Why is Orihime Just Standing There?

[debbiechan]

From Frosted Heart:


Chill out people, let's not detract the thread any further. If you want to discuss Inoue's actions, please start another thread or take it to PMs/IMs/emails.

- FH

At the risk of starting a war here, I really do want to speculate as to why Orihime is just standing there. This arc is, after all, emphatically about her character development and so far we haven't seen any.

Kubo's shown us his farsightedness before and there were two vows he gave the characters Ichigo and Orihime way before HM. Ichigo vowed to protect Orihime and Orihime vowed that the next time she met again with Ichigo, she would be able to defend herself and not have to rely on him. Ichigo was true to his word--the boy just saved Orihime from a cero. Orihime? Kubo is intentionallly keeping the limits of her powers mysterious--I find this more frustrating that the never-ending Szayeru fight.

There are some of you who say she has a narrative purpose in standing there; others who think she's demonstrating a character flaw (as in the person she is has faults, not that the person Kubo intended her to be isn't being presented consistently).

Orihime is my favorite character to talk about because I do believe that in a story that's about a coming-of-age for all the young characters, Orihime was the one who most obviously showed how she needed to grow--from way back in SS when she felt useless on the roof with Ishida. She lacks self-confidence and an inability to understand her powers (remember her expression when Hutch told her that they were all about "believing"?). In a shounen, when the boy finds out what he's been afraid of and gets more confidence in himself, there are fireworks and zaggety lines and huge displays of power.

I can't predict what Orihime will do, but I do know that the narrative requires her character to change. Personally, I do feel that standing there she makes herself a liability to Ichigo. The only reason I can see for her standing there and not making a run for it is that she hopes to heal Ichigo if he's wounded.
She's obviously trembling and afraid too--so he fears that Ichigo may be wounded beyond repair or just enough that he can't defend her against being recaptured by Grimmjow.

Orihime's confused. Since when has she not been confused? Her character was introduced that way--a likable girl (well, I like her at least) who seemed one step away from reality. She's been exposed to some hard truths in HM and while I never expected them to change her essential self, I did (and still do) expect her to grow--emotionally and power-wise.

I think Orihime is profoundly interesting--she's a little different from your average shojou maiden and she's not the average secondary girl character in a shounen either. The story seems to be as much about her as it seems to be about Rukia and Ichigo at this point (other characters may discover things about themselves later, but Kubo hasn't hit us over the head with their crisises like he has with Rukia, Ichigo, and Orihime).

Is she believably flawed, immensely unlikable, has Kubo failed in making his audience like her or has he succeeded in showing us a person who does some incomprehensible things? Like some of you, I can't believe Orihime is just standing there. Like others, I also believe that there may be reasons why she's standing there and that it's not a boil of a character flaw. Ichigo, Ishida--the young male characters all had their worst selves shown to us by Kubo and they are growing. Why not Orihime.

I think if Orihime actually knew that she was prioritizing Kurosaki-kun's life over her other friends (staying to heal Ichigo instead of running to try to heal others who are already near death), she would be sick about it.

I don't think she's thinking. And that, I believe is her flaw at the moment. Not refusing to act.

[Saffire]

Good, I don't have to continue the hijacking of the chapter thread over this.

I don't get how Orihime can be criticized in this situation. She's human. She can't run at supersonic speeds, block swords with her hands, or get sliced in half and shrug it off. She's probably at the safest place in Hueco Mundo right now, honestly, because the people present might actually defend her if someone else appeared. If she took off right now, she'd simply be recaptured by the first Arrancar she ran into. Besides, she's outside right now, can't run or jump to get back inside, and would have to potentially run into a fight between two superpowers to get to the building. Yeah, right.

As for her fairies, they worked in Soul Society because there's no ceilings. The fairies could run wherever they wanted, allowing them to search a wide area pretty quickly. Here, they'd have to contend with maze-like hallways and Arrancar around every corner. If one of them got caught and killed, it'd be worse than the Tsubaki incident. Her powers would be permanently crippled because she'd never be able to recover that fairy unless they somehow managed to find the pieces. Plus, what happens if Ichigo needs recovered again? She has to think Rukia and Chad are dead at this point, and Ichigo's fighting right in front of her. If her fairies are lost somewhere in Las Noches and Ichigo's dying, then she can't save anybody. It makes far more sense to wait for Ichigo to win (since she believes he will) and then go off together to find everyone. Sending her fairies off in random directions and hoping for the best would be the worst thing she could possibly do.

I won't even go into the psychological aspects, but I strongly suspect that if she's thinking at all, she's thinking, "I don't want to lose anyone else, I can at least save someone that's right in front of me". I really don't understand why anyone thinks she should take any other action.

[Syn]

Inoue is a rather simple character to me. She has several traits that define her:
-she lives in a fairytale (up until ch232 at least). That is where her powers come from - negating the reality because the reality is too harsh for her to swallow.
-she's sweet, ditzy, caring and has good grades.
-she's ichigo-centric.
-she hasn't got a clear definition of herself and always uses the others to see how she thinks she should be (her brother, Tatsuki, and Ichigo now - with the last, she's the weakest because her bond with him is very weak - barely friends).
I summed up her character with these four points and I don't think anyone can contradict me on those ones. All her decisions (to fight, to destroy the Hougyoku, to train, to go to SS, to go to HM to be a plant are a result of those points).

Why is she in HM? I believe to change; but not in the way most of us expect her to. GJ had a nasty remark last week; that she was already changing and I believe that he's right. She's being affected by Ulq's psychological trap.

Why does she stand there without doing nothing? I really guess that Kubo needed to show us that Inoue didn't have the faith she used to have in Ichigo. She nows fears for him more than before and she even fears him (if the spoiler is correct). That may be the first effect of her change, I don't know, but I think it's important for her.

However, she doesn't prioritize and the fact that she stands there doing nothing but looking at Ichigo's back is quite annoying (Ichigo has to tell her to use her shield -_-'), especially considering that all her friends don't hesitate to put their lives on the line, that two are dying and the three others are fighting/expecting a fight. They do this for her, but she never thanked them nor moved a finger for them (she thought of going to heal Rukia in 270, but that was brief as she's very moody those past chapters and when she has the occasion, she just let it pass).

The more time pass by, the more I can totally picture her staying in HM and thinking that she freely joined their side (not becoming really evil but forgetting herself as she easily does it - just imagine that she could see herself through Ulq's eyes now... you'll get my point).

Edit: @Saffire: I disagree, she can fight. Tatsuki mentioned that she could be easily black belt karate, and she trained during one month with Rukia. She has super powers. Her shield is pretty strong. And no Arrancar would destroy her fairies - unless they want to get killed by Aizen? They're not that stupid.

[Jasse]

If Orihime was thinking by the logic Saffire has mentioned in his post.

How can we explain her outburst at Rukia's supposed death? She didn't care about being captured that time, she didn't put much thoughts/considerations about the boundaries that her fairies or she can go thru in order to reach Rukia. The only thing that was stopping her is the door. I assume that Kubo wants us to believe that if the door wasn't shut-closed, she would have definitely tried to reach Rukia even if it took her hours or even at the cost of her own safety. It wouldn't matter to her if her actions are logical or not. That was her instinct, and that was Orihime.

Atleast, this is how i felt or interpreted that chapter.

I say the way she acts is a culmination of different reasons, I may not know them fully until this fight ends, Other than Debbie's interpretation or
Jenni's(who have very good points), I believe Kubo deliberately made her watch the fight, see a face of Ichigo that she never saw in her won eyes before(thus the mentioning of her fear in the summary that Annie posted.

I'll reserve my judgments on her for later(after all this is her arc, and she's bound to grow), I agree with those who say that she could do better though.

[debbiechan]

I disagree, she can fight. Tatsuki mentioned that she could be easily black belt karate, and she trained during one month with Rukia. She has super powers. Her shield is pretty strong.

Orihime can fight. This was self-evident, I thought. Orihime looks like a delicate flower but she has offensive skills--or else what's the reason for Tsubaki? Everyone seems to have forgotten that he was "fixed" and that the last two times Orihime launched him, he failed. Third time's the charm, right?:)

Her nature is, though, that she doesn't want to fight. Like Ishida observed long ago, she could make herself a liability. And I do believe that's exactly what she is now. (From the beginning I thought that Aizen might threaten to do something to her to get Ichigo to stay in HM and join his team).

I hadn't thought about her getting back into the building but I can't see in my mind where the big hole and the fighters are respective to one another. Hime can't shunpou, that's for sure, and no one in her right mind would try to pass by GJ and Ichigo but maybe she should've run right when the fight began. That would be good strategizing, actually. (and it's something I hope Renji and Ishida do with Szayel--please oh please, no more of that fight)

Hime's not thinking. I've caught Orihime on more than one error in where she places herself--standing up?
I'm going to be interested to see where she is in this chapter after a cero nearly takes her out. A reasonable onlooker would be crouched low, wouldn't you say?

Orihime feels and she doesn't think. She's very capable of thinking and she proved that in SS with her clever plan involving Shinigami clothes and her remembering to question the guys she'd karate-ed (Ishida didn't think of that). Orihime is far from stupid but her greatest asset, her ability to love and feel, is her greatest hindrance right now. There's no loving yourself into safety in a battle situation.

If Kubo wanted someone to play the damsel in distress role, he wouldn't have given Orhime powers. Powers as great or greater than the other male leads. She would've been solely a healer. But now--she's got Tsubaki. I'm going to keep the faith that the little guy will show up at the right time. Hime can love and forgive all she wants, but she's in Hueco Mundo. You don't survive there without being a little aggressive--no matter how many Ichigos are protecting you.

[Guildenstern]

As to why Orihime is 'just standing there' I think is twofold:

1. She's there because there's something in this scene that Orihime (and by extension us) needs to see.
2. Ichigo is fighting and since she's afraid he might lose and be hurt, she's frightened to leave him.

I can't help but feel that at this juncture in the manga coming hard on the heels of Grimmjow's "Dude, you're here for me, not her" commentary Orihime seeing Ichigo release his Vizored form might be a plot point that needed to be addressed. Orihime needs to see the entire person that Ichigo really is, not just the ideal of "Kurosaki-kun" that she's had a crush on since god-knows-when. She understands him, but does she -know- him? I don't know, maybe Kubo needed her to see this.

Ichigo is not all flowers and baby chicks and "Don't worry, Inoue". She's never seen this from him before, and in order to win, Ichigo is going to really, honestly attempt to kill someone. All this talk from people to Ichigo about him needing a 'killer instinct' to win hasn't been for nothing. He's going to have to take on a little bit of Hollow-tan's power to win this fight, and that means really, really hurting somebody--and no heals afterward for them either. No, you cannot have Raise III. NOT YOURS, GRIMMY.

Here's the part where I say something kind of mean, but true, with the added bonus of some speculation. ._.;;
Orihime, as my friends in high school once told me: "Dude, he's just not that in to you". As of this point in time, if Ichigo realizes Orihime isn't just a really strange guy friend who happens to have tits I assure you it is purely good luck. He's around this beautiful girl with huge knockers with the cutest little nose and the sweetest personality all the time (I love Orihime, she is really cool) and he...just...yeah, there's no connection there. I guess she's just not really his type? I don't know.

