle their debts with China. Thats the thing, we don't have a large enough supply of oil to sustain our country. Our debts with China? Ya sure, maybe when they stop giving us toys laced with lead, dog food that kills our pets and medicine that does not cause people to die. Maybe until then we should stop supplying China with a large amount of the food they use to feed their people? Please.

- More needs to be done about greenhouse gases and helping clean the air. Recycling should be strongly encouraged, and we should all try to develop earth-friendly alternitives. We should by cars that are more earth-friendly, even if it is 5000 or 10000 dollars more.. cars that run on electircity and gas is alsoa good step instead of going to sole hybrid.. i believe chevy has a line of cars like this. Luxery cars like lexus, mercedes, also have some models of hybrids for you label-brand people. I would also STRONGLY encourage carpooling. In large cities i believe that taxies should be cut down, and buses should be in their place. if not, then make the taxies hybrids. What does this have to do with peace?

x_x i honestly think that the fall of the united states is going to happen in the next 100 years, or even the next 50.i could compare it to the mssive roman rule, the british rule, ect..ect.. Yes, because the United States is a massive empire spanding across countless miles whilst being run by a Monarchy with illiterate, uneducated people who have no source of seeing what is going on (news). Please. We might cease being THE most powerful country in the world, but the fall of the United States? I don't think you really understand what happens if the United States completely fell apart. At all.

things also need to be done about habeas corpus in the united states, as they are taking advantage of this lain guantanmo bay and other places. Ya we are the only country doing this.

when you were a kid i bet you were often told to "mind your own beeswax" or "MYOB".. Well, think about it, when you were a kid and you got into anher kids affairs, it only made more trouble right? well this also goes with other countries interfering with one another. I say, we mind their buisness, but we can exchange our lunches happily, if you get what i mean, and things should be better. When said country trains, funds and plans an attack on your country that takes 3,000+ civilian lives, come back and talk to me.

This was a horrible attempt filled with nothing but anti-american ideals. You, as a non-american, assume that all Americans are war mongering, arrogant bastards who want to take over the world, and you disgust me.

Earthforge speaks my languge. I hate americans. The means they go by to get peace are long, complicated and pointless. when there are such simple ways like the war in Iraq Bush contiuously says we are fighting against terrorism pointing out that 9/11 was acctually provoked E.G. Bush said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that he was planning to invade it was provoked.Why do you hate Americans? Do you hate EVERY American? Have you met EVERY American? Or are you going off of assumptions? I believe the latter. Uhhh WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? 9/11 happened years before we even talked about Iraq. How was 9/11 provoked? You realize we put the Taliban in place to combat Russia's expanse to take over Afghanistan? I'm not in favor of the war at all, or wars in general unless necessary, but you sir, are talking out of your ass.

[Shdo]

just that you forget the little thing called global economy and nukes.
you dont want some dictator starting to knock down the western world, and you cant fool yourself that there wont be any negetive effect on america.

[IngenuityGap]

@Luhy: I agree. But Margaret Thatcher and Reagen began that trend (one of my favourite Thatcher quotes: "the world with nuclear weapons is safer.")

@beautiful death: I feel the same way. You might like to read Escape Velocity by Christopher Stasheff. It is considered science fiction, but more than anything it is a political book in a science fiction setting. You'd recognize a lot of parallels to today's society. It was written during Thatcher's regime (the LORDs represent the conservatives.)

@vizard King: Yeah, but did we ever get Osama? Wasn't that the original intention of going into Afghanistan? America has caused problems, especially with Dick and Bush in office. So I suggest that the conservative party falls into disgrace. But I hope the liberals don't get stupid, which is why I like Hillary (she's the most conservative of the democratic candidates.)


I don't understand the severe conservative hate. You're demonizing them pretty badly.

As for Hillary, she's the most likely to flip a decision for political gain. And has made some severe blunders by not thinking about what she says. That doesn't strike me as an intelligent approach.

On topic:

1- Bad idea. That's what Germany was ordered to do after it lost the first world war, and exactly that instigated the second one. US should resolve to do something else, because otherwise the economy will fall into depression until another dictator comes along.


This is a far different situation that Germany post WWI. They were forced into heavy reparation payments and the value of the deutchmark fell sharply. Kind of like the inflation seen in Zimbabwe today. This allowed Germany to fall prey to heavy Nationalistic rhetoric and believing in scapegoats (Jews, gypsies, commies, foreigners) for their problems.

