The Orihime-factor

[scooz]

Ok, random idea popped in my head while my lil brother was watching some of the recent Bleach episodes (I've converted him XD) and I was thinking:

Orihime = power to reject events, sooooooo if given the chance, could she reject the events surrounding the Arrancar so that they revert back to their original forms or less? The Vastolorde Arrancar (aka the Espada) can technically be changed back to their Gillian form, though probably not their Hollow form probably since Gillians are made from hundreds of Hollows.

I know that Orihime has stated she plans on destroying Hougyoku in the same manner (or that is how we have come to understand it...Kubo is tricky that way, lol), so she can probably do the same with the Arrancar which would make her more valuable than any Shinigami or Vizard in a sense, but unless she strengthens her powers to reject faster...I doubt she would have the time or power to restrain the Arrancar, let alone the Espada to just sit around rejecting...Que in Ichigo :p

What do you guys think?

[Rain]

That may work, but for some reason I doubt it. I can see her maybe turning them back into pure hollows/menos, but rejecting them further seems like a little much.

[stifflersthedog]

Ye sure sound plausible, the "weakness" in Orihimes power is A: Its slow, and B: I imagine that if any person remotely powerful were wrapped in her shield they'd do a kenpachi mini-energy burst and pop it.

But ye i dont see why it couldn't happen, although she's still best suited, to using it on inanimate objects, or for healing.

Like if she were to use it on Grimmjaw now..... well actually i suppose he'd get "reverted" to full health, and still stop her before she went to far.

Honestly i'm more interested if Houguko or however you spell it would return to inside Rukia if she reversed it? . Or if that will have an effect on the Arrancar , something along those lines.

Actually what would happen should she target the soul-battery thing (were the shinigami/arrancar draw there power from) Could she isolate it, and thus prevent ppl drawing there power from it, or seeing as its soo small prehaps she could reverse that at a fast enough rate, plus i rate it'd be hard to stop.... Hmm Hmm

[Sergelia]

You know, I wanted to post a topic about Orihime's powers for a long time now, but I kept postponing it.

I think that technically, she could. In fact, as she can bring dead-to-life in a matter of seconds (I suppose; time is a tough thing to guess in a manga), I'd say she can reject pretty much everything.

But... what I'd like to know, does she reject just physical things? As the Hougyoku was used in the process of Arrancar-izing the current Espada, if she rejected the Hougyoku ever being made, wouldn't the Espada *automatically* cease to exist? You know the old time-travelling lesson that we've been taught in almost every supernatural series (everything from Sabrina to Harry Potter) - don't mess with the past events? In a way, this could be attributed to Orihime's powers as well. If she rejects the Hougyoku's very existence, wouldn't that mean;

A) Rukia never got sentenced to death.
B) Everything that happened in SS arc would, pretty much, get trashed.
C) Rukia would get her powers back on time and get back to SS so there WOULD be no SS arc in the first place... and so on, and so forth.

You see what I mean? :/ No matter how much new we learn about her powers, we *still* don't know virtually anything about them. Is there a limit to what she can do? Does it cost her anything? What is their nature? WHY THE HELL are they manifested as goddamn *hairpins* (seriously, that was cute at first, but seems a bit inappropriate for such HAX, godly powers... I mean, damn, hairpins).
I am still firmly of the opinion that her powers have a cost. Like Shinigami Eyes in Death note, for example, or something, anything, that would make Bleach meaningful again.

Because, what's the point of all this fighting, if she can just sic her hairpins on the Hougyoku and reject all Espada back to Hollow state? What's the point of dramatic suspense when people get badly hurt, if we know that 'It's all gonna be alright! They have st. Orihime on their side!"


But as for your question, she's been getting faster and faster with her powers every time we see her. It's just a matter of time before we see characters disappearing as if they never existed, faster than you can say 'OVERPOWERED'.

[scooz]

I know how unlikely it is to work, but Rukia says that Orihime's powers are improving and she is getting better. Maybe she can speed up the regression. She was practicing with Rukia leading up to her kidnapping. Who knows how much better she has gotten and how much more she can improve. It's just an idea since Ichigo seems to be having some minor issues with hightailing it out of Hueco Mundo with everyone, lol. Also, I am wondering if the Hougyuko can help boost her power, even though she has sworn to destroy it. After all, it gave Aizen the power to create near perfect Arrancar.

[Jaina]

It could certainly change in the future as she develops, but it looks like while Orihime can reject events, she doesn't turn things back in time, exactly. She rejected the loss of Grimmjow's arm, but that didn't rewrite time during the previous Ichigo/one-armed Grimmjow fight to make the fight have happened with Grimmjow having two arms.

