Will Rukia learn Bankai? [Archive]

Shadoblak

08-11-2007, 07:43 PM

I vote no, because only a really small percentage of shinigami ever develops bankai, it's not some natural evolution everyone of them goes through, like with a Vastorode, if you aren't meant to be one, then you will never be. Same with bankai, the fact that Ichigo, Ikkaku and Renji have it gave everyone the illusion that it would be quick, easy and like expected for everyone to get it, but this is not the case. Even if Rukia would be destined to have it, it would take her so long to achieve it, a lot longer than the timespan of Bleach.

And I don't think she is destined for it. She started at the same time as Renji with the Shinigami study, she was the one who was portrayed as the one who was more gifted then, by being able to make the bigger energy ball, etc. So why does Renji have bankai already now? And she hasn't?

The problem is.....that makes way too much sense :p

And Rukia was better at controlling energy, even as a Vice captain with Ban Kai Renji still cant use kidou properly..it always blows up
So again I voted yes simply because shes popular, shes a main character and unless she serves some higher purpose, shes all but useless without it

Miranu

08-11-2007, 08:44 PM

I voted yes.. why? Lol why not?
I think She, and Hanatarou will gain the Ban Kai Ability in no time :O

Okay.. well, she's not useless w/o a bankai, got some überbrutal shikai abilities, and mybe she could finish off Aroniro without.. or atleast less injuries, if he wouldn't used Kaiens face. So.. Rukia is a hell Stronger, than Renji :P So there is a possibility for her, to learn bankai :) Although I don't want that, because Rukia + BanKai = Overpowered character /And we know, only the main Character, and the Big Bad Boss can be overpowered :S/

Sarada

08-11-2007, 08:46 PM

Zelos

08-11-2007, 09:08 PM

i voted yes because i seem to recall a part in Bleach where they said Rukia was at captain's level and all the captains except Kenpachi have a bankai. if she really is at captain level, then i think she would have a bankai.

Velius

08-11-2007, 09:17 PM

It is very much possible. The thing is, Kubo hasn't been setting up for the possibility very well so far. He should have done it right off the bat, like with Renji. But given how skilled she is and how far along she has already come with her zanpakuto, compared with other low level shinigami that we have seen Bankia training, she could be very close.

Shadoblak

08-11-2007, 09:24 PM

Well apparently she can make due without bankai, defeating Lulu and all. and she had her purpose in the SS arc as damsel in distress.

Anyway the whole reason of, she's an important character isn't really convincing. She already had 'powerups' in the forms of her dances. She's already on par with the Numeros, more is not needed, the captains will shine in the future in battles with the Espada, the rest of the cast, including Rukia, will take down the Numeros.

She can make due without bankai sure, but she can't play with the big boys.....I still say she will but I guess it would depend on who aizen has on his side, I mean..Right now he only has 13 on his side at or above captain level, the Espada and Himself Gin and Tousen. The numeros cant compare as we've seen from Grimm's gang, Demora and Iceringer. If he doesnt get some Vastroodes then no she probably doesnt need a bankai (I still say she gets it though :p)

And Zelos, I had two translations of what you're talking about, One said she was seated officer level the other said captain level so i really dont know what it said if anyone has a definitive translation it really would help :D

ForteAnly

08-11-2007, 10:13 PM

I think that Rukia will learn Bankai maybe during the winter war. Destiny has nothing to do with one learning bankai as long as the induvidual has the potential and the experience necessary to achieve it. The reason why Renji learned Bankai before Rukia is because Renji's been fighting longer than Rukia along with more dangerous fights that he's exposed to. Rukia has been bearly getting into more serious fights as the arc continues and she already knows three ability's of her Zanpaktou's shikai so it will only be a matter of time till she wields a Bankai of her own.

Beee

08-11-2007, 10:32 PM

She might learn Bankai.. but it depends on how. Will she learn it in the Ichigo way or do it in the traditionnal way? Bankai might look like something quite easy to achieve but it's not. (It's been explained by someone else so I won't xD)

Besides, even if Rukia learns Bankai, I don't think it would change her situation that much since she would still be weaker than most (if not all) captains and she would still be weaker than about half of the espada (if not more).

