Neon Genesis EVANGELION FC [Archive]

Tomodachi69

09-10-2007, 08:39 AM

It took me far too long to get aznxenocide's reaction to my name. But! Now I do!

I'm supposed to start Third Impact, dammit!

Well, we haven't had 2nd Impact yet xp

Now, I'm a bit rusty on NGE, but Adam was originally going to be used by Seele to initiate Instrumentality, no? Perhaps you can clarify for me the role of Adam in any/all forms of Instrumentality. :/

I like Asuka's aggressive attitude. It's what Shinji needs; someone to boss around and to tell him to stop being such a wuss, because he sure can kick ass when he puts his mind to it.

Really, though, it's more that her aggression is a mask to hide her inner weaknesses and the complexities of her character that I like so much.

Goodness, I need to watch Eva again in order to remember character details. But anyway, Asuka's character as whole did make her interesting. Her screwed up past with her mother and her issues with acceptance added a lot of depth to her character, making her not just a whiny bitch.

I like Rei II more, though, because we got to see her grow. Haha, or not, but in any case, her development and interaction with the other characters were interesting, especially when looked at as a whole (Rei I, II, and III). Which is something I need to do sometime so I can provide better insight about her XP

I don't think anyone explicitly tells him, though he seems to almost make the connection himself. Also, Rei isn't quite a clone of his mom; half of her is Lilith, so it's not quite an Oedipus complex. More like a sister complex.

Their relationship is definitely more brother/sister than anything else, BUT, iirc, wasn't Rei specifically made to look like Yui? Hmm, I'll have to check on that, but even though she's not a complete clone because of her half-angel status, she does undeniably look like Yui. Therefore, wouldn't any attraction to her on Shinji's part constitute some sort of Oedipus complex because he is attracted to a physical lookalike of his mother?

How about a simple, biased "Which do you like better?" where people state which they like better, and whatever reason they have for liking one more. Kind of like what you did in your post.

Haha, I should do that, yes. xp

Rei or Asuka
Who's a better character and why?

I'll also edit it into my other post for anyone reading the thread from the beginning and posting immediately. -shrug-

Adam

09-10-2007, 05:36 PM

Well, we haven't had 2nd Impact yet xp

We did have Second Impact. SEELE just covered it up really well.

Now, I'm a bit rusty on NGE, but Adam was originally going to be used by Seele to initiate Instrumentality, no? Perhaps you can clarify for me the role of Adam in any/all forms of Instrumentality. :/

I'm also a bit rusty on NGE, but Instrumentality and Third Impact are basically the same thing. Just read the Wiki article on it if you forgot about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Impact#Third_Impact

Therefore, wouldn't any attraction to her on Shinji's part constitute some sort of Oedipus complex because he is attracted to a physical lookalike of his mother?

This depends on what attracts him to Rei and the nature of the attraction. If it's Rei being similar to his mother that draws him to her and it's a sexual attraction, then it's a full blown Oedipus Complex. Is Shinji doing all these? I'm not quite sure since Gainax likes to be vague about this sort of thing. I believe Shinji is supposed to have a semi-Oedipus Complex because he yearns for his mother, but he doesn't quite qualify for one since those yearnings don't seem to be sexual.

Tomodachi69

09-10-2007, 11:55 PM

We did have Second Impact. SEELE just covered it up really well.

Not well enough.
Second Impact (http://www.comcast.net/news/international/australia/index.jsp?cat=AUSTRALIA&fn=/2006/08/20/459239.html)

I'm also a bit rusty on NGE, but Instrumentality and Third Impact are basically the same thing. Just read the Wiki article on it if you forgot about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Impact#Third_Impact

Yea, the two are the same, but iirc, Seele and Gendo had different objectives in the initiation of Third Impact. IIRC (i need to rewatch), Seele wanted Third Impact to allow humanity to transcend their human forms or something, whereas Gendo wanted to create his own Third Impact to be reunited with Yui and become God or something.

About that wiki article, I don't think it covers Third Impact very well. Plus, it's a wiki on an anime, a fairly popular and highly debatable one, at that. Some of it is accurate, such as Shinji deciding to reject Instrumentality in EoE (not sure about in the series), but I don't ever recall Kowaru and Rei being the somewhat human counterparts of Adam and Lilith, respectively. IIRC, they were both made from Lilith.

This depends on what attracts him to Rei and the nature of the attraction. If it's Rei being similar to his mother that draws him to her and it's a sexual attraction, then it's a full blown Oedipus Complex. Is Shinji doing all these? I'm not quite sure since Gainax likes to be vague about this sort of thing. I believe Shinji is supposed to have a semi-Oedipus Complex because he yearns for his mother, but he doesn't quite qualify for one since those yearnings don't seem to be sexual.

Wait, Shinji can be sexually attracted to someone? XD
/shinji bashing

Again, I have to rewatch to be able to accurately provide insight, but doesn't his interaction with Rei during Third Impact (EoE) qualify as sexual? Then again, he had sex with Asuka and Misato, as well, as the three of them were the key women (and only women xD) in his life, and therefore, bonding with them sexually, the closest physical bond and removal of barriers (sim. to removal of AT fields?), uh, allowed him to be close. o___o'' Again, I'll have to rewatch in order to better provide insight. I don't recall how exactly that mindfuck sequence went because it was so deep and weird and hard to concentrate on after seeing Asuka get OWND, Shinji break down, and the MP Evas grow Rei heads and self crucify themselves while moaning ecstatically.

Speaking of EoE, what are your thoughts on the final scenes of post-Instrumentality? The sea of LCL, the graves (Misato's almost made me cry >>), the weird streak across the sky, the controversial Asuka/Shinji scene.

Adam

09-11-2007, 05:52 PM

Wait, Shinji can be sexually attracted to someone? XD
/shinji bashing

Well, he does masturbate after seeing a partially nude Asuka, which is what teenage boys tend to do when they're sexually attracted to someone (though, most teenagers have the sense not to do so in the other person's presence, whether or not they be comatose).

Again, I have to rewatch to be able to accurately provide insight, but doesn't his interaction with Rei during Third Impact (EoE) qualify as sexual? Then again, he had sex with Asuka and Misato, as well, as the three of them were the key women (and only women xD) in his life, and therefore, bonding with them sexually, the closest physical bond and removal of barriers (sim. to removal of AT fields?), uh, allowed him to be close.

First of all, End of Evangelion is messed up, and it's not really a good idea to try and infer anything from vague, pseudo-metaphors within it. Furthermore, Shinjii's clearly lost his marbles in the movie. Next, I'm not exactly sure which scene you're talking about as there's more than one that can be interpreted that way. And I was talking about attraction (what drives Shinji to get closer to Rei), not actual interactions (what Shinji does with Rei).

I think it's better to refer to the simpler, more clear TV series about this.

Speaking of EoE, what are your thoughts on the final scenes of post-Instrumentality? The sea of LCL, the graves (Misato's almost made me cry >>), the weird streak across the sky, the controversial Asuka/Shinji scene.

Ah, I read some official Gainax thing about those scenes, and I'm too lazy to write anything about post-Instrumentality. Also, I think I've read too many fanfics about it (people have little imagination). I'll see about getting back on this later.

FireCandy

09-11-2007, 05:53 PM

Joinage :D

aznxenocide

09-11-2007, 09:54 PM

Dude you guys remember way too much. >.<

I basically quit paying attention towards the end...I got waaay too confused. And yeah, floating Rei's are creeepppyy. That glass is cute though. Although hecka creepy. XD

Adam

09-12-2007, 04:33 AM

Dude you guys remember way too much. >.<

Well, I own the movie (and the series) on DVD and have watched it a couple of times. So, some things are kind of stuck in my head.

And welcome to FireCandy. I hope you enjoy turning into a puddle of LCL. Trust me, it's a blast.

Tomodachi69

09-12-2007, 05:45 AM

Well, he does masturbate after seeing a partially nude Asuka, which is what teenage boys tend to do when they're sexually attracted to someone (though, most teenagers have the sense not to do so in the other person's presence, whether or not they be comatose).

Personally, I've always interpretted his masturbation over Asuka's comatose body not as OMGHORNY!SHINJI, but rather, as Shinji letting instinct take over as a confused, lost form of comfort. Granted, he did do it because he was obviously attracted to her, but I personally wouldn't wank off to my naked hot friend in a locked hospital room :rofl:

I don't think Shinji would normally have done that, but I believe that up to that point, he was under loads of mental stress, esp after (iirc) seeing ChamberofGuf!Rei and their dissolving body parts, and not only dealing with the fact that he saw a tank of Reis dissolve, but he also lost Rei (II), with whom he had a close relationship. Then he lost Asuka, one of the other 'important' and daily people in his life. When he saw her naked boobs, I think he let instinct take over because he had no idea what else to do. His mind was just a mess and he recognized that he was "fucked up".

First of all, End of Evangelion is messed up, and it's not really a good idea to try and infer anything from vague, pseudo-metaphors within it. Furthermore, Shinjii's clearly lost his marbles in the movie. Next, I'm not exactly sure which scene you're talking about as there's more than one that can be interpreted that way. And I was talking about attraction (what drives Shinji to get closer to Rei), not actual interactions (what Shinji does with Rei).

I think it's better to refer to the simpler, more clear TV series about this.

lawl, EoE IS a huge mess of ambiguity, sexuality, metaphysics, and everything mind-boggling, but I think there are some things to be gleaned from that smorgasbord of mindrape. I'll get back to that when I do rewatch it, though xp

Hmm, going off of the less confusing series, then, you're right, Shinji's relationship with Rei (off the top of my head) was more sister/brother.

Ah, I read some official Gainax thing about those scenes, and I'm too lazy to write anything about post-Instrumentality. Also, I think I've read too many fanfics about it (people have little imagination). I'll see about getting back on this later.

Goodness, there're loads of interpretations of post-Instrumentality. Especially Asuka's line, "kimochi warui (how disgusting, lit. bad feeling)".

I don't feel like writing about it now, either, though xp

Dude you guys remember way too much. >.<

I basically quit paying attention towards the end...I got waaay too confused. And yeah, floating Rei's are creeepppyy. That glass is cute though. Although hecka creepy. XD

lawl, after reading about Rebuild and junk, the Eva fanboy in me was like OMG and all this NGE knowledge came back to me xp

I, too, have the 2 movies and the boxset, btw. I need to sit down adn watch it all straight through some time, though.

Btw, WELCOME FireCandy, and yes, do enjoy getting Tang-ized! =D

Adam

09-12-2007, 06:10 AM

Personally, I've always interpretted his masturbation over Asuka's comatose body not as OMGHORNY!SHINJI, but rather, as Shinji letting instinct take over as a confused, lost form of comfort. Granted, he did do it because he was obviously attracted to her, but I personally wouldn't wank off to my naked hot friend in a locked hospital room

Yeah, I agree with that. I was just giving a seemingly serious response to your stab at Shinji's apparently non-existent sexual interest in people by pointing out that Shinji has sexual urges like any teenager.