The manga's been pretty clear up to this point that he's got 0 interest in her beyond "Inoue is our friend, thanks for the heals, stand back so you don't get splattered and don't worry, I got this one WHAT DO YOU MEAN SHE WENT TO HUECO MUNDO wtf why you do this" so I can only assume this whole thing is part of a big character growth experience for Orihime, which is good because I'm hoping he does a lot more with her character.

Better stop typing this before my roommie sees it and writes an essay about how it's unfeminist to want Orihime to have to 'change and become better' so that Ichigo will notice her and decide to go out with her because she's 'improved' like we've seen championed on so many other message boards.

The be-all to end-all of female characters in manga/books/comics is NOT to end up in the hero's bed at the end, dammit! Emancipate Orihime! You're great the way you are, honey! >_<b

[SiSL]

Not just Orihime, I'm almost sick of everyone standing, watching fight like TV because "IT HAS TO BE 1-ON-1" , "cant interfere", "must not" ... "He is having fun", "It is his fights" and so on quotes...

[Kristen]

What else is Orihime suppose to do? She can't jump in Ichigo's and Grimmjow's fight. Why? Because it's ICHIGO's FIGHT. She can't 'save' Rukia and Chad? Why? There's other Espadas out there. It's pointless trying to save them on her own because another Espada will just block her way or take her back. It's logical.. I think

Just because Aizen claimed that she has the powers that goes against the Gods... doesn't mean that she is GOD. She's human. =/

[Axie]

Guildenstern, I agree with everything you said. <33

Isn't it obvious? She's standing there because it's a personal battle between Ichigo and Grimm. If you were in her shoes... would you jump in and start throwing Tsubaki around? She would only become a burden to Ichigo. She would also end up endangering herself, Tsubaki, and Nell. Orihime supposed to be looking after Nell anyway.

Orihime isn't stupid, she knows that she's not strong enough to even cut Grimmjow.

So the only other choice she has is running away from the battle to go heal Chad and Rukia. That would be stupid too. If she runs away she could be attacked or recaptured by other arrancar/Espada. And not to mention, Noitora is lurking around. XD Scary for 'Hime.

So, I'm guessing she's waiting for Ichigo to finish the battle so that she can heal him afterward, and be protected by him when Orihime goes to heal Rukia and Chad.

:)

[kiriya]

as an orihime fan, i must say that i'm disappointed with her lately, i think she's being a bit inconsistent, she cried when she saw what happened with rukia, i was pretty sure that she would go to heal her once she had the chance, but now..she's just there, doing nothing, being a burden, being protected...again, but however, i read your posts and...

somehow i agree with you guildenstern, i don't think KT is idiot enough to make her act this way if he wants to develop her character, maybe there's something behind all this stuff, orihime needs to realize that kurosaki-kun isn't the sweet, the best, the prince of her dreams, that her friends are risking their lifes because of her, ichigo has changed too, not just talking about power, it's like doldoni said, he has to turn into a demon..and right now, he is in a decisive battle..

If Kubo wanted someone to play the damsel in distress role, he wouldn't have given Orhime powers. Powers as great or greater than the other male leads. She would've been solely a healer. But now--she's got Tsubaki. I'm going to keep the faith that the little guy will show up at the right time. Hime can love and forgive all she wants, but she's in Hueco Mundo. You don't survive there without being a little aggressive--no matter how many Ichigos are protecting you.

I completely agree with you, KT can't be using her as a damsel in distress all the time if she has those freaking God powers, i'm tired enough of seeing her being protected by kurosaki-kun or anyone, she need's to bring out her strength, forget about being so kind and sweet, caring about everyone(even the people that hurts her), and start to value herself, i guess it's just a matter of time (n_nU)

So, I'm guessing she's waiting for Ichigo to finish the battle so that she can heal him afterward, and be protected by him when Orihime goes to heal Rukia and Chad.
sorry, that's the worst option for me, so ichihime, she says she doesn't want to be protected, she doesn't want to be a burden, she will end up being that and worse

[Lucia]

Do you all think Aizen doesn't know GJ let her out by now? C'mon, HM is Aizen's territory. The fact that no other espada has shown up during this fight to take her back, kinda makes one think that maybe Aizen doesn't give a rat's butt what happen to her. Frankly, I think the only reason why she's sticking around and watching the fight is because of Ichigo, and I think there's a reason why Kubo made her stay there and witness the fight. Maybe to show her that Ichigo isn't as perfect as she pictured him to be. Honestly, I'm more interested in how Rukia will react to seeing Vizard Ichigo. We already know how Orihime reacted. Rukia is the only one who hasn't seen Ichigo's vizard form. Perhaps, Kubo is saving it for later.

[Annie]

No one expect Orihime to help Ichigo fight. I, for one don't want to see pantera vs Tsubaki. My only problem with her is her Kurosaki-centric thoughts. Granted that it's logical for her to wait right there until Ichigo finish his fight. I even give her some slack for not knowing Rukia's and Chad's whereabouts. But I can't believe that all her energy are spending on 'believing in Kurosaki kun' but not even one single thought about Rukia. Don't tell me the stiuation is different because Rukia was facing her worst nightmare and yet she knew her priorities. If I have see one single flashback of Rukia from Orihime, I wouldn't be this annoy.

Seriously, she standing there is as risky as she rush to her friends. If Noitora finally arrive at the scene do you think Orihime is any safer? The fact is Ichigo is not with her right by her side (he's fighting) Orihime is still at risk of getting re-capture.

I believe that Orihime has to witness this fight for her character development. But Kubo is doing a poor job to convince many that she needs to be there and witness it.

[SiSL]

My only problem with her is her Kurosaki-centric thoughts. Granted that it's logical for her to wait right there until Ichigo finish his fight.

That makes her ideal housewive. She thinks like fairy tales, stone age. Woman sits at house, Man brings meat to home by fighting.

Princess that is locked into highest tower of dangerous lands, protected by dangerous dragons waiting her prince to come save her. She will love him happily after, do whatever he says etc. etc.

Ridicilous but still she is only a child yet.

On the other hand, take Orihime's mind minuplation is in order. She is already weak by her emotions.

[Dice]

No one expect Orihime to help Ichigo fight. I, for one don't want to see pantera vs Tsubaki. My only problem with her is her Kurosaki-centric thoughts. Granted that it's logical for her to wait right there until Ichigo finish his fight. I even give her some slack for not knowing Rukia's and Chad's whereabouts. But I can't believe that all her energy are spending on 'believing in Kurosaki kun' but not even one single thought about Rukia. Don't tell me the stiuation is different because Rukia was facing her worst nightmare and yet she knew her priorities. If I have see one single flashback of Rukia from Orihime, I wouldn't be this annoy.

Seriously, she standing there is as risky as she rush to her friends. If Noitora finally arrive at the scene do you think Orihime is any safer? The fact is Ichigo is not with her right by her side (he's fighting) Orihime is still at risk of getting re-capture.

I believe that Orihime has to witness this fight for her character development. But Kubo is doing a poor job to convince many that she needs to be there and witness it.

I have to agree with Annie here, you've expresed what I feel.

I don't get it. Wasn't Orihime all "Wait for me, Kurosaki-kun" in chapter 232 before she got captured?" She obviously thought she was strong enough to fight by his side right then and there. She was obviously going to go to his side had Ulquiorra not captured her. She was going to protect him in her mind right there. So how is that situation any different? I'm thoroughly confused how Orihime could believe she could fight with Ichigo against Grimmjow during the second GJ versus Ichigo fight and yet have no thoughts about standing by his side as an equal right now.

Nevertheless, I don't particularly care about Orihime's inconsistency about fighting. Like Annie, I really have no desire to see Tsubaki versus Grimmjow, though I have to say it would be amusing...

The point is she has only worried about Kurosaki-kun and the hypothetical possibilities that he'll get hurt when both Chad and Rukia are lying on the floor bleeding to death. She has spared no thought about Rukia except a brief desire to want to go to her in 270. It's quite cold, when we know Orihime saw exactly what happened to Rukia and how she got speared with Nejibana.

It's also quite cold considering the selfless attitude Rukia has displayed in wanting to save Inoue, showing even more will than Ichigo to save her. Her last thoughts were about her. She was literally crawling on the floor for Orihime's sake, yet Orihime has shown very little reciprocation for saving her friend who is dying.

I wanted Orihime to express some will or desire of saving Rukia and Chad at the very least. Whatever she's supposed to learn from the fight about Ichigo and his character is sacrificing some of Orihime's past vows to help her friends and fight for their sake. She's just looking more and more like a damsel instead of someone with incredible courage and will.

Personally, I'm just confused and have no idea where KT is going with Orihime. I don't know whether I'm supposed to view her behavior positively or negatively, but yet I keep feeling frustrated with her character.

[ezxx]

Well while I do agree she should go and heal/resurrect Chad and Rukia, I think she's not leaving because of one of the two reasons

A. She can heal Ichigo or step in if he's about to die and they can go rescue their friends together. It wouldn't be a good idea to separate because you know what would happen? She gets captured by another espada or random arrancar, except easier than if she sticks by Ichigo. Of course it doesn't guarantee her safety because Ichigo's too busy with the fight

B. Since Ulquiorra saw her, she's pretending to follow orders, which seems rather silly but if Ichigo is defeated and she is captured, she can just say she listened to Grimmjow and not get into trouble or whatever...yeah it's just grasping at straws but it's a possbility.

[kiriya]

The point is the fact that she has only worried about Kurosaki-kun and the hypothetical possisbilities that he'll get hurt when both Chad and Rukia are lying on the floor, bleeding to death. She has spared no thought about Rukia except a brief desire to want to go to her in 270. It's quite cold, when we know Orihime saw exactly what happened to Rukia and how she got speared with Nejibana.

It's also quite cold considering the selfless attitude Rukia has displayed in wanting to save Inoue, showing even more will than Ichigo to save her. Her last thoughts were about her. She was literally crawling on the floor for Orihime's sake, yet Orihime has shown very little reciprocation for saving her friend who is dying.

I wanted Orihime to express some will or desire of saving Rukia and Chad at the very least. Whatever she's supposed to learn from the fight about Ichigo and his character is sacrificing some of Orihime's past vows to help her friends and fight for their sake. She's just looking more and more like a damsel instead of someone with incredibly courage and will.

Personally, I'm just confused and have no idea where KT is going with Orihime. I don't know whether I'm supposed to view her behavior positively or negatively, but yet I keep feeling frustrated with her character.

same here, absolutely, i don't undestand what is KT doing with her, it's frustrating, i like orihime but i can't deny she's being selfish now, rukia showed more will for going to save her than ichigo, at least for me, ichigo was worried about rukia, i guess that's why he hurried the battle, geez =_= i'd like to visit KT and :mad:

[Jasse]

B. Since Ulquiorra saw her, she's pretending to follow orders, which seems rather silly but if Ichigo is defeated and she is captured, she can just say she listened to Grimmjow and not get into trouble or whatever...yeah it's just grasping at straws but it's a possbility.

Actually, this option makes sense to me, When Ulqiuoora first saw her, she was embarrassed and didn't look him in the eye as if she has done something wrong.

[Axie]

sorry, that's the worst option for me, so ichihime, she says she doesn't want to be protected, she doesn't want to be a burden, she will end up being that and worse

Ick. I didn't mean for it to sound Ichihime.. ^^; I just thought it was logical. I don't think she wants to run around Hueco alone. (suicide yes?)