And that whole "she's the female lead" thing doesn't sound right to me. Putting aside from the pre-SS arc, Rukia has been much more of a secondary character than a main character IMO.

But I would still like to see Rukia have Bankai... but I don't really believe that it'll happen...

Syn

08-11-2007, 10:38 PM

That's your opinion Beee. For everyone, she's the main female lead (always placed first in the female characters on official Japanese site, not to mention she's also the favourite female (top 3 in the last poll) in Bleach, and one of the most favourite females characters in SJ.

AnimeGirlPan

08-11-2007, 11:04 PM

I say Yes..because many death gods can go bankai ^^

Save The Butter

08-11-2007, 11:55 PM

Unicorn

08-12-2007, 12:00 AM

--edit--

I'd say yes because if Renji could achieve bankai, Rukia should be able to develop hers soon. I remember that before they both became shinigami, Rukia had better control over her reiatsu than Renji.

Rain

08-12-2007, 01:18 AM

Does Hitsugaya having bankai or his level of strength have anything to do with rukia getting bankai:headscratch

Since being skilled with a sword or not doesn't affect whether she will get bankai, Rukia will most likely get bankai at some point in the manga because she is a main character, and there is nothing holding her back from achieving it.

Lady Orihime

08-12-2007, 01:27 AM

I think she will one day. I mean, I don't see any reason for her not to :)

ezxx

08-12-2007, 01:27 AM

highly unlikely

Nell

08-12-2007, 01:39 AM

Yep, I think she will. It's not that she needs Bankai for now, she can pwn with her Shikai. And thanks to that, shikai still has some significance, even bankai has become somewhat of a joke lately. I don't know if she is going to have 128917 dances or a bankai instead but the winter war is coming and her zanpakatou is an ice/snow type. meh, it has a very big potential, I'd say.

edit: oh and she should learn bankai by the time when she will fight with Gin. It would be a little tough for her to fight against a bankai, I guess :p

Axie

08-12-2007, 02:44 AM

I think she will, but I think she'll release bankai more towards the end of the manga. ^^ It'll probably one of the most beautiful bankai out there too.

Annie

08-12-2007, 02:47 AM

Why not? She already has three shikais, now it's time for bankai. But it probably will be around the end of manga.

Kibou_chin

08-12-2007, 03:13 AM

I say, if Renji can do it, so can she. So heck yeah!! >8D

speedphantom

08-12-2007, 04:23 AM

I think that it would be a bit much if Rukia achieved bankai since we're told how rare it is and only a few people in each generation etc so then you have her, who can't fight an espada, achieving bankai. Bankai is associated with captaincy and captains can handle an espada with some difficulty but still can handle them.

Rukia is VC level at most at the moment. How much can she grow really, she'll get a bit stronger but if she was to get bankai thats ruining it for me so I wouldn't really like to see that even though I would like to see Rukia win.

Panic

08-12-2007, 04:39 AM

I think that she has the potential to achieve Bankai. She did manage to defeat the 9th espada after all, even if she knocked herself out in the process. Though, she's awesome enough without Bankai.

yanniv

08-12-2007, 04:47 AM

Bankai is supposed to be a rare accomplishment and meant only for the strongest of the Shinigami. I voted no.

sephysarkon

08-12-2007, 04:50 AM

EDIT: (I voted no.)

I'd actually prefer her not to have one. Bankai would be ruined for me if there's ANOTHER person getting one.

We already have Ichigo, Renji (VC), and Ikakku (3rd seat, if I recall.)

So to me, to have another character, Rukia or otherwise, who doesn't have bankai previously (I mean, the Vizards may have it already/pre-storyline, so I'm excluding them) get one, would be downgrading the significance of having one.

Am I making sense?