I don't think Shinji would normally have done that, but I believe that up to that point, he was under loads of mental stress, esp after (iirc) seeing ChamberofGuf!Rei and their dissolving body parts, and not only dealing with the fact that he saw a tank of Reis dissolve, but he also lost Rei (II), with whom he had a close relationship. Then he lost Asuka, one of the other 'important' and daily people in his life.

Don't forget the effect killing Kaworu had on Shinji.

lawl, EoE IS a huge mess of ambiguity, sexuality, metaphysics, and everything mind-boggling, but I think there are some things to be gleaned from that smorgasbord of mindrape. I'll get back to that when I do rewatch it, though xp

Hmm, going off of the less confusing series, then, you're right, Shinji's relationship with Rei (off the top of my head) was more sister/brother.

All this talk and the new movie coming out have makes me feel like watching the series (plus the movie) again, too. As Shinji is in pseudo-sexual situations with all three of the main female characters, I've interpreted that as a metaphor for Shinji's own uncertainty of who he's sexually attracted to (I'm very thankful Gainax didn't include Kaworu there), and the emphasis on Asuka as her being his greatest interest (he does choose to be with her at the end of the world, too, though I may have to scour the net for more evidence on this).

Shinji's relationship with Rei has always seemed like a manifestation of his desire to be with his mother to me (especially in the manga, but that's a different canon than the anime). I guess I could elaborate on this, but I'm a bit fuzzy on the details right now.

Goodness, there're loads of interpretations of post-Instrumentality. Especially Asuka's line, "kimochi warui (how disgusting, lit. bad feeling)".

Concerning that line, Yuko Miyamura (Japanese voice of Asuka) said this:

"Concerning the final line we adopted, I'm not sure whether I should say about it in fact. At last Anno asked me 'Miyamura, just imagine you are sleeping in your bed and a stranger sneaks into your room. He can rape you anytime as you are asleep but he doesn't. Instead, he masturbates looking at you, when you wake up and know what he did to you. What do you think you would say?' I had been thinking he was a strange man, but at that moment I felt disgusting. So I told him that I thought 'Disgusting.' And then he sighed and said, 'I thought as much."

Then, Tiffany Grant (English voice of Askua) said this:

"The most widely circulated translation of the last line of EoE [End of Evangelion] is "I feel sick," but Amanda Winn Lee (voice of Rei Ayanami, who also directed EoE) said she asked several translators, and she felt "disgusting" was the most accurate adaptation. You could say she is disgusted with/sick of the situation or with Shinji himself. My favorite explanation though, is this one: My husband, Matt Greenfield, directed the TV series and is very familiar with the whole Eva franchise. Matt has said that although (Eva creator) Hideaki Anno seems to change his mind frequently about what various things mean in Eva, Anno once said that Asuka's comment about feeling "sick" was a reference to morning sickness. Now THAT gives ya something to think about, doesn't it! Of course, Anno is quite passionate about the idea that every person should decide for him or herself what Eva means to them."

Ah, that "How disgusting" sure is highly debated.

Planeswalker

09-12-2007, 06:17 AM

Tomodachi69

09-12-2007, 06:28 AM

Yeah, I agree with that. I was just giving a seemingly serious response to your stab at Shinji's apparently non-existent sexual interest in people by pointing out that Shinji has sexual urges like any teenager.

Ah, I was just giving Shinji a friendly lil character bashing, that's all xp

[...] As Shinji is in pseudo-sexual situations with all three of the main female characters, I've interpreted that as a metaphor for Shinji's own uncertainty of who he's sexually attracted to (I'm very thankful Gainax didn't include Kaworu there), and the emphasis on Asuka as her being his greatest interest (he does choose to be with her at the end of the world, too, though I may have to scour the net for more evidence on this).

LOL @ the Kowaru part :roflmao:

Asuka = Shinji's greatest interest... I can agree with this because I do feel that Asuka is a better partner for Shinji than Rei or (cough) Misato. She's an excellent Yin to his Yang (lol) and is also the most appropriate candidate for Shinji's girlfriend/partner/mate. Unlike Rei, she's an actual person, and unlike Misato, she's his age, can better relate to him, and shares a closer relationship because of their experiences together, piloting and otherwise.

Concerning that line, Yuko Miyamura (Japanese voice of Asuka) said this:

"Concerning the final line we adopted, I'm not sure whether I should say about it in fact. At last Anno asked me 'Miyamura, just imagine you are sleeping in your bed and a stranger sneaks into your room. He can rape you anytime as you are asleep but he doesn't. Instead, he masturbates looking at you, when you wake up and know what he did to you. What do you think you would say?' I had been thinking he was a strange man, but at that moment I felt disgusting. So I told him that I thought 'Disgusting.' And then he sighed and said, 'I thought as much."

Then, Tiffany Grant (English voice of Askua) said this:

"The most widely circulated translation of the last line of EoE [End of Evangelion] is "I feel sick," but Amanda Winn Lee (voice of Rei Ayanami, who also directed EoE) said she asked several translators, and she felt "disgusting" was the most accurate adaptation. You could say she is disgusted with/sick of the situation or with Shinji himself. My favorite explanation though, is this one: My husband, Matt Greenfield, directed the TV series and is very familiar with the whole Eva franchise. Matt has said that although (Eva creator) Hideaki Anno seems to change his mind frequently about what various things mean in Eva, Anno once said that Asuka's comment about feeling "sick" was a reference to morning sickness. Now THAT gives ya something to think about, doesn't it! Of course, Anno is quite passionate about the idea that every person should decide for him or herself what Eva means to them."

Ah, that "How disgusting" sure is highly debated.

LAWL @ Amanda Winn Lee. Atm, I harbor a dislike for her because of general dislike for her at the Trivial Beings forum by all the really hardcore fans, but I'll go and listen to the commentary for Death, Rebirth, and EoE sometime so I can have my own opinion, as well.

In any case, IIRC, Anno NEVER said anything about morning sickness. That comment was, in fact (iirc), made and theorized by some obscure otaku who ended doing a little commentary on the platinum releases of NGE.

Also, regarding the first quote, I believe there is somewhere that hints Asuka knowing about Shinji's playtime, though, that knowledge could be the first thing that popped up in her mind after seeing Shinji post-3I.

Post instrumentality is meh...Shinji and Asuka are made out to look like Adam and Eve...though really all humans should be back. Instrumentality begins...humans turn into a collective orange goo. Shinji wants to reverse it...humans become individuals again. So I find that ending deceptive trickery XP

IIRC, if humans wish to return from 3I, they can. The will to live enables them to choose 3I or their former state of being human and separate, and therefore able to LIVE, not merely exist as a godly piece of metabiological tang xp

Also (iirc), Shinji refuses to join 3I because he'd rather live, though, whether that means he reversed the process so everyone comes back or not is uncertain. It would appear that, as aforementioned above, everyone is given the choice to remain 'whole and homogenous (yogurt, ref. Heroes XD)' or to return to humanity.

Personally, I support that theory because when Asuka returns, Shinji has already made graves and he's looking at bit worn out (i think? again, need to rewatch). In any case, he made graves and I think he was lying down somewhere for a while, when he saw Rei III appear and disappear in Godly freakiness, but I digress. I support the theory because I personally believe that Asuka chose to return on her own accord. Ties in somewhat with her whole "I don't want to die!!" attitude, which, yea, everyone has, but, imo, to a lesser degree.

Before I delve any further into the massive mess of NGE, I think we should watch the series again, ne? xP There's a little too much IIRC and 'need to rewatch' going on :p

Adam

09-12-2007, 08:40 PM

Post instrumentality is meh...Shinji and Asuka are made out to look like Adam and Eve...though really all humans should be back. Instrumentality begins...humans turn into a collective orange goo. Shinji wants to reverse it...humans become individuals again. So I find that ending deceptive trickery XP

Well, of course everything is going to be simple if you generalize things like this. It's why these events happen that tend to confuse people.

LOL @ the Kowaru part :roflmao:

Gainax can be pretty shameless with their fan service, so it would have been very much like them to put even more suggestive scenes with Kaworu.

Asuka = Shinji's greatest interest... I can agree with this because I do feel that Asuka is a better partner for Shinji than Rei or (cough) Misato. She's an excellent Yin to his Yang (lol) and is also the most appropriate candidate for Shinji's girlfriend/partner/mate. Unlike Rei, she's an actual person, and unlike Misato, she's his age, can better relate to him, and shares a closer relationship because of their experiences together, piloting and otherwise.

Shinji is alienated from Rei (because the Rei he knew died, and the whole clone thing) and Misato (she becomes distant from him after Kaji dies), so he reaches out to Asuka in End of Evangelion. It’s more things like this that made me say that Asuka is the one he has the most romantic interest in. It is true that Asuka is the character he shares the most similarities with, though.

Also, regarding the first quote, I believe there is somewhere that hints Asuka knowing about Shinji's playtime, though, that knowledge could be the first thing that popped up in her mind after seeing Shinji post-3I.

Uh, like what? I don’t remember anything suggestive of that.

New topic: What's your favorite episode of Evangelion?

Mine is Episode Nine, Both of You, Dance Like You Want to Win!

Tomodachi69

09-14-2007, 06:48 AM

Uh, like what? I don’t remember anything suggestive of that.

New topic: What's your favorite episode of Evangelion?

Mine is Episode Nine, Both of You, Dance Like You Want to Win!

-sigh- I can't find the site where I found the scene, but supposedly, during the EoE train scenes, Asuka mentions that she knows Shinji had playtime. I believe she says something to the effect of her knowing he used her, but I think that got lost in translation and therefore it's not as obvious in the dub that Asuka is aware of Shinji's playtime while she was comatose.

It sorta makes sense, though, since during 3I, everyone was one, right? Because the AT fields no longer existed, there was no longer a barrier separating anyone from each other, and therefore, it makes sense that they would be able to access each other's thoughts since there is no longer a sense of priviacy or boundary.

I think XD

But anyway... favorite episode?
I'm tied between ep16 Splitting of the Breast and ep19 INTROJECTION.

ep16 because I loved Leliel and how Eva01 TORE her open XD
ep19 because that episode was pure awesome. Zeruel vs. Eva01 + s2 engine acquisition + Eva02, Eva00 fights... I can't wait to see them again in Rebuild.

Adam

09-14-2007, 08:03 AM

-sigh- I can't find the site where I found the scene, but supposedly, during the EoE train scenes, Asuka mentions that she knows Shinji had playtime. I believe she says something to the effect of her knowing he used her, but I think that got lost in translation and therefore it's not as obvious in the dub that Asuka is aware of Shinji's playtime while she was comatose.

It sorta makes sense, though, since during 3I, everyone was one, right? Because the AT fields no longer existed, there was no longer a barrier separating anyone from each other, and therefore, it makes sense that they would be able to access each other's thoughts since there is no longer a sense of priviacy or boundary.