[scooz]

You know, I wanted to post a topic about Orihime's powers for a long time now, but I kept postponing it.

I think that technically, she could. In fact, as she can bring dead-to-life in a matter of seconds (I suppose; time is a tough thing to guess in a manga), I'd say she can reject pretty much everything.

But... what I'd like to know, does she reject just physical things? As the Hougyoku was used in the process of Arrancar-izing the current Espada, if she rejected the Hougyoku ever being made, wouldn't the Espada *automatically* cease to exist? You know the old time-travelling lesson that we've been taught in almost every supernatural series (everything from Sabrina to Harry Potter) - don't mess with the past events? In a way, this could be attributed to Orihime's powers as well. If she rejects the Hougyoku's very existence, wouldn't that mean;

A) Rukia never got sentenced to death.
B) Everything that happened in SS arc would, pretty much, get trashed.
C) Rukia would get her powers back on time and get back to SS so there WOULD be no SS arc in the first place... and so on, and so forth.

You see what I mean? :/ No matter how much new we learn about her powers, we *still* don't know virtually anything about them. Is there a limit to what she can do? Does it cost her anything? What is their nature? WHY THE HELL are they manifested as goddamn *hairpins* (seriously, that was cute at first, but seems a bit inappropriate for such HAX, godly powers... I mean, damn, hairpins).
I am still firmly of the opinion that her powers have a cost. Like Shinigami Eyes in Death note, for example, or something, anything, that would make Bleach meaningful again.

Because, what's the point of all this fighting, if she can just sic her hairpins on the Hougyoku and reject all Espada back to Hollow state? What's the point of dramatic suspense when people get badly hurt, if we know that 'It's all gonna be alright! They have st. Orihime on their side!"


But as for your question, she's been getting faster and faster with her powers every time we see her. It's just a matter of time before we see characters disappearing as if they never existed, faster than you can say 'OVERPOWERED'.

Hmmm, you bring up some good points.

Let's go in order.

I don't think that destroying the Hougyuko will destroy the Arrancar linked to it, but I do believe it will weaken them since it is the source of their original power (as far as attaining Shinigami abilities).

Destroying the Hougyuko will strip away ALL of the events surrounding it? Very good point. It is possible...it's kinda scary thinking that all the hard work and bonds made during the SS arc maybe ruined if that is the case.

The manifestation of power is linked to it's physical attributes. With Chad, his super strong arms are linked to "those strong fists" his abuelo told him to find the purpose of. So when his powers are born, they find their way into those strong fists sworn to protect others.

With Orihime, her hairpins were given to her by her brother, who I am sure, if she could reject the events surround him and his death, she would do it in a hot second. I think Orihime's power comes from her desire to change things, to redo things better maybe. After all, she regrets the fight she had with her brother the day he died, and it was over those hairpins. So I think those are a symbol of her regret and wish that things could have happened differently. That's why the hairpins.

Maybe messing with time and the rejection of events is the cost of the power. Maybe if she does reject the Hougyuko's existence, maybe they will lose those events founded in the SS arc...and maybe Urahara is never banished from the Soul Society because of it. There are a lot of implications. We can only wait to see what Kubo plans.

[Velius]

Ah, the old "Can Inoue reject something to nothing" topic! I love it. lol.

Until her powers get some kind of actual clear explanation, Kubo can pretty much do whatever he want with her powers, which is probably why her powers haven't got some kind of actual clear explanation. haha.

I have always said, that if Inoue thinks that she could reject the Hougyoku to nothing. then she could do it and it would work like reversing time. Recently Kubo has introduced some reiatsu limits for her powers, so it might not even work on the arrancar.

[Urazz]

I think Aizen didn't explain everything about Orihime's powers.

Orihime's powers have to fight the opponent's strength to reject it. If she can't she won't be able to reject it or only be partially successful. Whether it is to reject a wound caused by another, reject an attack, or reject someone from existance.

So it's why we see her have some trouble healing wounds caused by the espada cause their reiatsu remains and she has to overpower it. It's the same with enemy attacks, she has to overpower the attacks and it'll negate them or stop the force behind the attack. It would also explain why she has problem with her attacks since she doesn't want to kill anyone.

It's why I don't think she won't be able to reject the hougyoku right now and would just awaken it cause it's a powerful object. Maybe if she had Ichigo feed her some of his reiatsu and act as a battery.