The current American economy has many, many focuses and the dollar isn't severely devalued despite the credit crisis.


2- I agree, we should refocus our troopss iinto Africa and especially Darfur. We could change from instigating a civil war to preventing people from dying every day in Darfur.


The UN and NATO were told they were not welcome in Darfur and any interference would be viewed as an invasion of their soverignty. So, as nice as it sounds to shift the focus there, it is not something that would have a positive affect on the area.

However, the AU troops are allowed in the area and with better structuring they can hold the peace. As they are now, it's just more battles.


3- I kinda disagree here. What if the group being deported is a family that are too poor and also are well distinguished in their neighborhood? You can't make an absolute on immigration, because people cannot work on an absolute.


The more illegals present the greater the drain on all resources. Everything from insurance rates, to labour costs, to housing rates, to municipal taxes can and are affected. It's too bad that there are situations like this, but then legal application should have been sought. Illegal entry to any country is wrong.


4- Not my area of interest really, but I'm not sure.

And also, it's not the sheer amount of illegal immigrants that is the problem. It's the american way regarding them. They have no way to gain a passport, so they will remain illegal immigrants. They also have far less to lose. Because Americans can hire them for cheap is why in America there is such a loss of jobs. Because American buisinesses can hire them as slaves.

Cheapness is America's greatest enemy right now. That and George Bush.


Um, any country makes you gain a passport or work visa for legal entry. These countries are allowed to set their standards for these passports and visas. Japan, as an example, has a much stricter immigration system than anything in the Western world.

And, yes, the attitude of hiring illegals for cheap is part of whats preventing any action taken against them. There are many industries in the south west that rely on the cheap labour you get from illegal immigration. A strong example of this is the strawberry industry of Southern California. The book "Reefer Madness" has an excellent section on them.


6-7 - I believe we should move to hybrids while trying to find new solutions for driving. In the mean time, things will have to change. I see that in the ffuuture only the rich will have cars. People would learn other methods of transportation.


Hybrids use more energy for the same process that gas based cars do. This electricity has to come from somewhere and it is more costly to generate at this time. However, that doesn't mean hybrids aren't a valid way to go, just that more work needs to be put into them. Research dollars are needed.


The idea of drilling for oil in the north is a good one, as is exploiting the vast oil resources found in Alberta. Home grown solutions are better than foreign oil.


8 - I disagree, because what is the compromise? We can't just let them starve!


Either we are the police of the world or we aren't. Allow the countries who want us out so bad to band together and develop solutions.

[ookami]

Well no I don't hate every American just the majority because it is the majority that votes for the idiot leaders such as George. W. Bush. Its America that kicks up a fuss In my opion it America thats the problem "weapons of mass destruction" yeah they put a guy who hullucinates about weapons of mass destruction indifferent counties he should be in a mental hospital. Oh and The weapons of mass destruction stuff was before 9/11 true it was religous extreamists that were only part of the country that flew the planes but saying that a country is threatening the whole world with weapons of mass destruction. I find it sick that the last reason The US wanted to invade was beacause saddam was killing people . To them it was lowest priority. I know for a fact that the Iraqie soldiers that are training with us brits now will not be ready to take controll for another 5 years I mean as a cadet I'm more of a proffesional killer than a unit of them. But atleast we bitish are trying to restore the order instead of claiming friendly fire. The US managed to kill my Colour sergent but he was more like a mentor to me. They could not see bright orange and black nato signs even though you can see them on their plane and head cams its stupid.

[Inevitable.Exit]

Well no I don't hate every American just the majority because it is the majority that votes for the idiot leaders such as George. W. Bush. Its America that kicks up a fuss In my opion it America thats the problem "weapons of mass destruction" yeah they put a guy who hullucinates about weapons of mass destruction indifferent counties he should be in a mental hospital.This isn't the type of thread to give you a rundown of WHY Bush was elected twice, but once people could argue to means by which he won and could yell CORRUPTION, and the second people were still riding a wave of Patriotism. America kicks up a fuss? I'm not sure what foreign countries are learning about the United States in their school systems. A fuss? Ok the issues in the middle-east fair enough. Kosovo? Sorry for stopping Genocide. 1st Persian Gulf War, Sorry for stopping hostile takeover? Vietnam? I wasn't alive and personally don't agree with this war. But who likes communism ?! Korea? They asked for our help. WWII? Nope not us. WWI? Nope not us. What fuss bro?

