Gin and his obsession over Rukia

[Syn]

I made that thread in my LJ a while ago, but made the entry private. And BF, where this is also located is down... So someone asked me to repost it and here I am. :p

There had been hints that Gin cared about Rukia in a very creepy way. And it all began with ch65, very early in the serie. However, it was just a hint there.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_manga-rainbleach-ch065-14.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/manga-rainbleach-ch065-14.png)

It is only a very short comment, but then again, if Gin didn't care, why would he say that? At that moment, people can think that it's only to tease Byakuya, and even I thought that. But then, Kubo offers us, in ch 145, an insight thought of Rukia about Gin. And there it becomes really, really creepy. In this chapter, as everyone knows, Gin went on his own, without following anyone's order [read: Aizen], just to mentally torture Rukia. He had absolutely no need to do that. She was going to die, following Aizen's plans.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_manga-rainbleach-ch145-05.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/manga-rainbleach-ch145-05.png) http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_manga-rainbleach-ch145-06.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/manga-rainbleach-ch145-06.png) http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_manga-rainbleach-ch145-07.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/manga-rainbleach-ch145-07.png)

This pic of snakes trying to choke Rukia is very, very creepy, and give a sick picture of Gin. The serpents represent his own hands, and his voice sounds like a serpent's, hissing at her. The imaging is very, very strong here. At that moment, the reader must understand that it's not the first time that Gin messes up with Rukia; he always had, covering himself with ordinary talks with her brother, when in fact his target was her. And, more importantly, in nearly 50 years, this opinion never changed.

Rukia is the only one who feels this way about Gin. No matter how creepy, the others simply think he's suspicious, and nothing else. So the fact that Rukia is the only one who perceives him like this is very interesting IMHO. Now the question is: does he act like this around her because she sees right through him or because it is her? Whatever it is, I think that Aizen is fully aware of this. Why?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_manga-rainbleach-ch176-21.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/manga-rainbleach-ch176-21.png)

So we have Aizen, who is very close from Gin, and possibly the one that understands him the most [after all, Gin joined the conspiration, whenever it really began]. Aizen is someone who doesn't kill blindly. He tried to kill Hinamori, but that was, from his perspective, a kind thing to do for her, since she wasn't able to live without him after he brainwashed her [and in a sense, he was right; for what we could see from Hinamori, she wasn't in the best state... or, should I say, completely broken, clinging on Aizen despite what he did].

At that point, Ichigo, Renji and Kokamura tried to attack him, but he spared their lives. They weren't useful anymore, especially Ichigo's job was done from his point of view. However, he didn't kill them. And there, in chapter 176, he states that Rukia is useless too. But what does he say then?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_manga-rainbleach-ch176-22.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/manga-rainbleach-ch176-22.png)

"Kill her, Gin" Why? Why want to kill her? She is powerless. Far from being a threat. She can live without him or Gin. Also, why not killing her by himself? Why asking Gin specifically? To me, it sounds like he knows why Gin is obsessed over Rukia, and wants to get rid of her either because it annoys him, or because he wants to offer Gin the possibility to do it himself.
However, next thing we know, is Gin's reply. "It can't be helped." Why would Gin say something like that? I think it's because he must obey to Aizen, but doesn't like the idea to kill his toy. He loves torturing Rukia, and killing her means to take away that [not so] guilty pleasure.
Moreover, when Byakuya saves Rukia from Shinsou [Gin's zanpakutou, for reminder], what does Aizen decide? He decide to kill her himself! Why? Rukia must bother him a lot, for him to decide to kill her with his own hands [well, zanpakutou, but you get my point]. The only reason that I can see is that it's tied to Gin, once again.

Luckily, we all know that in the end, Rukia survived. However, this is one of the quirkiness about the whole Gin-Rukia description that should be noticed IMHO. It is easy to brush it away, or to overlook it, but this chapter is important in that it subtely pinpoint that Gin may really have something against Rukia.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_bleach-ch250-16.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/bleach-ch250-16.png)

After that, we all know what happened. And a lot of time passed before we saw that obsession coming back, and I thought that Kubo may have forget about it. Ah, but Kubo knows his characters. And Gin didn't forget Rukia, no doubt about that.

So here we are, in chapter 250, long after that day when Gin tried to kill Rukia because Aizen's ordored it. Well, not so long for the characters [2 months at best], but for us, readers, it was like an eternity.

Ichigo, Ishida, Rukia, Renji and Chad are running in the hallways of Las Noches. Tousen "watches" them [how? just don't ask! I don't know myself XD], and Gin, pretty uninterested and bored, arrives there, just to tease him. He is quite himself, until that page; then suddenly, he bents a little, because something has caught his interest on the screen. And then, Rukia is showed. Oh, Kubo. And here I thought you forgot about his obsession over her! So, here she is, running under Gin's gaze, unaware of his evilness. And Gin makes that strange, creepy face. What does he have in mind? That's what I asked myself, and I couldn't find it.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_bleach-ch255-10.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/bleach-ch255-10.png)

Then, Kubo dropped the subject. Came back to the fights, focusing on Ichigo first. But ha, now that Gin's interest was set on Rukia again, he couldn't leave us like that, right?

So here we are, in chapter 255, finding Aizen and Gin discussing about the intruders. While Aizen is focused on Ichigo... Gin sees right through him. And tells him right away that he [Aizen] finds the whole situation amusing. Aizen and Gin obviously know each other very well; in fact, Gin exactly pointed out Aizen's feelings.
When Aizen says "so you see it that way?", as if Gin mistook him, Gin makes a curious face. As if he couldn't believe he got it wrong, and repeat his statement, because "it's written all over your face".

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_bleach-ch255-11.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/bleach-ch255-11.png)
[Notice the close up to his lips]. "Amusing, uh. I don't know why, but I do feel something resembling that feeling." Is he lying? I'd say no. He's thinking. Apparently, Aizen doesn't know the word "amusing", nor what the feeling looks like. So, he tags this unknown feeling as "amusing". After all, who else than Gin can better pinpoint what it is?
Then, he asks something really weird; "Do you think it's crazy?"
There, we have to stop a bit; Aizen thinks that Gin is uninterested in the whole situation [he wasn't wrong per se: Gin was uninterested and bored until Rukia came up in ch250]. Since Gin should be uninterested, then it means that his twisted interest in Ichigo should be tagged as "crazy".
We know that Gin is not interested in Ichigo. But then, why does Gin reply "Why would I? Amazingly, I am feeling the same thing." Automatic reply: because Gin is not thinking about Ichigo, but about Rukia. The word here is "amazingly". This means that, like Aizen first thought, this whole situation shouldn't have interested Gin. But, we know that Gin's interest have been picked back then in chapter 250. And by who? By Rukia.
So Gin is indeed speaking about Rukia in this discussion. [I had to pinpoint why I always thought he was speaking about Rukia here, because that's something that struck me when I first read it, but in the end, explaining this whole discussion is very interesting].

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/th_bleach-ch264-02.png (http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/bleach-ch264-02.png)

Finally, we got to see what Gin had in mind in chapter 264. And it is Ulquiorra who notices it. Gin modified the paths in Las Noches. However, as this scene is strictly inserted between two Rukia/Kaien scenes, I believe that he only modified Rukia's path.
Gin and Ulquiorra are both playing mind games here. Ulquiorra hates him, but stays polite, to not piss him off [I think that he is aware that Gin is above him in the hierarchy, and thus, acts accordingly]. Gin teases him, but can't care less.
When Ulquiorra notices, Gin says "it's alright" [even if he did it without Aizen's permission]. He's lying through the whole conversation though; he says: "I ain't doin' mean like that... b'sides, I jus' hate sad stories."
Which basically means: Yeah of course, I did it, but that doesn't matter; besides, I just love sad stories.
Implied: well, I'm messing up my favourite toy, I don't need your opinion.
The sad stories obviously refers to Rukia and Kaien. So yeah, basically, Gin's twisted ways reached a whole new level with this chapter [this has to be the cruelest thing he ever did to Rukia, and I think that messing up with her right before her execution was already one of the meanest things ever].

So now, who doesn't think that Gin has a creepy, unhealthy and twisted obsession over Rukia?

But the real question remains the same: WHY?
There are several theories. Because, let's face it, we have NO IDEA why Gin is so obsessed over Rukia.

Some said that it may have been tied with the fact that she was adopted in the Kuchiki family, but I beg to differ: Renji is a vice-captain, and Hinamori and Ikkaku told him that he had the same statut as Rukia. So, Gin being a captain back then, didn't have anything to envy to her position.

Another theory [that I like, I admit] is that he may have liked Hisana and resent her when she chose Byakuya. So he still tortures her sister, who is just a younger Hisana. This theory is rather good, but there is absolutely nothing to back it up. It sounds a bit like a plot bunny for a fanfic ;) Beside that, I believe that the woman he has a soft spot for is definitely Matsumoto.

My theory is way simpler than that; and it refers to what Tousen told him. That Wanderwyce didn't like him [Gin] because he wasn't pure [and, by extension, that he liked him, Tousen, because he was pure]. Then Gin shrugs it off, asking that what was pure in this child was still to be discovered. But then I thought; Rukia has the most beautiful zanpakutou, that is known. Sodeno Shirayuki, all pure white. Which means that, to possess her, you have to have the purest, the most beautiful soul [because we know that zanpakutous and their owners are alike]. And if Gin, being evil and creepy and [etc], simply couldn't stand that? He meets Rukia, and instantly understand how pure and untainted she is; what if, all his attempts were to taint her soul? Simply because she is too pure for him? It would be like a fascination from Gin's part; something he can't stand, but can't be helped but be attracted to [in his own way].

What do you guys think about it? :)

[Guildenstern]

Finally, somebody else who talks about this. >_< Thank you for posting this, Syn.

I really have to hand it to you, I never noticed how odd it was that Aizen would be so....decided in his desire to kill Rukia. Considering his restraint in killing people previously, you're right, it's really odd. I can't decide if it's Aizen wanting to curtail Gin's 'little hobby' or something having to do with Rukia herself however.

