When relationships go bad

[Unicorn]

Another discussion piece on domestic violence, triggered by yet more recent newspaper articles - depressing stories this time.

A father is convicted of drowning his 3 sons just to 'get back' at his estranged wife. He drove his car into a dam on Father's Day, then he alone got out and claimed it was a tragic accident and he could not save them.

A self-proclaimed martial-arts supreme grandmaster bashed his wife to death, then abandoned his 3-year old little girl in a public train station.

Countless protection orders are taken out against partners. Welfare shelters have been set up for these domestic violence refugees. Isn't it depressing to know that normal people, who were once in love, could end up like this?

What do you think triggers domestic violence? How far would you go when your temper snaps and you feel so tragically wronged. Would you ever consider using your partner or children as an outlet for revenge - hurting them to get back at someone else?

Personally, I very much prefer a public shaming - my temper is vicious and sarcastic. However I can confidently say that I am not violent, I don't even throw plates... yet. :o

[MCRdeathGOD]

Sometimes Domestic Violence can be triggered because of medical problems or alcohol/drug issues, but it is very likely that if you grew up in a violent or broken family, sometime in the future you may do the same, because you were surrounded by it at a young age.

Killing your child to get back at your partner is plainly idiotic, it makes no sense! why harm the poor innocent child? When some partners don't want to harm their child that's when they take out their anger on their partner.

My granfather use to harm my granmother, but that was because he was an alcoholic, my father still remembers those days but THANK GOD he is not like his father, he went through a great deal of pain & suffering so he doesn't want me & my bro's to go through that pain also. Some people dont think the same way, which causes them to become violent for no reason sometimes.

When i get angry I punch a punching bag, or a wall, this causes me pain instead of someone else. The only way that i would harm my child or partner as a sign or revenge would be if i were pshyco or under the influence of something that i can not control.

[emoloz]

Brings back memories of last years Sociology lessons. Anyways to the point i wouldn't harm anyone even if they did someone so wrong i could never forgive them. I don't believe that violence solves problems at all. It's better to sit down and make a rational conclusion to the happenings that have occured. Sure am for one sometimes when i get a bit angry and out of control for the whole revenge factors but really i don't like doing that because to me it doesn't just humilate the person it kinda humilates yourself for going as low as that to prove a point.

Most Domestic Violence occurs under the influence of drugs, alcohol, over exserted adrenaline, lack of sex, psychology problems etc. It's not a very nice thing at all i have never seen a act of domestic violence and i bet it does cause a great deal of pain but really it just makes yourself look like a pityful fool if you do theres no point to it. Sometimes there isn't even a reason for the victim to suffer domestic violence either. Once the offenders mind is set thats it.

Most of it doesn't even get reported because of fear of after consequences but really it should be the first thing you do report it.

[Rain]

domestic violence is triggered by fools who think that violence will help a situation.

I would never beat my girlfriend/wife I am just not a violent person. I don't get angry, nor do i ever desire revenge, it won't happen

[manfan]

Countless protection orders are taken out against partners. Welfare shelters have been set up for these domestic violence refugees. Isn't it depressing to know that normal people, who were once in love, could end up like this?

What do you think triggers domestic violence? How far would you go when your temper snaps and you feel so tragically wronged. Would you ever consider using your partner or children as an outlet for revenge - hurting them to get back at someone else?

When there are so many choices now, and people think they deserve better than what they have now==> domestic violence.

[emoloz]

domestic violence is triggered by fools who think that violence will help a situation.

I would never beat my girlfriend/wife I am just not a violent person. I don't get angry, nor do i ever desire revenge, it won't happen


Nah its not just that rain theres toones of things that can trigger it. Yes that may be one point but now all the points that can lead to it.

I agree i don't think i'd be able beat a guy at all. Am not strong enough for one plus violence to me doesn't solve lives problems its all about communication. Why i hate war and stuff see no point to endless violence. Which is kinda strange cause i watch anime/films etc thats violent and i think thats where ti should be left. In the imagination not put to practice.

[Unicorn]

When there are so many choices now, and people think they deserve better than what they have now==> domestic violence.

I don't quite understand, Manfan. What has choice and 'deserving better' got to do with hurting / killing people and restraining orders?

[manfan]

It has nothing to do with restraining orders. You did ask when relationships go bad, didn't you? I only say

When there are so many choices now, and people think they deserve better than what they have now==> domestic violence.

I don't follow the cases that you mentioned....but I do believe that most of the violent(domestic/non-domestic) cases, people being violent towards the others are merely because they think themselves deserves much better than what they have or recieving now. They are so caught up with wanting to fight/stand for their rights(personal/collectively) that they don't mind hurting others in the process....it's fight for your rights and get back at them, I should have said it clearer.

Perhaps that man's estranged wife is the one who nags and nags and nags at him....perhaps that martial arts wife too nags and nags over family supports that he gets fed up and do horrible things......

As for more choices......it's a general case that I believe happen in many marital domestic violence. Love turns sour when there is a much better alternative/option in comparison to the woman/man you vow to love....in the form of porn, third parties, Internet, work, money.....as such you just discard that person like an old rag doll. Would you throw away your only friend/toy if you know that you will never have any other more friend/toy than the one you have? Certainly not! You will cherish him/her/it.