Either way, people need to stop accusing the USA of being the major deterrent of peace in the world, when I would say the US has been a major role in keeping more peace than shattering it.

Either way, THERE IS NO PLAN FOR PEACE. Look at history. Look at the nature of man. Look at the looming loss of resources. It is impossible. And definitely not happening in any of our lifetimes.

[ookami]

The british army are alway trained to be the best that why we do the best thats why we are the best. I have Come from generations of soldiers my own grandfather was in the S.A.S. I can proberblys live up to that and on the other side of my family are polititions now we have always done our best to plan and keep the peace wether it involves a rifle or pen and paper. There are lots of different ways to plan peace but a lot of the time and the most popular option is the bullet. But we can't us the bullet with out pen and paper e.g. the queens signature.

[LUV]

:lmao Luhy, what the hell did you start...

kk

Well, Robin should really shut the hell up and keep on making his dumb movies...

I really don't understand why so many ppl have this anti-amecan thing going, I mean, yes, America can be nosy, and yes, the war is really STUPID, but still, no matter what, America has always been there to try and help every country. If America just sat back and relaxed while the whole World was getting fuc*** over by some other idiot, then I bet all of those anti-americans would be asking for america to help. No matter what America does, the World is watching, and all they know how to do is criticize, so in my opinion, sure, lets keep out of their business, but lets also stop helping them when a natural disaster happens, when a terrorist decides to pay them a visit, when a dictator decides he is ready to take over, I would love to see how much they hate Americans then.

Its dumb, America, whether ppl like it or not, is the most powerful COUNTRY in the WORLD. If America was to fall from grace, guess what, the WHOLE World would come down with it. Other countries depend on the U.S. just as much as we depend on them.

I hope that those ppl who hate Americans realize that, yeah, we elected George Bush, but we have a DEMOCRACY, so, we gotta suck it up, not the whole country is for this WAR, most of it is against it, but still, we have to stand behind our leaders, or else the World will see us as weak, and America is not WEAK....we rock:yell

To end all this blah blah blah

When Robin is an actual politician and actually has to deal with all this crap that goes on around the World, then I will be the first one to listen to his idiotic plans and all, until then, he should keep his damn mouth shut, and be grateful that he lives in a country with freedom of speech, cause God knows I would shoot him if we lived anywhere else...

[Inevitable.Exit]

The british army are alway trained to be the best that why we do the best thats why we are the best. I have Come from generations of soldiers my own grandfather was in the S.A.S. I can proberblys live up to that and on the other side of my family are polititions now we have always done our best to plan and keep the peace wether it involves a rifle or pen and paper. There are lots of different ways to plan peace but a lot of the time and the most popular option is the bullet. But we can't us the bullet with out pen and paper e.g. the queens signature.Its good to hear you come from a line of soldiers. Definitely the most brave and patriotic of us all. Not sure where you were going with this post but I can agree that a lot of nations are soon to go to violence. I firmly believe that almost everything can be solved through discussion.

[earthforge]

Ingenuity: I'll respond when I have the time. I have to write a 5 page english paper in a day, so that'll keep me occupied.

Inevitable: In the past, yes. But we're not that America anymore. People, unlike in WWII, do not want to help the war effort for example. They just want to make sure they can survive. Part of that survival in America rests on being highly regarded, and how highly regarded you are is connected to your wealth.

I have yet to post a thread that has my rant about Americans. We used to be a world power and worthy of the title. Now we act like a third-world country that holds onto a title it used to have.

You know why I hate Americans? They voted Bush ion. They vote Obama in. They vote the extremes in. You don't blame the leaders for this. The people are supposedly educated and know what they're doing. Yet they make the stupidest decisions. They never think through their decisions. Some even just chose the ideology that they like.

Is that what are presidency is TRULY about? America has degenerated and will continue to.

It's not about what America has done. In the immediate, Americans are acting pig ignorant and greedy. I just wish something would change it. But it will be a long time. This isn't the America which fought against Germany or landed a man on the moon. This is the America which is involved into consumer conservativism, a rather catalytic combination.

[Inevitable.Exit]

Inevitable: In the past, yes. But we're not that America anymore. People, unlike in WWII, do not want to help the war effort for example. They just want to make sure they can survive. Part of that survival in America rests on being highly regarded, and how highly regarded you are is connected to your wealth. You say we but then refer to Americans in 3rd person. Are you American or not? I'm actually not even sure what you're talking about here TBH.