Gin...certainly has it out for Rukia in an extreme way. I can't decide if he wants her dead or wants her alive but suffering. He seems adverse to killing her but at the same time didn't hesistate when Aizen told him to kill her. (But you have to wonder if the strike he gave her would have killed her a la Hinamori in a strange way.) Most of his actions seem to be directed at making Rukia suffer in an very psychological way. He knows Rukia couldn't be brought low by physical hurt, but mental? Oh yeah. >.>

The impression I always got from Rukia's extreme reaction to him is kind of odd. Something about him sets her off, and it's an feeling she just can't shake. Gin doesn't affect other people the same way he seems to affect Rukia. (Ulquiorra and Wanderweiss certainly don't feel comfortable around him either, but not to the extreme that Rukia does.) On the same token Gin has never expressed the level of malice that you see in his interactions with Rukia to others, but his fight with Hitsugaya is the closest I've seen yet to it. He doesn't like Hitsugaya very much either. (Jealous?! D:)

My favourite pet theory as to Rukia's extreme aversion to Gin is that she's met him before and didn't like it(extreme understatement XD), but doesn't remember it. As to why Gin has this kind of attitude towards Rukia, I really can't guess. It seems unlikely that Gin hates her just because she is 'pure' in soul or heart simply because....the issues he has with her seem awfully personal for it to come from such an abstract source.

<roomate hijack>My roommate's crack theory regarding Gin and Rukia is that he may not dislike her exactly (as we've seen what happens when he actively dislikes someone, i.e Hitsugaya, but we can't be sure what would happen if she offered the same kind of resistance to him that Hitsugaya does), but that he may be manipulating her into some kind of action. Fear is a powerful motivator, and if he knows something about Rukia that no one else does, he may be trying to push her to some kind of realization. His machinations led her to kill an Espada, though we still don't know how she's doing after that. My roommate pointed out that in a sick kind of way, he might have been telling the truth about hating sad stories: Rukia can't be manipulated by the 9th Espada anymore. She faced the guilt she still carried about Kaien's death and claimed a victory, and that was the most decisive fight we'd ever seen her in. My roommate thinks that Gin might "project" onto people his insecurities about himself, and that Rukia represents his fears--the comment to her on the bridge about being afraid to die when you fear for the safety of others hearkens back to what was said earlier about Gin being one of two captains who were afraid to die. If he holds her in contempt as something of a martyr figure who consistently puts the wishes of others above her own and is willing to sacrifice herself, his actions might be geared toward forcing her into taking power for herself, and an unconscious effort to purge his own "weakness" through her (my roommate's theory being that almost every character Gin interacts with reflects some facet of his own psyche that he either hates or hides).</roommate hijack>

Things like this are what make clear that Rukia's backstory is -far- from explained and it makes me -really- look forward to seeing what Kubo's got up his sleeve for her later on.

Syn, lets make the "Big Post of Weird Stuff About Rukia" for ultimate justice. >_<b

[StrawberryLover]

Wow, you two are amazing. I have never and wld have never noticed that, thanks for posting it.

[Unicorn]

(my roommate's theory being that almost every character Gin interacts with reflects some facet of his own psyche that he either hates or hides).

That is a very fascinating theory from your roommate, Guildenstern. *reps*. I've never considered it this way before, and yet, it is very feasible. *goes off to consider characters + facets of personality*

I also like the theory of Gin forcing Rukia to confront Kaien-Aroniro (sp?) simply so she can have closure on her "omg I killed Kaien" guilt. Cruel, true... but brutally effective, IMHO.

I'm still not entirely sure why Gin seems to delight in mentally toying with Rukia, so can't provide comments to Syn's excellent analysis. Look forward to more theories!

[Primera Espada]

I like the notion that Gin is trying to build Rukia up, like Aizen is trying to build Ichigo up.

Evidence:

Gin tries to get Byakuya to save Rukia
Gin tries to instill the will to live on Rukia before the execution
Gin uses one of the slowest methods possible to kill Rukia, possibly waiting for Byakuya to intervene. His mouth is suspiciously covered. He is sad once he retracts shinsou, seeing Aizen going to take care of it himself (ensuring both rukia and byakuya's deaths)
Gin sees that Rukia is heading towards the Tres Cifras. Remember, the Tres Cifras are comprised entirely of Ajuucas (the "espada are leaders" speach indicates that they are not typically gillian, or soldier class, and thus, are more intelligent) and instead manipulates the cooridoor to allow Rukia to face the opponent she is most likely to win against.

case in point.

Recall that Chad, Ishida, and Ichigo all allready had met (or were moments from meeting) tres cifras. We know there are 7 other tres cifras, so why did Rukia (and Renji for that matter) just HAPPEN to find an espada? And how come she happens to be fighting the #9 espada, who happens to have the skillset of her old mentor, who she knows the moves of in and out. Convenient that she is completely prepared for his attacks, and while he's stronger than her, she's capable of surviving for this reason. On top of that, unlike the espada she faces, she's grown in abilities. He may have a lot of power, but, being a gillian, he was stupid. Ultimately, he put himself in a vulnerable position, and Rukia capitalized on it. Do you think Renji would have faired as well? Maybe so, but then again, there would have been no toying with Renji. There would have been no reason for Arroniero to go easy, and try to play a mind game with Renji. It would have been an all out fight right from the start. And what if Rukia had faced Szayel? It would have been disasterous for her. Facing his entire fraccion, and then the chance that he had data on her due to her fighting D Roy, and again fighting Grimmjow.

Not to mention, this fight also would allow Rukia to have more determination. Finally being able to put things to rest with Kaien. Sure, she had some resolution and all before, but now, she truly understands what Kaien *could* have been had she not made the decision she did. Now she understands why *she* had to do it as well.

Had Rukia faced, let's say... arrancar 101, she might very well have lost. A strong opponent, who was more intelligent than arroniero, and one who's moves she knew nothing about.

To me, I think Gin is setting up Rukia to potentially take out Aizen. I think that's been his plan all along. I am suspicious that Gin somehow knew the hou gyoku was in Rukia all that time, and so was very interested in seeing her develop.

Think about it, Rukia's power has gone pretty much unnoticed. However, we clearly see that it's *always* been high, and in fact, given her age, she's pretty powerful now. Her ice type zanpakuto is shaping up to be on par with Hitsugaya's, making her inevitable bankai fearful. However, unlike Hitsugaya, she is much more calm and collected in battle (hitsu is so bipolar it hurts) and her will to live is so strong.

Rukia will end up being *very* powerful, and her, combined with Ichigo, will put a stop to the Aizen madness that Gin has been putting up with for years ;)

[Syn]

Thank you for posting Guildenstern, it was truly interesting. But in the end, I still come back to the feeling he inspires to Rukia; I think that it's so instinctive, up to this point that one of the root point of their relationship is the fascination/rejection they feel for each other. He doesn't inspire fear because he loves to torture her, but he tortures her because of what they are.
And I think it annoys Gin to be fascinated by her; that may be another point that makes him torture her; because he can't help it and hates it at the same time. The theory of your roomate comes into play here, and that's very interesting; but Rukia, since the SS arc, always grew stronger and each time she was brought down by him (right before the Soukyoku). Their personalities are extrem opposites; him being very selfish and her being ready to die for others. I think that it's really because of how they are each other that Gin may reflect his fears on her. But how would he have known that from Rukia beforehand? It's not like something happened that made everyone know about it. So I think he might have the same fascination at first, like she had the rejection.

Mmh, I don't think I make a lot of sense, since I just woke up -_-' sorry lol XD

Edit @Primera Espada: I don't know, I think that's putting things a bit far because I don't believe that Gin is a good guy in the end (which is what your theory would expect). He manipulated the corridors so that she meet up with Aaro; we know however that it was one of the worst battles she had to fight, since it was a mental wreck for her. I'm pretty sure that Gin did enjoy to see her tortured like this (maybe he even asked Aaro to torture her like he did...).
I think that the set up for Rukia is Gin himself, not Aizen. Because she is tied with him strongly, I can see that happening (a lot more than the Aizen - Ichigo fight actually).

[Guildenstern]

^_^v This is an awesome thread.

Syn:But how would he have known that from Rukia beforehand? It's not like something happened that made everyone know about it. So I think he might have the same fascination at first, like she had the rejection.

IIRC me and Roomie came up with the 'Gin and Rukia must have met previously' thread at like 1 AM after like 5 sodas each, but bear with me. XD It became my pet theory because we know so little about Rukia's backstory and past; given her extreme reaction to Gin coupled with her obvious cluelessness about major events in her own past (i.e. hougyoku- she certainly didn't remember getting that whenever she was a kid or whenever she got it) that made me suspicious about the whole Gin/Rukia dynamic. All we can do is speculate at this point as to what the issue is, but it's an idea with some merit. In fact, all these theories have merit. Let's squish them all together and make one huuuuge monster theory! >:O

....So, yeah, Kubo needs to hurry up and tell us what the deal is with Rukia. >_<;

[Syn]

I thought about it (Gin and Rukia meeting while she was a baby or so little that she doesn't remember), but it makes little to no sense so I dropped the idea XD
Because we know that he was with Matsu probably up until they entered the Academy. And when Rukia was a little child, it's highly unlikely that she showed how she truly was to Gin (even though that part of her past does interest me ^^').
Hence my reply XD

[Ros]

Hi, Guildenstern's roommate here, I got my own account so I don't have to keep hijacking her posts. XD This is a really interesting thread and I'm hoping we see more fodder for this kind of discussion in the manga soon.

I want to say before I start running off at the mouth that I don't see Gin as being secretly good (that is, I don't see it as possible that he was working for Soul Society all along, or anything like that), which I wanted to clarify in regard to the idea that he might want to "push" Rukia in some way. I do think there's a lot of merit to the idea that he's simultaneously repulsed and fascinated by Rukia as something that's totally at odds with what he himself is, because just through Rukia's reaction to him there seems to be something definitely wrong with Gin. While he occasionally puts other people's hackles up, Rukia, who is normally a very forgiving person who tends to downplay the faults of others and magnify her own, is outright repulsed by him, which to me is a major red flag that, yeah, he really is as bad as he seems, and possibly worse. We just don't know why (and I do think there is a why).