Of course there are other contributing factors.....the sky is the limit, and we have how many people in this world now?

[Unicorn]

Yes, manfan. Maybe its all the victim's fault, hmm? "Get lost, I feel in love with this video porn star."

Instead of simply divorcing him / her, or talking through the problems (I have a right not to be nagged / I have a right to fall in love with a video porn star), they chose to hit / kill their parter. Why?

I am still confused over your interchangeable use of 'rights' and 'alternative options'. I kind of understand about 'rights' - the type used by gangs and schoolyard bullies. They want to remain top dog, want to continue doing whatever they want, and cannot stand any questioning of their 'power'.

Then you use 'alternative options'. IMO, it doesn't quite fit in your argument of 'rights' and the mentality of schoolyard bullies and gangs. These people are probably really confident - they think they know that they can get others (wives, partners, kids).

[manfan]

Yes, manfan. Maybe its all the victim's fault, hmm? "Get lost, I feel in love with this video porn star."

Instead of simply divorcing him / her, or talking through the problems (I have a right not to be nagged / I have a right to fall in love with a video porn star), they chose to hit / kill their parter. Why?

I am still confused over your interchangeable use of 'rights' and 'alternative options'. I kind of understand about 'rights' - the type used by gangs and schoolyard bullies. They want to remain top dog, want to continue doing whatever they want, and cannot stand any questioning of their 'power'.

Then you use 'alternative options'. IMO, it doesn't quite fit in your argument of 'rights' and the mentality of schoolyard bullies and gangs. These people are probably really confident - they think they know that they can get others (wives, partners, kids).

You make it look as if I am putting all the blame on the victims;)


I did say that....
I don't follow the cases that you mentioned....but I do believe that most of the violent(domestic/non-domestic) cases, people being violent towards the others are merely because they think themselves deserves much better than what they have or recieving now. They are so caught up with wanting to fight/stand for their rights(personal/collectively) that they don't mind hurting others in the process....it's fight for your rights and get back at them, I should have said it clearer.

Perhaps that man's estranged wife is the one who nags and nags and nags at him....perhaps that martial arts wife too nags and nags over family supports that he gets fed up and do horrible things......

Of course there are other contributing factors.....the sky is the limit, and we have how many people in this world now?

Don't let me cut and paste again what I have written please.

As for your statements again

I am still confused over your interchangeable use of 'rights' and 'alternative options'. I kind of understand about 'rights' - the type used by gangs and schoolyard bullies. They want to remain top dog, want to continue doing whatever they want, and cannot stand any questioning of their 'power'.

Then you use 'alternative options'. IMO, it doesn't quite fit in your argument of 'rights' and the mentality of schoolyard bullies and gangs. These people are probably really confident - they think they know that they can get others (wives, partners, kids).

I'm sure I use the conjunction 'and' not 'or'. I don't group them as one; 'rights' and 'alternative options'. They are two separate things. I'm merely rehashing what other people are saying about some people believe in using violence as a solution to a problem / being under influences to other stuffs(choosing other stuffs, instead what is right).

This is not English lesson, you know. We both know who has the superior English.

But there is one thing then I have to ask you Unicorn......since you said.....
Yes, manfan. Maybe its all the victim's fault, hmm? "Get lost, I feel in love with this video porn star."then do you really believe that all the domestic problems are really due to the offender's faults and not victims?

It's not a trapping question, it's just mere curiousity.

[Unicorn]

You make it look as if I am putting all the blame on the victims;)
Yes, refer to your posts again. You made it look that way by suggesting that both victims deserved to have their lives ruined because of alleged repeated nagging.

But there is one thing then I have to ask you Unicorn......since you said.....
then do you really believe that all the domestic problems are really due to the offender's faults and not victims?
Oh, I accept that sometimes the victim triggers the quarrel, for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, the partner acts like a bully and believes in using physical violence as his / her right to 'resolve' and 'win' the argument. (yes, there are male victims of domestic violence).

Right back at ya. Do you really believe that it is acceptable for the offender to retaliate to constant nagging by, lets say, killing the partner or their kids?

The 2nd part of my original query is left unanswered - if you were pushed to the brink (lets say.... constant nagging), how far would you go? What, in your opinion, is "too much" and "oh it's acceptable, partner deserved it"?

Don't let me cut and paste again what I have written please.
Awww why not? You quoted great chunks of my posts 3 times.

I'm sure I use the conjunction 'and' not 'or'. I don't group them as one; 'rights' and 'alternative options'. They are two separate things. I'm merely rehashing what other people are saying about some people believe in using violence as a solution to a problem / being under influences to other stuffs(choosing other stuffs, instead what is right).

I'm pretty sure that I did use separate paragraphs for each phrase... yes I did (confused about your 'and' and 'or' explanation - think you should reverse it). The fact that you use certain arguments in a debate means that you believe in them, not merely rehash.

