Question of Vaizards

[McDoogle]

Ok, everyone will agree with me that a vaizard is someone who has overcome and suppressed there inner hollow. But whats bothered me is, All the vaizard have zapaktou, so does it mean that they were once shinigami? and do they have shikia and bankia aswell?

I would of thought to obtain a inner hollow in the first place u been to be a shinigami...

[Rain]

Vizard are shinigami who have gained hollow powers. So these vizard were shinigami first, they had to be (probably not part of the SS though). They probably have shikai (during Ichigo's training it looks like Kensei goes shikai) and maybe bankai.

[avidlinuxuser]

I agree with Rain. With that being said, it's not guaranteed all of them have achieved shikai. Almost certainly, not all have achieved bankai, With that being said, the fighting types in the vizards have probably achieved bankai. It doesn't look like Hachi really needs bankai since he can use his most useful powers with kidou.

[Rain]

I think the only vizards who have bankai would be Shinji (maybe) and Ichigo, whereas the rest might just have a shikai. Honestly I hope they don't have a bankai, but that's just me.

[avidlinuxuser]

I think Hiyori probably has bankai as well. She's definitely strong as hinted by the fact that her hollow took the longest to suppress. I don't think more than 3 or 4 have bankai. That is including Ichigo in the count. I see Kensei, Hiyori, and Shinji as likely to have bankai.

[twsl]

hmmm wasn't that girl with the green hair "special" as well? ;X like that she was so strong that she didn't even needed the infamous hiyori walker because she could already keep her mask on for an unlimited time ;X if i remember that well then maybe she could have bankai as well =D or so i think U___U;;

[Griffith]

they probably all have shikai, since they were shinigami first, and that is their dominant/original side.. They all definitely have shikai (we have seen Kensei's shikai already)

Bankai is debatable, since so few have the ability to obtain it. But I definitely believe Shinji has it.

[Pollux]

hmmm wasn't that girl with the green hair "special" as well? ;X like that she was so strong that she didn't even needed the infamous hiyori walker because she could already keep her mask on for an unlimited time ;X if i remember that well then maybe she could have bankai as well =D or so i think U___U;;

It has been said that she could use her masks for a very long time but perhaps it was not because she was very strong but rather because her hollow was very weak ; just as Hiyori taking a long time meaning that she was weak before becoming a vizard or that her hollow was very strong. Well, that's only my point of view.

About bankai, I hope that they don't all have it as it has already been said that shinigamis being able to reach bankai are rare. We already have the 13 captains plus Urahara, Renji, Ichigo and Ikkaku (and Yumichika and Matsumoto were shown training to attain it) so I hope only few others join the bankai-users club (let's say Shinji, Hiyori and Rukia).
Moreover, vizards must be already very powerful so do they really need bankai ?

And since Shinji told that Ichigo had obtained bankai without surprising anyone, then I suppose that some of them has it or perhaps they would probably have said something like "OMG ! He has bankai !" since it's supposed to be rare.

Finally, (correct me if I'm wrong) but Yoruichi is a shinigami yet I don't remember seeing her with a zanpakuto so do all shinigamis have zanpakuto ? (sorry if it's a stupid question)

[Saffire]

Yoruichi's an interesting case. In a flashback with Urahara, we can see she has a sword, but in Soi Fon's flashbacks she doesn't seem to carry one. It's absence in the Soul Society arc is explainable by the fact that she couldn't have carried it in her cat form, but after that, who knows.

[Rain]

Yoruichi does have a zanpakuto, she just never uses it, I'm pretty sure all shinigami have a zanpakuto, they just may not be able to use shikai or anything.

[Air]

Yeah, they were all shinigami.
To be a vaizard, one must be a shinigami first.

But the real question is.. Were they similar to Ichigo (human soul, with shinigami powers) in the beginning? Urahara creates them using the hogyoku? Did they escape from SS? Are they banned? There's some other method we don't know (like for natural-arrancars)? Or something totally different..

What I'm saying, is that even if we know the theory behind how the hybrid called "vaizard" is formed, we still don't know where this group of people came from..

About shikai and bankai.. I think they all have shikai. It's a small group, and they are all able to handle hollow powers. Being mainly shinigami, it would be very strange to not have a shinigami power that even lowly seats of gotei squads are able to..

Bankai, is a total different thing. Right now, I speculate that Shinji has it.. and Hacchi and Mashiro don't. I don't know about everyone else.. not enough informations. But I'm fairly sure, that Kubo will dedicate time to them, right after the current manga arc.. ;)



About Yoruichi.. yeah she's a shinigami, so she have a zanpakuto.
But we must remember that zanjutsu (sword technique) is just 1 of the 4 shinigami forms of combat. She was the absolute commander of the Onmitsukido (secret mobile unit), who are all extremely trained in another one of these 4 forms: hakuda (hand to hand combat). That's why she was able to develop the destructive "Shunko", a technique comparable in power with some bankai.

That said, I think that Yoruichi is so old, wise, trained, powerful, have the right knowledge, know the right people, have been so important and famous.. that she also have reached bankai :p

[BigBadBuu]

I'd wager that most, if not all have Bankai already.

If mastering Bankai means beating down a sympathetic version of your Zanpaktou, how could beating down the hostile side of your power be any easier?

There is the possibility that some have simply bypassed Bankai, preferring instead to rely on their hollow powers. Of course, there's also the possibility that hollowfication forever erases the possibility of growing your Shinigami powers (eg, Shinji said that once you go Vaizard, you can't go back.. and we've seen that Zangetsu is nowhere to be found).

Another interesting clue to all of this is that we see that Vaizard Ichigo no longer needs to announce his Bankai, similar to how Renji no longer needed to annouce his shikai once attaining Bankai. Could it be that Bankai is a prerequisite, then, for Vaizardisation?

-Buu

[Agmaster]

B3's post simply makes me happy at a possiblity I like being presented in an articulate fashion.

Though, I would miss Zangetsu.....not, Holichigo needs to wake up and play outside for awhile anyways.

[Velius]

Yes, I don't see how Vizards couldn't be shinigami before and basically still are. It would make sense that Bankai, at the least, would help control/obtain Vizard powers, but we really don't know. It's a really good guess, but that's all it is at this point. That does seem to be the order it goes in though, so its also a good guess that most of the Vizards have Bankia.

[McDoogle]

For hachi i would understand if he didn't have bankai or even shikia, because we haven't even seen him zapaktou, i would b surprised to see him with his mask at all :S he just doesn't seem like the right one. But for people like Hyori and Shinji, yea, they most probably do considering there strength.

[yanniv]

For hachi i would understand if he didn't have bankai or even shikia, because we haven't even seen him zapaktou, i would b surprised to see him with his mask at all :S he just doesn't seem like the right one. But for people like Hyori and Shinji, yea, they most probably do considering there strength.

Nah, we've seen him with a sword and I'm positive he is a Vizard because he is in their group. It wouldn't make sense to recruit someone who isn't a Vizard into the Vizards. ;)

Shinji I would say, if i had to pick one, would have Bankai out of their group.