I agree with Syn's point in the OP that Rukia's purity of spirit may be something that he can't stand but can't keep away from, and I think she makes him angry. Not quite in the way Hitsugaya does, since Hitsugaya is someone of equal social power ect. that he can't toy with the way he can Rukia. But I think he does what he does to a certain extent because she lets him.

Here is where I veer off into crack territory, so if it doesn't make sense please feel free to club me over the head and throw me into the sea. o..ov I know Guildenstern brought up my theory about Gin projecting his issues onto other people, so I'm going to start with this quote from Syn: And I think it annoys Gin to be fascinated by her; that may be another point that makes him torture her; because he can't help it and hates it at the same time. The theory of your roomate comes into play here, and that's very interesting; but Rukia, since the SS arc, always grew stronger and each time she was brought down by him (right before the Soukyoku). Their personalities are extrem opposites; him being very selfish and her being ready to die for others. I think that it's really because of how they are each other that Gin may reflect his fears on her.
I see Gin as a very angry character. I don't think he sees situations the way a normal person would, and I think his rationalizations for picking on the people he does are probably pretty twisted. On the other hand, we've seen a sympathetic side of him through Matsumoto's eyes, and Matsumoto is probably one of the most emotionally intelligent people in the series; she's not the kind of character who allows her heart to lead her head, and she has a pretty realistic view of the world. So I take her regard for Gin at face value and assume he is, on some level, a person someone like her could be strongly attached to. Kira is another person who views Gin in a sympathetic light, but his personality is almost opposite to Matsumoto--he's insecure, self-punishing, defeatist, and weak willed (and I love him, please don't get me wrong). Kira was a target for Gin, while Matsumoto wasn't, and I don't think it can be accounted for by his feelings for her. If Matsumoto weren't as strong as she is, I don't think he would feel any kinship toward her. Kira's relationship with Gin is compared a lot to Aizen's relationship with Hinamori, but the difference is that Gin didn't break Kira. He didn't even try to--he didn't even have to. Kira let himself be shoved into place. And I swear I'm getting back on topic.

Rukia is by no means a weak character. She'll move mountains for anyone she cares about, and she has immense dignity and strength in just about any situation in which she's tested. But her character weakness, to me, lies in that she won't use that strength for herself. If she's not tested, she stagnates. Her responsibility to Renji and the other kids she ran with brought out the best in her, then Kaien did, then Ichigo and the others. When she was adopted by Byakuya, she was insecure in her skill and her place in the Gotei 13 until Kaien helped her reach higher; when Kaien died she seems to have stayed pretty much at that level until she needed to work to improve--for someone else's sake. Rukia doesn't have the need for power for power's sake, and she won't reach for it to better herself; to her, she alone isn't worth the effort.

I think Gin at one point was probably a worthwhile human being. My off-the-wall theory is that he's a frustrated idealist, and that pretty much every time he's put any faith in human nature he's probably been proved wrong until he eventually became corrupt himself (I have a ton of ideas about what exactly is wrong with him, and not all of them are psychological, but this post is long and off-topic enough as it is x__X). Especially since he's probably been under Aizen's influence for quite a while. When I say that he picks on Rukia because she lets him, I think he's pinpointed the fact that she won't stand up for herself, but she'll sacrifice for others without a second thought, and it disgusts him. She really has gotten stronger from every encounter she's had with him, because I think every time he's gone for her throat it's been calculated to throw in her face what he sees as being "wrong" with her. Again, he never tried to break Kira the way Aizen tried to break Hinamori; Kira's personality is such that he let himself be led, and Gin was actually openly disdainful of him. From that perspective, why not treat a person exactly as they treat themselves? Why not strike at their weak points, when they leave them wide open? Kira got used and thrown aside, and Gin left him with no illusions that he'd done anything to prevent it.

In her encounter with Gin prior to the execution, he struck at exactly what she feared the most. She could do nothing to help her friends, she blamed herself for the danger they were in, and she feared her own death. When he manipulated the corridors so that she met up with Arroenero, she was forced to confront the thing she feared the most again: first, that Kaien really did blame her for his death, and then that she hadn't really saved him at all by killing him. Both times she came to terms with her fear and cemented her resolve, standing pretty much alone. With nothing in immediate danger that she could protect but herself and her own peace of mind, she did what she had to do.

I think Gin, in a twisted way, sees in her what he isn't, or what he lost, and that he both hates it and knows it's something he's missing himself. I don't think he's concerned for her for her sake, but I do think his fixation on her is equal parts "I pick on her because she makes it so easy," and the contradictory wanting her to fall as far as he has/wake up and realize she's defeating herself before she falls as far as he has. I also really think that there's something we haven't been told about either of them that'll explain a lot of why she's considered "pure" and he's anathema to her and anyone else designated "pure in spirit," but I've gone far enough into fanfic territory with this post as it is. XD

The theory that the two of them met at some point before stemmed mostly from, as Guildenstern said, late night Bleach discussion and our speculation on where Gin went when he left Matsumoto/what Rukia was doing before she met up with Renji and their gang. Matsumoto said at one point that when they were together Gin was constantly taking off, and wouldn't tell her where he'd been, which leads me to think he was up to a lot of stuff even then that only he, probably Aizen, and possibly any one of the characters who would have been alive at that time and whose motives are still unclear like Urahara would know about. We still don't know who picked up Rukia when Hisana left her, and I tend to think it was someone who was waiting for a chance to get her like Urahara . But our favorite theories have always been in the "Gin's playing everyone and has something to do with Urahara," "Gin knows more/is way more dangerous than Aizen" and "Rukia ended up with the Hougyoku specifically because her purity is an actual physical/spiritual thing that allowed her to contain it" camps. XD

Sorry for letting this post run on to infinity, and thank you for letting me come in and discuss! (_ _)/ It's fun to see everyone's theories on this. o..o

[Syn]

Wahh, what an interesting post. I'll try to make as much sense as you did lol! XD

Hi, Guildenstern's roommate here, I got my own account so I don't have to keep hijacking her posts. XD This is a really interesting thread and I'm hoping we see more fodder for this kind of discussion in the manga soon.
You're welcome, I'm glad people appreciate this thread :) It's already old but luckily, there was no more Gin/Rukia interaction so I could post it without changing anything XD

I want to say before I start running off at the mouth that I don't see Gin as being secretly good (that is, I don't see it as possible that he was working for Soul Society all along, or anything like that), which I wanted to clarify in regard to the idea that he might want to "push" Rukia in some way. [...]
Ahah, I totally agree with this. To me, Rukia's reaction is very important because there is no one else that makes her shiver like that. She is truly afraid of him and that's because of what/how he truly is, something that he tries to hide behind his grin and his closed eyes.

I see Gin as a very angry character. I don't think he sees situations the way a normal person would, and I think his rationalizations for picking on the people he does are probably pretty twisted. On the other hand, we've seen a sympathetic side of him through Matsumoto's eyes, and Matsumoto is probably one of the most emotionally intelligent people in the series; she's not the kind of character who allows her heart to lead her head, and she has a pretty realistic view of the world. So I take her regard for Gin at face value and assume he is, on some level, a person someone like her could be strongly attached to. Kira is another person who views Gin in a sympathetic light, but his personality is almost opposite to Matsumoto--he's insecure, self-punishing, defeatist, and weak willed (and I love him, please don't get me wrong). Kira was a target for Gin, while Matsumoto wasn't, and I don't think it can be accounted for by his feelings for her. If Matsumoto weren't as strong as she is, I don't think he would feel any kinship toward her. Kira's relationship with Gin is compared a lot to Aizen's relationship with Hinamori, but the difference is that Gin didn't break Kira. He didn't even try to--he didn't even have to. Kira let himself be shoved into place.
I always thought that Matsu could fall in love with him because he had a soft spot for her and thus never treated her the way he could treat others. He did a lot for her, probably because he needed someone whom he could grow attached to (a feeling of being home?). He never fell in love with her though (and that's something he sort of yearned for I think, to fall in love with her; it just didn't happen), but the attachment he has towards her is real. I guess she gives him the needed feeling of 'like'.
Kira is another story altogether, as he allowed Gin to manipulate him and for Gin it was almost too easy.
Gin as an angry character? That's an interesting point of view, I'd awnt to know why you see him like this. I see him as someone who likes to toy with others' minds because he's mostly bored. But his interest always perks up for Rukia (more than for anyone else).

Rukia is by no means a weak character. She'll move mountains for anyone she cares about, and she has immense dignity and strength in just about any situation in which she's tested. But her character weakness, to me, lies in that she won't use that strength for herself. [...] Rukia doesn't have the need for power for power's sake, and she won't reach for it to better herself; to her, she alone isn't worth the effort.
I agree, Rukia is able to do so much, as long as it's for others. She won't hold grudges or whatsoever. She doesn't feel the need to have the power by herself (she trained for the Kuchiki family's name, etc; I also have my pet theory that because she didn't seek power and thought she was just going to stay with Renji, she didn't bother as much as Renji with her examination entrance in the Academy). This is part of her weakness, but also of her strength because it's tied to her purity and her unselfishness.

I think Gin at one point was probably a worthwhile human being. My off-the-wall theory is that he's a frustrated idealist, and that pretty much every time he's put any faith in human nature he's probably been proved wrong until he eventually became corrupt himself (I have a ton of ideas about what exactly is wrong with him, and not all of them are psychological, but this post is long and off-topic enough as it is x__X). [...]
Gin as a frustrated idealist makes me smile. Though it's an appealing theory (I can see where you want to go with that theory), I think there has always been something dubious with Gin, even when he was younger. I felt that he helped Ran not for her but already mainly for him. I see him as a very selfish character since the very beginning. He does things because they bring something to him; he helped Matsu because it gave him a feeling of being worthwhile. He toyed with Kira because it was funny for him. He helps Aizen for something specific too, but I can't pinpoint what as long as Kubo doesn't unveil it (it's a mystery why Gin bothered to join Aizen's side). With Rukia, his repulsion/fascination makes him toy with her (and he probably enjoys seeing her tortured). It is something different because while with Kira he could have done nothing (and Kira would have done it himself), he seeks Rukia (who would rather stay away from him) just to try to break her down. It's like a race between the two and the one standing up at the end is the winner; expect he's the only one aware of this 'competition'.