I have yet to post a thread that has my rant about Americans. We used to be a world power and worthy of the title. Now we act like a third-world country that holds onto a title it used to have. We still are a world power. Worthy of the title is an opinion. Its highly subjective and will, has and will always continue to change. People hate us today, but as soon as something happens and they want/need our help they will like us again. We are the leading country in the world, if we weren't people would not be as focused on us as they are. Acting like a third-world country? How? Maybe you should go ahead and make this thread so you can try and explain that one?

You know why I hate Americans? They voted Bush ion. They vote Obama in. They vote the extremes in. You don't blame the leaders for this. The people are supposedly educated and know what they're doing. Yet they make the stupidest decisions. They never think through their decisions. Some even just chose the ideology that they like. Do you know why Bush was voted in twice? Probably not. Or you fail to comprehend the rationale of people. The first time mind you was highly scrutinized and possibly corrupt. Obama hasn't been voted in. And he is not extreme, sorry to break that to you. Him and Hillary are rather the same. McCain is extreme. 100 years in Iraq, conflict with Iran. Etc? Try again? Not all Americans are educated as much as you think. They never think through their decisions? You're rambling with no factual evidence to back it up. People vote on the ideology they like..uh yes? Doesn't everyone vote for something they agree/identify with?

Is that what are presidency is TRULY about? America has degenerated and will continue to. What are you talking about?

It's not about what America has done. In the immediate, Americans are acting pig ignorant and greedy. Continue to place everyone in one group please.
I just wish something would change it. But it will be a long time. See November 2008.
This isn't the America which fought against Germany or landed a man on the moon.Wrong.
This is the America which is involved into consumer conservativism, a rather catalytic combination.Consumer conservativism? So you mean people who buy things that don't like to spend money? You're not making sense.

I also think you don't realize the conservative rich rule this country and are a large reason things are the way they are. Capitalism is a monster. Especially when unchecked.

[IngenuityGap]

Do you know why Bush was voted in twice? Probably not. Or you fail to comprehend the rationale of people. The first time mind you was highly scrutinized and possibly corrupt. Obama hasn't been voted in. And he is not extreme, sorry to break that to you. Him and Hillary are rather the same. McCain is extreme. 100 years in Iraq, conflict with Iran. Etc? Try again? Not all Americans are educated as much as you think. They never think through their decisions? You're rambling with no factual evidence to back it up. People vote on the ideology they like..uh yes? Doesn't everyone vote for something they agree/identify with?

McCain's 100 years comment was in reference to the same way we are still in Germany and Japan, as allies and friends not occupiers. Conflict with Iran is quite a strong possibility as long as they keep pushing the path for Israel's annihilation.


Hillary and Obama are much more radical in the sense that they will say anything to parley the votes. From Hillary's exaggeration of her time in Bosnia (dodging sniper fire?) to Obama's pretty speeches that promise hope with no substance. The really scary thing from a Canadian perspective is both of these candidates wish to renegotiate NAFTA. We are the largest trading partner of the United States and the largest supplier of energy, why piss that away over a slight promise of votes?

[Inevitable.Exit]

McCain's 100 years comment was in reference to the same way we are still in Germany and Japan, as allies and friends not occupiers. Conflict with Iran is quite a strong possibility as long as they keep pushing the path for Israel's annihilation. Come on bro, everyone knows that isn't how he meant it until he got confronted on it. Germany/Japan DO NOT have radical religious ideals to the point that they were blowing themselves up or causing continuous armed conflict with our troops. It isn't possible there due to the radical Islam belief that we are infidels and they should martyr themselves etc etc.


Hillary and Obama are much more radical in the sense that they will say anything to parley the votes. From Hillary's exaggeration of her time in Bosnia (dodging sniper fire?) to Obama's pretty speeches that promise hope with no substance.The Bosnia thing was stupid and not something worth lying about. But I still don't feel it a big deal. Obama is a blessed speaker, yes he promises hope, but what else do the American people have to believe in after this previous regime has done nothing but shit on us?
The really scary thing from a Canadian perspective is both of these candidates wish to renegotiate NAFTA. We are the largest trading partner of the United States and the largest supplier of energy, why piss that away over a slight promise of votes?Because it needs to be reworked due to the fact that our citizens are suffering due to it. I'm sure we wouldn't leave the Canucks out in the cold ;- )

[Shdo]

Come on bro, everyone knows that isn't how he meant it until he got confronted on it. Germany/Japan DO NOT have radical religious ideals to the point that they were blowing themselves up or causing continuous armed conflict with our troops. It isn't possible there due to the radical Islam belief that we are infidels and they should martyr themselves etc etc.



japan had a fanatical belief in their emperor and germany had her share of nazies, yet things turned well.
the diffrance is also because unlike germany and japan, here you have outsider forces that meddele in the conflict. if iraq was a island somewhere or had really close borders you wouldnt see that much violance.