This is not English lesson, you know.
You seem pretty hung up over classes and grades. Are you Singaporean? I am.

[Riekie]

Okay...this is not a part of the relationships gone bad BUT it has to do about violence, abuse etc.

Just a few mins ago I read about the shooting at the Cleveland SuccessTech Highschool and 4 people were injured by the 14-year old boy who later committed suicide, as I've read.

It states that he was upset because he was in a fight the other day and got suspended....now, that is no reason to go to school and shoot people.

How do you guys feel about this?

[Rain]

Riekie- I had just heard about that a few hours ago; but I don't know how much can be said about it.

It is terrible and is most likely an extreme overeaction to an event, but, at least here in the US, not much info has been released.

[manfan]

Yes, refer to your posts again. You made it look that way by suggesting that both victims deserved to have their lives ruined because of alleged repeated nagging.


Oh, I accept that sometimes the victim triggers the quarrel, for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, the partner acts like a bully and believes in using physical violence as his / her right to 'resolve' and 'win' the argument. (yes, there are male victims of domestic violence).

Right back at ya. Do you really believe that it is acceptable for the offender to retaliate to constant nagging by, lets say, killing the partner or their kids?

The 2nd part of my original query is left unanswered - if you were pushed to the brink (lets say.... constant nagging), how far would you go? What, in your opinion, is "too much" and "oh it's acceptable, partner deserved it"?


Awww why not? You quoted great chunks of my posts 3 times.



I'm pretty sure that I did use separate paragraphs for each phrase... yes I did (confused about your 'and' and 'or' explanation - think you should reverse it). The fact that you use certain arguments in a debate means that you believe in them, not merely rehash.


You seem pretty hung up over classes and grades. Are you Singaporean? I am.

Somehow Unicorn, I do see you getting pretty hung up over me.....or else why do I see you picking up on me over small, petty things? ;) I did say that I had not followed the cases that you mentioned, didn't I?

Selective reading;)....
The 2nd part of my original query is left unanswered - if you were pushed to the brink (lets say.... constant nagging), how far would you go? What, in your opinion, is "too much" and "oh it's acceptable, partner deserved it"?
I have the right not to answer that question, don't I? I don't want to answer....don't expect any answer from me, it's too a general question for me. Different people handle things differently.

I'll answer this question though....
Right back at ya. Do you really believe that it is acceptable for the offender to retaliate to constant nagging by, lets say, killing the partner or their kids?
As for me, if I get nagged at constantly, no I don't think it is acceptable for me to retaliate by killing. I would just walk away, and give the cold treatment to the said person, if it were me......after I tried to do my very best to solve the conflicts that we(my wife and I) are facing.

Demo.....do you know how generally sharp a woman's tongue when it comes to scolding/belittling/mocking people.....and how fragile people's ego and pride, especially man's?

Nagging isn't a one time thing, and a person's self inferiority is an accumulative effect of long time condemnation.

Theoratically it is not acceptable for the offender to retaliate by killing the partner and the kids.....but each individual's own strength and limitation differs from one man/woman to another.

And no....I don't have a say of whether it is acceptable or not for that offender to retaliate that by killing the nagging partner.

Put yourself in the offender's shoes before you try to pass the judgement on whether it is acceptable or not for every action done.

No more of this, Unicorn....I have enough.

Just a few mins ago I read about the shooting at the Cleveland SuccessTech Highschool and 4 people were injured by the 14-year old boy who later committed suicide, as I've read.

It states that he was upset because he was in a fight the other day and got suspended....now, that is no reason to go to school and shoot people.

How do you guys feel about this?
It's rumors isn't it? There are people who say that he is a very nice polite guy but then there are statements that say that he is always picked and pushed to the edge....and that he has family problems.

It's very much like the same things in other educational institutions. If I am in that area I would be stunned and shocked over the incident.

[Unicorn]

Somehow Unicorn, I do see you getting pretty hung up over me.....or else why do I see you picking up on me over small, petty things? ;) I did say that I had not followed the cases that you mentioned, didn't I?

Selective reading;)....
Nyah, I get hung up over other people in the debate section, when they aren't clear or when they generalise too much. You're not that special.

In any case, I did not expect in-depth reviews and analysis of those 2 cases, I only provided them as examples. You are free to provide other examples to disprove my theories.

I have the right not to answer that question, don't I? I don't want to answer....don't expect any answer from me, it's too a general question for me. Different people handle things differently.

No more of this, Unicorn....I have enough.
Selective answering. :rolleyes: And apparently you have had enough of something.

Put yourself in the offender's shoes before you try to pass the judgement on whether it is acceptable or not for every action done.
:confused: That's why I put this topic for discussion in the debate thread, didn't I? For people to offer alternative opinions and disprove various theories (including mine).


Re: the Cleveland Highschool shooting - are there any more developments?

And let's get this thread back on topic!!

[Agmaster]

So I went to a domestic violence seminar Thursday and basically everything my friends and I do around each other is considered abuse. God, I hate care bears. Not to mention they didn't seem to understand the idea of psychological baiting.

I will never understand. BUt that doesn't matter, I just have to know.