In her encounter with Gin prior to the execution, he struck at exactly what she feared the most. [...]
I think it must irritate Gin somewhere; because while he had the upper hand prior to Bleach's storyline, since then, every time he tried to crush her down, she ended up strengthen up with a lot of grace and determination. It must be something that Gin doesn't get, how she does that. Probably because he feels that he can't achieve the same and doesn't want to be confronted to his own fears (death?).

I think Gin, in a twisted way, sees in her what he isn't, or what he lost, and that he both hates it and knows it's something he's missing himself. [...]
Yes, I think that Rukia highlights everything Gin isn't, and that annoys him (to say the least). His need to crush her down comes from that; because if she's crushed down, then he wouldn't have to look at what he isn't anymore.

The theory that the two of them met at some point before stemmed mostly from, as Guildenstern said, late night Bleach discussion and our speculation on where Gin went when he left Matsumoto/what Rukia was doing before she met up with Renji and their gang. Matsumoto said at one point that when they were together Gin was constantly taking off, and wouldn't tell her where he'd been, which leads me to think he was up to a lot of stuff even then that only he, probably Aizen, and possibly any one of the characters who would have been alive at that time and whose motives are still unclear like Urahara would know about. We still don't know who picked up Rukia when Hisana left her, and I tend to think it was someone who was waiting for a chance to get her like Urahara . But our favorite theories have always been in the "Gin's playing everyone and has something to do with Urahara," "Gin knows more/is way more dangerous than Aizen" and "Rukia ended up with the Hougyoku specifically because her purity is an actual physical/spiritual thing that allowed her to contain it" camps. XD
Ahah, I don't think it has to do with Rukia but more with Aizen already (when Gin was constantly going away) XD
I think the why Urahara chose Rukia is also important and it's tied with her more than anything else, but we can't be sure until he spills it out ;) damn that guy XD he knows too many secrets!

Thank you for that insightful post. It made me think a bit more about Gin and his character ^^

[Geta Boshi]

There is a good reason why Aizen does not take out Renji at once actually Aizen respects Renji as he is the only among 3 (Kira/momo) who saw through his plans or sensed something also Kira and Momo were made fukus with Aizen's assistance . Renji rose on his own merits after he was discarded/transferred to division 11

Though Gin is a sadist he never hurt his own subordinates or people that had a past with him . Some shades of black n whites to his chracter

* ShiroVsGin : He Grudgingly withdrew after Rangiku stepped . Though he badly wanted to get back at Shiro

* Gin Being Caught: He was delighted that he was caught by Rangiku also he says only if you held onto to me a little longer

* Aizen did not think twice before taking out his subordinate but Gin never harmed Kira

[ChireMae]

Thanks Syn for posting the interesting thread. I am trying to think of a different angle to the whole Gin-Rukia relations (and may have been influenced by recent re-reading of ‘Silence of the Lamb’ )

Anyway, I think Gin thinks himself as being superior than most of the shinigami and with good reason. For one, he is involves in one of the greatest conspiracy and no one, saves the selected few knows about it.

More importantly to Gin is his successful deception, Gin presents an image of a harmless, somewhat cowardly (albeit creepy) character and it’s an image that manage to fool all of SS even the all wise Yamamoto. The two exceptions being his mentor Aizen, who is a bigger deceiver than Gin himself and the oung shinigami Rukia.

As mentioned before, Rukia’s reaction towards Gin is extreme, it’s like she seen through the harmless demeanor, to the darkness inside. Gin is aware of her reactions and I think this is what attracted her to his attention – ‘Here is a young girl that can see me the way I really am, she may be someone special and thus worthy of my attention.’ Whether she really sees him the way he is debatable but Gin believes that she does.

I also think it was Byakuya more than Hisana that has an impact on Gin. I don’t think that Hisana, whose personality is not unlike Momo’s is the type that he goes for, Byakuya on the other hand symbolizes the epitome of ‘the-it-shinigami’. He is good looking, wealthy, youngest head of the most distinguished noble houses, and a very powerful captain. Other shinigamis look up to him with awe and respect. I think the beef that Gin has with him stems from the fact that Byakuya generally ignores him. To Gin insults would have been better because that at least indicates that his existence was noticed but to be treated with indifference from the Prince of SS signifies to Gin that he is a nobody, one who is not worth the notice of the Great Kuchiki Byakuya. On top of that, of all the stray kids that makes it the academy, Byakuya has to choose Rukia as being worthy to be adopted into the Kuchiki family.

Also, going back to the stray kids (for this purpose I am refereeing to Gin-Matsumoto, Renji-Rukia and to lesser degree Momo-Hitsugaya) five out the six made it good at Gotei 13, achieving the ranks of Captain/Vice Captain on their own merits. Rukia gets in the easy way through her noble connections. At this point her situation is something to be sneered and look down at. Unfortunately Rukia has to go and proves herself, not only did she learns the name of her zanpaktou, she gains two dances to her shikai (most shinigami shown so far have seems to have one shikai move) and she has to possess the most beautiful zanpaktou of all Soul Society. What she achieved just reaffirms to Gin of her worthiness.

About Matsumoto I agree that Gin cares for her the most, that said, I also agree that he is not ‘in love’ with her. I wonder if he feels somewhat disappointed in her. I think Matsumoto probably sense that all is not right with Gin but lets sentimental feelings gets in the way of admitting it. I think he is also disappointed that with her party girl ways, that she doesn’t rise above stigma of her ratcheted childhood the way Rukia did. She assumes the role of Lady Kuchiki Rukia almost effortlessly.

Hitsugaya, he hates not only due to Matsumoto’s devotion to him but also because of the admiration he gets for being a capable prodigy captain. Hitsugaya’s minus point was the fact he is also a cute chibi lad and that means he doesn’t always get the respects due his position.

Regarding Renji, I think the reason why Aizen ‘discarded’ him is because he sensed that Renji cannot be controlled or manipulated as easily as the other two and most importantly Renji’s first loyalty lies elsewhere (towards Rukia) and it is not a bond that could easily be broken.

Going back to the topic, the subsequent event that happened to Rukia, the fact the Hyogoku was placed inside her, that Ichigo came all the way to rescue her, Renji, Captain Ukitake and others rebelled directly or indirectly to her cause only re affirms that she is special and worthy of attention of a superior being like him whether it is as a powerful adversary or (heaven forbid) a worthy consort.

If you make it this far, I thank you for reading. I hope its not too crappy and that there’s one or two points that makes it makes it worth your while. p.s. Feel free to poke holes in my theories :)

[Syn]

As I said already, I don't believe that Gin's bad habit with Rukia has anything to do with Byakuya. I thought about it (I really did), but it just doesn't make sense. Gin already has a better situation than Rukia; he comes to talk to Byakuya only to have his ways with Rukia, not with the brother.

I never thought once that he hated Hitsu. To me, it's like he was having fun while fighting with him lol.

Renji was discarded because of his wild character, that didn't fit with Aizen's plans. He couldn't use and manipulate him, so he threw him away; Rukia has nothing to do with it. How could he guess their relationship, when they never talk in the first place?

Gin doesn't harm physically, but he likes to play twisted games. His most favourite prey is Rukia and I think that Kubo hinted more than once that it had to do with their nature rather than their position etc. Gin doesn't aknowledge her bond with the others (Ichigo, Renji). He doesn't, because he doesn't care about them and what they think. It's what he thinks that matters and Rukia alone is enough to catch his attention.

[ChireMae]

Aww shot, there goes my potential career as a profiler :D To ne honest, I actually read your LJ entry on Gin-Rukia early and do agree with most of points that you brought up, but I was trying to find a different angle to the relations and see if my theories would fly or in your case, not. ;) I wasn't really focusing on 'position' as much as trying to get into his pysche, I guess I projected too much of a serial killer pysche into Gin.

However on Aizen-Renji, during the final confrontation of the SS arc, didnt Aizen mentioned something about 'understanding how Renji felt when he refused to let go of Rukia?' I am not suprise if Aizen did know about Renji-Rukia relations, he kinda strikes me as the type to be thorough in gathering his information. Of course I might be projecting yet another serial killer pysche, though this time on Aizen ;)

[NeoSapien]

Aww shot, there goes my potential career as a profiler :D To ne honest, I actually read your LJ entry on Gin-Rukia early and do agree with most of points that you brought up, but I was trying to find a different angle to the relations and see if my theories would fly or in your case, not. ;) I wasn't really focusing on 'position' as much as trying to get into his pysche, I guess I projected too much of a serial killer pysche into Gin.

However on Aizen-Renji, during the final confrontation of the SS arc, didnt Aizen mentioned something about 'understanding how Renji felt when he refused to let go of Rukia?' I am not suprise if Aizen did know about Renji-Rukia relations, he kinda strikes me as the type to be thorough in gathering his information. Of course I might be projecting yet another serial killer pysche, though this time on Aizen ;)

Aizen was just being a sadist when he said that he "understood how Renji felt," because he then offered to cut off Renji's arms to let him continue holding Rukia.

[Syn]

Mmh, no, Aizen only mentioned that it was unfortunate (because he had to kill him to take Rukia?). I don't think Aizen ever had a clue about their relationship and anyway, they weren't talking to each other for 40 years. Usually, you don't think anyone has a strong bond with another when there is only silence during 40 years.

Edit: my bad, it was the chapter right before XD so yeah; I go with Neo on that one. Aizen was just being the evil one he usually is o___O

[ChireMae]

Shaking head in dismay and amusement, looks like I gain another hole. This is my first attempt at analysing Bleach, got to say I enjoy it, holes and all. Thank you all :D Anyway, I am looking forward to the next Gin-Rukia encounter, wonder whether he will be the one to find and patch her up -- or more aptly to patch her up a bit and torments her a lot :eek:

[Axie]

Interesting! I never noticed. If anything, Gin wants to see Rukia emotionally shattered.