I think XD

Well, I'm of the mind that most of End of Evangelion occurred in Shinij's head, and that the Asuka that appears is an Asuka that he's merely imagining and isn't a true representation of what Asuka knows or how she feels.

I'll have to watch it again (could take a while since I'm only up to Episode Eight) to see if that train scene is before or after everyone's AT Fields go away. Regardless, Third Impact would explain Asuka knowing about what Shinji did.

And Sixteen and Nineteen are both great episodes. Definitely better than five through seven.

Tomodachi69

09-16-2007, 08:19 AM

It's gonna take me a while to really rewatch the series since I'm in school again. IMO, in EoE, whether or not anything happened in Shinji's mind is irrelavent becuase it's effectively happening in everyone's mind. During 3I, everyone's AT field disintegrated and therefore became one being. The barrier that separates our minds and allowed them to be separate entities no longer existed, so any sort of interaction between characters during 3I wouldn't merely be so-and-so's interpretation (iirc).

You may argue that Misato died before 3I was initiated and therefore, her presence nullifies the theory that everyone's mind is one, but, IMO, Rei collected her ego, id, w/e before she died, just as she had during 3I itself.

For Rei to do that, however, one would have to accept the theory that Rei III is able to bend space/time. Remember, Rei III is the one who merged with Lilith and effectively became a god. Therefore, as a omniscient and omnipotent being, she would be able to appear to Shinji before Sachiel's attack, before Misato when she died, and before Ritsuko when she was shot, even though Rei III either didn't exist at the time or was known to be in another area.

Another great pair of episodes are the ones with Armisael (Director's cut ver) and Asuka's mind rape by Arael. I forgot the ep numbers =X

Adam

09-16-2007, 06:45 PM

Tomodachi69

09-16-2007, 08:55 PM

http://projectenthalpy.com/CallFromShinji.mp3

This is made of absolute win. I was ROLLING with laughter. Genius.

otakufan

09-16-2007, 10:31 PM

Joinage!

With regards to the Rei vs. Asuka question, that's complicated... Up until I got the past few manga volumes (8, 9, and 10), I would have said Asuka in a heartbeat and left it at that, however Rei (particularly Sadamoto's version of Rei) has been growing on me recently.

Ultimately, I think I still have to go with Asuka (as, her emotional issues aside, I tend to like strong female characters with a fierce independent streak), however manga Rei's personality growth has me very intrigued. I hope she keeps it up in the upcoming volumes (even though they won't be out for years... >_> ).

Adam

09-17-2007, 05:12 AM

Welcome, otakufan. If you insert yourself into an Evangelion fanfic, try not to go berserk in your Eva and kill the main cast since no one really cares about self-insert characters. This goes for everyone!

http://projectenthalpy.com/CallFromShinji.mp3

This is made of absolute win. I was ROLLING with laughter. Genius.

It was okay, but it would have been better if the person being called wasn’t laughing so much.

However manga Rei's personality growth has me very intrigued. I hope she keeps it up in the upcoming volumes (even though they won't be out for years... >_> ).

Well, Rei kind of dies and gets replaced by a new character (Rei III), so that sort of resets her character development. And I’ve always thought it was pathetic that she needs to develop a personality; characters are supposed to have those before a series begins.

otakufan

09-17-2007, 03:16 PM

Welcome, otakufan. If you insert yourself into an Evangelion fanfic, try not to go berserk in your Eva and kill the main cast since no one really cares about self-insert characters. This goes for everyone!
I think I'm a little too sane to be able to pilot an Eva, forget getting it to go Berserk on me. :p

Besides, I've never cared for self-insert. I do tend to create plenty of original characters, though...

Well, Rei kind of dies and gets replaced by a new character (Rei III), so that sort of resets her character development.
In the anime, the death of Rei II does effectively kill off her development as a character, making Rei III more of a plot device. However, when Rei II dies in the manga (Volume 10), Rei III appears to have some residual memories that, if I recall correctly (haven't watched the relevant episode recently), she didn't have in the anime.

Of course, it's up to Sadamoto to take it further (hence why I said I hope he does). It could add some interesting new insight into the events of the Third Impact.

And I’ve always thought it was pathetic that she needs to develop a personality; characters are supposed to have those before a series begins.
Well, Rei is a rather special case. Ignoring the fact that she is physically dependent on Commander Ikari and Dr. Akagi for survival (she will die without regular treatments from Ritsuko), she has been kept isolated from the rest of the world for nearly all of her life. She has grown up alone, and has emotionally latched onto Gendo, the only person who ever seemed to care about her, even a little. She has been raised to know only that which she needs to and nothing else, to follow orders and never ask questions. Rei was conditioned from the start to be a perfectly controllable puppet for NERV.

Her growth in this case is more about how the introduction of new people into her daily life, particularly Shinji, affects her and causes her to open up (a bit). To slowly start changing from her doll-like existence into a proper human being in her own right.

I guess what I like about Rei is that she is something of a work-in-progress. While Shinji, Asuka, and the other characters have parts of their personalities that are revealed over time, Rei is only just beginning to discover who she really is.

That's my take on it, at least...

Now then, any guesses as to when Evangelion:1.0 will be out (RAW, SUB, and/or U.S. release)?

Adam

09-17-2007, 08:04 PM

I think I'm a little too sane to be able to pilot an Eva, forget getting it to go Berserk on me. :p

Besides, I've never cared for self-insert. I do tend to create plenty of original characters, though...

What? Do you actually write Evangelion fanfiction? If you do, you need to supply links.

In the anime, the death of Rei II does effectively kill off her development as a character, making Rei III more of a plot device. However, when Rei II dies in the manga (Volume 10), Rei III appears to have some residual memories that, if I recall correctly (haven't watched the relevant episode recently), she didn't have in the anime.

Of course, it's up to Sadamoto to take it further (hence why I said I hope he does). It could add some interesting new insight into the events of the Third Impact.

Well, Rei joins up with Lilith in Third Impact (in the movie), and I'm sort of doubting Sadamoto will go much further with her since he can't really top Rei II's death in Volume 10. Plus, there's still other major characters that have been glossed over in the recent volumes (Asuka, Misato) that could really use more focus in the manga.

I guess what I like about Rei is that she is something of a work-in-progress. While Shinji, Asuka, and the other characters have parts of their personalities that are revealed over time, Rei is only just beginning to discover who she really is.

This is precisely why I don’t like Rei. This type of development is way too unrealistic for my liking, and I find it impossible to connect with such impossible characters.

Now then, any guesses as to when Evangelion:1.0 will be out (RAW, SUB, and/or U.S. release)?

There's a thread for discussion of the movies here:

http://bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?t=1659

And, so far, no word as to when the movie will be released in North America (it hasn't been licensed yet), and people seem to be waiting for it to come out on DVD in Japan before they release a RAW for it.

otakufan

09-17-2007, 09:09 PM

What? Do you actually write Evangelion fanfiction? If you do, you need to supply links.
I worked on one years ago, but didn't get very far... The fervor over Rebuild has got me thinking about revisiting it. If I do, I probably post links here.

Well, Rei joins up with Lilith in Third Impact (in the movie), and I'm sort of doubting Sadamoto will go much further with her since he can't really top Rei II's death in Volume 10. Plus, there's still other major characters that have been glossed over in the recent volumes (Asuka, Misato) that could really use more focus in the manga.
Well, if I recall correctly, Sadamoto has Anno's blessing to direct the manga in any way he sees fit, so it could end in a very different manner than the anime (likely more in the details than the overarching storyline).

I do agree that Asuka needs more focus (although it's understandably hard to do since she's currently comatose) as the story draws to a close, but Misato doesn't really have much further to go. She was never really more than a guardian for Shinji, particularly in the manga.

This is precisely why I don’t like Rei. This type of development is way too unrealistic for my liking, and I find it impossible to connect with such impossible characters.
*Shrugs* To each his own then. Something about how Sadamoto writes Rei and her relationship to Shinji just "clicked" for me, far better than her anime counterpart.

There's a thread for discussion of the movies here:

http://bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?t=1659

And, so far, no word as to when the movie will be released in North America (it hasn't been licensed yet), and people seem to be waiting for it to come out on DVD in Japan before they release a RAW for it.
Yeah, I suspected as much, but thought I'd ask anyway.

laurie b.

10-17-2007, 12:18 AM

I would like to join, please :) I just totally have to because NGE is the reason I vowed never to watch anime again because I felt that after it, nothing could come to having its narrative depth, its rich use of symbols and its sheer poetic insanity.

Suffice to say I only kept my promise not to watch anime for... hmm. Six years. Totally dry sober, from 1997 to 2002. Not bad, really.

I'm in the middle of re-watching the original series that f*cked me up, and then I'm going to tackle the old movies and the manga. So I'm avoiding all the spoilers for the new movie because I'm really rusty on my stuff.

http://projectenthalpy.com/CallFromShinji.mp3

This is made of absolute win. I was ROLLING with laughter. Genius.

That was the weirdest thing I've ever heard! :eek: Well, for one thing, I've only watched NGE with subs. God, is THAT the real English language dub? That voice was HORRIBLE for Shinji. I mean, he's a wimp but the Japanese voice actor didn't sound like Michael Jackson on crack.

Adam

10-17-2007, 08:22 PM

Welcome, Laurie! I give kudos to myself for successfully plugging this thread, and to you for taking the bait.

Oh, and I didn't think anyone would want to claim Shinji, so I delayed in doing so myself. So, thanks a lot for ruining my plan of claiming Shinji and forcing him and Asuka (who I did claim) to be together.

I just totally have to because NGE is the reason I vowed never to watch anime again because I felt that after it, nothing could come to having its narrative depth, its rich use of symbols and its sheer poetic insanity.

I've never really understood vowing to never watch another movie/ read another book/ play another video game/ watch another anime because you've seen something that looks like the best. It's really unfair to other authors in the medium, in my opinion, to make assumptions like that, not to mention I believe the one making the vow really does a disservice to him/herself. So I'm glad you couldn't remain faithful to your decision not to watch another anime again (I wouldn't have even heard of you if you hadn't).

As far as other series with symbolism and poetic insanity go, I think Ergo Proxy tops Evangelion in that regard. Though, I'm not sure that's really a good thing because people frequently complain about that series being way too confusing.

I'm in the middle of re-watching the original series that f*cked me up, and then I'm going to tackle the old movies and the manga. So I'm avoiding all the spoilers for the new movie because I'm really rusty on my stuff.

None of the information about the first new movie is really a spoiler since it follows the first six episodes/ first three manga volumes pretty faithfully, or so I hear. It's the three movies after that one you'll have to avoid spoilers for. Also, I'm pretty excited about the new movie; at the very least, its animation will kick ass.

laurie b.

10-18-2007, 06:20 AM

Welcome, Laurie! I give kudos to myself for successfully plugging this thread, and to you for taking the bait.

Oh, I take the bait if it's tempting enough. It's keeping my interest that's the challenge.

Oh, and I didn't think anyone would want to claim Shinji, so I delayed in doing so myself. So, thanks a lot for ruining my plan of claiming Shinji and forcing him and Asuka (who I did claim) to be together.