~the seph

Miranu

08-12-2007, 11:19 AM

I told ya.. don't worry every Character will learn to be SSJ.. umm.. I mean Ban Kai in the end XD The funny thing is Rukia has more potential, for the Ban-Kai than Renji. But Renji and Ichigo learned Ban Kai because they wanted to protect her /okay and both of'em wanted to beat Byakuya XD/
As soon as she find someone to protect, she'll learn it in no time 2 days :O Trust me ^^

Guildenstern

08-12-2007, 11:58 AM

*puts on music, sings*
"~~HOW MANY ESPADA MUST ONE GIRL KILL BEFORE YOU CAN CALL HER A MAAAAAN~HOW MANY SHIKAI DOES A FEMALE CHARA HAVE TO KNOW BEFORE YOU SAY 'YES SHE CAAAAAN'~~" /bob dylan

Rukia will get bankai at the end of the Winter War I assume, because Kubo is a sadist and likes to draw it out for maximum suspense. She's the main female lead, even if she doesn't get bankai she's going to get something equivalent in pwning power. I guarantee it.

Jaina

08-12-2007, 12:44 PM

I think it's possible, but if she does, I'd prefer she get it the traditional way, through lengthy hard work and training. Obviously she's worked very hard over the years already, but I doubt she's near attaining it the way Renji already was in SS arc.

As for how rare it is, consider this source: Byakuya, Snooty McSnooterson, who also said Renji could never force him to one knee and Ichigo couldn't beat him in a thousand years. I don't doubt that bankai is still rare and impressive, but Byakuya may have overstated things a bit.

lainchan

08-12-2007, 12:55 PM

I think she will depending on her role in the winter war. If shes going to have a fighting role shes going to need it in order to keep up with the other characters, though I think theres a possibility Kubo may have something else planned for her.

A few more of the characters are bound to achieve bankai, this is shounen afterall, and Rukia being the second main character gives her a greater chance of being given it.

I don't really mind either way.
If she does get it at least it will be super pretty and it'll give me something new too gush over in Kubos art XD

cassoult

08-12-2007, 12:59 PM

While I do think she'll reach bankai at some point and as much as I'd like to see what it'll look like, I'm kind of with sephysarkon on this one: enough of new (and relatively untrained) bankai, show us what the experienced bankai users can do! Heck, I'm not even sure I want Zaraki to get bankai too quickly (shikai though, that's something else - can't wait to see his shikai).

Rukia's also a good character to use to explore what kidou and/or shikai can do, and I'd really rather see that than a generic power upgrade through bankai. So yes, she'll probably achieve bankai, but maybe not before the end of the series?

rei_ai

08-13-2007, 01:51 AM

Rukia's a strong character, and I voted yes, not only for the reason that she's the main female character of Bleach.
Apparently, she has 3 shikai forms and I don't see a reason why she wouldn't attain a high class ability such as Bankai. She manage to train herself in controlling those three dances, so if Kubo would permit, Rukia will be able to train herself to achieve Bankai.

There's no limit in achieving powers, that is.
Ichigo already achieved Bankai, and yet Kubo is making him stronger by making him control his hollow form.
So I guess, at some point, Rukia will also wish to become stronger.

Shadoblak

08-13-2007, 02:22 AM

I'm 89 percent sure Rukias not dead...it would be higher if Orihime wasn't magical :rolleyes:
I still say yeah

D.End

08-13-2007, 01:47 PM

Rukia didnt train herself.....the fists skills she trained w/ Kaien(we can see that when she fights AA)...

Ichigo and Renji just learn Bankai cuz they were trained to do that(by Yoruichi and Ikkaku)...make Rukia learn bankai by herself would be sooo fan-service...and she needs to train the same way of Ichigo cuz thats the only fast way to learn Bankai we know till now

hdx514

08-13-2007, 09:20 PM

i would've said no before, but now kubo's given her a "victory" against an espada, i say entirely possible, but it doesn't matter either way. by the time she gets it ichigo (who represents the power level of the main fights in bleach) would've at least moved on to top 3 espada level. and the fact will remain that compared to him, her physical powers are negligible. rukia has and will always function as a foil, helping ichigo develop his character and power. if she gets bankai it will be soley for that purpose.