...but for god knows what reason! Gin is one complicated character, from his relationship (not nessessarily romantic) with Matsumoto... to his passion for seeing others' break.

Gin bewilders me sometimes. If anyone were to betray Aizen, it would be Gin.. and of coarse Grimm. Gin's that type you just can't read.

It's obvious, from the chapters you pointed out, that Gin is in some way fascinated with Rukia. Creepy or not. I think he really would love to see Rukia lose her sanity.

Nice catch. :3

[Ros]

I'm awake! I swear! \(@____@)/

Gin as an angry character? That's an interesting point of view, I'd awnt to know why you see him like this. I see him as someone who likes to toy with others' minds because he's mostly bored. But his interest always perks up for Rukia (more than for anyone else).

My idea on this kind of hinges on his fight with Hitsugaya mostly. I know you said up above that you never thought that he hated Hitsugaya during the fight with him; I disagree on that point, I think his fight with Hitsugaya was written at least partially to show that Gin's bored, laid-back appearance is a mask for his actual nature. The fight with Hitsugaya was I think the first time we ever got a look at Gin as I think he truly is--in that fight he was ruthless and serious as death, cutting at another person with a true intent to kill. He was enjoying the fight with him not because he was bored, I think, but because he was gunning for the chance to hurt Hitsugaya and had been for a long time. Gin does, I think, hate Hitsugaya. He loses control of his temper in that scene in a way that he hadn't done before or since, and he lets his mask drop. He comes off to me as very bitter in the way he taunts him (the "Oh that's just as expected of Hitsugaya Toushirou" stuff), and he really didn't fight the way you'd think one captain would duel another, between trying to block his line of vision during the fight and his strike at Hinamori when Hitsugaya cornered him. That last was really to me the strongest indication that the fight was personal to Gin aside from his attitude in general seeming raw. He was out to destroy Hitsugaya there, not just by killing someone he cared about, person he had come to try to save, but by doing it in such a way that Hitsugaya would think for the rest of his life, If only I hadn't dodged. It was crueler and more done out of sheer spite than even anything he'd ever done to Rukia, because Gin's attacks on Rukia were all things that she had the option of overcoming (in the sense that I think he attacks people in such a way that he can put the blame for the results on them). Gin put Hitsugaya in a situation he had no chance of avoiding or changing, and he would have killed Hinamori if Matsumoto hadn't stepped between them.

That was the first thing that made Gin seem angry to me, just because his attitude toward him seemed like a kid with a chip on his shoulder being jealous of another kid who's better liked. And I do think that emotionally Gin is very much a child, and that he sees Hitsugaya as a threat to his particular sphere of influence (Matsumoto). Matsumoto is his friend, she's probably the closest thing he has to family, and actually his reaction to Hitsugaya reminded me very much of Renji's initial reaction to Ichigo. Kind of a "Why does she like you, what right do you have to be her friend, what makes you so cool" kind of thing. Which actually is pretty understandable for kids who grew up under the constant threat of losing the people most important to them. In this case those people aren't just maybe going away, but choosing someone else, and...like I said, I think Gin is still emotionally stuck at adolescence in a lot of ways, and it accounts for him seeing Hitsugaya as a rival. Not just where Matsumoto is concerned, but because Hitsugaya is the "cool kid." XD

I think Gin is very focused in actuality, and what look like random spiteful acts because he's bored or just likes to pick on people have a purpose behind them. I just couldn't tell you what that is (I could speculate, but I'm off in left field already again. When you look this cool --> :cool: you don't need to be on-topic! D: ).

About Matsumoto I agree that Gin cares for her the most, that said, I also agree that he is not ‘in love’ with her. I wonder if he feels somewhat disappointed in her. I think Matsumoto probably sense that all is not right with Gin but lets sentimental feelings gets in the way of admitting it. I think he is also disappointed that with her party girl ways, that she doesn’t rise above stigma of her ratcheted childhood the way Rukia did. She assumes the role of Lady Kuchiki Rukia almost effortlessly.

I don't think Matsumoto does let sentimental feelings get in the way of admitting anything about Gin, but I think she almost wishes she could. She tries to question whether or not he'd really do everything that it seems that he's done, but she doesn't really seem surprised that he did them; for someone who knows him so well, I'd be really shocked if she didn't know the kind of things he's capable of. Matsumoto isn't a sentimental person, and I think it's her who is disappointed in him. She's risen a lot more above the stigma of her childhood than he has, by being a loyal and dedicated member of the Gotei 13 who serves her captain because she respects him and what he stands for. Gin used his position to betray Soul Society, and really seems to have had no other use for it. People respect Matsumoto, they're friends with her, she's open and friendly and she gets drunk with the guys and they all know she has their back. People fear Gin and he makes them uncomfortable, unless you're Kenpachi and have no fear. D: Gin I think knows that he's disappointed her, which is why he said he was sorry. He really is, I think. He's sorry he made her upset, but not sorry he did what he did. <_<;;

Rukia actually had kind of a rough time making the transition to the Kuchiki household. The other shinigami IIRC made some comments about her getting her position through the influence of her brother (can't remember if it was anime only) and some of them call her "Princess" I think as kind of a joke; they all know she's a kid from Rukongai and there was probably a lot of snickering and comments about her rise in station from people to whom she was a peer before (even though she was too introverted to associate with them much). She doesn't come off well as "Lady Kuchiki" I think. The flashbacks of her walking beside (and very slightly behind) Byakuya show her discomfort and ill ease in the role, and that was I think a lot of why Gin went out of his way to stop Byakuya when she was out with him. Part of it was probably because he had simple access to her there in a place where she couldn't get away without appearing rude or just plain bizarre for running from a captain, but I think it was also because he was able to trap her in a position that was already misery for her and make it 1000 times worse just by his presence. .__.

Eeek, it's 10pm, I need to stop babbling. (/x____x)/

[yahoosoda]

Interesting posts everyone.

After reading most of what was written, let me throw in my short theory into the fray. Is it possible that Gin had something to do with Rukia's death in the human world? Perhaps he may not have killed her but they met at that point causing some kind of irrational fear or residual memory in the part of Rukia?

[sagittarius19]

@yahoosoda- oh this is an interesting theory. I remember when rukia was about to go to the human world, was it hanatarou? I don't remember anyway they were sort of calming her, saying it was easy and one was surprised because she still couldn't remember what it was like being assigned to the human world. My memory's hazy but it could tie up with your theory.

[Cara]

Wow, you people are amazing for being able to think all these theories up. I never actually thought about it. @.@

To me, the theory that Gin can't stand Rukia because she is pure is the one I most like, because Gin is the most impure character I can think of (even moreso than Aizen, because Aizen believes himself to be completely just, whereas Gin is aware of his badness, and aknowledges that what he does is bad.) and Rukia is the most pure character I can think of (even moreso than Orihime, I think because Rukia is noble and selfless even as she aknowledges the bad in the world. I think Orihime is just very innocent, and I don't think they are the same thing even though they often go together.), so naturally they are polar opposites.

What I hope is that Gin didn't go and kidnap Rukia for whatever purposes. I hope someone comes to save the whole Ichi-group, like Isshin. I think there would be no better way for Ichio to find out his daddy is a shinigami.

[Jhaxe]

I love yer theory. One of the things I like most about Gin is that he acknowledges things about himself that no other 'bad guy' does. Unlike Aizen and Tousen, Gin actually acknowledges the fact that what he does he does is corrupt, yet he does it anyway, because he WANTS to, and doesn't seem to care what other people think of him. This kinda thing ties into yer little 'obsession' theory.

If ya' look at it from a certain point of view, Gin tends to do things that no other character is willing to do. He can backtalk anyone without worry of repercussions, because even the main antagonist isn't willing to expend him. He can do things that no other character in Bleach can get away with.

Gin does what he wants to do and doesn't care about how it affects other people. Now, with Rukia and all, Gin seems to express an odd fascination with her well-being. It was obviously expressed when Rukia and Gin had the confrontation before Rukia's execution.

Gin proceeds to crush her confidence and resolve, and simply doesn't care about what happens. It almost appears as though he has no morals.

Onto the morals, Gin is master of something that most people are inexperienced with, and that's what makes it so dangerous.

Ichimaru Gin is a master of Mental Manipulation.

He can blatantly screw with yer mind and leave ya' confused and depressed with just a few words. And he does this freely. However, he seems to only pick on the people who interest him.

In this case, that person is Rukia. Gin seems to acknowledge her over some of his other 'victims'. His interest with her revolves around her reactions to his manipulation.

But why is she different? This is where I believe your theory ties in. Rukia is a pure soul. And it isn't hard to see why Rukia would be a prime target for Gin's deception and persuasive manipulation. Rukia has qualities that almost makes her the exact opposite of Gin...and as they say...opposites attract. Though in this case, it has a twisted meaning.

All in all, great theory ya' came up with. -^ ^-

[zukomyprince]

wow it was awesome reading all of this...so much thought put into these theories

i like the idea of him obsessed with her because she is so pure.

one question...is it weird or coincidental that Rukia looks and acts the exact opposite of Rangiku? does this feed into Gin's obsession? does it make it easier for him to torment her?

just ideas

[Lastier]

I think he just doesn't like Rukia, exactly like me. After all, I would do the same if I had all this free time in Hueco Mundo and my least favourite character would pay me a surprise visit.

[Graviija]

I just want to say this is a spectacular thread, and brings a whole new depth (whether intended by the author or not) to Bleach.

I mean, really guys, these theories are fascinating. Good work. :)

[Primera Espada]

While the opposite looks of Rangiku is evident, I wouldn't say that Rukia acts the opposite. They both have a duality to their personalities, overly silly, then serious, they both have white haired captains, they're both very devoted to their captains.

I'd say she's just as similar to Rangiku as she is opposite.

[hyiceme]

wow, a great thread! thanks for spotting, syn!!