Since Ulquiorra saw her, she's pretending to follow orders, which seems rather silly but if Ichigo is defeated and she is captured, she can just say she listened to Grimmjow and not get into trouble or whatever...yeah it's just grasping at straws but it's a possbility.

That's interesting. But I doubt she cares about getting into trouble with Ulqui, though, it's not like he's allowed to hurt her.

[Jasse]

I would say she cares about what Ulq thinks of her at least, she feels a bit guilty to me in that scene where she avoided eye contact.

[Ros]

Better stop typing this before my roommie sees it and writes an essay about how it's unfeminist to want Orihime to have to 'change and become better' so that Ichigo will notice her and decide to go out with her because she's 'improved' like we've seen championed on so many other message boards.

>_>; I already wrote an essay on the Gin/Rukia thread, I'm sure everyone nice enough to put up with my walls of text there will be happier if I spare them. XD

I do want to say though that as frustrating as it is to know that Chad and Rukia are hurt, and I'm on pins and needles waiting to see what's happened to them, I really do think staying where she is is the smartest thing Orihime can do right now. :/ For the reasons other people have mentioned and also because if she were to run now, with or without Nell, it would distract Ichigo even more from the fight than with her there and in potential danger. Orihime, as it's been said, isn't a fighter, and more than that, she's not a soldier. Ichigo has learned to be a soldier, and if it were him or Rukia or Renji in Orihime's position, then running to take care of the injured while one of the others fought would be viable. But she and Nell are both basically civilians, and right now Ichigo believes he can win and run, I think. She can't travel as quickly as he can, she doesn't have the option of fighting to break through if the area is crawling with arrancar, and we've already seen how well the Espada tend to follow orders. Aizen hasn't interfered with Orihime getting hurt so far, so there's nothing to say he wouldn't be just as willing to lend her to Noitora for a while, or worse (if there is anyone worse in the Espada who'd be interested in her x_x).

Right now in order to not be distracted, Ichigo needs her and Nell where he can see them. They're the people he's acting as a shield for currently. If he can't see them, he's going to stop to wonder if they're getting hurt. The two of them know Rukia and Chad are hurt, and the last thing Ichigo needs is uncertainty as to whether anyone else is. He can't depend on Orihime to get there quickly and not run into anyone who would hurt her, because as other people have pointed out, she's human. She doesn't have anything close to mastery of her power (I don't think she's even entirely aware of their current limits), and even with it, physically she doesn't have the kind of advantages the others do. If Ichigo can win this fight (oh god Grimmjow please don't die (/;_____; )/) and have Orihime and Nell right there to grab and run to the others, they probably actually have a better chance of finding them quickly and keeping intact than if she went ahead. I'd be rolling my eyes more if she'd done something like that, because as painful as it is to know the other characters are hurt, running off recklessly and putting themselves in danger further is something airhead damsel in distress characters usually do.

Also as Guildenstern mentioned I do think her seeing Ichigo fight here is important to her character development, since it's been hinted since she saw him with the Vizored that he's changing from the person she thinks she knew into someone with the "killer instinct" necessary to win against Aizen's Espada. Guildenstern said she'd be impressed if I managed to somehow work Nietzsche into this but I'm gonna throw up my hands here and leave it to her. -__-

So much for not writing an essay. ;-; I'm going to bed now, I swear...

[sagittarius19]

@Jasse- That look was priceless! *UlquixInoue<3*

While I can't defend Inoue for her action *why would I in the first place*, I do like her and I understand her quite a bit. Yes it is frustrating to see her not doing anything but I guess for a typical teenager in love she's the tendency to forget others. I don't think she's aware of the critical situation her friends are in now trying to save her all because of Ichigo except the Rukia skewered scene. I can't compare her to Rukia because they're not on the same level in terms of handling emotions. Wait, Rukia was too with Kaien dealings but she got over it..ah well I don't know they're just not on the same level. I wish she will realize soon what's she doing there standing by instead of helping. The fact that Kubo had her there for like ages now must have an importance later in terms of plot development. I'd like to think that.

@ros- *nods* It makes sense she stays there until the fight's over. But I doubt she'll escape with Ichi and co, before we know it Ulqui's there to bring her back.

[Axie]

Nice, Ros. Haha I agree completely.

I would say she cares about what Ulq thinks of her at least, she feels a bit guilty to me in that scene where she avoided eye contact.

Yeah, it's funny, I think Orihime's giving him that look because she feels guilty for slapping him. XD That's Inoue for you.

[Mz D]

Interesting thoughts Ros, I agree it's not sensible for Orihime to run off to save Chad and Rukia. She is worried about them I assume but we're not seeing much of her inner thoughts so it's hard to guess what she's thinking. We can all make a guess on her actions and speech that she gave. She's going to believe in Ichigo even if it scares her.

She was easily beaten up by the two female arrancar, if she did run off to save Rukia and Chad it would be a complete failure. Orihime does not know where the they are and it makes sense to go together. Splitting up is not the best strategy.

I'd like to see her using her shield more to protect herself from the battle that she is forced to watch. I remember thinking when she made that vow to not depend on Ichigo that she was making a good step forward. I guess it would be hard to do that when you feel so useless. She was gagged and chained by Grimmjaw and I think that didn't help her self esteem. Orihime needs to prove herself this arc and I think it will happen. I can understand people's disappointment and frustration with Orihime, she said she would stand on her own and now she isn't.

Her character has got a long way to go but I think she will pull through for her friends. She does put them above herself, she even came to HM because she thought she was doing it for her friends.

Now I think she needs to learn to have faith in her friends. She failed at that last time and got kidnapped, now she's standing near Ichigo and given the choice to have faith in him as a friend. I think it's good that she's believing in him.

[Ros]

Just wanted to add one more thing real quick, dealing with the fact that she hasn't thought of Rukia since she saw her hurt by Arroenero--everything I think has happened really quickly, between her being physically battered by Lolly and Menolly, Grimmjow coming in and brutalizing them, being picked up, thrown around, seeing Ichigo again, realizing he had almost died, and everything since--she's probably never seen this much actual violence in her life, and at this point any normal person in her situation would have started to cope by taking things as they come. She doesn't know what might happen next, and while I'm surprised Kubo didn't have either Ichigo or Orihime mention Rukia, it makes sense at the actual speed of what's been going on--an hour I think at the most with one thing hitting them right after another, even though it seems like a long time with a week between chapters. x___X

*is dragged to sleep*

[Shannon]

Mm, I think soon Inoue will end up doing something beside watching Ichigo and Grimmjaw fight, but that's me trying to defend her actions. I think she's just caught up in the midst of everything, but I'm sure she might do something. Although I'm not really an Inoue fan, I think she'll do something useful, because KT must have a reason for her being there? Who knows, we'll just have to wait. She might just do what all the readers want, such as running off to save Rukia and Sado, but thinking of Inoue and her character, she might only go if 'Kurosaki-kun' tells her to. I think that would be how the situation might go, but then again, everything's full of twists.

Or, Ulquiorra might end up escape sooner than Grimmjaw had predicted, and haul Orihime away.

:)

[eurys]

Orihime, as it's been said, isn't a fighter, and more than that, she's not a soldier.
Then she should admit it and stop angsting over it. She's the one who wanted to be more pro-active and who wanted to find her role on the battlefield...

But she and Nell are both basically civilians
Civilian? Orihime? After all her adventures in SS? She's a part of the gang, she's not considered a civilian, especially with her great powers now.

Right now in order to not be distracted, Ichigo needs her and Nell where he can see them.
Well, it's a double-edged sword...For narrative purpose, GJ sending a cero at her and Nell allowed Ichigo to power-up and protect them...but what if they had been hurt? That would have defeated the purpose of this rescue mission.

He can't depend on Orihime to get there quickly and not run into anyone who would hurt her, because as other people have pointed out, she's human.
Wait...Chad is human too...and Ishida is quite the human, despite his Quincy status. I don't understand what you mean. Is she, or is she not a member of our heroic gang? She is, right? She's not a fragile little thing. Like Rukia, she could use some determination, make her own choices and go help her firends...or at least, just THINK about them. She's not a tertiary character who is expected to do nothing.

Oh well...I think what Inoue's defenders are forgetting is that the girl herself thought she was a burden. She's the one who said clearly that next time she'll meet Ichigo, she'll fight next to him. How are we asking too much from her, when Kubo voiced those exact same expectations?

[SiSL]

Too much text blocks blinded with fandome or anti fandome hurts eyes:

- Why is Orihime Just Standing There?
- Because Kubo wants it like this. If situation is to be changed, he will inform us.

[Shannon]

- Why is Orihime Just Standing There?
- Because Kubo wants it like this. If situation is to be changed, he will inform us.

^Amen. I would've written that, but I'd seem so small against everyone else's text walls. ^_^

[Jasse]

Right, SiSl.;)

I'll reserve my judgment for later cause this all seem very deliberate on Kubo's part at the moment, Her belief in Ichigo, her self-doubts and now her fears. We are up to date with every emotion of hers regarding this battle so far.

[NeoSapien]

Too much text blocks blinded with fandome or anti fandome hurts eyes:

- Why is Orihime Just Standing There?
- Because Kubo wants it like this. If situation is to be changed, he will inform us.

Yep, that's it. If, for example, Ichigo were to lose and die in the next chapter and (after Grimmjow leaves, no longer interested) Orihime resurrects him but loses all faith in him, it would explain the narrative purpose of her just standing there trying to have faith in him right now.

[Saint Jack]

Argg, timeouts. Anyway, Id like to apoligize to anyone I offended with my comments or how they were perceived. Now with this situation of Orihime "standing around", I don't think it can be portrayed in anyway as a reflection on her character. She already showed before she acted on basic instinct to save her friends when she learned of their fates. But this situation is different, with her being dragged here, having to heal Ichigo and his current promise to her. Yeah she could act on basic instinct again, getting herself and Nell lost or captured, but her best chance is to wait for the outcome of this battle, heal Ichigo and go off to save the others. Also, its interesting that Ichigo didn't scream at her to save the others and he has his own fascination with this battle.

I agree Orhime has some ways to go and still struggles when forced to deal harm to others in protecting/saving others. But her struggles are what makes her one of the most normal characters in bleach, she's not a battle-hardened-vet and she's pacifistic in nature. I believe she stepped into despair while in HM, and never wished for her friends to rescue her with her only goal of destroying the orb. However things have changed and now she has a chance to re-commit her resolve, maybe not with this battle but I think she might get a situation soon to demonstrate the "will of fire" she's been looking for.

[Jasse]

Yep, that's it. If, for example, Ichigo were to lose and die in the next chapter and (after Grimmjow leaves, no longer interested) Orihime resurrects him but loses all faith in him, it would explain the narrative purpose of her just standing there trying to have faith in him right now.

If Ichigo does lose..OMG, it will be a huge hit to her(as lose all hope in her being rescued, it will the last straw, she can handle Rukia and Chad's defeat but Ichigo's ultimately falling before her would cause her to lose all whats left of that hope she's desperately clinging on), not only then she will revive him, she might then seek the others and heal them..and decisively tell them to leave HM.

Thinking about from this narrative perspective, Orihime actually being present is a must(plot-wise), even if its not the "right" or ideal/heroic/instinctive thing to do.