helzchicken

08-14-2007, 08:17 AM

I think she will cause Ichigo did it and he's a complete dud... btw there are enough people who could train her eg. uruhara,byuaka, ichigo, rengi, yachiru, Shunsui Kyōraku (cause he's awesome), Jūshirō Ukitake cause he's her old captain and he's also awesome, but yeh and she could probably nag the hell out of someone like Hitsugaya or Ikkaku :P

speedphantom

08-14-2007, 08:44 AM

Ichigo's not a dud at all haha, he's one of the most powerful shinigami ever. He starts slow, might not be very clever, no tactics etc but raw power he's definitely not a dud and obviously had enough reiatsu to achieve bankai.

Rukia's not a dud either, she's just above average for a shinigami but in order to achieve bankai you have to be insanely powerful, something she is not.

Syn

08-14-2007, 08:53 AM

It's not like she killed an Espada with a shikai heh... oh wait XD

Shadoblak

08-14-2007, 09:05 AM

Honestly, to be fair Aaroneiro was still a creepy looking gillian....And she caught him totally off guard (Why arent there more headshots in bleach? "YO SOY EL-*gets stabbed through the head*)Might have been different if it was her PLAN to have her sword broken fade in and out of consciousness get impaled by a trident then regrow her sword through an espada's floating head :p

Syn

08-14-2007, 09:19 AM

She still said she could handle him. I doubt a lot of shinigamis can kill an Espada, may it be only a Gillian (beside it was #9 which means stronger than Yammi who managed to hurt Yoruichi).

speedphantom

08-14-2007, 09:25 AM

She's not weak, but she's not up to bankai level.

To get impaled by a trident is pretty bad though haha >< but yeah, good point shado, it was partly luck involved, you can't TRY to do that kinda thing.

Shadoblak

08-14-2007, 09:51 AM

She still said she could handle him. I doubt a lot of shinigamis can kill an Espada, may it be only a Gillian (beside it was #9 which means stronger than Yammi who managed to hurt Yoruichi).

Surely you don't mean to say shes anywhere near Yoruichi???
And yeah hes stronger than Yammi, but probably now raw power, I'd say Yammi might be about level seven for brute strength.....But of course he's stupid....And Aaoneiro and Szaye have tricks up their sleeves I'm rambling though...
I'm still unimpressed by Rukia's "win":p

Syn

08-14-2007, 09:56 AM

Air

08-14-2007, 10:43 AM

To achieve bankai, one doesn't need to be uber-powerful.
The real power related to bankai, will come after someone learns it..

As we've seen (Renji, Ikkaku.. and Matsumoto, Yumichika trying to), the reiatsu level of a strong vice-captain it's enough. I think Rukia is not that far..

The real issue, is the level of "feeling" between the user and its zanpakuto. And thinking about Rukia and her 3 (and I mean THREE) shikai abilities.. I'd say, she's very good at this ;)

Marionette

08-14-2007, 12:16 PM

But tankhead didn't take her out by surprise, did he? Same thing I said about Chad...the ability to sense spiritual power is a show of spiritual power itself, the fact that Chad did sense what's his face's attack didn't mean that he was stupid, it just mean that he isn't powerful in that respect.

Shinrin

08-14-2007, 12:44 PM

Hmm... Either No or after Bleach ends

Shadoblak

08-14-2007, 06:34 PM

:headscratch
I'm not saying that she's near Yoruichi. I'm using a comparative example of strength for the Espada 9 and 10. Granted, they were probably close in strength, but Yammi managed to take out Yoru by surprise and Aaro took out Rukia with playing psychological factors (which are the worst in Bleachverse).
But Aaro was still stronger than Yammi. And Rukia managed to kill him despite all the factors that she had against her.

Yeah but by doing that he sealed his own fate, if he hadn't made her remember her training with Kaien, Aaroneiro would have come out relatively unscathed...She caught him with a blade througth the head..I mean....Even in mangaworld you dont usually survive a headshot....