I was just talking to a couple friends about this, and here's my confusion regarding this topic:
Why would Gin be "obsessed" with Rukia??? How did Aizen know about this? Was it that obvious? You know I always thought Aizen asked Gin to kill Rukia as a test of his loyalty, which doesn't really make any sense because why would Gin betray Aizen for Rukia??? and also there's Matsumoto. Gin definitely has a soft spot for her. Remember his fight with Shiro where he left when Matsumoto came to defend Shiro? Gin obviously didn't want to fight/hurt her. He also apologized to her before he went to HM. Now, if I were Aizen, I'd think this relationship is more probable to make Gin betray me. So why didn't Aizen ask Gin to kill Matsumoto? and instead kill Rukia, the helpless and powerless girl? and Aizen isn't even interested in killing random people. He didn't kill that fox captain nor did he cared to kill Renji or Ichigo, so WHY RUKIA???
I guess the one thing that's really bothering me is why did Aizen ask Gin to kill Rukia?
we came up with alot of crazy theories, but they are more of fanfic material...:p

[Sergelia]

I for one disagree with the whole Rangiku business. Rukia and Rangiku have neither opposite personalities nor were they linked in any way possible throughout the manga, except for Orihime and Rangiku's conversation. I don't think Gin would make a parallel between the two, one of them arguably being the most important female figure of his afterlife and the other being... what, exactly? When we know what is it about Rukia that sparks his attention, I'm sure it'll become evident Matsumoto and Kuchiki are not even opposites, but just different things in his eyes.

Ulquiorra asks Gin "Corridor controls... Are you...?" To which Gin replies "Naaaah... I ain't doin' nuthin' mean like that. Besides... I jus' hate sad stories." Which, because we know he DID do something mean like that, automatically makes this claim a lie (rather obviously... -__-) and we wonder, why would Gin go as far as to torture Rukia with her memory of Kaien? If he just 'didn't like her' he would send a badass guy after her with an order to kill. However he chose torture over murder. That might be a part of Gin's character, but this marks the SECOND time he went out of his way just to break her spirit. Why?

Ah well... wonderful theories, guys, I wish I'd thought of them first :p Things like this simply upset me, because they are make Bleach a GOOD story, and fanboys choose to ignore them. At the end we end up looking silly because we acknowledge that the plot goes deeper than 'slash-powerup-fight' they like so much. >__>

[Marionette]

Just re-reading the sixteenth volume (with Viz's horrible translation, I still cringe every time I see Rukia calling her nii-sama "Byakuya", or "Kaien sir!"), and just wants to comment on how freakin' fascinating Rukia's monolog about Gin is. The Viz translation translated that she said repeatedly, plainly, that she hates him, she knows there wasn't a real reason to but she does anyway (other translations mostly say "dislike", which I trust more than Viz's. But as we can see, "dislike" is an understatement).

What she has isn’t pure fear, but she also said “I just automatically resist everything about this person.” After all her lost and gain, I don’t know if she ever felt strongly negative about everyone (and also in the Chinese official translation, Gin didn’t say “I’m just taking a walk…and wants to tease you a bit”, but “I’m just taking a walk …and just have some bad intentions.”).

For that, I can understand Syn’s theory more than I did before, because her dislike for him is possibly identical to Wanderweiss’s: it’s because Gin is so “impure”. And as Wanderweiss resembles a child that is so new to the world, Rukia’s Shirayuki possibly also represent something.

My pet theory is that it has something to do with Rukia’s predecessors: Byakuya, Hisana (no I’m not saying that he was in love with Hisana either) or even Urahara. I’m 70% sure that Hisana was lying her pretty little face off when she told Byakuya that she just threw her sister away b/c she can’t feed them both, and possibly both the reason and the “sister” part is untrue. After all, they look a bit to similar and souls that died together usually don’t get sent to SS at the same place. If Hisana spent all that time looking for Rukia, would she just threw her away? And if they both need to be fed, does that mean that Hisana had spiritual power too? Does that have something to do with when Urahara put his little crystal of destruction in Rukia?

PS: I don't think that Rukia is the opposite of Rangiku either, if anything, Hinamori is (not really, actually). They are different, and more in appearance than personally (Yoruichi and Rangiku aren't the only ones that teased Ichigo and got his all embarrassed) at that.

[Jaina]

La la, wandering in...I really need to remind myself to post more. Or at all. Anyway, I doubt Aizen was testing Gin's loyalty--regardless of whether Gin will show his own agenda later, at that moment on Sokyoku Hill, Aizen had to have been certain of Gin's loyalty. I wonder if it was more of a TREAT to Gin, letting him kill Rukia, which would mean he was aware of Gin's issues with Rukia. Whatever those are.

I have to say, I doubt Gin hates Rukia for her purity. I don't think she's all that pure, personally. She's a good person, a noble person, but she's got her flaws and selfishness like anyone else.

[Lucia]

I don't think she's all that pure, personally. She's a good person, a noble person, but she's got her flaws and selfishness like anyone else.

Why do you think she's not pure? Also, I agree she has flaws like everyone else in the manga, but can you please give an example of when she was portrayed as being selfish? I'm curious.

About Gin's 'obsession' with Rukia....I don't think it's because he can't stand her purity. I think it's something else; more complicated. My theory - I think it concerns Hisana somehow. Who knows. Maybe Gin has met Hisana BEFORE meeting Rangiku. Hisana probably left and Gin went to look for her everyday. Perhaps that's the reason why he leaves Rangiku alone and wonder off somewhere all the time.

[hyiceme]

La la, wandering in...I really need to remind myself to post more. Or at all. Anyway, I doubt Aizen was testing Gin's loyalty--regardless of whether Gin will show his own agenda later, at that moment on Sokyoku Hill, Aizen had to have been certain of Gin's loyalty. I wonder if it was more of a TREAT to Gin, letting him kill Rukia, which would mean he was aware of Gin's issues with Rukia. Whatever those are.

I have to say, I doubt Gin hates Rukia for her purity. I don't think she's all that pure, personally. She's a good person, a noble person, but she's got her flaws and selfishness like anyone else.

hm......Aizen giving Rukia to Gin to kill as a treat does sound interesting. But I guess my question is why was Aizen so insistent on killing her in the first place? Not only did he order Gin to kill her, but actually proceeded to draw his sword when Gin failed. Aizen just doesn't strike me as someone who cares to kill unnecessary lives and that's why this kinda bothers me. ^^

and I have to agree with Lucia here, why would you say Rukia isn't pure? and How was she selfish? Could you give any examples please? I am curious. ^_^

[Jaina]

Eek, I phrased that not quite how I wanted it--I didn't mean selfishness in that she's a selfish person. Definitely not--she's TOO selfless a lot of the time! Though not 100% selfless to her core, which is closer to what I meant. Her feelings for Kaien are one thing, if you believe they were at least partially romantic in nature, as I do. As much as she did value his friendship for what it was, IMHO there was subtext that indicated she was not terribly proud of herself for having feelings for him, as he was married. (The "Everything felt right when I was with Kaien-dono/Kaien-dono had a wife" bit read to me like someone carefully reminding herself of something.) A truly pure and completely unselfish, angelic person probably would have been able to banish any less-than-appropriate feelings, because angelic characters do that kind of crap. But Rukia still had them. Of course, if you don't think she had any romantic feelings for him, then this whole rambling example kinda sucks, eh heh heh.

To make a short story long: Rukia's a good person, but she's also very human, so I don't think she has a weirdly high amount of purity that Gin would dislike, though I'll grant that it's always possible that it's just his perception that she does. And it could depend how you define purity.

As for why Aizen so wanted to kill her in the first place, man, your guess is as good as mine. It could've been he just likes tying up loose ends. Or that he was concerned about any weird effects carrying the hogyoku might have had on her. Or the fact that, proclaimed mercy for Momo aside, Aizen seems to have a sadistic edge. I do find it interesting that Aizen goes to such lengths not to spill blood with his own hands, though he does a good job of it when he does! Ichigo probably needed quite the transfusion after nearly being bisected.

[Marionette]

Depends on how you define pure, I was just gonna say...and than my computer died:o I don't think I'd call her innocent as in virginal, angelic, childlike in a Nell/Wanderweiss way, and especially not flawless. But you could interpret it as an innate nobility or kindness. I think the reason most people make the link between her "purity" and Gin's obsession, though, is because of Shirayuki.

With that said, although I can see where this is coming from, I'm not particularly found of it either. I think Rukia is pretty special, and so does a lot of the Bleach cast, but some other characters are also pretty "pure". Hinamori is pure to a fault (not almost, definitely to a fault)...well I guess you can say that Gin isn't too good to her either....:o but my point is, Rukia is special once you actually kind of know her (to most of the SS she is just the high and mighty little princess Kuchiki who you are not suppose to talk to), and the Gin/Rukia dynamic seems to exist from the very beginning.

[Sergelia]

er feelings for Kaien are one thing, if you believe they were at least partially romantic in nature, as I do. As much as she did value his friendship for what it was, IMHO there was subtext that indicated she was not terribly proud of herself for having feelings for him, as he was married. (The "Everything felt right when I was with Kaien-dono/Kaien-dono had a wife" bit read to me like someone carefully reminding herself of something.) A truly pure and completely unselfish, angelic person probably would have been able to banish any less-than-appropriate feelings, because angelic characters do that kind of crap. But Rukia still had them.

Actually, I consider Rukia's love for Kaien to be one of the purest 'loves' in Bleach shown to this date. She never expected him to return her feelings. She was content the way it was and even went as far as to say how much she admired Miyako, his wife, and how much she craved to be like her. Now, this is where my use of the adjective, 'pure', comes in.

Now I'm not sure whether this is on-topic, but if it isn't.... delete it, what should I say. I'm putting it under a spoiler-tag so people wouldn't have to read what they don't want to.