I had assumed that no one claimed Shinji because he's a wimpy anti-hero. But then again I always had a soft spot for the absolute underdog. Case in point: my favorite Jane Austen heroine is Fanny Price (Mansfield Park), who is universally LOATHED by Austen readers -- except for me. Come to think of it, she's the 18th century female equivalent of Shinji!

As far as other series with symbolism and poetic insanity go, I think Ergo Proxy tops Evangelion in that regard. Though, I'm not sure that's really a good thing because people frequently complain about that series being way too confusing.

Confusing? Lead me to it. Suddenly my reading list is getting much longer.

None of the information about the first new movie is really a spoiler since it follows the first six episodes/ first three manga volumes pretty faithfully, or so I hear. It's the three movies after that one you'll have to avoid spoilers for. Also, I'm pretty excited about the new movie; at the very least, its animation will kick ass.

That's good to know. Still, I want to have the facts of the original series all sorted out in my head before I plunge headlong into the new version. I do tend to view earlier work as canon, I am not sure if this is a good attitude to take given something as convoluted as NGE.

Just so this post isn't totally dead and boring, I unearthed an old file I have kept with me all these years: vintage NGE fanart! At least I think it's fanart. Back then, I really didn't make a distinction between these things.

http://pics.livejournal.com/laurie_bunter/pic/00009hg9

I also have one of Shinji looking quite fetching in his spandex somewhere... but I highly doubt if anyone else wants to see that one.

Adam

10-18-2007, 07:57 AM

Oh, I take the bait if it's tempting enough. It's keeping my interest that's the challenge.

Considering that there's four movies coming out in the near future, a manga that seriously should have finished years ago, and at least one fan at this forum (yours truly) that can't get enough Neon Genesis Evangelion, your interest should be kept...for a few days.

I had assumed that no one claimed Shinji because he's a wimpy anti-hero. But then again I always had a soft spot for the absolute underdog.

Yes, that is why nobody claimed him before you, though I've always liked him because of his excellent complexity. I also enjoyed how unique Shinji was among pilots of giant robots because, seriously, most fifteen-year-olds would probably be more like Shinji Ikari than the standard Gundam protagonist if they were forced to pilot a giant robot (much as they might like to think otherwise).

Confusing? Lead me to it. Suddenly my reading list is getting much longer.

It's fairly dark so some call it Emo Proxy as a joke, and it wasn't much of a success. You might enjoy it if you go into without too many expectations.

That's good to know. Still, I want to have the facts of the original series all sorted out in my head before I plunge headlong into the new version. I do tend to view earlier work as canon, I am not sure if this is a good attitude to take given something as convoluted as NGE.

Well, Evangelion is apparently going to have three separate canons (TV series+EoE, manga, and RoE), so I think it’s kind of an unnecessary attitude. However, there’s nothing wrong with watching Evangelion again (I did that about a month ago).

Just so this post isn't totally dead and boring, I unearthed an old file I have kept with me all these years: vintage NGE fanart! At least I think it's fanart. Back then, I really didn't make a distinction between these things.

That might be official since it looks like Sadamoto’s art style. Then again, his is fairly easy to emulate. I could probably do it myself if I wasn't more interested in more realistic art styles.

FireCandy

10-18-2007, 05:07 PM

I'll join too xD

cocochub

10-18-2007, 05:46 PM

i would definitely like to join! NGE was one of the main reasons I got into anime. it got me thinking very in-depth about the plot and characters more than any other anime.

Adam

10-18-2007, 06:24 PM

Hey, FireCandy, you already joined this fan club! And welcome, cocochub.

FireCandy

10-18-2007, 06:35 PM

No way O_O

It was saying that I didn't post here O_o

Never mind

Adam

10-19-2007, 07:19 AM

Fanart bump.

It's a quick ink wash of Shinji I did.

http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copyofshinjiikariau7.jpg

laurie b.

10-19-2007, 03:25 PM

Adam

10-20-2007, 04:20 AM

Adam - I like this. Nice job with the even shadows on Shinji's cheeks and I adore the little squiggly line in his ear. I can see where your hand hesitated over the hair and the line of the neck. But ink is really tricky anyway, and since I draw the human form like Rukia I really shouldn't be harsh.

Thanks for the feedback. Do you mean you draw like Rukia does, or do you mean you draw people that look like Rukia? I'm guessing the former.

Here's another fanart I did of Rei with chalk. Yay.

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copyofreiayanamiaf8.jpg

I don't like the eye very much. Oh, and I'm in a drawing mood. If someone names a character, I'll draw that character and post it here so long as it's not Asuka (I'm already going to draw her).

laurie b.

10-20-2007, 03:18 PM

Do I detect a certain affection for Rei here? I thought you were an Asuka man. It's well-executed. You obviously spent more time on her than you did on Shinji. (Perhaps it's the medium, there really is more control over chalk than ink.) I like the highlights in her hair, it's natural -- the scratch marks are nice.

I'm not sure if Rei's head can turn so far given the position of her neck. I have to agree with you, not giving her an eyeball is also disconcerting. Still, a beautiful piece. :)

Since you said you would take requests, here's one I would love to see: Ikari senior contemplating Pen Pen. Let's say it's the first time they ever meet.

Adam

10-21-2007, 05:42 AM

Here's a FAQ I found that I liked that covers a bunch of noob questions:

http://celeste.cn/evafaq.html

There's a few answers that I find quite informative.

Do I detect a certain affection for Rei here? I thought you were an Asuka man. It's well-executed. You obviously spent more time on her than you did on Shinji. (Perhaps it's the medium, there really is more control over chalk than ink.) I like the highlights in her hair, it's natural -- the scratch marks are nice.

I'm not sure if Rei's head can turn so far given the position of her neck. I have to agree with you, not giving her an eyeball is also disconcerting. Still, a beautiful piece. :)

I would say it's more like affection towards drawing, rather than Rei. It's true that heads don't really bend that way, but Rei's head seems to defy logic frequently in the Sadamoto drawings I looked at.

Since you said you would take requests, here's one I would love to see: Ikari senior contemplating Pen Pen. Let's say it's the first time they ever meet.

Since I like how you commented on my drawings, I accepted this request (it's also the only one). It's a very white, inkwash+ micron pen and I tried to make it look epic and fateful by giving them odd shadows. Not sure it really worked out, and there's a bunch of flaws (you can see the old outline for Gendou's shoulder, his head is too big, Pen Pen should be lower in the drawing, etc) but I think it turned out all right.

http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=genpenny2.jpg

And I think I'll stop doing a drawing a day and slow things down a bit to work on other things now. I wouldn't want to burn myself and make my Tuesday morning nudie drawing class hell.

laurie b.

10-21-2007, 02:52 PM

Here's a FAQ I found that I liked that covers a bunch of noob questions: http://celeste.cn/evafaq.html

There's a few answers that I find quite informative.

Thanks for the link :D I will read through it later. I hope you are not implying, in any way, that I am a noob. I know you have a talent of innuendos.

I would say it's more like affection towards drawing, rather than Rei. It's true that heads don't really bend that way, but Rei's head seems to defy logic frequently in the Sadamoto drawings I looked at.

An affection towards drawing is healthy. Affection towards nude drawing classes, even more so. Don't be bothered by my pointing out the physical impossibility of Rei turning her head that way. If I remember correctly, Ingres' defended his "La Grand Odalisque" by saying he was "correcting nature" -- he gave the nude an extra vertebrae to make the line of her spine more elegant.

Since I like how you commented on my drawings, I accepted this request (it's also the only one). It's a very white, inkwash+ micron pen and I tried to make it look epic and fateful by giving them odd shadows. Not sure it really worked out, and there's a bunch of flaws (you can see the old outline for Gendou's shoulder, his head is too big, Pen Pen should be lower in the drawing, etc) but I think it turned out all right.

Oh my. I can't believe you actually drew it. I wasn't kidding but I assumed you would refuse. I love it! The composition is fantastic. I don't think Gendou's head is too big; it actually still follows the classical proportions of the head being 1/7th the size of the figure's total height. The shadows have fine, controlled strokes, and the light shadow across the page leads from Gendou's eyes to Pen Pen's, giving the whole piece some unity. Yeah, the penguin should be a little lower, but he's got such an adorable "WTF, are you looking at ME?!" Robert de Niro expression on his face it just totally cracked me up. And God knows I needed something to smile about. So thank you. :D

My only nitpick, really, is that I hope that's Ikari senior's hand in his pocket... and he's not, er... happy to see Pen Pen, with strange designs upon the poor animal. Pen Pen looks like he has such nice soft fur, too. :) Maybe that's it...

I would totally glomp you right now except there may be lurkers reading.

laurie b.

10-23-2007, 08:45 AM

Finally got around getting my DVD of NGE to work. My DVD player has a mind of its own and only works when it wants to.

I think Episode 19 was, and still is, my favorite episode. I had totally forgotten the primal moment of Eva-01 eating like a wild animal. Re-generating her own arm was icing on the cake. The visceral sense of disgust I felt mirrored the expression on Misato's face. What a classic scene.

I had also totally forgotten that Rei looks exactly like Yui without her warmth, and that young Gendou looks like Shinji with more guts and a backbone.

After reading the FAQ and re-watching the Kaji's murder scene, I don't think Misato could have killed him. She didn't trust him 100% but she couldn't have hurt him. It's love, not guilt, that causes that kind of breakdown.

Also, I was smiling to myself every time the old fogies of SEELE kept mentioning the prophecies of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Now, I've been reading "the Dead Sea Scroll Bible" (the scholarly version by Abegg, Flint, and Ulrich) on and off, for the past couple of months now. And I have to say, it's the farthest thing from a prophetic document anyone could dream of.

Basically, most of the Dead Sea Scrolls are different versions of the Torah and other books of the Old Testament -- it's linguistically important because it predates all the Latin/Greek/Rabbinic texts used as the basis for all modern English translations of the Bible. A lot of odd new passages show up, but still, most of it's quite familiar (if you're a Judeo-Christian background.) I've been reading it on and off because it is, in a word, boring.

So Adam, the FAQ you posted is totally accurate regarding the religion question. It's like the creators just heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls, thought it was cool and tossed it in the mix, only to drive English-speaking Christian fans nuts over symbolism that really isn't there. In a strange way, it's a reverse form of Orientalism, the fetishizing of the obscure.

Of course, I'm only making these connections ten years after I first watched the show, so I feel foolish. But better delayed enlightenment than none at all.

Some nice lines from episodes 21 (or 22?) that caused me to pause my DVD and write them down. So some NGE thoughts for the day:

"The fiction has become a reality. How ironic the experiment's advocate became its victim." -- on Asuka's mother

"Why does a weapon need a mind? It just gives you trouble!" -- Asuka yelling at Eva 02. (I can imagine Kenpachi saying exactly the same thing to his zapankutou.)