Anyway, its not like I've held a grudge against rukia ever since she used the shikai she never mentioned EVER to kill Deiroy
*Moment of silence*
Or that I'm in no way impressed more by Aaroneiro or SzayelAporro than Yammi (YOU CAN DO IT!!)
:p

@lch3mizt

08-15-2007, 09:58 PM

Rukia is too weak she will never learn Bankai.

Abarai Madara

08-15-2007, 10:03 PM

Depends on what happens after the Heuco Mundo arc.

If she does, then she won't be in the storyline for awhile.

D.End

08-15-2007, 10:32 PM

She still said she could handle him.but then he said something like "really?" and he appeared right behind her without she noticed...like saying "I don't thing so".

Come on, just Rukia's fans(or those that say "I'm not a fan*but she's so frikin awesome*") got so impressed by her victory over AA

...imo, even Omaeda could kill a Espada if the guy puts his head/"weak point" in front his sword(iron ball), like crying "KILL ME PLZ!1!!1!"

I'm not saying she couldn't have killed him or something like that...but was a really lame way how Kubo ended her fight...a way that, for some ppl and my own, didn't mean she has the strong to defeat a real Espada...cuz honestly, fishtank!?! Even Yammi couldn't be so stupid like that.

Guildenstern

08-16-2007, 10:53 AM

but Kenpachi said something like "really?" and he appeared right behind him without Ichigo noticing...like saying "I don't thing so".

Come on, just Ichigo's fans(or those that say "I'm not a fan*but he's so frikin awesome*") got so impressed by his victory over Kenpachi

...imo, even Chad could kill a Captain if the guy takes off his robes and invites people to stab him in the chest/"weak point" in front his sword(fist), like crying "KILL ME PLZ!1!!1!"

I'm not saying he couldn't have killed him or something like that...but was a really lame way how Kubo ended his fight...a way that, for some ppl and my own, didn't mean he has the strong to defeat a real Captain...cuz honestly, Kenpachi!?! Even Renji couldn't be so stupid like that.

Fixed that for you.

Nice double standard you all are rocking in this thread. :headscratch

So if you're a guy in Bleach you can go into a fight confident, get your ass nearly kicked then fight back up, get a powerup and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat in one move, then fall down to the ground hurt so badly you pass out and you need a medic-- and everyone thinks that is just peachy awesome, but if Rukia does it then it's totally cheap and not-believeable and she just got a lucky shot at a cheap-ass opponent. By your definition then 70% or more of Ichigo's fights were Ichigo getting lucky against a weak and stupid opponent.

EWWWWWWWWWW GIRL COOTIES IN MY BLEACH

spacecat

08-16-2007, 11:05 AM

Well said Guild, there is a bit of a double standard going on around here, to be honest i wish people would get over it and move on.

Air

08-16-2007, 11:42 AM

Stupid opponent? Oh yeah.
Lucky win? No way..

It's been said since their introduction that Vastorode as sooo intellinget.. while Gillians aren't. Just look at D-Roy, Nakim.. and Aaroniero: they evolve from the brainless Menos Grande, but they aren't still that far. This guy played with his pray for too long.. and didn't see that he's giving her real opportunities to win. Someone like Ulquiorra wouldn't do something so stupid.

And I know why there's people who didn't like how that fight turns out: that's because the weaker wins against the stronger. Espada #9 was stronger than Rukia. But she won.

Why? Because even if this is shounen, power isn't everything. There's a lot more, going on in a Bleach fight.. This isn't simple as DBZ where the stronger one, always win.

And Guildenstern example is totally right.
Ichigo vs Kenpachi is another good example of a fight when the stronger didn't won, because there was other external factors that change the results (mainly Kenpachi personality: he didn't want to kill Ichigo, but just to have an even fight)

Rukia vs #9 is the same. Rukia won 'cause of her skill, her courage, her desire to revenge against that hollow that use Kaien-dono, and basically all her personality.. and also, 'cause of Aaro personality, and stupidity.