Following? Cool. I, like many others, after reading Orihime's speech to Matsumoto, about her feelings for Ichigo and Rukia respectively and her feelings of unworthiness and overall despise for herself (I swear I cried there with her; I hated seeing her like that), automatically drew a parallel between her and Rukia's speech, which were set apart by a few dozen years and still had remarkable similarities. Before that, I'd never describe Rukia's feelings for Kaien as pure. Unrequited, semi-platonic, admiring - yes, but the word pure wouldn't come to my mind. But then I saw Orihime, the cheerful, kind Orihime who I liked so much as a character, break down crying and calling herself disgusting, comparing herself with Rukia (yes, she really said "Kuchiki-san is ___, _____ and ____ (insert words of admiring and respect here), and I'm... I'm disgusting"), and over what? A guy she loves and who happens to have a bond with Rukia, a bond which Orihime at that time recognized as something she could never compare to.

I saw black and my eye twitched. Well, I also felt an urge to call the local feminist group, but that's another story. I quickly went back to re-read Rukia's take on Kaien and Miyako and saw what? A peaceful, if slightly disappointed, description that revealed that she was perfectly okay with the situation. Wait. Fast forward. Orihime says (I paraphrase) "Kuchiki-san is... really amazing, isn't she? ... She's kind, and beautiful, and smart and I... I'm so disgusting... *tears of sadness*" . Rewind. Rukia says (again, I paraphrase) "Miyako-san was kind, gentle and beautiful. I admired her... she was my idol." Dot. And she didn't exactly look like she was breaking down in tears either.

What I'm trying to say is, Rukia was okay with the situation. Her behavior was one of 'contempt', not envy or disappointment. And Kubo gave us a rather generous parallel so we could see it even more clearly. It's rare that he makes his parallels so obvious, but hey, I ain't complaining. And before people go throw stones at me, no, I'm not talking about Kaien and Miyako or Ichigo and Rukia here; that's a whole 'nother story. What I'm talking about is how Kubo generously offered us Rukia-->Kaien and Orihime-->Ichigo so we would see and compare Rukia's and Orihime's personalities in an almost identical situation, which is more than most manga-kas do to convince their audience, I'd say.

Rukia is pure. You may argue against it, but definitely not with her love for a married man as an argument. Kubo did his best to tell us "She Loved Him Selflessly". It's up to us to choose whether we will simply ignore it or not.

EDIT: completely agree with the rest of your posts, though. ^__^ I'm just trying to prove a point with this post, it's not directed towards anyone in particular; it's mostly reflecting my thoughts on how Kubo used Rukia-->Kaien to showcase her purity even more.

[Shadoblak]

I just think he likes manipulation.....He said he isnt too fond of sad stories, and he seems to like messing with people....He made himself very suspicious to Hitsu while Aizen was plotting and he always just seemed to be messing with Rukia, Maybe it has more to do with manipulation in general than obsession with her

[BigBadBuu]

I just think he likes manipulation.....He said he isnt too fond of sad stories, and he seems to like messing with people....He made himself very suspicious to Hitsu while Aizen was plotting and he always just seemed to be messing with Rukia, Maybe it has more to do with manipulation in general than obsession with her

I agree here.

Gin seems to be one who simply messes with people just to mess with them.

Personally, I could understand why Rukia would be of particular interest..

Think about how amusing it was, this girl adopted into the Kuchiki household for no reason apparent to her. Half-heartedly trying to fit it, but forever feeling outofplace, if not shunned.

And Byakuya.. Gin would have also known that Rukia is/was some sort of twisted replacement for Hisana. How amusing, then, to see Byakuya's way of dealing with her even when you know what kind of emotional turmoil is going on inside the man..

How amusing that that Byakuya's reasons for taking care of Rukia were purely love based, but due to Byakuya's status/upbringing could only be expressed as something 2 steps short of contempt.

And then here comes the whole execution deal... Lets see how our stoic Byakuya reacts to this? Let's test his resolve a bit and look for cracks in his stoic mask..

Bottom line: I get Gin, I think. Out of all the relationships in Bleach, the Byakuya/Rukia one was the most screwy for many reasons. As someone who loves playing with / torturing people, that situation would have been the perfect opportunity to explore the psyches of two very different people.

Coming into the HM arch, Gin arranging for Rukia to run into Kaien/Aaroiniro was again simply to explore the virtues and vices of humanity at the expense of others.

-Buu

[JebbaChan]

Wow! This thread is amazing! There are theories that I've never even thought about! I think Gin & Rukia's relationship is one of the most intriguing in Bleach. I really hope that Gin gets to Rukia before this arc ends & maybe sheds some light on the reasons for Gin's treatment towards Rukia. Plus I want to see my crack fantasy ::points at sig w/ maniacal laughter::

[Marionette]

I agree here.

Gin seems to be one who simply messes with people just to mess with them.

Personally, I could understand why Rukia would be of particular interest..

Think about how amusing it was, this girl adopted into the Kuchiki household for no reason apparent to her. Half-heartedly trying to fit it, but forever feeling outofplace, if not shunned.

And Byakuya.. Gin would have also known that Rukia is/was some sort of twisted replacement for Hisana. How amusing, then, to see Byakuya's way of dealing with her even when you know what kind of emotional turmoil is going on inside the man..

How amusing that that Byakuya's reasons for taking care of Rukia were purely love based, but due to Byakuya's status/upbringing could only be expressed as something 2 steps short of contempt.

And then here comes the whole execution deal... Lets see how our stoic Byakuya reacts to this? Let's test his resolve a bit and look for cracks in his stoic mask..

Bottom line: I get Gin, I think. Out of all the relationships in Bleach, the Byakuya/Rukia one was the most screwy for many reasons. As someone who loves playing with / torturing people, that situation would have been the perfect opportunity to explore the psyches of two very different people.

Coming into the HM arch, Gin arranging for Rukia to run into Kaien/Aaroiniro was again simply to explore the virtues and vices of humanity at the expense of others.

-Buu
I can see what you mean, and I'd agree mostly if there's wasn't Rukia's monolog about how she is crept out by him (and that degree of being crept out seems unique to her, even when Gin looks suspicious to everyone, nobody seems that crept out).

And more importantly, look at how and why he messed with Hitsu: sure, he and Hinamori would be fun to mess with, but in the end we find out that Gin did that for a practical reason. I don't know if it’s definitely Rukia herself that Gin's interested in, but very possibly Rukia is linked to something bigger than what we know about. Which ever is the case, I don't think he is just doing this for fun because opportunity presented itself (but I do agree that Rukia and Byakuya's relationship is messed up and I used to hates it...but although now I still would never want them to get together or anything, I adores their dynamics in a not completely platonic way).

[JebbaChan]

I can see what you mean, and I'd agree mostly if there's wasn't Rukia's monolog about how she is crept out by him (and that degree of being crept out seems unique to her, even when Gin looks suspicious to everyone, nobody seems that crept out).

And more importantly, look at how and why he messed with Hitsu: sure, he and Hinamori would be fun to mess with, but in the end we find out that Gin did that for a practical reason. I don't know if it’s definitely Rukia herself that Gin's interested in, but very possibly Rukia is linked to something bigger than what we know about. Which ever is the case, I don't think he is just doing this for fun because opportunity presented itself (but I do agree that Rukia and Byakuya's relationship is messed up and I used to hates it...but although now I still would never want them to get together or anything, I adores their dynamics in a not completely platonic way).

I agree. With Hina & Hitsu, we don't know if Aizen had told him to mess w/ them to a certain extent & it was part of the plan. But w/ Rukia, he didn't have to go to her & I don't see why Aizen would tell him to do this since it wouldn't help w/ the plan. From Rukia's monologue we can assume that maybe he's always messed w/ her & gave her the creeps, while it seems like no one else really had any problems with him.

But maybe the GinRuki crack is frying my brain...
"This is your brain on GinRuki crack..."

[Godell]

The Prince and His Princess

The way I see the Gin-Rukia relationship is that it has the general feel of the Prince Charming ideal ("Want me to save you?") that becomes horribly, wonderfully wrong. Also, there are some rather humorous parallels between Ichigo and Gin: one scowls, the other smiles, one jumps in and saves Rukia without hesitation, the other asks her in what some would call a "gentlemanly" manner, whether she even wants to be rescued...

I almost think Gin's "Prince Charming" demeanor is more than just an act--that's how he sees himself. Everyone believes they are the hero of their life story, whether they do good or bad things. Gin would be no exception. And since his "original" damsel in distress is clearly more than able to take care of herself now (Rangiku), he finds someone else to interest himself in: young Rukia Kuchiki, fresh out of the Soul Reaper Academy. Technically, she herself is a "princess" of sorts, an innocent girl just as in the fairy tale model. Naturally, Gin can't help but use this ideal to his advantage.

Of course, he doesn't go about expressing his feelings (whatever they may be) in the right way. Young boys often tease and torment the objects of their affection, only to prompt the girls disgust. This makes the boys happier in that the girl’s have noticed them. Gin, however, seems to have taken that approach to a whole new, cruel level. Just as you'd expect.

[Shdo]

he simply being sadistic to the one its most easy to be sadistic to.
just like he came to hinamori and acted cruel to her, or playing with hitsugaya and tricking kira.
he simply like to abuse people around him.

its a person who killed his 3rd officer when he joined the gotei because he could. that is the same in this situation, he can so he does.

[Budo]

Yeah, but he does have a special fixation with Rukia. I liked how the original post by Syn backed it up with hints that I had missed on the manga.

I don't like the notions of him prepping her up to be his "ultimate opponent" or something on the like, that I find silly. He just likes to toy with her and I think it has to do with Rukia being able to see him as who he really is. He's always been aware of it and gets a sadistic thrill by mindfucking her. Simple as that.

[Shdo]

she is also the only main character he had enough time with to 'mindfuck'.
its clearly more intresting to see him torturing her (and its so easy and right there with the imprisonment thing) then to see him torturing someone he dosnt know such as any other main character.

when i think about it, he abused hinamori even more (which in turn caused pain to hitsugaya and kira). he simply goes with the flow, abuse everyone he can as opportunity show itself.
its shown well even in his funny goldens, for example when he cause that previrion espada to trip just because he could (while not canon its still show his nature).

[bradc]

Rukia stated when Gin talks; she felt that a snake was wrapped around her throat. But Rukia was being executed in Soul Society during the first invasion. Where in Las Noches with her fight with Aaroniero/Shiba Kaien was completely mirrored reflection from what happened prior in Soul Society.