Adam

10-23-2007, 09:18 PM

Shinji needs therapy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPnlxUoDN-M

Thanks for the link :D I will read through it later. I hope you are not implying, in any way, that I am a noob. I know you have a talent of innuendos.

What? Geez, and I put it before I replied to your post so you wouldn't misunderstand that. I don't know enough about how much you know about Evangelion to know whether or not your knowledge of Evangelion can be considered noobish...you know?

My only nitpick, really, is that I hope that's Ikari senior's hand in his pocket... and he's not, er... happy to see Pen Pen, with strange designs upon the poor animal. Pen Pen looks like he has such nice soft fur, too. :) Maybe that's it...

At first, I was going to draw Gendou watching Pen Pen in a pot of boiling water, but then I figured that would be somewhat complex and I needed to draw their initial meeting to set up that scene.

I think Episode 19 was, and still is, my favorite episode. I had totally forgotten the primal moment of Eva-01 eating like a wild animal. Re-generating her own arm was icing on the cake. The visceral sense of disgust I felt mirrored the expression on Misato's face. What a classic scene.

Ah, that one's still a distant second to nine for me...unless you count End of Evangelion, since Air is love and win, heads and shoulders above the rest(oh, that animation!). Still, Episode 19 has one of the best "Aww, ****!" moments in the series.

I had also totally forgotten that Rei looks exactly like Yui without her warmth, and that young Gendou looks like Shinji with more guts and a backbone.

Well, that's one of my problems with Rei. She doesn't smile enough (and when she does, it's creepy). And young Gendou reminds me of a lot of Shinjis I've seen in bad fanfiction (I swear, people cannot resist destroying his character). Also, some people turn Shinji into a Kaji clone in fanfiction; what's up with that? And they'll suddenly change his musical preferences to match their own, disregarding the series' canon and every month or so someone writes a "What if Shinji was more manly" reworking of Evangelion. And you know what? They all suck as much as the first one written years ago, only that one at least had some originality! Then there's those that somehow make Shinji wimpier than he actually is ("A-A-A-Asuka? A-a-ano? W-w-w-w-w-what a-a-a-are you...d-d-d-doing?" Shinji doesn't stutter that much, God dammit!) and that's bad, too. Oh, and don't get me started on the horrible "new" pilots that are all a bunch of crappy Mary Sues and poorly disguised self-inserts! And then when the planets align and somebody finally writes something that kicks ass, that story gets put on infinite hiatus just to spite me! Rabble rabble!

Yes, it was nice when I started reading Eva fanfiction and I didn't care too much about bad spelling or characters straying way too far from the source. Wait, why did I start ranting about this? Uh, I like Whipped by Fresh C. I think it's funny.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3263747/1/Whipped

"I'm so going to milk this cow!"

"Why does a weapon need a mind? It just gives you trouble!" -- Asuka yelling at Eva 02. (I can imagine Kenpachi saying exactly the same thing to his zapankutou.)

Except I don't think Kenpachi's sword has his dead mother's soul within it.

Adam

10-27-2007, 06:58 AM

New post to pimp out my new Evangelion fanfic:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3857296/1/Spinal_Accord

It's rated "M" for suggestive content, use of alcohol, profanity, and violence. Uh, and it's a comedy.

laurie b.

10-27-2007, 02:02 PM

Sorry took more than a day to reply. Wanted to finish the TV series before posting again, so I would actually have something new to say.

At first, I was going to draw Gendou watching Pen Pen in a pot of boiling water, but then I figured that would be somewhat complex and I needed to draw their initial meeting to set up that scene.

I'm glad you didn't cook the penguin. DO NOT COOK PEN PEN. Didn't you read Alice in Wonderland? You're not supposed to eat anything you've been properly introduced to. :p

Well, that's one of my problems with Rei. She doesn't smile enough (and when she does, it's creepy).

Yes, she does have a creepy smile, but if you've been killed and reborn so many times, I think it would take a toll on your facial muscles. I mean, Gendou didn't give her much to smile about in the first place. He didn't even furnish her with a decent-looking apartment which I believe is the least he could have done.

And young Gendou reminds me of a lot of Shinjis I've seen in bad fanfiction (I swear, people cannot resist destroying his character). Also, some people turn Shinji into a Kaji clone in fanfiction; what's up with that?

I find it disturbing that so many people view Kaji as a ladies' man. Yeah, he's a horrible flirt, but you never actually see him getting it on with anyone aside from Misato. (Remember, I haven't reviewed the movies yet, so I may be wrong with this statement.) But with the TV series it's clear who's the real Cassanova is: it's Gendo.

Think about it. Who in the TV series has fallen in love with him? You have Naoko Akagi, her daughter Dr. Ritsuko, Yui AND all the Rei clones.

What's horrible about Gendo is that he totally wrecks these women apart emotionally. I mean, come on, what kind of sick man manages to have an affair with a colleague and her daughter, and manipulate both of them? He drives Naoko to suicide and he stuffs his dead wife's soul into Eva. He keeps bringing Rei back to life, even when it comes down to Rei III she seems like she would rather remain dead and almost despises him for bringing her back.

I don't even know how he manages to seduce all of them, he's not even good-looking...

The more I think about it, it's not Shinji who needs therapy, it's his dad. He's a menace to all women.

Argh. I would continue ranting but it's not healthy. I'll save it for my next post.

Adam

10-27-2007, 10:33 PM

Another AMV, this one's my new favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFc3rLMYyKY

It's to Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb," and I find David Gilmour's melancholy really suits NGE, EoE, Asuka and Shinji. The video has some excellent editing to match the visuals with the lyrics and speed/ mood of the song.

You're not supposed to eat anything you've been properly introduced to. :p

You should have told this to me before I ate my cat.

He didn't even furnish her with a decent-looking apartment which I believe is the least he could have done.

Ah, that doesn't matter when everyone's just going to disintegrate into big puddles of goop. Also, Rei II could have gotten a better apartment and cleaned it up; it seems like she chose to have it in its poor state.

I find it disturbing that so many people view Kaji as a ladies' man. Yeah, he's a horrible flirt, but you never actually see him getting it on with anyone aside from Misato.

I view Kaji as a man that wants to be a ladies' man, but doesn't quite have what it takes (too much conscience and love for Misato gets in his way).

He drives Naoko to suicide and he stuffs his dead wife's soul into Eva.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it wasn't his intention to have Yui's soul get trapped in Unit-01 (what with how obsessed he is to reunite with her and how much he changes after that incident), and Naoko's guilt for strangling Rei I seems to be what drove her to suicide. Though, it's quite horrible he doesn't give a damn that she died. Oh well, it's not like Naoko was a saint, either (killing children is bad, last time I checked).

The more I think about it, it's not Shinji who needs therapy, it's his dad. He's a menace to all women.

Gendou's got problems you can't really fix with therapy. Oh, he sure is one character that gets poorly represented in fanfiction for the reason you're ranting on him so much; people hate him. It's so sad when the old bastard is your third favorite character (Asuka, Shinji, and Gendou are my top three; I loves my messed-up characters).

laurie b.

10-28-2007, 03:11 AM

Ah, that doesn't matter when everyone's just going to disintegrate into big puddles of goop. Also, Rei II could have gotten a better apartment and cleaned it up; it seems like she chose to have it in its poor state.

Sorry, I believe that interior decorating does wonders for perking up a soul. Rei II should have moved in with Misato, except I think they would have freaked each other out.

I view Kaji as a man that wants to be a ladies' man, but doesn't quite have what it takes (too much conscience and love for Misato gets in his way).

Ahh. I agree. I think he does have a conscience. He reminds me of Mulder (during the early seasons of X-files.) The whole "I will find the truth" thing.
And a guy who thinks about someone taking care of his watermelons before he dies is hard to dislike: it's obvious he takes responsibility seriously.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it wasn't his intention to have Yui's soul get trapped in Unit-01 (what with how obsessed he is to reunite with her and how much he changes after that incident), and Naoko's guilt for strangling Rei I seems to be what drove her to suicide. Though, it's quite horrible he doesn't give a damn that she died. Oh well, it's not like Naoko was a saint, either (killing children is bad, last time I checked).

Naoko's guilt drove her to suicide, yes, but the action that drove her to strangle little Rei are Gendou's words of cruelty. That he didn't care she died kind of seals the deal on how he really felt about her. That he did the same to the Dr. Ritsuko is... doubly sick. I remember a bit of my Marx:
"History always repeats itself twice, first time as tragedy, second time as farce."

On Naoko killing Rei... I thought she stopped half-away. I also kind of assumed that Rei I died right before Shinji shows up. Is it ever made clear when the Rei I died?

Gendou's got problems you can't really fix with therapy. Oh, he sure is one character that gets poorly represented in fanfiction for the reason you're ranting on him so much; people hate him. It's so sad when the old bastard is your third favorite character (Asuka, Shinji, and Gendou are my top three; I loves my messed-up characters).

Oh, I may have ranted, yeah, but I didn't say I didn't appreciate the old geezer. :) He's complex and he's easy to hate, but it's much harder to try and get inside his head. I don't think I would want to go there. Besides, there wouldn't be much of a story without him and we wouldn't want that.

My top three characters would by Shinji, Kensuke, and Misato. I appreciate Kensuke because he's the only seemingly normal person in the series, yet for that very fact he feels like an outsider, always looking in. His video recorder and his mania for collecting classified information establishes his role as perennial viewer.

As for Misato, she has as many layers as an onion. On the surface she's a strong captain and doesn't compromise her femininity. Yet peeling away the layers, she's a wreck. She's has so many emotional issues that in hindsight its surprising she's capable at what she does and actually still has the urge to reach out to people.

(Pen Pen doesn't really count because he's a pet.)

Ahh. I never got around to saying anything new yet. Here goes my random observations and questions...

1) It's an old topic, but here goes: what are the possibilities that Ritsuko killed Kaji? She's close enough to know what's going on and to realize his betrayal. The old fogies of SEELE seemed to want to keep her around until she wasn't needed. I doubt if Kaji was murdered by Gendou himself, the expression on Kaji's face in greeting his murderer was one of mingled relief -- it was as if he was thinking, "hey, maybe I can talk my way out of this one." Just a wild theory, of course.

2) Does Rei II's sacrifice -- her life for Shinji's -- stem a bit from having Yui's soul in her? You've got that whole maternal instinct buried somewhere in there. I'm pretty sure others have posited the same idea. What do you think?

3) On the quality of the animation during eps 25-26, I know they were under budget constraints but I felt it really worked for me. This series really aged well, I re-watched some other classic stuff (like Ninja Scroll and felt myself go, WTF, the animation now sucks.) Reducing Shinji and Co. to pentel pen frames, then later on to just line drawings, really shows the cracks between sanity/insanity, the constructed world/consciousness. I really liked the scene where Shinji's just standing there and all these other scenes are screened on top of him. It was very surreal, very Magritte. :)

4) The ending of the series. Ahh, the ending. Now that I've re-watched it, after all this time... I feel disturbed. I cannot remember why I liked it so much. Did I like it because it gave Shinji an iota of normalcy, even if it meant that he lost his real identity, or because I felt that it was inevitable that he needed to get over his self-absorption and his low self-esteem, even if only an illusion would make it happen? (Does anyone else get these sorts of thoughts while watching NGE?)