Sarada

08-16-2007, 11:45 AM

So if you're a guy in Bleach you can go into a fight confident, get your ass nearly kicked then fight back up, get a powerup and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat in one move, then fall down to the ground hurt so badly you pass out and you need a medic-- and everyone thinks that is just peachy awesome, but if Rukia does it then it's totally cheap and not-believeable and she just got a lucky shot at a cheap-ass opponent. By your definition then 70% or more of Ichigo's fights were Ichigo getting lucky against a weak and stupid opponent.

It has nothing to do with Rukia being a girl and the others being males.

The problem with Rukia is that she has been a shinigami, for a long time, and it takes time for a shinigami to train. I shouldn't have to tell you that it takes decades to get Bankai.
Renji worked on it for a loong time too. Kubo managed to insert that credibly during Ichigo's training, and advanced him to bankai, immediatly having Byakuya state he doesn't control it very well.
Ikkaku's bankai is more ... out of blue, and if you really think about it, it makes no sense either, but Ikkaku is a third seat and very strong, so that's why people accept his bankai so easily.

So Rukia, got pwned by that hollow in the first chapters, in a way that makes us believe she's not different from the average shinigami. You won't see a vice or a captain be so weak as to get wounded in such a way by a mere Hollow (except in fillers). She talked about the Menos Grande like it was the end of the world itself. Stuff that the special forces should handle, not a mere shinigami.
So then, enter Deeroy, like 150 chaps later, a Gillian, hybrid, so improved. And she kills him in 2 seconds, and we get all the stuff about Bya not letting her have a seat. Well newsflash, that doesn't mean she's anywhere near the level of a vice captain. Obviously Kubo wanted to hype her, IMO he did it badly. Too sudden. And if you love Rukia, offcourse you're loving it, but those who don't have Rukia-glasses on have difficulty buying the story.

And the difference with the boys from who we suposedly do accept the powerups is, they either were strong already, proven, or they are human freaks, like Ishida, Chado, hence they don't have to follow the slow advancement that a shinigami will be stuck with. They are free to progress.

Guildenstern

08-16-2007, 12:17 PM

So Rukia, got pwned by that hollow in the first chapters, in a way that makes us believe she's not different from the average shinigami. You won't see a vice or a captain be so weak as to get wounded in such a way by a mere Hollow (except in fillers).
Yeah, except for the part where she got hurt trying to save Ichigo's dumb ass from getting chomped when he tried to hit it with a chair. If he hadn't gotten in her way I'm sure she would have dispatched it with no problems. So um, no. And why the hell would SS have sent a shinigami too weak to kill a normal hollow to a real world patrol? -__- Yay for extenuating circumstances that make for difficulties for even an experienced shinigami!

So then, enter Deeroy, like 150 chaps later, a Gillian, hybrid, so improved. And she kills him in 2 seconds, and we get all the stuff about Bya not letting her have a seat. Well newsflash, that doesn't mean she's anywhere near the level of a vice captain. Obviously Kubo wanted to hype her, IMO he did it badly. Too sudden. And if you love Rukia, offcourse you're loving it, but those who don't have Rukia-glasses on have difficulty buying the story.
And? Ikkaku is only a seated officer, and nobody's sitting around doubting his abilities. Yumichika? Just because Rukia isn't going around being touted as OMG THE NEXT AWESOME VICE-CAPTAIN wwww doesn't mean she's not working on being strong. And 'too soon'? How long exactly did you want Kubo to wait before showing us Rukia's abilities? He's only been stalling since the beginning of the freaking manga. Up until the chapter where she killed D-Roy, she had her powers exactly one chapter, and in that chapter, she got herself hurt trying to protect Ichigo's dumb butt. Of course it was going to come as a suprise that she was actually not a pussy. We haven't had an opportunity to see her with her powers since the beginning of the manga. Don't act as if it's some giant suspension of disbelief that Rukia is actually not as weak as you wanted to believe, since neither your nor anyone knew what her abilities actually were. PROTIP: Thinking in a linear fashion about manga events as they affect the powers of characters in Bleach is not 'Rukia-glasses', it's the ability to differentiate between 'working to become stronger from a severe defecit' and 'lolz rukia sux plotkai lolz'.