[Ileenka]

If Ichigo does lose..OMG, it will be a huge hit to her(as lose all hope in her being rescued, it will the last straw, she can handle Rukia and Chad's defeat but Ichigo's ultimately falling before her would cause her to lose all whats left of that hope she's desperately clinging on), not only then she will revive him, she might then seek the others and heal them..and decisively tell them to leave HM.

Thinking about from this narrative perspective, Orihime actually being present is a must(plot-wise), even if its not the "right" or ideal/heroic/instinctive thing to do.

She looked stunned beyond disbelief when Grimmjow told her that Ichigo was defeated by Ulquiorra and on the verge of dying. All this hero worshipping is starting to shatter into pieces, she may start worshipping Grimmjow or Ulquiorra depending on who is the victor of the battle (I believe she already has respect for him since she was intimidated by his stare in 278, this reaction is puzzling when she was brave enough to stand up to him in 262 and it's not her fault that she came away with Grimmjow anyway).

I'm rather annoyed that she's just standing there and repeating Ichigo's name over and over when there are so many useful things she could do. She is not helpless nor powerless but she acted as if she is the sorriest victim all the time when her comrades have it just as bad or far worse. She is wasting Ichigo's precious time and despite vowing never to be a burden again, she really doesn't think rationally and doesn't act accordingly. If she had done one impressive thing, Ichigo might have noticed her long ago.

She just doesn't do anything, I don't know why is she just standing there, but I hope KT has some explanation for this and she is witnessing all these for a reason. Why do I get the feeling it's going to be another form of victimisation again? -_-

[Geta Boshi]

1* Firstly Inoue is not slow she is intelligent she can take care of herself. So she is same as Team Ichi so stop treating her as a special case . She is strong determined and capable

2* Las Noches is safer than Seireitei why because Aizen needs her and will never harm her so will all his minions . GJ / Loli and Menoli acted on a personal whim She has been physically treated as a guest NOT a captive .

3* Aizen already knows . Why How ?? GJ / Ulqi / Ichi are blasting Reatsu and Aizen is very interested in Ichi .You do remember the reason, For what was GJ was humbled

4* If she meets an Espada then what …. When we are speaking hypothetically Fraccion/Espada can very well pop up there the fight is taking place in Espada Palace

5* She can locate Rukia’s reatsu Ichi who is worst at sensing reatsu knew about Rukia. Ichi was on his way before Ulqi showed up

She was extremely determined in chapter 270 and now her frustrations have given way to delight . I can understand infatuation taking over momentarily but now that she is settled she has to get her priorities right

And the best part is Inoue has not even mentioned or spared a thought towards Rukia not even once

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4160/m7bleachch27009za6.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m7bleachch27009za6.jpg) http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/139/m7bleachch27910fh5.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m7bleachch27910fh5.jpg)

[kiriya]

the only thing we can do...is wait for a miracle something:(, but right now, even being a fan, i agree that she's just being a burden and doing nothing there, no matter how dangerous it would be to run and look for the others, the intention its what it counts, her friends are risking their lifes for her, at least she can try to help them, she's smart, she can sense reiatsu, and she has a very useful power..both nell and orihime can heal the team..

[Shannon]

She just doesn't do anything, I don't know why is she just standing there, but I hope KT has some explanation for this and she is witnessing all these for a reason. Why do I get the feeling it's going to be another form of victimisation again? -_-

She can be what Rukia wasn't. Standing in a corner while being rescued. O:
Like volume 14. o.O;;;

[Dice]

But the difference was that Rukia had no powers whatsoever at all. She was spirtually drained, so much so that even high powerful reiatsu made her faint. Orihime does have the power to save her friends. She is technically left alone, Rukia was never left alone with the chance to escape by herself and go help people.

Plus, Orihime has already expressed a willingness to want to go to her friends in 170 and she saw the brutal battle, which is definitely more traumatizing than just feeling someone's reaitsu dip. I want Orihime to express a desire to actually do something to help her friends instead of just standing on the sidelines, cheerleading, and being made a possible target for Grimmjow.

[eurys]

But the difference was that Rukia had no powers whatsoever at all. She was spirtually drained, so much so that even high powerful reiatsu made her faint.
And I'll even add that the brother she was looking up to "approved" of her death sentence.
Rukia really believed she deserved to be executed by the organisation she was working for.
Orihime does not have all that baggage.

[debbiechan]

Ahem, can we not get into comparisons of Rukia and Orihime? We're talking about Orihime here. I didn't start this thread because I wanted people trying to one-up one another for their girl. Orihime's character is important to this arc, important to Bleach, and MANY people are confused as to what Kubo is up to with her now.

Someone above described her as the perfect wife, damsel in distress, wait for the man to come home stereotype---in response, I have to say no she isn't. Amd more importantly, Orihime herself doesn't want to be this sort of stereotype. She herself has said that she wants to fight along Kurosaki, defend herself, not be a burden to people.

The story is telling us she has to change. I think we have to be patient. If there's no change--say, Kubo gives us an Orihime who accepts her passivity and who can't go beyond it in terms of power, then he will be telling us a tragedy, not a coming-of-age story.

I happen to be of the opinion that Orihime needs to (and will) get over her strong, unreciprocated feelings for Kurosaki, and that these feelings are in some way important to fueling her behavior and making her grow (for the better, finally--I think Ichigo's influence on people is always positive). I don't think we should talk about shipping issues or Orihime's love for Ichigo, but I'm warming up to what people have said about Kubo wanting her to see something in this battle; she might be standing there for the reason that's most apparent (she can't let Ichigo out of her sight bc she loves him so much) but maybe this battle will move her the way so many other things haven't in this arc yet. I mean, I thought she'd go supersaiyan when she saw IIchigo hurt, but no, she got big-eyed and dumbstruck. She made a stand to GJ and Ichigo ("I won't heal you") but backed down right away because she trusted Ichigo.

If she loses her trust in Ichigo, I have to say that will be one biiiig change.


She was extremely determined in chapter 270 and now her frustrations have given way to delight . I can understand infatuation taking over momentarily but now that she is settled she has to get her priorities right

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4160/m7bleachch27009za6.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m7bleachch27009za6.jpg) http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/139/m7bleachch27910fh5.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m7bleachch27910fh5.jpg)

Really good response, Geta Boshi. Those panels broke my heart, though, until I put them in context. In the last panels, Orihime is faking a smile. She's putting on a show for Nell. She really does appear confused and in the moment and not thinking--it's not that suddenly Ichigo's appearance made everything daisies and sunshine. She's scared. She should be.

[stifflersthedog]

I rate (and just rate) that Orihime coulda gone to help Chad and Rukia ( they went to help her when they shouldn't of, following the "They'd just get captured killed logic", yet no one seems to mind that :P) fact is she didn't, and the reason hasn't been made clear as to why, but I'm darn sure Kubo will show us soon.

My personal stab of a guess is that its an opposite/parallel to SS arc. Rukia had no faith in Ichigo and had to get some, Orihime has oodles of faith in him, and is likely to loose some (which would probably help her development)

Anyway i just bought WoW (thank god) otherwise i'd probably care more....

Finally the only reason i feel a slight frustration towards Orihime right now, is cause in my mind she is the best bet for saving my fav character (rukia), I dont really degrudge her for not going it just i wish she did/will.

[Shannon]

My personal stab of a guess is that its an opposite/parallel to SS arc. Rukia had no faith in Ichigo and had to get some, Orihime has oodles of faith in him, and is likely to loose some (which would probably help her development)

You've read my mind, a bit. Yeah, I think Orihime's rescue acts as a foil from what happened when Rukia was getting rescued. Dunno about the faith issue, but the concept between Orihime and Rukia seems like a foil-type scene to me.

And have fun with WoW. Don't get addicted, now. :cool:

[Annie]

I can't emphathize with Orihime because all she ever done is wish but never act. She wants to help but now that she has an opportunity she throws it away. Don't give me all those 'oh she'll be captured again' because someone already said she didn't care about it in ch 270. Why does she care about it now? If she just keep quiet and accept the fact the she is a burden, I would have emphathized her. No matter how hard one tried to find an excuse for her behaviour in recent chapters, the truth remains that she's there only for Ichigo and she doesn't spare one thought about her other friends.

@ Stiffler: Rukia always have faith in Ichigo during SS arc. She just doesn't want him to get hurt for her sake. Why do people always forget what Hanatarou has told Ichigo? Funny how Orihime who supposedly has all the faith for Kurosaki never feel that way. He could get injured all he want as long as she stands behind watching his back.

[spacecat]

Ok I'm with Debbiechan here, the thread wasn't "the differences between Inoue and Rukia in a hostage situation" so let's avoid comparing them and get back to the point. Pretty red writing will help them understand.

[tehworstguy]

1* Firstly Inoue is not slow she is intelligent she can take care of herself. So she is same as Team Ichi so stop treating her as a special case . She is strong determined and capable

She is certainly strong, determined, and capable; she is willing to stay in Hueco Mundo and sacrifice herself to erase the Hou Gyoku and thus stop the growth of Aizen's army. She is also the same girl that was successfully coerced into going to Hueco Mundo on a very dubious pretext, namely that going quietly along with Ulq would somehow keep her friends out of harm's way. She does not value herself, and therein lies her vulnerability.

2* Las Noches is safer than Seireitei why because Aizen needs her and will never harm her so will all his minions . GJ / Loli and Menoli acted on a personal whim She has been physically treated as a guest NOT a captive .

GJ, Loli, and Menoli comprise three fourths of the arrancar she's come in contact with without Aizen present. Them ain't good enough odds for her to start running about without an escort. While she has been treated as a guest, she is transparently a captive. She is also a valuable one, given all the resources Aizen has expended on her. She could hardly think that Aizen would let her roam around freely (he locked her in her room, after all) to aid those who had come to let her out. Given this, she must have concluded that she'd have to beat down the many arrancar sent to take her back to her cage in order to heal her friends. Realistically, she cannot expect to be able to beat those odds. Therefore, it only stands to reason that she hasn't moved - there is a far greater chance that she'll be able to do something here (at least in her mind).

3* Aizen already knows . Why How ?? GJ / Ulqi / Ichi are blasting Reatsu and Aizen is very interested in Ichi .You do remember the reason, For what was GJ was humbled

Clearly, but that doesn't offer her any guidance, even if she's aware of it (which it's highly unlikely that she is. She hasn't exactly had time to sit back and ponder her own situation). If she is aware of it, she has no way of knowing if Aizen is marshaling his forces to get her back or if he merely wants her to watch the fight for some diabolical reason.

4* If she meets an Espada then what …. When we are speaking hypothetically Fraccion/Espada can very well pop up there the fight is taking place in Espada Palace

If they did manage to get there before the fight was done, they'd have to contend with Ichigo and, likely, Grimmjow. If the former is too preoccupied protecting Orihime to fight properly, the latter might easily be persuaded to form a temporary alliance.

5* She can locate Rukia’s reatsu Ichi who is worst at sensing reatsu knew about Rukia. Ichi was on his way before Ulqi showed up

That she knows where it is doesn't mean she can find her way there; that's what makes mazes so tricky. Secondly, Ichigo sensed Rukia's reiatsu drop as it was happening. It would be much harder, if not altogether impossible, to sense it now.