Incidentally, I was waiting for the moment someone tells him, "Do you really think 14-year olds would pilot these Evas in the real world? It's too big a responsibility!" And... it didn't happen. Did I imagine watching that scene from the TV series all this time? Argh.

Geez, NGE has managed to unhinge me all over again. Sorry for the rambling. I'm going to shut up now.

Adam

10-28-2007, 04:51 AM

Naoko's guilt drove her to suicide, yes, but the action that drove her to strangle little Rei are Gendou's words of cruelty.

Meh, she was an old hag. As for what drove her to strangle Rei, I guess that's something that depends on perspective.

On Naoko killing Rei... I thought she stopped half-away. I also kind of assumed that Rei I died right before Shinji shows up. Is it ever made clear when the Rei I died?

It's clear in both the anime and the manga that Rei I dies at Naoko's hands...or that's what everyone else thinks, in regard to the anime. Actually, it's uncertain whether or not she committed suicide in the anime (the manga is clear on this).

1) It's an old topic, but here goes: what are the possibilities that Ritsuko killed Kaji? She's close enough to know what's going on and to realize his betrayal.

Pretty low, especially in the manga. It's most likely some nameless assassin offed Kaji.

2) Does Rei II's sacrifice -- her life for Shinji's -- stem a bit from having Yui's soul in her?

Well, I don't think Rei has Yui's soul, so I'd say no way. It's to my belief that she has the soul of Lilith and resides in a cloned body of Yui, while all of Yui's soul is in Eva Unit-01. Plus, Rei sacrificing herself for Shinji stemming from Yui would diminish the development she had with Shinji, in my opinion.

3) On the quality of the animation during eps 25-26, I know they were under budget constraints but I felt it really worked for me.

I used to strongly resent those two episodes (especially 25), but I didn't mind them as much when I watched NGE about a month ago. I still don't like how Tokyo-3 refused to allow Gainax use their original script for Episode 25, though (most of that ended up in Air). Stupid censorship and stuff. Ah, I wonder what kind of resolution the series would have had if Gainax had money and wasn't being pressured by their producers to tone down the content.

4) The ending of the series. Ahh, the ending. Now that I've re-watched it, after all this time... I feel disturbed. I cannot remember why I liked it so much. Did I like it because it gave Shinji an iota of normalcy, even if it meant that he lost his real identity, or because I felt that it was inevitable that he needed to get over his self-absorption and his low self-esteem, even if only an illusion would make it happen?

Much as I like Episodes 25-26 more than I did before, I hate its conclusion. It rings too much of falseness and it seems like things resolve too easily to me, as well as everything being too...happy for me to be convinced anyone truly is happy (if that makes any sense).

Incidentally, I was waiting for the moment someone tells him, "Do you really think 14-year olds would pilot these Evas in the real world? It's too big a responsibility!" And... it didn't happen. Did I imagine watching that scene from the TV series all this time? Argh.

Yes, you did imagine. Never trust your memory too much.

I think I've seen enough teenagers piloting giant robots in anime that I'm convinced only teenagers can pilot giant robots in the real world. Hey, better them than me.

laurie b.

10-28-2007, 04:32 PM

It's clear in both the anime and the manga that Rei I dies at Naoko's hands...or that's what everyone else thinks, in regard to the anime. Actually, it's uncertain whether or not she committed suicide in the anime (the manga is clear on this).

Actually it's quite clear that Naoko committed suicide -- at least to me; the chalk outline on the floor implies that she jumped. If she killed Rei I at that moment the kid could have hardly pushed her over. How everyone could just work there after that happened, though, kind of shows how... er, unfeeling and possibly imbalanced everyone in NERV is.

Pretty low, especially in the manga. It's most likely some nameless assassin offed Kaji.

Damn, it would have been pretty cool if he was offed by someone he knew. Another theory gone west.

Well, I don't think Rei has Yui's soul, so I'd say no way. It's to my belief that she has the soul of Lilith and resides in a cloned body of Yui, while all of Yui's soul is in Eva Unit-01. Plus, Rei sacrificing herself for Shinji stemming from Yui would diminish the development she had with Shinji, in my opinion.

So you think Rei sacrificed herself for Shinji out of her own feelings towards him? Not much to give your life for, in my opinion. She had an odd friendship with Shinji, it wasn't deep or highly communicative. Perhaps she sacrificed herself more out of her sense of responsibility to keep the pilot of Eva 01 alive. At that point his unit was the one most intact. Asuka's Eva was working but she was frazzled; Rei would have known this.

Much as I like Episodes 25-26 more than I did before, I hate its conclusion. It rings too much of falseness and it seems like things resolve too easily to me, as well as everything being too...happy for me to be convinced anyone truly is happy (if that makes any sense).

It is actually the falsity of the whole happy ending that makes it so creepy. It's like a free mind re-entering "the Matrix" with one's consent: it is the choice of the endless dream and the ultimate rejection of reality. The false reality with petty problems is easier to deal with, it's totally unlike the real world which does not come with absolute truths.

This makes me want to start collecting Angelic Days, just to see how far the parallel universe actually goes in the construction of this false reality. I've read some spoilers though, it seems like a total shoujo series. Perhaps you wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole. But if you have, give me your opinion before I am tempted by buy all 5 volumes.

Yes, you did imagine. Never trust your memory too much.

Damn, now you made me feel really old... the synapses of my brain aren't what they used to be.

Ah well. On to re-watching the movies, for me. :D

Adam

10-29-2007, 03:02 AM

Another fanart. Another one of Shinji:

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anothershinjipz8.jpg

Man, my hand slipped when I was inking that shadow he's casting, so there's nothing suspicious about it at all...Nope...

Actually it's quite clear that Naoko committed suicide -- at least to me; the chalk outline on the floor implies that she jumped. If she killed Rei I at that moment the kid could have hardly pushed her over.

Uh, it's not certain whether she killed herself or whether it was made to appear as if she committed suicide (dun dun dun! Conspiracy!). Whatever, I agree that she popped herself out so this doesn't matter.

So you think Rei sacrificed herself for Shinji out of her own feelings towards him? Not much to give your life for, in my opinion. She had an odd friendship with Shinji, it wasn't deep or highly communicative.

Ah, I'll retract this...for the anime. Now I'm mixing up differences in the manga and anime; I'd definitely say her feelings towards Shinji played a role in her sacrifice in the manga, while in the anime it appeared she did it more because she didn't care if she died (she'd just be "replaced").

It is actually the falsity of the whole happy ending that makes it so creepy. It's like a free mind re-entering "the Matrix" with one's consent: it is the choice of the endless dream and the ultimate rejection of reality. The false reality with petty problems is easier to deal with, it's totally unlike the real world which does not come with absolute truths.

Well, I've always disliked endings where people reject reality. I liked it much more in the movie when he chose to accept a more painful route instead of running away from what would hurt him, like he does in the entire series prior to that point.

Or are you talking about that false, parallel reality in Episode 26 (TV)? I'm confused.

This makes me want to start collecting Angelic Days, just to see how far the parallel universe actually goes in the construction of this false reality. I've read some spoilers though, it seems like a total shoujo series. Perhaps you wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole. But if you have, give me your opinion before I am tempted by buy all 5 volumes.

...It's six volumes.

I dunno, I read the first three volumes and thought it was pretty mediocre. I've gotten better Asuka x Shinji fixes from fanfiction. But my main gripe was with the art; it just doesn't compare with Sadamoto's, in my opinion.

And, personally, I liked the infamous Re-Take doujins a lot more (barring the epilogue issue, which sucked). Ah, the only doujinshi I didn't read for the sex scenes: Re-Take.

Damn, now you made me feel really old... the synapses of my brain aren't what they used to be.

No, this is true for everyone. I do it frequently myself.

...Damn, now I'm making myself feel old.

laurie b.

10-29-2007, 12:51 PM

Another fanart. Another one of Shinji:

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anothershinjipz8.jpg

Man, my hand slipped when I was inking that shadow he's casting, so there's nothing suspicious about it at all...Nope...

Aw, did you have to be so obvious, hinting about the shadow? I saw it the moment the artwork popped up in the window. I like it, as usual. You must be tired of getting praise by now. I think this is superior to the first Shinji you posted a few days ago. Even the scratch marks are more refined, and the eyes have better shading -- there are actually levels of color, there are pinpoint of whites, but no precise iris (it would be nice, but perhaps out of place in the Evangelion world). You exercised much more control in this work, or perhaps you spent more time on it. :)

Shinji still doesn't have too much backbone here, his eyes are still downcast, but at least he doesn't look like the total jellyfish in your previous work. Perhaps the absence of the black wash in the background contributes to the more polished, more upbeat look of this piece.

Uh, it's not certain whether she killed herself or whether it was made to appear as if she committed suicide (dun dun dun! Conspiracy!). Whatever, I agree that she popped herself out so this doesn't matter.

Perhaps it would have mattered to Dr. Ritsuko especially since she latter on had an affair with Gendou... but maybe not. Everyone in NGE seems intent on self-destructive behavior.

Well, I've always disliked endings where people reject reality. I liked it much more in the movie when he chose to accept a more painful route instead of running away from what would hurt him, like he does in the entire series prior to that point.

Or are you talking about that false, parallel reality in Episode 26 (TV)? I'm confused.

Yeah, actually I'm talking about the false reality in Episode 26. It is a cop-out in terms of character development, that's why I'm trying to re-assess why I liked it so much in the first place. What the hell was I thinking ten years ago?! Argh. Given Shinji's character arc during the TV series, the only way he should develop is into someone stronger emotionally -- not someone who retreats into a fantasy world where Rei flashes her underwear (in the "real" world, Rei II didn't care at all about revealing her entire body, something that unnerved Shinji immensely.)

...It's six volumes.

I dunno, I read the first three volumes and thought it was pretty mediocre. I've gotten better Asuka x Shinji fixes from fanfiction. But my main gripe was with the art; it just doesn't compare with Sadamoto's, in my opinion.

And, personally, I liked the infamous Re-Take doujins a lot more (barring the epilogue issue, which sucked). Ah, the only doujinshi I didn't read for the sex scenes: Re-Take.

Oh, silly me. The local bookstores only have until volume 5 right now. It was wrong to assume there were only five of 'em.

I thought you had major gripes about NGE fanfic. And now, even the fanfic is better than Angelic Days?! Oh, that's so harsh.

Would you happen to have a link somewhere for that doujin in question? :D

...Damn, now I'm making myself feel old.

Welcome to the club, dude. *grinning*

Is it me, or has everyone else fled this FC? Or is everyone who likes NGE just camping out at the Rebuild of Evangelion thread?

anathema

10-29-2007, 06:06 PM

I would like to join this FC! It's been great reading all the posts, though I don't really have anything to add, and the link to the evafaq was a thoroughly interesting read. Thanks for that!