[IngenuityGap]

No, that was the true intention of how he meant it. The immediate thought is, of course, that we will still be fighting in 100 years. As for Japan not having those extreme beliefs, they were sure present during the WWII conflict. The cult of the emperor lead to many examples of refusing to surrender, inhumane treatment of civilians and POWs, and suicide attacks (kamikaze). Germany, similarly, had the cult of Nazism at it's core. Both of these ideals had to be worked around to really make the two countries valued allies.

The main reason Germany went to our side so quickly was the fear of Communism from the USSR which held half of Germany. Without this the ideals of Nazism and fascism would have been much more difficult to uproot. But, in the end, both of these groups (as well as current insurgents) are in the minority. The loudest, most violent minority. The citizens of a country would rather see peace and prosperity within their cultural framework. This takes time to establish.

But, based on previous conflicts between a more secular Iraq and the heavily Shia Iran it provides that necessary polarizing figure in the area (ala USSR and Germany). This doesn't make it inconceivable that in 20, 30, 40 years Iraq will be a solid ally in the area, it just means there is a lot of years of hard work to put in.


The Bosnia comment alone certainly isn't a big deal, but it is indicative of Hillary's willingness to really stretch the tales for the best result. Past the point that most candidates do, anyway. Most of her record is hype and she's as inexperienced as Obama. As a two term Senator she has no major pieces of legislation brought forward.

Between Hillary and Obama, I would much prefer to see Obama as the Democratic candidate. However I think both are too polarizing and will drive a decent chunk of votes to McCain, who is one of the more moderate Republican choices. You know it's a good sign when the Conservative Christian section opposed a candidate because he won't fall into their pocket.



Anyway, no matter what it'll be very interesting come November. =D

[Inevitable.Exit]

japan had a fanatical belief in their emperor and germany had her share of nazies, yet things turned well.
the diffrance is also because unlike germany and japan, here you have outsider forces that meddele in the conflict. if iraq was a island somewhere or had really close borders you wouldnt see that much violance.They might have had fanatical belief in Japan, but after the war they did not continue violence on the troops there to an extent that would be in Iraq. Nazis in Germany weren't in a place to do anything. Things turned out well because the differences are huge . There are many contributing factors as you have noticed. But to think the plan that the Germany, Japan and Korea model would work in Iraq is just outrageous.

[Shdo]

of course it couldn't work, the symptoms are taken care off (fighting terrorists) but nothing is done about the mosques that send them (i am not saying to blow them but pressure on saudi arabia and other places would help to weaken this phenomenon.

also insisting on forcing democracy in the middle east is really bad idea, they should let them stay with dictatorship for a while before trying democracy. sometimes in this area of the world opression of your own people is the best thing you can do to them. sad but this isnt europe.

[IngenuityGap]

of course it couldn't work, the symptoms are taken care off (fighting terrorists) but nothing is done about the mosques that send them (i am not saying to blow them but pressure on saudi arabia and other places would help to weaken this phenomenon.

also insisting on forcing democracy in the middle east is really bad idea, they should let them stay with dictatorship for a while before trying democracy. sometimes in this area of the world opression of your own people is the best thing you can do to them. sad but this isnt europe.

Ding, ding, ding! Exactly, the idea of a Western Democracy being established just because a dictator has been overthrown has always struck me as foolish. Each culture needs to adapt in their own way (France did it differently than the UK which was different than the US, which was different than Israel, etc). Sooner or later educated citizens and those that have family elsewhere or have traveled elsewhere wish for the same types of conveniences and freedoms granted in other countries. A slow build of internal pressure with help as necessary from the international community.

[Shdo]

not to mention that there is no ONE model for a democracy, each country have its own way even if its called democracy. the same system wont work even if you move it from one country to the other. for example in israel there are so many political parties that if you force a way of democracy like america with 2 big parties it will simply wont work. the people like it that there are several parties that are similer but diffrent(3 diffrent arab parties, 2 diffrent green parties, 2 diffrent religios parties and lets not go to the political spectrum).
in the middle east the only democracis and demi-democracies came without outside intervention, and actually its the democracies that are less stable then the dictatorships!