She was extremely determined in chapter 270 and now her frustrations have given way to delight . I can understand infatuation taking over momentarily but now that she is settled she has to get her priorities right

And the best part is Inoue has not even mentioned or spared a thought towards Rukia not even once

Nor has Ichigo, at least that we've seen. Manga is not the best medium for mapping out the state of a consciousness at any given moment; it only has time to deal with the most momentarily relevant thoughts. That Rukia hasn't been shown to be present in Ichigo or Inoue's minds does not mean that she isn't.
____

I'm beginning to wonder just how involved this parallel arc is. The similarities between this arc and the SS arc are many and documented, but what really strikes me as how fan reaction to this arc was eerily mirrored in fan reaction to the SS arc. Bleach forums may be down, but I remember all the threads and the posts that denounced Rukia for being weak, weepy, and worthless. She was just sitting there in the tower, after all, wishing for death. Show some spine, am I right? Well, I'm not.

At that point, Rukia was dealing with many severely traumatic psychological burdens at once. From a literary stand point, it would be inexcusable to have her simply shake all that off and rebound from her woes like some tiny Japanese death pixie and flit off into the horizon to provide the reader with a memorable and uplifting moral about the resilience of the human spirit. More seriously, I dislike it when characters are called weak merely because they fail to deal with problems in the typical shounen formula. I personally find desperately wanting to help but not quite knowing how a far better tactic than angrily butting your head against the wall in the hope that it gives.

Inoue is now in Rukia's position, of course. She's getting flack from fans for being emotionally crippled by, well, events that are indescribable without the word crippling. People generally don't criticize Ichigo for looking for his mother down by the river the day after she died, but they aren't as afraid to do that to Inoue. Maybe it's because Ichigo's Formatively Traumatic Event happened in a flashback, or because it took so little chapter space, or because he's male. Whatever the reason, many don't recognize that the two situations are entirely equivalent insofar as how they affect the characters. Inoue will likely grow from this experience, but that will only come a good while after this arc is done. Right now, she's just childlike and subject to her basic drives and deepest feelings, as Ichigo and Rukia were. That's precisely how Aizen wants her.

[pan]

Like many of you, I too am disappointed and irked at Orihime's character developement (or lack therof) thus far.

And what we are all hoping for is for her (to start?) to grow stronger essentially; which I think many people believe would be shown by her running to find Chad and Rukia.

But what I'm thinking is that her character growth isn't going to come from going to find Chad and Rukia (though it certainly can), but from seeing Ichigo fight GJ. He's going to fight like Orihime's never seen him before, and this will shatter her idealization of him (I hope) - which I think is one of the most important in her development into a stronger character.

We all are angered and peeved at her passivity, but I think she needs to see this in order to grow.

[SiSL]

Ok I'm with Debbiechan here, the thread wasn't "the differences between Inoue and Rukia in a hostage situation" so let's avoid comparing them and get back to the point. Pretty red writing will help them understand.

That's the main reason where blinded fandomes are fighting, don't you think?

- "Orihime is enemy of IchixRuki so I should find something to show Hime being weak"
- "Rukia is enemy of IchiXHime so I should find something to Rukia to be weak"

Anyway, Orihime's character development is "as it is". There are millions of Orihimes in this world too. Romantic, looking for her dreams, can't hurt anyone, in her inner world, only wish to be with her love, lost to her emotions. She won't be necessarily fighter like anyone else or strong character. Like most I'd rather her to die for her aims, but this is way too early to talk. Remember, we are still having chapters long for 11 seconds.

- Will Orihime be strong in her resolve? Will Rukia stop being a sandbag to every enemy?

In the end, this is Shonen, where 'strong' female characters are 'miracles'. That's why we will wait for fight to end to advance in plot. There is nothing at this moment for last 3 chapters but clash of man egos.

[spacecat]

That's the main reason where blinded fandomes are fighting, don't you think?

- "Orihime is enemy of IchixRuki so I should find something to show Hime being weak"
- "Rukia is enemy of IchiXHime so I should find something to Rukia to be weak"

Totally, that's why I hate comparisons, if anything it only proves the opinion is ship based and therefore most likely bias. Makes everything a waste of time.

[Guildenstern]

Whoa, how did Rukia get into this O____O;; Rukia is Rukia, Orihime is Orihime and they react in different ways to things because they are different people. That's OK. o___O;; Orihime doesn't have to be like Rukia for her to be a worthy chara, she's fine the way she is. If Kubo had wanted two Rukias with different looks in the series he'd have just drawn long hair and a rack on Rukia at different points in the manga. >.>

Orihime's a good chara who's just going through a really hard transitional period in the story ATM, I don't get all the criticism of "Orihime should be doing this or that" based off of....what Rukia would do? Orihime is not Rukia, and while they both have sweet personalities they deal with things in waaaaaay different ways. That's OK.

Maybe she's just not cut out for "fights" the way people tried to tell her she wouldn't be, but if she'd never tried it for herself she never would have known. Or hell, maybe she'll become some kind of awesome combat medic a la 4th division; with a fistfull of heal in her left hand and 10oz of raging fairy in her right. >:O

I'd say that nobody with the ability to cure and shield the way she does should -ever- be a burden....she just needs to find the right place for her to be and do what she can from there. Like Rukia told her (eeeek I brought up Rukia >_<), in fights there are people who have resolve to help and don't have it, and it's the ones who don't have it that are the burden. Orihime -has- the resolve to help, she just needs to find out -how-.

In short: Orihime is fine the way she is, and furthermore Kubo is having her watch this fight for a reason, and I think it's a good one.
She doesn't need to become a miniature of Rukia to be effective; she just needs to find her niche and work with it. I think once she does that, she'll become more confident and proactive in her business. I mean, she's working off a pretty unstable position. Ishida and others have said she doesn't work well with violence, and seeing as she's -surrounded- by violence, I feel bad for her.

Edit: What on earth is 'ichihime'? o____o;;

[Annie]

My god, I for one never want Orihime to be like anyone else. I love her reaction in ch 270, I love her in ch 277 when she healed Ichigo and in ch 278 when she stood up against GJ. But I have to say that Orihime is not fine with the way she is right now. She has the resolves but right now none of them really matter. I wouldn't be surprise at all if she has forgetten about Hougkyoku and might want to go back with her friends. Because of her inconsistancy, I can't really believe in her words. Until now everything she vowed to do, she hasn't do any of that even if she has an opportunity.

I truely believe there IS the reason why she has to witness this fight. But what scared me is Kubo might just want to show her undying faith in Ichigo. If he wins, how would this fight change her at all? She would only goes 'oh Kurosaki kun is great, he always does great things'. I've seen that before in chapter 199, I don't need to see this again after 100 chapters later. It's frustrating to see no growth from a character after having her in the spotlight for 100 chapters.

PS IchiHime is Ichigo and Orihime pairing.

[Axie]

I'm thinking this fight serves a purpose for Orihime. I think it's going to get rid of that bubbly view she has on "kurosaki-kun" and change into something a little darker. Shes going to witness his true killer instict and his real Vizard form for the first time. It's about time Orihime starts to understand him.

if she has forgetten about Hougkyoku

I seriously hope not! I don't think Kubo would just toss away that idea though. That's huge (haha he gave her a whole manga page to say it XD). When she does that it will probably be at the climax of this arc.

Anyway, I'll point out some slight growth in Orihime's character for those that think she's not growing.

-She came up with a plan to actually make herself useful while she's kept hostage. (in destroying the Hōgyoku)
-She slapped someone. (poor Ulqui XD)
-Lolly and Menoly didn't even have a slight affect on her will, nor did they break her. She didn't even shead a tear.. and her pinky is bent backwards!
-She didn't cry when healing Ichigo, nor did she blame herself for his (almost?) death.
-She gave strong words to Nell on how Ichigo will win.

[Annie]

Kubo gave a chapter for her resolve to 'not look back' at Ichigo in ch 228, he gave ch 237 for her 'good bye, Kurosaki-Kun' and look where we are. After fourty chapters she 'meets' him again and her resolves are gone for now. But I agree that when she didn't cry after seeing Ichigo's condition it did surprised me. That's why I love her action in that chapter. About Menoli's incident, that one I blamed Kubo because I know Orihime will never fight back but I hate that scene.

I wish Kubo explain this soon, all I want is to see some backbone outside Ichigo-centric. Because she's much better when she's not occupied by Kurosaki thoughts

[Axie]

After fourty chapters she 'meets' him again

Annie, I agree.

It kind of irks me that Kubo chose to do that. She's literally watching his back right now. Although, I don't exactly know what else she can do at this point. Running away from the battle would be pointless, and helping Ichigo fight Grimm is out of the question. Maybe she'll end up doing something heroic.. I'm not sure. I'm not going to lose faith in Kubo just yet.

Maybe the promise she made about not watching Ichigo's back, is going to be fulfilled when she destroys the Hougyoko.

[yahoosoda]

Interesting discussion and to be honest, a very touchy one for a lot of people in the Bleach fandom.

I notice that there are a lot of references which link Orihime's infatuation with Ichigo. Yes, I do believe that what she feels right now for Ichigo is infatuation. Now I don't want to debate on the extent of her feelings since I'm not the best person to go into that considering I'm merely following the series from the sidelines as I wait for more progression in the manga.

But what I do want to bring up is WHY Orihime is just standing there devoid of her Ichigo hero-worship.

I've said this before in another forum but I think Orihime lacks the resolve and the strength of character to DO anything at this point. I don't know if she understands exactly what Ichigo and the others are fighting for and what Aizen's beliefs are. A strong character, regardless of what position he/she is in, will not abandon their beliefs. For Orihime to do that, even under the premise of saving her friends, is a sign of weakness for me. She will be in for a harsh wake-up call when she realizes exactly what kind of characters she has affiliated herself with. In defense of Orihime, people keep on claiming that she had no choice at all but to join Aizen since her friends were being beaten but I beg to differ. While Aizen will definitely get her, she had a choice to choose how, willingly or unwillingly. And now Orihime has woven false pretences around her character's captivity.

Now, I'm not bashing Orihime's character but I believe Kubo will have something in store for her later on. But I am a little tired on the focus that is being given to her and I'm not saying this because I may prefer Rukia over to Orihime. I am concerned about other characters, namely Chad, and the progression of the overall plot. All this Orihime focus, is just making me resent her character since I am beginning to realize that this arc is not as well rounded as the other ones. It's Orihime singularity is dragging the story for me and I would like to Kubo to actually begin to develop the grandeur of Aizen's plans rather than Orihime's struggle to break free from her fairy tale lala land.

All in all, I believe that throughout the rest of this arc Orihime will continue to do nothing and remain passive. I don't think Ichigo and his team will even rescue her, its too soon and Aizen's plot hasn't been revealed at all. Orihime will play a part in the 'war' but at this point, I think she will remain with Aizen and his cohorts.

I'm half expecting Ichigo and the crew to be dragged out of there by Isshin and Ryuuken. There will be no tearful goodbye between Ichigo and Orihime; and once again Orihime's fairy tale concepts will be shattered. And if this happens, it remains to be seen if Orihime will realize the reality of the events around her or if she will recognize this as a form of betrayal.