RE: Angelic Days
- I've only read about five chapters, and yes. It plods like a bad shoujo series. I don't know whether it has some deeper plot in the upcoming chapters/volumes (I mean, NGE started out like a typical Mecha anime before it totally fucked the viewer over by the complete un-Mecha anime of it all) but I couldn't stay long enough to figure that out. And I agree about the art. The art . . . I don't have any education in the artsy-department but. It's so different and cutesy, it's jarring.

laurie b
- I have the RE-Take doujins, sans the epilogue. If you could wait a day or less, I could have it upped. Do you mind?

Adam

10-29-2007, 07:33 PM

Welcome, anathema! Finally, another person joined!

. I like it, as usual. You must be tired of getting praise by now. I think this is superior to the first Shinji you posted a few days ago. Even the scratch marks are more refined, and the eyes have better shading -- there are actually levels of color, there are pinpoint of whites, but no precise iris (it would be nice, but perhaps out of place in the Evangelion world). You exercised much more control in this work, or perhaps you spent more time on it. :)

Shinji still doesn't have too much backbone here, his eyes are still downcast, but at least he doesn't look like the total jellyfish in your previous work. Perhaps the absence of the black wash in the background contributes to the more polished, more upbeat look of this piece.

The reason Shinji looks better is due to more control since I used a fountain pen this time around (not just a brush), and I spent way more time working on it. Irises seem to be blasphemy in the anime world, and I didn't want to commit any heresy and get myself excommunicated by the Manga Pope, so there's none of that here. Yeah, Shinji still looks rather sullen and I probably wanted to draw him so because I was kind of down that my laptop stopped working that day. Next time I draw Shinji, I'll give him a smile or something.

And I don't think I ever get tired of praise, heh.

Everyone in NGE seems intent on self-destructive behavior.

Ha, it seems that way, doesn't it? My favorite English professor would probably prescribe SSRI's to the lot of them; that's his solution for all fictional characters' problems ("Dr. Frankenstein and his creation should have taken some Prozzac").

Yeah, actually I'm talking about the false reality in Episode 26. It is a cop-out in terms of character development, that's why I'm trying to re-assess why I liked it so much in the first place. What the hell was I thinking ten years ago?!

Oh, that makes more sense. Personally, I enjoyed that scene years ago because I was watching the last couple of episodes at one in the morning, and all the introspective jargon was putting me to sleep. I still find it entertaining and it may give some insight on what Gendou's relationship with Yui was like (he's totally whipped in the alternate universe, I love it!).

I thought you had major gripes about NGE fanfic. And now, even the fanfic is better than Angelic Days?! Oh, that's so harsh.

Ah, a lot of my anger is out of bitterness towards people not writing ones I like anymore, and the fact hardly anybody can finish their stories (a side effect of too many writers starting things with no conclusion in mind and pandering to reviewers). The last time I read something original and well-written that wowed me and was completed was "The Guest Performance" by Puddle of LCL, and that came out, like, three years ago. Though, I wonder if my memory is making that story better through nostalgia; I'll have to read it again some day (and give the poor guy a review, this time around).

To clarify, I'd say "Angelic Days" is better than the average NGE fanfic, though is not as good as my favorites...in my opinion, of course.

Would you happen to have a link somewhere for that doujin in question? :D

Yes, though it leads to a wretched hive of scum and villainy. You must be cautious.

Is it me, or has everyone else fled this FC? Or is everyone who likes NGE just camping out at the Rebuild of Evangelion thread?

Well, no one's even really posting there, either. I think it's time to invade.

It's been great reading all the posts, though I don't really have anything to add, and the link to the evafaq was a thoroughly interesting read. Thanks for that!

No problem. It has answers to dumb questions asked by lazy people ("Duh, how many Eva movies are 'da?"), but I like some of the answers to the less frequently asked questions answered in it, like "Is the person at the end of the film actually a combination of Asuka, Rei, and Misato?" (No, she isn't, retards).

Feel free to inject any of your own opinions into the discussions so it's not like Laurie and I are having a private conversation (not that I mind talking to her). Don't worry if your viewpoints differ or anything. Just have fun.

laurie b
- I have the RE-Take doujins, sans the epilogue. If you could wait a day or less, I could have it upped. Do you mind?

I already sent her a PM with a link to all of them, so you might not need to bother. We'll see. You could tell us what you think of it to the pass the time.

anathema

10-29-2007, 07:47 PM

It's dawn and I should have been asleep ages ago, but I'll try to form coherent posts when I'm more awake (and less caffeinated). As such:

No problem. It has answers to dumb questions asked by lazy people ("Duh, how many Eva movies are 'da?"), but I like some of the answers to the less frequently asked questions answered in it, like "Is the person at the end of the film actually a combination of Asuka, Rei, and Misato?" (No, she isn't, retards).
My favorite parts were the confirmations, though, because I've never really been part of the NGE fandom and never knew the cards' existence. It makes a lot of vague things clearer. :)

I already sent her a PM with a link to all of them, so you might not need to bother. We'll see. You could give tell us what you think of it to the pass the time.
If you don't mind, can you PM the epilogue to me as well? I've read that you disliked it, but I'd still like a copy for completion's sake. Thanks and hope this isn't a bother!

Also, since I've never really been familiar with the fandom, can you guys link me to fanfics that you particularly like? It doesn't have to be shippy (though I wouldn't mind some Shinji/Asuka introspective). Gen is something I would appreciate a lot, actually.

laurie b.

10-30-2007, 01:09 AM

Welcome Anathema :) WHEE! Another person to talk to aside from Adam! Another person stranded on the island of Evangelion! This is great.

Don't worry about not being part of the fandom. I watched the series first ten years ago and I'm only re-watching and re-discovering all its f*cked up quirks now. Back then I really loved it, but I didn't have time (or the inclination) to be part of fandoms. So anything goes, really.

The reason Shinji looks better is due to more control since I used a fountain pen this time around (not just a brush), and I spent way more time working on it. Irises seem to be blasphemy in the anime world, and I didn't want to commit any heresy and get myself excommunicated by the Manga Pope, so there's none of that here. Yeah, Shinji still looks rather sullen and I probably wanted to draw him so because I was kind of down that my laptop stopped working that day. Next time I draw Shinji, I'll give him a smile or something.

And I don't think I ever get tired of praise, heh.

Shinji with a smile would be nice, but no pressure of course. You'd might want to do some epic artwork with your darling Asuka.

Ha, it seems that way, doesn't it? My favorite English professor would probably prescribe SSRI's to the lot of them; that's his solution for all fictional characters' problems ("Dr. Frankenstein and his creation should have taken some Prozzac").

Oh... but if fictional characters could be given SSRI's, literature (and film and anime) would be such a boring place. Everybody will just turn to... I don't know. Boxing, maybe.

Ah, a lot of my anger is out of bitterness towards people not writing ones I like anymore, and the fact hardly anybody can [I]finish their stories (a side effect of too many writers starting things with no conclusion in mind and pandering to reviewers). The last time I read something original and well-written that wowed me and was completed was "The Guest Performance" by Puddle of LCL, and that came out, like, three years ago. Though, I wonder if my memory is making that story better through nostalgia; I'll have to read it again some day (and give the poor guy a review, this time around).

Well, people not finishing their stories is a problem with all fanfiction, not just NGE. That's why I think it takes a responsible fangirl (or fanboy) to FINISH the work before uploading anything, especially those multi-chaptered sagas. And I hate those who hold the story hostage for more reviews! I remember reading a pretty decent IchiRuki fic but the writer was adamant on getting 100 reviews before continuing. It peeved me so much I didn't bother. Persons like that don't deserve my reviews; I will not be forced to stroke someone's ego!

Sorry. Ranting again. But really, those who don't or can't finish their stories are just... silly. I believe fanfiction is about continuing or carving out something from the silences of the original text. If the fanfic author just waits for reviews and for other people to come up with cool ideas, it means that she/he didn't have an original vision in the first place that has a definite beginning and ending.

Oh, I take my fanfic too seriously. I consider it to be a completely different form from original writing. But so many people want to become serious writers via fanfic. They think that practicing with fanfic is good, without realizing the amount of craft that goes into the work. Making one's own original character compelling and working a new scenario with an existing character are two different skills.

Er, I think I strayed quite a bit from NGE there.

Feel free to inject any of your own opinions into the discussions so it's not like Laurie and I are having a private conversation (not that I mind talking to her). Don't worry if your viewpoints differ or anything. Just have fun.

I am relieved you don't mind talking to me. But you're right, it's been getting kind of weird here without someone else saying anything. :)

It's dawn and I should have been asleep ages ago, but I'll try to form coherent posts when I'm more awake (and less caffeinated). As such:

lso, since I've never really been familiar with the fandom, can you guys link me to fanfics that you particularly like? It doesn't have to be shippy (though I wouldn't mind some Shinji/Asuka introspective). Gen is something I would appreciate a lot, actually.

Ahh, I cannot help you too much with the fanfic stuff. I haven't read enough to recommend anything -- a lot of the summaries for Evangelion fics turn me off I don't bother reading them, and those that I attempt to read I stop half-way in disgust. Although "Whipped," albeit unfinished, is hilarious.

And perhaps Adam is too modest to say so, but his story is pretty good too.

I started watching "Death and Rebirth" last night. Jumping straight into it, after the TV series, was kind of jarring. It starts off as chronological... and then gets all postmodern, switching back and forth between the present and the past. Wah! (Hello... Pulp Fiction?)

I totally loved the string quartet bit, though. I kind of forgot about that.

I stopped halfway at the intermission because I was getting sleepy and I didn't want to spoil the experience by sleeping through "Rebirth."

More later, perhaps.

Tomodachi69

10-30-2007, 02:46 AM

Just popping in to say,

Welcome anathema and late welcome, laurie b.!

Also, nice to see that this FC is so active, even if it's only Adam and laurie (mostly). I'd join in, but I still need to catch up on my Eva. It's been too long for me to be able to jump in and contribute much to your conversations :]

Adam

10-30-2007, 03:42 AM

Sup, Tomo.

My favorite parts were the confirmations, though, because I've never really been part of the NGE fandom and never knew the cards' existence. It makes a lot of vague things clearer. :)

Yes, those cards are sweet. It'd be nice if there was a site dedicated to translations of them.

Also, since I've never really been familiar with the fandom, can you guys link me to fanfics that you particularly like? It doesn't have to be shippy (though I wouldn't mind some Shinji/Asuka introspective). Gen is something I would appreciate a lot, actually.

Checking out the Evangelion communities at FF.net is a good place to start, since a bunch of stories are bunched together already for you. Evafics.org has a selective uploading process that means most of the stories there are at least half-decent; unfortunately, many of the fics at EFO are incomplete and will never be finished.