[earthforge]

Inevitable:

LOL. I am an American. I am proud of the heritage of the US. What I am not proud of are the stupid decisions and people within it's boundaries.

We are only still a leading country because of our previous momentum. And you are right, it is a highly subjective definition. I say America is unworthy of the title because it doesn't use it to help Darfur for example. It's just muscle-flexing to the other nations. If we really were acting as we say we are, America would be much more stable and it would be lending charity to Africa a lot more.

But what the hell are we doing? Everything wrong. We're just struggling to keep our power in the world since we are losing momentum.

Second time. How can you explain that if it was all corrupt? You infuriate me, because you ignore that it was the American people who wanted a "war" president. You blame the instances all on Bush, but half of it is half of America's damned fault. Hell, that half is voting for Obama now. And Obama is the left's dream. Look at his policies. They are highly leftist. The left also has a tradition of cutting the space program. Guess what's on his policy? Finally, what better way to prove he's extreme left then his wonderful elitist comment. Read my posts in the politics thread and argue there.

Not really. McCain is actually the most centrist conservative candidate in this election. Compared to Huckabee and Romney, he is the centrist man of the right. I believe Hillary is far more so.

Uh-huh. So even though we have great education systems, we are not educated. There is a surge in university applications right now. More and more people are becoming educated. Compared to Africa, America has a beautiful education system that actually works (though it's being sadly neglected.)

And the problem with going with an ideology is not there?! Think! With the gift of rationalization, I can figure out that the thing that I identify with in a potential leader of a country does NOT matter. It never should. It is the policies and methods I look for in presidents. But since people are so invested in their private ideologies, it is impossible for a candidate based on methods and policies to get elected. They have to provide the most appealing ideology in order to get elected.

People complain that this election is not focused on political issues, and they're right. It's because the candidates have realized the only way they can win the populace over is by presenting ideologies. This has been most difficult for Clinton, because she is most solidly based off of policies and the transition is harder. It is easiest for Obama because he has no policies that make sense (and the few that do are actually taken from Clinton) and is based solidly on ideology.

Heh. Because of that, you can probably call me an "average white woman". Tch, damn misogyny.

And McCain doesn't have a problem because the right's embarasssed by Bush.

Fine, great majority. Most of America has invested in this ideal.

But I noticed a lot of people whining about generallizing. It's probably because there are so many people who want to believe that they aren't a sheep following the herd yet they are and are in denial. The neo-con in my gothic novel class responded to that analogy with "some of us are wolves", but that's slightly different and at the base the same as the previous denial. It is a delusion people are in, believing that they are something else. It's fine to a point. That's what entertainment is for. America is in a mass delusion now.

Few people realize and can think clearly. If I use the sheep analogy, I call myself the sheep that is intelligent enough not to follow the herd. I learned it at a young age.

God damnit. Would you stop misinterpreting me? I was mentioning I want to see a real change, not a fake imaginary change like Obama. And that change will not step out and call itself out. That change will have to be real. And I at a point wish for it to occur. But Americans cannot even think that far. Only in the immediate terms. As an academic, it just aggravates me how people can no longer determine what's a facade and what's not.

No, it is not the America that had that dignity. It's not the America I read about. Have we helped Darfur? No. Have we helped other nations? No. We caused a civil war to break out in Iraq early. We leave innocent children to starve in Sudan. Where is the sensibility and dignity in that?

And the worst thing is, the people still do not realize it. Fine. The Germans didn't realize it. It was labeled as a passing phase. But to quote from Judgement at Nuremberg, "what was once a passing phase became a way of life." The Germans are wary of faschism for this reason.

Conservative is also republican like liberal and democrat. And no, it's not bad capitalism. Capitalism can work if the system can maintain moral stability. But we have become a highly republican country. It is the republican side, as observed in prior elections by Micheal Warby, that uses ideology to get viewers. Now it's everyone, republican or democrat.

Disclaimer: Those that see "Think!" as an insult might need some bubble-wrap. My Grandfather has the same issue.

Inevitable: On your second post, because it was begging me to respond.

And that's what Obama's preying on. Your fear of republicans. He just uses fear culture to lead you down the primrose path. This is why you have to think about your candidate's policies and methods first, so you do not get caught up in ideology, which is a highly republican thing. Irony, my friend.

Reply to me in the political thread.