IMHO, apart from Orihime this will also serve as a lesson for Ichigo and his team. If they are unable to 'rescue' her, the harsh realities of war will be brought upon them. I sometimes wonder up to how far is Kubo willing to push this arc. If he trully makes Orihime the enemy, then I will be impressed by his guts to make a deep storyline.

[Axie]

I don't know if she understands exactly what Ichigo and the others are fighting for and what Aizen's beliefs are.

Well, wasn't she the first human told of his plans? Yamamoto explained to Hitsugaya, Matsumoto, and Orihime. I'm sure she understands.

But I am a little tired on the focus that is being given to her and I'm not saying this because I may prefer Rukia over to Orihime. I am concerned about other characters, namely Chad, and the progression of the overall plot.

I understand what you're saying. I think the plot seems to be dragging for you because I believe one the large reasons for this arc is the growth of Orihime. She is progressing from side character, to a more important character that serves a greater purpose to the plot. I can see fans that are easily annoyed with her tend not to like the way the plot is going. I think Kubo realises the potential she has, and how much she can grow.

All in all, I believe that throughout the rest of this arc Orihime will continue to do nothing and remain passive.

Well I'm kind of counting on her to help out Rukia and Chad. If she did nothing, I'd be truly surprised.

In defense of Orihime, people keep on claiming that she had no choice at all but to join Aizen since her friends were being beaten but I beg to differ. While Aizen will definitely get her, she had a choice to choose how, willingly or unwillingly. And now Orihime has woven false pretences around her character's captivity.

Well, if someone held a gun of everyone of your friends' heads, and said come with me or I'll kill them... what would you do?

[yahoosoda]

Well, wasn't she the first human told of his plans? Yamamoto explained to Hitsugaya, Matsumoto, and Orihime. I'm sure she understands.

You can debate all you want but personally, I don't think she does.

She is progressing from side character, to a more important character that serves a greater purpose to the plot. I can see fans that are easily annoyed with her tend not to like the way the plot is going. I think Kubo realises the potential she has, and how much she can grow.

To be honest, I'm not exactly sure why most people are so defensive about Orihime being a side character or being the main female protagonist. Most manga/anime have their leads pre-defined at the very start of the series. And I don't feel like there has to be a competition on who will be next Ms Bleach. All I care about is the progression of the plot. Character development is fine with me, but I want some plot movement as well.

Well I'm kind of counting on her to help out Rukia and Chad. If she did nothing, I'd be truly surprised.

Personally, I doubt it. Even if she will get a wake up call, its too early at this point. Not when the actual plot as actually progressed.

Well, if someone held a gun of everyone of your friends' heads, and said come with me or I'll kill them... what would you do?

Sigh...

Does it matter? She would be taken regardless of whether she goes willingly or not. She could have gone as a captive or joined them, and Aizen will still get what he wants. The whole fight with Ichigo and the others is a diversion to get her, not really a life and death situation IMHO.

[Axie]

I'm not exactly sure why most people are so defensive about Orihime being a side character or being the main female protagonist.

I'm not being defensive. ^^; It's quite obvious that Rukia is the main female protagonist, or 'Ms. Bleach.' I'm just saying Orihime will become a little more important than she was in the soul society. (how else will the hougyoko get destroyed?)

Personally, I doubt it.

Kubo is not going to kill off Rukia. But, she's kind of (or nearly) dead right now, how else do you else do expect her to be okay? And Chad can't even move right now, he's nearly dead too. I think the one to heal them will be Orihime. But your opinion is your opinion. (:

She could have gone as a captive or joined them

If she refused Uquiorra, and became a captive... her friends would be dead right now.

[yahoosoda]

If it had been certain that my friends would come after me then I would definitely reject Aizen! Orihime should know her friends' personalities, eh??

It's either that or she really doesn't know and is trying to 'save' them in the guise of sacrificing herself. But yeah, after what they went through I think its pretty much obvious to anyone who is Ichigo's friend, that he will not just leave anyone behind and that the will always save his friends, even if its seen as foolish or if the odds are stacked against him. Which once again raises my concerns regarding the pretense of her captivity.

Kubo is not going to kill off Rukia. But, she's kind of (or nearly) dead right now, how else do you else do expect her to be okay? And Chad can't even move right now, he's nearly dead too. I think the one to heal them will be Orihime. But your opinion is your opinion. (:

This is Bleach. And from what I have seen in other chapters of the manga, the list of characters from this series is quite expansive and often times some characters 'pop out of nowhere' to progress the story. Which is pretty much what I am expecting will happen.

If she refused Uquiorra, and became a captive... her friends would be dead right now.

Sigh... Is she even a captive? I am questioning the terms behind her captivity. Where does her beliefs lie now?

[Nell]

Why is Orihime Just Standing There?

That's a question I'd like to learn its answer so badly. And I'm sorry but I don't buy this "she can't wander around in HM safely, she will end with being captured again or get killed before she reaches Rukia or Chad" yadda yadda yadda. *sigh* The people who bring these arguments as an excuse for her not taking any action, are basically saying that she's acting selfish. Because,
no matter how much you look at it, it means, Orihime chooses her own well being over her friends'. She prioritizes her life or her already inexistant freedom over her friends' lives.

One might say she's doing to most logical thing to do because there is already no chance for her to reach to her friends. But please name me any other character in the hero ranks who wouldn't try to save their friends because of the possible risks, who would be scared by the possible outcomes of trying to save a friend's life?

-...

Exactly, no one. Chad, Rukia, Ishida, Renji and Ichigo have already done this. And once upon a time, Orihime had done it, too. Going to SS, going to HM, splitting in HM would have been the last thing they'd have done, had they cared about their lives or freedom first and the foremost. But they didn't, they chose the "stupid" thing to save their friends. So, what's wrong with expecting Orihime to do the same "stupid" thing? Just no.. A big fat NO to the "she is doing the most reasonable thing to do" excuse. I, personally, don't think she is just standing there because she thinks it's the safest thing to do. I really hope she doesn't think that way.

The only reason I can come up with for her current passivity is that she's too stunned and preoccupied with Ichigo's fight to think about other things. It's not a reason that I'd adore her for, but at least it's acceptable to a degree. And like it's mentioned before, hopefully, her watching Ichigo's back in this fight will serve for a good purpose later in the series. These are the only things that I can accept as a reason for her passivity right now.

[Axie]

You can debate all you want but personally, I don't think she does.

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screesvw3.jpg

I think she has remote understanding of his plans. :/

She prioritizes her life or her already inexistant freedom over her friends' lives.

Interesting thoughts, Nell! But, her friends are hurt or nearly dead right now, and Orihime knows they need her. So if Orihime gets killed or recaptured, it would only leave little to no hope for her friends. I think she realises this.

Plus little nell needs her to to look after her.

[debbiechan]

Manga is not the best medium for mapping out the state of a consciousness at any given moment; it only has time to deal with the most momentarily relevant thoughts. That Rukia hasn't been shown to be present in Ichigo or Inoue's minds does not mean that she isn't.

I disagree here. Manga is just as fine as any other medium for demonstrating what a character is feeling. Better than text alone--which gives you just words. Better than a movie--which usually gives you only pictures. Kubo's done a pretty good job of going into his character's heads--there are flashbacks, thought bubbles, long soliloquies like Ishida is given to.

Ichigo thought of Chad when he felt him go down and then resolved to keep going; he thought of Rukia when he felt her reiatsu and wanted to help her;
Rukia was given pages of her state of consciousness the last time we saw her--she thought about all the people in her life, not just Inoue.

The problem with this arc is that we haven't seen very little, if ANY of Orihime's internal state of mind. This is "disappointing" because the last time we saw her before she was captured, we had nothing but her state of mind expressed to a (sleeping) Ichigo. In this arc we had her thoughts when she decided to destroy the hougyoku and we saw her determination, but Kubo's chosen to convey most of her feelings and emotions through her gestures and facial expressions---

and so far, all we can tell is that she's afraid, as anyone would be, and confused, as anyone would be, and glad to see Ichigo, as anyone in love would be.
____

I'm beginning to wonder just how involved this parallel arc is. The similarities between this arc and the SS arc are many and documented, but what really strikes me as how fan reaction to this arc was eerily mirrored in fan reaction to the SS arc. Bleach forums may be down, but I remember all the threads and the posts that denounced Rukia for being weak, weepy, and worthless. She was just sitting there in the tower, after all, wishing for death. Show some spine, am I right? Well, I'm not.

Alright, this is an apt comparison, because you're not comparing the two girls but the fans reactions to the two girls. I hadn't thought of this parallel--it's really interesting. Maybe audiences (especially female ones?) expect more from their heroines in shounen. I know that I personally am always rooting for the girl to be more than just a pair of clasped hands over a heaving bosom while the hero does all the work.

At that point, Rukia was dealing with many severely traumatic psychological burdens at once. From a literary stand point, it would be inexcusable to have her simply shake all that off and rebound from her woes like some tiny Japanese death pixie and flit off into the horizon to provide the reader with a memorable and uplifting moral about the resilience of the human spirit.

Another good point. I like Orihime a lot, but I want her to get over her issues quick--because I can't stand watching her like this and because I don't want to think of her reactions as purely archtypical (the way one dimensional characters are archetypes and that's it). But yeah, give the issues Orihime has, we really can't seriously expect her to get over them in two hours or a few chapters.

More seriously, I dislike it when characters are called weak merely because they fail to deal with problems in the typical shounen formula. I personally find desperately wanting to help but not quite knowing how a far better tactic than angrily butting your head against the wall in the hope that it gives.

Ahh, but butting your head against a wall works for the boys in the shounen formula--the wall gives or some amazing coincidence occurs and the boys get to move past their fears and into a flashy power-up. I want that for Orihime.

Inoue will likely grow from this experience, but that will only come a good while after this arc is done. Right now, she's just childlike and subject to her basic drives and deepest feelings, as Ichigo and Rukia were. That's precisely how Aizen wants her.

You just scared me. This could be true. I don't think even her biggest fans could sit easy with Orihime becoming much more vulnerable, though. She has to change in this arc or the story becomes too dark. Even as Ichigo and Rukia fought their own traumas, they seemed proactive--Ichigo had this protection complex and Rukia had lots of flashbacks in the tower that seemed psychologically necessary.

Orihime? She's being played by Aizen too well. And that's enormously scary. I can't wait to see if and when those two meet again.

[yahoosoda]

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screesvw3.jpg

I think she has remote understanding of his plans. :/


So you mean to tell me that she is fully behind Aizen and his plans? Or is she playing him as well? Or is Aizen manipulating her, the same way he manipulated Hinamori?

[Axie]

So you mean to tell me that she is fully behind Aizen and his plans? Or is she playing him as well? Or is Aizen manipulating her, the same way he manipulated Hinamori?

Huh? I think we're talking about two different things here lol. I was talking her understanding about the plans of remaking the kings key and what not.

[Nell]

Interesting thoughts, Nell! But, her friends are hurt or nearly dead right now, and Orihime knows they need her. So if Orihime gets killed or recaptured, it would only leave little to no hope for her friends. I think she realises this.


You know this argument is valid for every kind of situations that have happened. If Ichigo, or Renji, got killed or captured, who would've saved Rukia? Those are meaningless "if"s. If she really thinks about her friends' lives ATM, there's no reason for her to stand there. That's why I said, she is too preoccupied with Ichigo. It's not that she's scared of being captured or getting killed while trying to save her friends or she's choosing her own well being. This is how I see Orihime, she doesn't care about herself in a situation like this. It's her Ichigo-centric being that's tieing her hands right now.