Aizen had him killed her during the End of Hypnosis Arc was to reveal his true intention, before Aizen changed his appearance. Rukia and Aaroniero was double K.O in Las Noches. Gin later stated he might as well killed them all at once (Only revealed part filler anime episode, Ep 136-137) (All the Shinigami), to save Aizen the trouble giving them the leeway to Heuco Mundo.

It wasn't just Rukia he was after...

ETA: Gin's intention is pretty much Chaos.

[Budo]

I think you're both missing on the manga panels of Syn's original post.

Btw, I'm gonna rep her for that.

[H!Mandy]

omg, this thread just made my life happier :lala

one of my favorite interactions in Bleach is Gin/Rukia. it's so mysterious and creppy, I hope KT will still give us some more on that one day :wtf

Syn, I adore you for your post, it's amazing. we all know that everyhting Kubo writes/draws has a meaning. he wouldn't waste paper, ink and his precious time drawing these panels about how Rukia is the only one Gin scares to death. maybe that is why Gin likes teasing Rukia more than any other poor soul, because he knows how much he affects her.
I know Gin likes messing up with anyone, like Kira, Hinamori and Hitsugaya, but I agree that there is something special about Rukia

I'm loving all the posts here, you guys have amazingly deep thoughts about this issue :wha

btw, I say most of you should join it here: yes, there is a GinRukia FC :fu (http://www.bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?t=1420)
xD
I'll write more when I'm inspired, I promise. just wanted to add that I think that all the possibilities Syn pointed out seem plausible to me. my favorite is that he met Hisana somehow >D

[bradc]

I was in a bit of a hurry anyway... Let me elaborate a bit further

Rukia represent the femininity of the moon: the rabbit (yin). This would Gin the masculine aspect of the moon: the snake (yang); why the moon waxes and wanes during it's moon phases between Soul Society and Heuco Mundo. The snake/serpent is the unknown and shadow that brings fear into people's unconsciousness or what drives people mad. The snake and the moon also represent knowledge and understanding.

Gin's name translation:

市丸 ギン; Ichimaru Gin; Market, Fair, Town, City, Trade Round Silver


Read: Masuclinity and the Moon (http://home.earthlink.net/~lyam/MOON.htm)

[H!Mandy]

wow bradc, I think I love you xD

that fits sooo well, it's amazing. I love those kinds of analysis, thanks for sharing :wtf

please allow me to quote you on the GinRuki FC ^____^

--oh, but the link isn't working for me :cry

[Furuba Fan]

Naah....I just always thought that Gin always had a thing for little girls :p!

That is why he left Rangiku and went to the academy...she was getting too old.....and then, Hinamori and Rukia (especially the latter) were his next targets :eek:!

That pedophile :yell!

:D


KIDDING :lmao!

Great read....wow.....I think I am seeing Gin in a different light.....and all of these theories coming up....keep it up....they are really good :o!

[hinamori_momo]

I think there is definately a meaning to this Gin and Rukia creepy situation thing. I just had a though that gin started random conversations with Byakuya just to creep out Rukia. And i was also wondering if you can disguise your riatsu as some type of feeling and shoot it at a certain person...

Also, Gin might just be naturally evil and Rukia might have a "special" sense that tells her to fear gin more. Rukia's been through alot of emotional processes so she may have a more sharpened sense of bad things because she lived in such a dangerous place as a kid but i can't find any real reason for gin to target Rukia...he might just find some sort of interest in her because of her background or soul cutter, etc. Maybe Gin just likes creating sad stories to destroy peoples' lives and thats why he picks on Rukia to place in despair, who also has alot of emotional history, before moving on to someone else...

[Syn]

Are you serious? oO I don't think Gin is interested in that way in Rukia at all. >____>' As I said in the front post, IMHO the only woman he has affection for - and I wouldn't even call that love because I think he's not quite there and somehow regretting it - is Matsumoto.

[Kreed]

intresting topic, i've always noticed his obsession with Rukia, but never had the linguistic skills to elaborate on it as well as other people in this thread, but while i do think Gin has an obsession with her, i think thats all it is, a weird sadistic obsession, who knows why? i have faith Kubo will elaborate on this as the manga goes on,(how can he not XD). i agree with Syn, i think "love" or even "lust" for that matter is far from what drives his obsession with her, i think its something a bit more on the sinister side.it is Gin after all. hmm i wonder if the future manga chapters will ever have them duke it out, though Gin does have many people who wouldn't mind kicking his ass toshiro,Kira? maybe even Rangiku. personally i wouldnt mind seeing Rukia put him in his place, but i think thats wishfull thinking ^ ^

[Lucia]

NakeBenihime: I don't think Syn is trying to criticize your opinions. I don't see anything on her post that says that you're wrong and she's right. She just doesn't agree with what you said. She has her own views and you have your own.

Personally, I don't agree with what you said on your post about Gin either. I don't believe his 'interest' in Rukia is sexual in nature, and I certainly don't consider the snakes as a metaphor of trying to seduce her. Otherwise, he's doing something wrong because it's obvious Rukia is very afraid of him. Anyway, I don't agree because I don't see any hints on the manga to suggest that what you're implying is exactly what Gin is trying to do to Rukia. Gin the seducer doesn't sound right to me. It doesn't seem to fit of what we know of Gin's character or personality.

[hinamori_momo]

Well, in my opinion, i don't think Gin is the sick type of person who would be infatuated with someone way younger than him. As i said before, hes just another evil one that enjoys drowning unfortunate victims in fear...

[Lionpaw]

Wow. You have a very complex theory here backed by a lot of evidence. Have you considered going to law school? When I first clicked this thread I was thinking something under the lines of :Oh, here we go, another stupid theory to justify a crack pairing." But now I'm feeling quite the opposite.

[BleachOD]

Personally, I don't believe Gin cares about anyone. He is a sadist. He is just a passive aggressive one.Gin always seems to smile the brightest when he is hurting someone, or someone is being hurt in front of him. He smiled over the Shinigami body. Kira did not look like he was doing well. He was smiling brightly and made that sarcastic yet cryptic remark

He gets off on tormenting Rukia.(he could tell right away she was afraid of him) He manipulated the corridors so she see #9 knowing whose face and memories he had.

I don't believe he loves Matsumoto either. I don't believe he cares about her...one bit. I think he delights in Matsumoto's angst over him. I think he enjoys the fact that she is unsure of their relationship.

Matsumoto's pain over his betrayal was evident at the Soukyoku's hill. He was smiling really brightly at that moment. If she had of held on to him a bit longer...she would have been trapped. That wouldn't have been good. It wasn't romantic at all. He is truly a sadistic killer...that's why I love him! :love

[Guildenstern]

Naah....I just always thought that Gin always had a thing for little girls :p!

That is why he left Rangiku and went to the academy...she was getting too old.....and then, Hinamori and Rukia (especially the latter) were his next targets :eek:!

That pedophile!

THIS POST IS 100% GUILDY APPROVED but you forgot Hitsugaya! Maybe Gin just loves flatties and we'll catch him chasing the three of them around with a pile of schoolgirl uniforms and a camera. Rukia can be the Lolita to his Humbert and then Chris Hansen would show up and take him aside to talk with him for a second and then I could devolve into a whole pile of Freudian bullshit about zanpakutos and it could be totally awesome.

...But in all seriousness, you guys have brought up a lot of good points. Kubo's made a point of highlighting his antagonism towards her, but to what end I know not, and Kubo has a lot of fun bringing up things about Rukia and then letting them drop, seemingly for the hell of it. He seems to have a problem incorporating some of his narrative into the actual story itself a la Vizored backstory flashback, so maybe he'll have to do a side part to explain this, or maybe he'll get it out of the way when we find out finally how she got the damn Hougyoku. Or maybe he'll shrug and say 'A wizard did it' like he does sometimes with Orihime et. al. Who knows? Kubo's gotten unpredictable with the turns he gives things.

There's definately more to the situation than merely 'He did it for the lulz' though, for sure.

[BleachAddict]

Whoa… this is a very interesting thread… very nice posts you guys *hands down* I have always wondered about the backstory between Gin and Rukia – am so glad I found this thread.

I find Ichimaru another interesting character in Bleach. I place him alongside Urahara and Isshin. He’s vicious yet you can’t help but think that it might just be his façade, that there is more behind that. He's wicked. Me likey - reminds me of DeathNote's Reito.

Lemme see…(warning: I am not a literary genius so I may say somethings that is complete gibberish..my apologies in advance) when I first read Rukia’s account on why she hated/disliked Ichimaru, I just took it at face value (as I usually did the first time I read Bleach – I understood it better after my second, third and fourth run) and saw it as how Kubo wanted us to see Gin’s savageness. That his grin is not something adorable or a sign of happiness. His grin is wicked, a grin of a heartless person. As to why Rukia felt snakes choking her everytime Gin is around her is only Kubo’s way of putting some drama into it and to further show us Gin’s wickedness. Then I read Bleach again, and again…I suddenly realized that there is more to this than just Kubo’s “dramatic effect”…

TBH, i didn't notice Gin's sudden interest in HM and that conversion with Ulq.. i can't help but fall asleep everytime i reach that part (HM). me bad. :D Now i know. :D

I like the theory of Gin hating Rukia because she is pure and is his exact opposite. It has been shown that Gin kills without hesitation. Even when he was only a kid as shown in the Pendulum Arc, thus making him an unpure person. And he is taking pleasure at emotionally torturing meRukia. Emotional wounds run deeper than any physical wounds so they say. He is the human version of Uliquoirra when it comes to m!ndfucI<ng games.

[07Janina07]

I just think that Gin likes to torture people and Rukia has a really big problem with killing Kaien and all that jazz. He can easily exploit that, I am sure that he would do the same with Ichigo's mother and any other emotional trauma he finds in the character.

He is twisted and nasty like that. He likes to furrow his finger in a open wound that brings suffering. I honestly think he likes to see people suffer and takes some sadistic pleasure from doing so. Besides Rukia was right there and he had the perfect tool to torture her with in both instances.