[ForteAnly]

There has to be some flaw to Orihime's power she has to have some limit. I still don't think that Orihime can reject hougyoku. She stills thinks that Aizen didn't already realize her plan. I guess we have to wait and see for what more Kubo gives us.

[moonbeam]

there's this anime i watched before, (but i forgot the title:D) about a cursed princess who was hunted down because of her powers to bring an end to the world as they know it and change it. Her powers sort of reminds me of Orihime's. :p it shows the possible scary implication of orihime's powers if it was in a grander scale i think. maybe, in a way, that's why orihime was given those kind of powers because she doesn't have the will to use it for something sinister or to hurt others hmmm...
anyways, in connection with the hougyoku, i've been wondering about that too! first off, did aizen really show inoue the true hougyoku? or was that probably his zanpaktou or something? and with being able to reject the hougyoku and the transformations made by it, hmm i think it would be possible for her too but i agree with some that it would entail a lot out of her... which makes me think that a possible tragic ending could be in store for inoue here:( what if it takes too much out of her that in exchange she has to give up her life or something?:eek: aw i hope that doesn't happen. that would be kinda sad:cry

[Jaina]

I have two predictions for Orihime and her powers:

1) If she does try and reject the hogyoku, it's going to go badly, because master manipulator Aizen soooo already knows her plan. I wonder if he wants her to reject it, but not completely--how about rejecting it to the point before it was sealed? Yikes.

2) She's going to lose her powers or have them limited. She's got the power of a god right now. There's just no way a teenage girl is going to have that long-term.

[Sergelia]

Well, like I said in some other thread about a month ago... Orihime may be smart, but she isn't a thousand year old genius overlord. It's very naive of her to think he hasn't seen through her plan, but such is the Way Of The Manga.

I mean... It's kinda silly of us to think her decision to reject the orb isn't just going along with Aizen's plans. Can you imagine Aizen going:

"Yay! Orihime-chan! Look what I got; an orb that helps me be more powerful! :nuts I'd be sooo weakened without it! Also, you know what? You have a power to reject things ever happening! Now, use them on Hougyoku to help me."

=__=

Ohyes. Because Aizen's so stupid like that.

[Evility]

Honestly i'm more interested if Houguko or however you spell it would return to inside Rukia if she reversed it? . Or if that will have an effect on the Arrancar , something along those lines.


I doubt that. After their creation, the Arrancars are a whole new thing, independent of the Hougyoku. They have their own bodies, their own powers, etc etc. The destruction of the Hougyoku wot's affect them - like, if you kill a mother the kid is still alive, right? [erm... sorry for the cruel example, I couldn't say it in another way. Technicaly the Hougyoku is ther mother/father... or something like that.]

And aside that, Orihime could have just a occasional chance to destroy the Orb. Let's pretend Aizen is that stupid and makes her do her tricks. She will start rejecting it but I think at some point Aizen will see the Orb is getting powerless. At the worst way he will get her off the Hougyoku and will take it away - not so powerful, but still a big deal.
BUT Aizen isn't that stupid so I'm curious what will really happen.

[intercostalspac]

Since it seems to me that Aizen wants Orihime to reject the H, then she should do the opposite...whatever its opposite is...:confused:

If the time comes that she rejects it, perhaps the process would be to unseal the H first and then when it is unsealed she won't be able to finish rejecting it because Aizen & company will unleash their reatsu and it will be a difficult task for her?

[Lucia]

Aizen didn't say he wanted her to reject the Hougyoko. He didn't really say much nor order her to do anything to the orb. It's her decision to reject it into non-existence.

Someone here mention that what if the Hougyoko that Aizen showed her isn't the real one, but an illusion. That in fact, he hypnotize her with his zanpakatou without her knowing about it. I think it's interesting and I think it's sounds possible since I'm always at odd on why he just showed it to her without asking her to do something to it. Grimmjaw's words to Ichigo about something happening to Orihime, might be tied in to that theory too - that she's been hypnotize by Aizen. For what purpose, I have no idea, but the theory is quite interesting, imo.

[scooz]

I do agree that Aizen is not stupid enough to NOT realize the possibility of what Orihime is planning...but to be honest, destroying the Hougyuko is not really what I was talking about to begin with =P

[intercostalspac]

Aizen didn't say he wanted her to reject the Hougyoko. He didn't really say much nor order her to do anything to the orb. It's her decision to reject it into non-existence.