[Axie]

there's no reason for her to stand there.

I think she wants to see the outcome of the battle, and heal Ichigo after the battle (edit: and she has to look after little nell). Being Orihime, I know how Ichigo-centric she is... maybe seeing his true side, in Vizard, maybe she'll mature a bit and her flowery view on Ichigo will shatter.

I think Orihime knows that she can bring back anyone, after bringing Menoly back from her ashes. I think she's more confident in her healing abilities and knows, no matter what Rukia and Chad's condition are right now.. she'll bring them back.

I'm just throwing around ideas. (:

[Annie]

Wow Nell, I totally agree with you here no wonder I claimed you XD. Everyone in this rescue mission acts 'stupid' in order to save a friend and that one person refuses to spare a thought about them really speaks the volume (I still cannot forgive her 'Thank you, Kurosaki-Kun in ch 249). I don't believe she's there because she concerns about her safety, that is not Orihime's character. So the only explanation we have is she still standing there because Ichigo is there. I don't mind if she want to be there, all I ask for is an explanation why she is not thinking about her friends. People are coming up with excuses for her behaviours while she herself doesn't give us a clue why she does this.

[yahoosoda]

I think Orihime knows that she can bring back anyone, after bring Menoly back from her ashes. I think she's more confident in her healing abilities and knows, no matter what Rukia and Chad's condition are right now.. she'll bring them back.

If this is the case, then all the gravity of the fights in HM will be rendered meaningless for me.

[Axie]

If this is the case, then all the gravity of the fights in HM will be rendered meaningless for me.

That's true, but only when Orihime is running around. When Orihime gets recaptured again (I mean, come on, Aizen's not going to let her get away) all the fights are tense again.

The only time we saw a weakness in Orihime's healing, is when she was trying to reject Uqluiorra's highly concentrated reiatsu on Ichigo. I guess Kubo is suggesting that Orihime isn't as Godly as we thought.

Highly concentrated reiatsu gives her trouble. Think about Aizen's reiatsu.. I don't think she'd be able to reject anything he'd do.

[HaNa]

Why is Orihime Just Standing There?

I think she forgets everything once she sees her prince ichigo .. She knows that she shouldn't interrupt ichigo/grim fight, so she thinks it's better for her to stand and believe on her Kurosaki.. she might be waiting for a permission from ichigo to be able to leave and help chad and rukia or maybe her mind is fill of ichigo right now which interrupts her other thoughts (about her friends)…I think this is the way kubo displays her to me..a girl who focuses on her love more than her friends >_> (tatsuki who's known as a best friend to her, became like the rest when her love was awaken)

[Nell]

If this is the case, then all the gravity of the fights in HM will be rendered meaningless for me.

Add on to that, it'd be very cruel of Orihime, if she delays healing just because the time doesn't matter. True, the time doesn't matter, but being in pain of fatal injuries, suffering from all those injuries for a longer time? Doesn't it matter, either? I don't think so. I know you're throwing out ideas but it's not the Orihime I know. So, I stand firm in my belief that she's standing there because of her Ichigo-centric being. All the other possible reasons point out a cruel or selfish Orihime that I'd rather to rule them out.

There's also another thing that supports the validity of Ichigo-centric behaviours in this ch: She even needed Ichigo to remind her to use her shield to protect herself and Nell. Why? Because she's so stunned to think properly. And there goes the theory that she also has to look after Nell. I really don't think she is capable of analyzing the situation she's been in now.

[SiSL]

If I were instead of Orihime, I'd stand and watch for good laughter to GJ's release :D

[Axie]

If I were instead of Orihime, I'd stand and watch for good laughter to GJ's release

I think I would too! Haha.

Lol I should draw a comic about that! XD *takes out tablet*

[Mei]

If she really thinks about her friends' lives ATM, there's no reason for her to stand there. That's why I said, she is too preoccupied with Ichigo. It's not that she's scared of being captured or getting killed while trying to save her friends or she's choosing her own well being. This is how I see Orihime, she doesn't care about herself in a situation like this. It's her Ichigo-centric being that's tieing her hands right now.

I absolutely agree, Nell.

I think that Orihime is tied to her position at the sidelines of the
fighting grounds, because she´s just -as simple as that- happy
and relieved to see Ichigo again; she was able to heal him from
his wounds caused by Ulquiorra. Now she wants to assure his safety,
his welfare and wants to make sure that he will win against Grimmjow
(if not, she will be able to immediately heal him
(if Grimmjow should ever allow such an action after he defeated Ichigo....well, rather unlikely)).
We all know that she is very Ichigo-centric and IMO that this is the only reason for
her current behaviour; in the last 3 chapters we didn´t get to know if she thinks about her
friends. She sees Ichigo and all that matters for her in this situation is his welfare.
He is her priority. For me, this is the only reason why she is standing at the sidelines
and is only watching the fight, instead of going to rescue Chad and Rukia.
She sees Ichigo in his shining armor (caution: exaggerated) and wants to make sure that
he wins in the end. We didn´t get to know any other reason for her passiveness yet,
but I really hope that Kubo point out his intentions with Orihime´s
character in the next chapters, because her torpor –really- annoys me.
She vowed that she wants to fight alongside Ichigo, that she doesnt´want to be a burden;
She wants to be helpful and actually: she can be quite helpful, but she doesn´t show the right
resolve; she feels insecure and it seems that she doesn´t exactly want to accept her purpose as
a sole healer.
If she would decide to search for Rukia and Chad,
her chances of being captured aren´t
necessarily higher than just standing there and watching.
She coud be re-captured right there from the spot, because Aizen
should already know that she´s missing and if
he really wants her back in prison, he would sent
out other Espada or even Tousen/Gin.
I doubt that Ichigo could do much against that,
because Grimmjow wouldn´t allow Ichigo
to abandon their fight.

Well, my résumée:
I´m also disappointed in her current behaviour and her over all
development.
But well, she´s just 16 years old and I think her
personality just doesn´t
allow her atm to exceed her actions.

[Cara]

Well, my résumée: I´m also disappointed in her current behaviour and her over all
development. But well, she´s just 16 years old and I think her personality just doesn´t
allow her atm to exceed her actions.

Ichigo is 16 too:p. Everything else I agree with. What is hilarious though is that Orihime's "love" is so strong, but she doesn't even know Ichigo as another person. He is idolized in her mind as a person he isn't. Sure, she can read him, but she doesn't REALLY know him. And he sure as heck doesn't know her and definitely can't read her.

[debbiechan]

There's also another thing that supports the validity of Ichigo-centric behaviours in this ch: She even needed Ichigo to remind her to use her shield to protect herself and Nell. Why? Because she's so stunned to think properly. And there goes the theory that she also has to look after Nell. I really don't think she is capable of analyzing the situation she's been in now.

I believe this. That's what I speculated in my first post, and I want to believe that Orihime's just not thinking now. IF she were thinking, she would be acting. Not remembering to throw up her shield means that she may have forgotten the powers she already has, let alone started to understand her untapped powers.

Kubo has her looking stunned, afraid, acting irrationally. The Orihime I know would do anything to stop people from suffering and all her friends are suffering at the moment--bleeding, dying, who knows what else, maybe Renji and Ishida are already Szayel's experiments. Ichigo is on his feet and can take care of himself. The Orihime I know would help them if she could.

That means the Orihime I know has been knocked out of herself. Pure shock has replaced her.

[Axie]

Kubo has her looking stunned, afraid, acting irrationally. The Orihime I know would do anything to stop people from suffering and all her friends are suffering at the moment--bleeding, dying, who knows what else, maybe Renji and Ishida are already Szayel's experiments. Ichigo is on his feet and can take care of himself. The Orihime I know would help them if she could.

That means the Orihime I know has been knocked out of herself. Pure shock has replaced her.

I find myself agreeing with everything you said. Anyone would naturally be in the state of shock, you're right. (:

[vaizado]

I dont see what Orihime would do if she left though. Its not like she knows Las Noches, she doesnt know WHERE to go! Even if she did, there are Arrancars roaming around everywhere, she would just get caught again. She's not a fighter type, this has been stressed enough so many times, so she cant do anything.

[Mei]

Well, yeah, it might be true that if she leaves Ichigo´s side, she could endanger herself of being captured again, but as I wrote before: this danger is also given while she´s standing there watching, don´t you think? Her current location isn´t necessarily safer, even if Ichigo isn´t far away from her.
My point is: Orihime stated herself that she wants to be helpful, but her vows and (mighty) words don´t fit her current actions.
It´s quite the opposite: in the last chapter, she caused Ichigo to go Vaizard after Grimmjow aimed his Cero at her and Nell.
She was a tool for Grimmjow and now Ichigo is forced to spend all his 11 seconds in Vaizard-mode
(if he´s not miraculously able to extend these 11 seconds)
against Grimmjow, though he probably wanted to use it later.

[Saint Jack]

Its becoming a little bit clearer now as to why Kubo is protraying her this way. Won't know for sure unless we get the trans, but its turning out to be a character experience for her upon seeing Ichigo's dark side. It really doesn't matter what she coulda/shoulda done, its the authors intent for her to witness Ichigo's transformation. We'll have to wait for the end-gambit of all this to see the effects on her and her relationship to Ichigo.

[kiriya]

Its becoming a little bit clearer now as to why Kubo is protraying her this way. Won't know for sure unless we get the trans, but its turning out to be a character experience for her upon seeing Ichigo's dark side. It really doesn't matter what she coulda/shoulda done, its the authors intent for her to witness Ichigo's transformation. We'll have to wait for the end-gambit of all this to see the effects on her and her relationship to Ichigo.

i guess that's one way to look at it

just like debbiechan said, i think somehow orihime it's not being orihime right now, when yammi attacked chad she came back for him even when she was told to take care of tatsuki and run out, she healed him and attacked yammi with tsubaki(though it didn't even make a scratch on him), when yammi was pwning ichigo she tried to interfere and ended up being hurt, even when she didn't have a big role in ss arc, she was somehow helpful, because she wanted to be helpful, right now she has been struck, demoralized, scared, she's doing nothing there and some of her friends are dying, i don't know if all this situation has affected her(plus kurosaki-kun centric), she may be captured, yes, she doesn't know las noches, yes, it doesn't matter!, her friends need her!( i don't think rukia will die but she's in pain for sure, the same with chad), it's not as if everytime you decide to do something by yourself you're going to succeed, like i said, the intention it's what it counts, i just hope all this will take us to some place with her character, cause it's frustrating to see one of my favorite characters thereby, i don't want her to be a fierce warrior(we have a lot of characters with that description), i just wan't her to show her strength and will, i want her to realize that kurosaki-kun is not the only person in the world

[SiSL]

Since we got trans with absolute 5 sentence and 2 roars in total;

Orihime is adviced to use barrier by Ichigo.

[Velius]

I think people are reading too much into the situation. Trying to find reason for something, where there doesn't need to be. Yes, there can be reason, which is why people are over examining every little character detail in an attempt to find an answer, but there doesn't need to be, reason that this, for why Inoue isn't doing anything.