And the difference with the boys from who we suposedly do accept the powerups is, they either were strong already, proven, or they are human freaks, like Ishida, Chado, hence they don't have to follow the slow advancement that a shinigami will be stuck with. They are free to progress.
Chad is proven strong already? O RLY? Exactly how many opponents has Chad beaten in the course of the manga to show how 'strong' he supposedly is? Rukia finished a fight with ease that left Chad a shaking, sweaty wreck. Renji has won exactly ONE fight since the beginning of the freaking manga. So far he and Rukia are even in that respect. Ishida spent a good portion of the SS arc and the beginning of the current arc powerless, then emerges from his Daddy's basement with a hax new bow and all his powers restored-- where are the complaints that it was 'too sudden' then? Ohhhh, wait-- it's because they're coming from unusual circumstances (Quincy in Ishida's case, god-only-knows-what in Chad's case) that they're given a pass? OK, fine. Rukia had some kind of doom orb stuck in her soul, gave her powers to Ichigo and then got stuck in a soul draining tower for a month. I'd say those are 'unusual circumstances'. And now she's back with her powers. How exactly is this different from Ishida?

Slow advancement that a shinigami is stuck with? Rukia's been a shinigami for 40-odd years (just to note-- 40 years is four decades), and her sword has -three- abilities. Obviously she's been working with it for quite a while. It's not like it's some kind of Ichigo-style miracle power up, she's earned all her abilities the way shinigami normally do. Now she's dumped the hougyoku and she's got a reason to need to be strong now, she's going to work for it harder. Which means---- SHOCKINGLY, she's going to progress. Renji and Rukia have been shinigami for the same length of time, there's no reason to pitch a fit at the idea that, while a bit slower, Rukia will pull one out as well. Please don't hold Rukia to a different standard of 'levelling up' than to the other shinigami. Chappy states that Rukia would be a seated officer if Byakuya wasn't being a 'tard-- Lo and behold, seated officers are kicking ass and using bankai! If they can do it, she can do it. Her only difference was that for a period of time she was held back by factors outside her control.

In short-- If you're going to sit here and claim that it's OOC for Rukia to be strong now because somehow, magically, you knew that she was weak before is not only a huuuuuuuuuuuuge assumption bigger than Oomaeda's butt, it's kind of asinine. It's not as simple as "LOLZ Rukia was freaked out by a Menos Grande and got chomped trying to save a human kid, that means she's weak", and if you think it is, then you've just invalidated more than 2/3rds of the fights in Bleach. Good job. -____-;;

Sarada

08-16-2007, 01:10 PM

Yeah, except for the part where she got hurt trying to save Ichigo's dumb ass from getting chomped when he tried to hit it with a chair. If he hadn't gotten in her way I'm sure she would have dispatched it with no problems. So um, no. And why the hell would SS have sent a shinigami too weak to kill a normal hollow to a real world patrol? -__- Yay for extenuating circumstances that make for difficulties for even an experienced shinigami!

So, in your opinion, a shinigami mustn't know how to deal with hindrances? And the way you say it, if it was *insert any vice-captain or captain* having to shove away a human harrassing him in his fight, they would've ended up in the same bloody mess as Rukia?

And you talk about a weak shinigami who can't even handle a normal Hollow ... Shinigami who deal with normal hollows are not the strongest of the bunch ya know. Otherwise you'd have Matsumoto or Renji out in the real world 'patrolling'. Patrolling is more dangerous than staying in SS, but don't make it to be the most difficult job there is.

And? Ikkaku is only a seated officer, and nobody's sitting around doubting his abilities. Yumichika? Just because Rukia isn't going around being touted as OMG THE NEXT AWESOME VICE-CAPTAIN wwww doesn't mean she's not working on being strong. And 'too soon'? How long exactly did you want Kubo to wait before showing us Rukia's abilities? He's only been stalling since the beginning of the freaking manga. Up until the chapter where she killed D-Roy, she had her powers exactly one chapter, and in that chapter, she got herself hurt trying to protect Ichigo's dumb butt. Of course it was going to come as a suprise that she was actually not a pussy. We haven't had an opportunity to see her with her powers since the beginning of the manga. Don't act as if it's some giant suspension of disbelief that Rukia is actually not as weak as you wanted to believe, since neither your nor anyone knew what her abilities actually were. PROTIP: Thinking in a linear fashion about manga events as they affect the powers of characters in Bleach is not 'Rukia-glasses', it's the ability to differentiate between 'working to become stronger from a severe defecit' and 'lolz rukia sux plotkai lolz'.