Someone here mention that what if the Hougyoko that Aizen showed her isn't the real one, but an illusion. That in fact, he hypnotize her with his zanpakatou without her knowing about it. I think it's interesting and I think it's sounds possible since I'm always at odd on why he just showed it to her without asking her to do something to it. Grimmjaw's words to Ichigo about something happening to Orihime, might be tied in to that theory too - that she's been hypnotize by Aizen. For what purpose, I have no idea, but the theory is quite interesting, imo. HAHA that's true, she did decide that on her own huh? hehe

another thing is, she has not tried rejecting objects before -- am i incorrect?

[scooz]

You're right. It is only recently that the idea of her powers rejecting an object has come into play because the extent of her powers has yet to set boundaries on the what, how fast, and how long something can be rejected because originally her powers were thought to be limited to healing.

[Kalyrn]

Perhaps the limit on Inoue's power is emotional. Like the more she rejects events the lower her grasp on reality becomes. Time outside of the object that is being is not changed but Inoue's perception of time is altered.

[scooz]

Yea, there is definitely an emotional connection cuz remember when she was in the Soul Society the first time and they were fighting that projectiles guy? When she fired, she did it without the intent to kill because she is not that kind of person, so he was able to deflect her attack. I think that the evolution of her offensive attack will be stunted by this, but her defensive and "healing" ability should not unless the three abilties are linked to one another.

[hAiFa]

I do agree that Aizen is not stupid enough to NOT realize the possibility of what Orihime is planning...but to be honest, destroying the Hougyuko is not really what I was talking about to begin with =P


yes...but i'm going to talk a little more about that :p ok, so orihime's plan to destroy the hougyuko was all based on the fact that aizen wanted her to "fix" it becase it was supposedly damaged while he made all the arancar. but as we found out later, he only kidnapped orihime to bring weaken soul society's defenses as most of the captains came to aid ichigo and the others. judging from orihime's position right now ( caught as the spectator of an impending fight between ichigo and ulquiorra ) its highly unlikely that she'll be able to get her hands on the hougyuko considering aizen trapped them all in hueco mundo. ( and the fact that he has the hougyuko with him) and even if she somehow managed to do that, as Sergelia pointed out earlier, wouldn't that screw with the whole story as we know it? the whole ss arc wouldn't have even happened. urahara might not be an exile and so on.


and with the whole changing the arancar back to hollow thing, i think that wouldn't work. i mean, once you become an espada and all, aren't you a seperate entity? i mean, like you can't be changed back. its like changing us back to babies or something. but then again, aizen did say that she could reject ANY event that took place. so she might be able to reject the fact that the arancar all became arancar at all. it's all very if's and maybe's. but then again, you have to take orihime personality into this too. i mean, she healed grimmjow's arm for him. even though aizen ordered her too, she could've refused too. he wouldn't have killed her considering that she was his bait. so do you really think that she would just reject the exsistence of countless arancar, especially after meeting nel?

ehhhhh.....lots of thinking. :D

[Shdo]

its possiable that her power is limited to repairing things and the idea that she can reject the orb or anything else is just Aizen playing mind games with her.

"sure you can reject ANYTHING"

"anything?"

"would i lie to you? look at this innocent face..."

"oh...so ill belive you...I REJECT THE HOUGYUKO!"

*hougyuko break and get reconstructed as a remote control with a switch*

"lol, thank you orihime...you released its power..."

"but you said..."

"you think i would tell you those things and wont know that you want to get rid of this? hello, i am a evil mastermind! owned bitch."

[Rain]

Well, it was never confirmed that Aizen wanted her to reject it at all, suggested in the one panel, but aside from that, not really. and he said that his only use for her was the be a bait (which half of us disagree with but that is a topic for the other thread) so even that isn't exactly a given

I don't think that her rejecting the hougyoku would mess with the plot at all

her powers don't turn back time well, in a sense you can say it does but that is jsut to the object.

If she rejected it to a point before it ever existed it isn't as if the timeline would completely shift back, the hougyoku just wouldn't exist


But i agree that she can't reject an arrancar back into a hollow, it would only be possible if becoming an arrancar was seem as an event:headscratch

Its possible, but I doubt we'll ever see it happen

[Aalicia]

... necropost of the year, no doubt.

I think Aizen told Inoue a bunch of bs, so that she thinks she can reject reality. The consequences of that are yet to be unfold, but I put my money on her actually forwarding Aizen's plans.

When Inoue's powers woke up, they told her she could reverse damage within the shield. Damage, period. But it's just like Inoue to go ahead and believe the bad guys more than the good ones, so fooled once, fooled twice, I hope she gives Tsubaki some usefullness before at least being fooled a third time by Aizen & Co..

[balladbird]

While Orihime's power sounds limitless, it seems to be directly limited to the spiritual preassure of her target.