This a fight between Ichigo and Grimmjow. This is how things go. 1 on 1. When Ichigo was fighting Renji in the Soul Society, sure people could have been up in arms going, "why isn't Hanataruo or Ganju doing anything to help!?".

You can then insert whatever reason you want for both situations: they don't want to get involved, Ichigo told them not to get involved, they aren't powerfull enough to do anything or anything else you can think of.

But all that really doesn't matter.
Kubo has Inoue and Nell on the sides watching.
And Grimm and Ichigo fighting.
This is how things go and this is how things will stay until there is reason for Kubo to change it.

[debbiechan]

Hantarou and Ganjyu helping a fight compared to Orihime healing her friends? Nah, that doesn't stand. The only thing in common here is that all the stand-by parties, Hanatarou, Ganjyu and Orihime were terrified and knew that their offensive capabilities were out-matched easily by Ichigo's opponent.

The question most people are asking here is why hasn't Orihime tried to go heal her severely wounded friends (as she apparently wanted to when she saw Rukia hurt--Orihime was pounding on the door) Orihime seemed to forget that fearlessness and determination when she saw Ichigo. She been surprisingly passive. There's been an unaccounted-for change in her behaviour.

Orihime is a main focus of this arc the way Hantarou and Ganju's never were--the latter were stand-by characters by definion and no one was anticipating character growth with them.

This isn't Yumchika standing behind Ikkaku either--that was a situation of a friend honoring a 1 on 1 battle. Orihime knows she can't take on Grimmjow.

I believe that Orihime's actions are being made deliberately ambiguous by Kubo and that the character or limit of her powers isn't clear yet because Kubo wants us to speculate. Orihime, right now, is a mystery.

[Velius]

The question most people are asking here is why hasn't Orihime tried to go heal her severely wounded friends (as she apparently wanted to when she saw Rukia hurt--Orihime was pounding on the door)
On that angel, that would be the usual non convenient plot devise. If characters always took the most logical and the most convenient actions, this story would be about 100 chapters less.

Saying 'why is Inoue stading there' in that sense, would be the same as trying to find the reasons behind:

Why didn't Urahara just tell Ichigo about what he was or what his plans were from the start?
Or why didn't Aizen actually "kill" those that he wanted to? He clearly had the power to make sure they were dead. I mean dead.
Or why would the rescue group all split up in the middle of the enemy's territory?

These kind of things are pointless to think about IMO. It's just how it goes for story purposes. There usually is no meaning or reason behind it in the end. Especailly none that can be made clear by a characters reasonings. Kubo is these characters.

It's just how things unfolded because that's how Kubo wanted it to. Inoue is to be here to watch the fight between Ichigo and Grimm and interact with them. Peoples are going to be needing some healing after this. She's not going to be running off her lonesome.

[tehworstguy]

I disagree here. Manga is just as fine as any other medium for demonstrating what a character is feeling. Better than text alone--which gives you just words. Better than a movie--which usually gives you only pictures. Kubo's done a pretty good job of going into his character's heads--there are flashbacks, thought bubbles, long soliloquies like Ishida is given to.

Ichigo thought of Chad when he felt him go down and then resolved to keep going; he thought of Rukia when he felt her reiatsu and wanted to help her;
Rukia was given pages of her state of consciousness the last time we saw her--she thought about all the people in her life, not just Inoue.


Well, I tend to think that a purely text based artistic medium would be more effective in communicating thought. Someone's face can communicate emotion more effectively than words, but it's not so great at communicating what's going on in someone's mind. Even long trains of thought in the manga have to necessarily be pretty linear and focused due to the constraints of the panels.

People have been disappointed in Inoue and Ichigo for not thinking of Rukia in recent chapters because they haven't been shown to. Inoue clearly was concerned with Rukia (banging on the door, etc) as was Ichigo. I think that they have a considerable amount of worry for her bouncing around that just can't be communicated due to the needs of the moment. The manga clearly has established that the characters worry about each other, but it can't have stray thoughts dedicated to that worry bubbling out at any given moment like a novel could.

The problem with this arc is that we haven't seen very little, if ANY of Orihime's internal state of mind. This is "disappointing" because the last time we saw her before she was captured, we had nothing but her state of mind expressed to a (sleeping) Ichigo. In this arc we had her thoughts when she decided to destroy the hougyoku and we saw her determination, but Kubo's chosen to convey most of her feelings and emotions through her gestures and facial expressions---

and so far, all we can tell is that she's afraid, as anyone would be, and confused, as anyone would be, and glad to see Ichigo, as anyone in love would be.

I don't think she's had much time for cogent thought. She's in the middle of a very traumatic period of time, and it strikes me as unlikely that she is fully aware of her own feelings presently. That's why I believe that her facial expressions are the best mode of describing a character whose mind is falling apart. Certainly ever since her friends started getting taken down, and to some extent since she was abducted, she hasn't been well enough to step outside herself and truly think about her situation.


Alright, this is an apt comparison, because you're not comparing the two girls but the fans reactions to the two girls. I hadn't thought of this parallel--it's really interesting. Maybe audiences (especially female ones?) expect more from their heroines in shounen. I know that I personally am always rooting for the girl to be more than just a pair of clasped hands over a heaving bosom while the hero does all the work.

Well, in Rukia's case, I seem to recall the most vehement denouncements coming from male readers, whereas it seems that the opposite is true with Orihime. Perhaps it's because Orihime had a little more authority in choosing her course? I can't say I find Kubo's tendency to place female characters is situations like these altogether attractive, but I admire his execution of it. Orihime is one of the primary reasons I'm enjoying this arc, because she has been such a realistic portrait of a person going through severe stress.




Another good point. I like Orihime a lot, but I want her to get over her issues quick--because I can't stand watching her like this and because I don't want to think of her reactions as purely archtypical (the way one dimensional characters are archetypes and that's it). But yeah, give the issues Orihime has, we really can't seriously expect her to get over them in two hours or a few chapters.


She has been placed in a stereotypically submissive position, but she hasn't been a stereotype. In the traditional damsel in distress archetype, the damsel is essentially just an object to vindicate the virility of the hero, (and thus that of the young male audience) whereas Orihime has had her individuality enhanced. This arc is about Orihime and her development as a character more than anything else, as all this trauma and all these negative stimuli evince. As a character that was formerly always by the side and never at the forefront, this focus does wonders for her importance and her ability to affect the story.


Ahh, but butting your head against a wall works for the boys in the shounen formula--the wall gives or some amazing coincidence occurs and the boys get to move past their fears and into a flashy power-up. I want that for Orihime.


Sadly, I agree. However much I might want the boys to brain themselves in the attempt, I can't argue with the fact that wall will inevitably give. It really would be unfair for Orihime not to get her chance to be rewarded for being stupid like her friends. (okay, maybe "stupid" is too harsh; perhaps "young and deliciously precocious" would work better) Present circumstances prohibit that from happening now, though.

You just scared me. This could be true. I don't think even her biggest fans could sit easy with Orihime becoming much more vulnerable, though. She has to change in this arc or the story becomes too dark. Even as Ichigo and Rukia fought their own traumas, they seemed proactive--Ichigo had this protection complex and Rukia had lots of flashbacks in the tower that seemed psychologically necessary.

Orihime? She's being played by Aizen too well. And that's enormously scary. I can't wait to see if and when those two meet again.

My own personal wish for the future of Bleach is to have Ichigo defeat Grimmjow thus freeing Inoue and himself up to go revive Rukia. For the purposes of the plot this would create a highly emotional scene: Rukia waking with Ichigo staring into her eyes, and so forth - all while Inoue is watching. Now, any jealousy Orihime ever felt towards Rukia was insignificant, and it made her hate herself, not Rukia. She has also developed a pretty strong friendship with Rukia over the last month, which will sadly make her more vulnerable to the sort of scene I want her to witness. Not only does she care immensely about Ichigo, she also cares immensely about Rukia.

The kind of scene I'm envisioning could very well sound the death knell, in Orihime's mind, at least, of ever truly having Ichigo. Being well acquainted with self-sacrifice and utterly estranged from self-esteem as she is, and feeling that she has nothing really for her back on Earth, Orihime would rigidly set her mind on erasing the Hou Gyoku. She of course already wants to erase the Hou Gyoku because it would be the right thing to do, but not because she feels that it is the only thing she can do. If she does feel that that's the only option left to her, then she would naturally over-commit herself to it, i.e. if I have no home to go back to I can at least die nobly and stop the evil menace, not being able to realize that Aizen wants her to do exactly that.

This would be terribly cruel to Orihime, but I find it a pretty good device to get her to awaken the Hou Gyoku and showcase Aizen's manipulative genius once again.

[stifflersthedog]

The more i think about it the more this reminds me of the Grand Fisher fight, even Orihimes shaking hands are similar. That was a personal grudge match, and this is the same imo. I dont forsee (sp?) her interfering in anyway, cause kusaki-kun wouldn't want that.

I rate shes on the very edge of a major character change. Right now she's very much "old orihime" whose leaning on Ichigo for support/protection , still standing in his shadow (literally). I think Kubo needed to show us this as a reminder before she changes, and I think she is , Orihime is seldom speechless
so she must be milling things around up there. Ichigo has completed/is completing his part of the bargain (next time i'll protect you) and he has gone to extreme lengths (hollow) to get there, when Orihime comes to realise what sort of sacrifice this is i imagine she'll realise what she has to do.

I can actually imagine something like " You were willing to go that far to achieve your goal?, thankyou kurosaki-kun, i understand now" before proceeding to go do something badass (hey i can dream)

[Ileenka]

This is unlike the GF fight. During the GF fight, Rukia understood the situation and what needed to be done. She kept herself away because she had similar past experiences to what a man must do, a fight for pride. Orihime in this case doesn't understand it at all. She did not say, Kurosaki kun, you must not die. She did not say, Kurosaki kun, I believe in you. What happened in this chapter was simply Orihime looking vacant and confused, she couldn't even react on her on except being utterly terrified. Ichigo had to tell her to put up her shield, for goodness sake. She is someone who is perfectly capable of helping the situation, and to try be a lesser burden, but right now she is nothing more than a mere burden and at the same time she just refused to budge. How is this like the GF fight? In the GF fight, Ichigo was fearless and afraid of no one, in this fight, Ichigo was terrified of himself, of his true form, and Orihime did nothing to make him feel better. Why is she just standing there?! I don't know why is she just standing there. KT had better have a good explanation coming.

[Shannon]

Kubo really does need an explanation, because I don't think it's really that necessary to have Inoue linger around that battle, unless she herself wanted to see Grimm's release.

[NeoSapien]

Orihime didn't have a problem putting up her shield to protect herself against Ceros when Grimmjow was fighting Ulquiorra, but she merely stood there in shock when he fired one at Ichigo. I wonder if that's deliberate. At any rate, instead of drawing strength from Ichigo, it seems that Orihime just gets weaker and weaker from being around him now.

The equivalent of the Grand Fisher fight for Orihime was the last Byakuya fight. Orihime's actions and body language were very similar to Rukia's in the Grand Fisher fight. This is different. It's more like a return to the Yammy fight, but with Orihime even more passive and timid.

If Ichigo wins, Orihime's faith in Ichigo will be fulfilled, but her character will not really be advanced (unless she is supposed to realize that her place is on the sidelines and be content in it). That's why I am hopi