Here's a couple stories/authors I've read and possibly liked. If you want an Asuka/ Shinji tilt, you've come to the right man:

http://evafics.org/read.php?series_id=103

"Higher Learning," by Strike Fiss. Not that great, but if you value quantity over quality it could be up your alley. If nothing else, it's amazing this story is finished.

http://evafics.org/read.php?series_id=115

"Holding Hands," also written by Strike Fiss. It's better than his lengthy opus, in my opinion, though I believe the second chapter is completely unnecessary and should not have been written. Still, I enjoy the first half quite a bit.

http://evafics.org/read.php?series_id=44

The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry, though Shinji's plans go off without a hitch in "The Best Laid Plans," by Ryoma. There's a sequel, but it's not as good in addition to being in permanent limbo.

http://evafics.org/read.php?series_id=55

"Phoenix Rising," by Red Horseman. What do you know, a lemon that would be better off without the citrus. This one deals with Asuka recuperating from her coma and integrating herself back into society with help from Shinji. They do it at the end, and I actually feel the story goes downhill once the sex starts. Whatever, it still has a nice story before then.

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/39885/

To be honest, I'd recommend most anything Red Horseman has written. In particular, "The Game" is one I enjoyed. Sadly, he's got a lot of unfinished works lying around (including "The Game); he's one of the reasons I'm upset more people don't finish their damn stories.

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/64284/

Random1377 is like the mackdaddy of Evangelion fanfiction and chances are he's written something that will catch your fancy. Specifically, I liked:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/269658/1/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_Deviance

"Deviance." It's a what-if story deviating at the kiss Asuka and Shinji have. May not be good for kiddies, but if you've read Re-Take it shouldn't corrupt you.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1349559/1/Recrudesce_of_Evangelion

This is one I read years ago, and I suppose I must have liked it. "Recrudesce of Evangelion," by Z98 had some ideas I thought were cool. Then, Z98 stopped it to write a different Evangelion story that wasn't as good. Go figure.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2204726/1/Scenario_no_Yui

What if, instead of Gendou, Yui was the head honcho of NERV. That's what "Scenario no Yui" is all about, and I have no idea why GuppyLips didn't call it "Yui's Scenario." But that doesn't bother me as much as the fact Guppy hasn't added a new chapter in nearly two years! Dammit, just when it was finally becoming great, too! @$!#;!!

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3244683/1/Conspiracy

A cool semi-crossover with the X-Files. "Conspiracy," by jcmoorehead has some solid originality and pretty good characterization, though persistent spelling problems, and the plot getting a bit out of control towards the end, prevent this from being one of the elite in my books. Nonetheless, I think JC deserves credit for completing the thing.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1829850/1/Cupids_Arrow_Revisited

"Cupid's Arrow," by Ishaqu is a silly romantic comedy that has now become a lesson on why you shouldn't start stories without any sense of direction. It's dead and likely isn't worth the short time it would take to read it.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/963054/1/

If epic fantasy that's never going to finish is your kind of thing, IA Seldon's "Eternities Wars" is right for you! Honestly, I stopped following this once Seldon started focusing too much on his original characters. Like, why make a Shinji a badass and then tell us about some losers nobody cares about? I dunno.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1788903/1/Guest_Performance

Have you seen that crazy Tim Allen movie, Galaxy Quest? Puddle of LCL did, and the way he mixes that film with Evangelion in "Guest Performance" is brilliant, in my opinion. This is my personal favorite fanfic of any series and I'll recommend it to anyone, despite myself seeming to be in the minority (how did this awesome story get less than 40 reviews while J. G. the Gamer's lame Season 2 of Evangelion has over 800? That's just wrong!) Oh, and some loser copied Puddle of LCL's idea recently and you should avoid that.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3188986/1/Master_of_Corruption

This one is dark. Very dark. "Master of Corruption" is one of many stories that tells me RahXephon seriously needs psychiatric help, though he sure was polite to me in that reply to a review I gave him. Regardless, this is an epic piece of work that I don't believe should be missed, and the author swears he'll finish it (excuse me while I snort). Give Rah some reviews so he'll finish it, and ignore the fact I haven't done my part! Plus, there's a collaboration story to counterpart this, "Mistress of Tyranny," by Seshy's Girl 00, that's all right.

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/398974/

English isn't his native language, but I still enjoy what Jimmy Wolk has written. "The 2nd try" is his major story, but I like the one he hasn't updated in years more, "The Ikaris." Why can't authors give me the stories I want sometimes? Geez, there's people that pander to us readers too much, then some that should learn how to appease us better...Or maybe I'm just hard to please.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3263747/1/Whipped

Already mentioned by Laurie and myself in an earlier post, but I'll give another plug to Fresh C's "Whipped." Read it. It's funny.

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/4917/Axel_Terizaki

Axel Terizaki wrote "The Child of Love" and that's...wait, where the hell did that story go?!...Um, I think I enjoyed "Shinji, will you dance with me," though that was a long time ago.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/209065/1/The_one_I_love_Is

"The one I love is..." by Rakna is the classic Evangelion romance story that all Asuka x Shinji x Rei love triangles copy. Furthermore, its author is currently writing an Evangelion novel that gets updated once every year or so, and just so happened to get updated the one day I post a story (not good when you have zero reputation like I).

And that's it. Sorry that I don't really have any Gendou-specific, but those are hard to find (there are some Communities at FF.net dedicated to him, however). And there's some stories popular now that I haven't technically read that aren't mentioned here, but those should be easy enough for you to find yourself.

Wait...what's that?

And perhaps Adam is too modest to say so, but his story is pretty good too.

Nope. Read my story!

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3857296/1/Spinal_Accord

"Spinal Accord" by Adam Epp is the greatest story ever written. Forget that other crap I just recommended and pick this one for the Nobel Prize.

...Okay, it's not really that good.

Shinji with a smile would be nice, but no pressure of course. You'd might want to do some epic artwork with your darling Asuka.

Yep, I do. Unfortunately, Asuka is sad that ink ran all over the place in the last one I did of her.

Oh... but if fictional characters could be given SSRI's, literature (and film and anime) would be such a boring place. Everybody'd just turn to... I don't know. Boxing, maybe.

Nah, they'd all just sit around the couch, watching reality TV. I hear "Marry my Mother's Unborn Lesbian Fetus if You Want to Win a Million Dollars" is a winner.

Well, people not finishing their stories is a problem with all fanfiction, not just NGE. That's why I think it takes a responsible fangirl (or fanboy) to FINISH the work before uploading anything, especially those multi-chaptered sagas.

All those unfinished Eva stories I've read made me swear an oath not to upload anything until I'm done that story.

...Then my laptop possibly died and I may have lost all my unfinished (and one finished) stories. I might need to stretch out my vocal chords so I can scream like Shinji does in EoE.

Anyways, I think some people might need the encouragement from reviewers to finish those multi-chapter monstrosities. Though, reviews can be a double-edged sword; I believe many have been crushed by the expectations of their faithful (Oh, if I really like a long, ongoing story, I can sure put on the pressure. Bwahaha).

And I hate those who hold the story hostage for more reviews! I remember reading a pretty decent IchiRuki fic but the writer was adamant on getting 100 reviews before continuing. It peeved me so much I didn't bother. Persons like that don't deserve my reviews; I will not be forced to stroke someone's ego!

Personally, I won't review those out of principle. It's really pathetic on the author's part to make such demands. Write a better story if you want more comments.

Oh, I take my fanfic too seriously. I consider it completely different form from original writing. But so many people want become serious writers via fanfic.

Er, I think I strayed quite a bit from NGE there.

I just write for fun, though I try to make my stories the best they can be.

...And I don't think I'm helping this topic stay on NGE.

I started watching "Death and Rebirth" last night. Jumping straight into it, after the TV series, was kind of jarring. It starts off as chronological... and then gets all postmodern, switching back and forth between the present and the past. Wah! (Hello... Pulp Fiction?)

I totally loved the string quartet bit, though. I kind of forgot about that.

Ah, it's been a long time since I watched "Death and Rebirth." I couldn't buy it when most of it is just a rehash of the TV series and the good part is in "End of Evangelion." Maybe I'll rent it in the starry future.

laurie b.

10-30-2007, 05:08 PM

Tomodachi69

Just popping in to say,

Welcome anathema and late welcome, laurie b.!

Also, nice to see that this FC is so active, even if it's only Adam and laurie (mostly). I'd join in, but I still need to catch up on my Eva. It's been too long for me to be able to jump in and contribute much to your conversations :]

Thanks for the belated welcome :D Please please please catch up on your Eva so we can talk... you do own the FC, right? :D

(loud strangled sounds)

Ahh. I just turned off my DVD player. Just finished End of Evangelion. Stupid DVD, I thought I was still watching "Rebirth," turned out the chapters went directly into "End of Evangelion" so it all just kind of blended into one mind-blowing whole. There's such a thing as too much anime in one night.

The footage is still fantastic. Asuka was so hot when she went beserk and starts attacking all those Angels. I loved the way her red hair flung around her as she fought. (Before you raise an eyebrow: yes, I am a straight girl, but I think she's hot. Can't I appreciate beauty when I see it?)

I feel brain dead all the sudden. Insanely brain dead. There is so much I forgot about this. Still, I have a couple of insipid, stupid questions and observations floating around. Most likely I'm going to clean up this post when I wake up tomorrow, but what the hell, I'm still semi-coherent now. Go ahead. Laugh.

-Why does Rei keep appearing to everyone like the Angel of Death? (She appears to Misato, who's talking to Pen Pen and Kaji, aside from all the red shirts* of Nerv.) Is this part of her Lilith aspect? If so, does this actually tie in when Rei first appeared to Shinji during the first ep of the TV series, which has been so far unexplained? (Even by the FAQ. I re-read it, very quickly.)

- Additionally, why did Rei III choose Shinji over Gendou when she said "I am not your doll"? Rei III didn't really bond with Shinji, unlike Rei II. Or maybe she just didn't like the old man poking her innards...

-Uhm, Shinji really has a thing for strangling Asuka, in his mind and in reality.

-The stuff Yui said at the very end seemed like it was straight out of a second-rate self-help book. I'm glad Shinji decided to accept reality over a dream world, but man, did his mother have to be so trite?

- Shinji's sexual ambiguity was more pronounced here, when he seemed more willing to accept and embrace a giant-sized Kaworu than a giant-sized Rei.

- I loved Misato for kicking major ass when her time came to rescue Shinji. Conversely, I loved Gendou for ending up like a cowering child when his end came.

- I remember Ritsuko's mom saying that the Magi were three aspects of her personality (mother/scientist/woman) but wasn't it clear which one was Gaspar. Because that's the aspect of her that betrayed Ritsuko at the very end. And that just peeved me. A part of me wanted Ritsuko to kick Gendou's ass.

Okay, you now have permission to expose my woeful ignorance and patiently answer my questions or rebutt my observations.

*red shirts = sorry, wrong fandom but I can't resist. it's very star trek OS; you know the guys who get offed before captain kirk can rip up his shirt. but I assume at least Adam would know this because you mentioned galaxy quest.