Remember when she was healing Ichigo prior to his battle with Grimmjow? She commented that just the lingering traces of Ulquiorra's reiatsu was making it difficult for her to reject the wound. This is one of the biggest reasons why i don't really support all the "Orihime could reject Ulquiorra" theories that have popped up over the years.

At the same time, she had no difficulty resurecting Loly and Menoly after Grimmjow killed them, so i think her power of rejection works fine, up to a level of power somewhere between Grimmy and Ulqui.

[oppressor]

Inoue limit aren't only emotional even though her emotion could hold her back alot. After all 0.00000000000001 % of infinite would still be infinite. So her powers have a limit. What peoples need to keep in mind is to think in 3d. If she can reverse a one cubic meters in one second then for the entire earth it would take : 1,097,509,500,000,000,000,000 seconds or 34,777,977,412,731 years!

Further more we already saw her power hindered by reiaitsu. Clearly Kubo wanted to limit the damages.

Also while Aizen say that her powers were in the realm of god i think he meant that they had an use which they shouldn't have rather than they could reach god scale...

Finally keep in mind that Hacchi have the same kind of powers and yet we don't talk about him being godly. Further more their power strenght might be related to reiaitsu somewhere.

[Copycat1773]

I'm pretty sure that Inoue can only reverse things within the are of the shield. That said, she could theoreticly erase the Hogyouku and not affect the timestream.
Like, when she healed Jidanbo's injuries (Yeah, goin' all the way back to the start of the SS arc!) it didn't make it so that the entire fight never happened. It only rejected what was inside the shield.
And again, when she rematerialized Grimmjow's arm, time didn't rewind so that Tousen never chopped Grimm-kitty's arm off.
So, if she were to erase the Hogyouku, it would be the same as just flat out destroying it, and not truly reversing time. Also, if her rejection ability only affects that which is inside the shield, then the Arrancar would remain "alive", because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be stupid enough to go inside the shield and get themselves dematterialized (Wonderweis might be stupid enough, though. "Wyyaaaahhh... Pretty shiny... wyah, where'd my hand go!?":lmao).

[zaeya]

I like this theory and i believe that Orihime will become more powerful later on. I think that Urahara will train her and help her become more powerful like he did with Ichigo and Chad. Also she may return to the Vizards and learn more from the guy who has the same power that she has. I also beleive that she has more abilities but hasn't found them out yet. I believe that if she truly tried she could revert anyone or anything back to it's original state. The problem however is that she hasn't found out how powerful she can become yet but i think that when she returns from HM she and everyone will be a little stronger. I also believe that absorbing the particles from HM will cause everyone to exhibit hollow powers as well which will make them all vizards eventually.

So yes she can revert the H back to its original state she just may pull it off but after Ichigo defeats Ulquiorra

[Gear#7(dizzy)]

About Orihime's power to reject events for reject the events surrounding the Arrancar so that they revert back to their original forms or less, I think it's a nice idea. Right now I don't think she can do that, she need to overcome aizen that is great planner on every of his movement and can even fudging the Hougyoku itself (or maybe TK have another plan so by any chance she can destroy it with her power or that she suddenly become Hougyoku expert).

The source of all this misdeed, the Hougyoku, itself is not very clearly explain. In my opinion, Hougyoku looks like a material that holds great power (I think the power itself is sealed in this diamond like thing that is Hougyoku). In this case, the Hougyoku consist in somekind of composition. Orihime's power is to reject what's happening, or have happened, she can heals someone because the damaged have happened to them so she turn it back the way it should be, or the original. As said before, the original or Hougyoku is not clear enough, we only know it contain great power, what it's source or original is remind unknown. If orihime reject it, it's not clear if it will end the catastropes that have happen, or maybe it will cause another havoc (like if Aizen is intended to make her reject it to unleash it's true power).

Or if ,by any chance, destroying the Hougyoku will end the war and all, I don't think it's such a convenient way by using Orihime's. It will return Hougyoku to whatever it is, that still unknown what it will cause; her power is reject not re-compose or neutralize or anything else that will make a better chance for destroy-the-Hougyoku plan. Moreover, I don't think it's a good idea too if the Hougyoku being chop down to pieces by Ichigo.... well, that's why Urahara try to get rid of it by hiding it away in the first place.

But if the destroy-the-Hougyoku plan and if 'just by destroying the Hougyoku will end long time planned felony' is really work using Orihime's power, (like this thread starter said) she'll be more valuable than any Shinigami or Vizard.:thumbs

well, that's in my opinion, what do you think?