Ikakku isn't just 'some' seated officer, he's the third. And you don't need to bring Yumi in here, it's not needed, he doesn't have plotkaiish abilities. Unless you think defeating Ganju is a major deal.
And showing abilities is WAY different from showing unrealistic abilities. I never thought of her as a pussy, she's got a strong character, but the fact she has a big mouth wasn't really giving of a message that she's got this assumed bankai ability all of a sudden. Her defeats had to be justifyed by several other characters claiming her enemy was crap or stupid. It is as if apologising for her winning.
And loving your character should not prevent you from being realistic.

Chad is proven strong already? O RLY? Exactly how many opponents has Chad beaten in the course of the manga to show how 'strong' he supposedly is?

Note the 'or' in the sentence you quoted from me. And as you say, Chado isn't even that unbelievably strong, his strength is still within believable measures, he LOSES to enemies against whom he should lose. Not that I like it that he's got this losing streak, he should be granted a win sometime ...

Renji has won exactly ONE fight since the beginning of the freaking manga.

Yes he has, now it's not really usefull for you to compare how much everyone has been winning and losing, and again, he was a vice level, from the start, that you know, then we discover he has been training for bankai for YEARS, and he achives it, but as Byakuya says, it's far from a controlled bankai, so he's got a lot of trouble with it still, and he will spend YEARS to further master it.

Ishida spent a good portion of the SS arc and the beginning of the current arc powerless, then emerges from his Daddy's basement with a hax new bow and all his powers restored-- where are the complaints that it was 'too sudden' then?

When was Ishida not portrayed as strong? He defeated a captain, he's a very skilled Quincy, and he paid a price for defeating the captain too, and EVERYBODY knew he would NOT stay powerless. So he regains what he had, and a powerup. Note that Ishida, being a Quincy, also isn't bound to any restrictions. Also note that I am NOT an Ishida fan, far from it, but I accept his power. Becuase his power doesn't come across as forced.

And the soul draining tower and all that stuff ... why mention it, is she a Saiyan now all of a sudden who would get stronger from that?

She gets back her powers, wich may be seated level, but clearly weak enough to be pwned by a lowly Hollow in chapter 1, because a stupid human boy gets in her way. As said, a shinigami worthy of bankai would not make such a mess. And now she all of a sudden goes defeating Arrancars and Espada's. And all that after a month of training. You see a hitch there? you see the big hole? You should, it's larger than a Gillian's Hollow hole.

One final thing. Seated level. There are 20 seats in a division. So wich one is Rukia? Number 4? Or number 20?

Guildenstern

08-16-2007, 01:29 PM

So...being a seated officer is no big deal unless you're a third-seated officer, in which case it's serious business, unless you're Yumichika, who is fifth-seat and is clearly not a threat and not possessed of any plotkai-ish abilities, except for the fact that a fifth seat kicked a vice-captain's ass in SS arc. Oh, and did I mention his hax0r reiatsu draining weapon? And the fact that they show him training for bankai along with Matsumoto in this arc?

Her defeats had to be justifyed by several other characters claiming her enemy was crap or stupid. It is as if apologising for her winning.
The only people trying to claim #9 was weak and stupid are the people around here....

When was Ishida not portrayed as strong? He defeated a captain, he's a very skilled Quincy, and he paid a price for defeating the captain too, and EVERYBODY knew he would NOT stay powerless. So he regains what he had, and a powerup.
When was Rukia not portrayed as strong? And everyone pretty much knew Rukia wouldn't stay powerless after SS arc either. So she regained her powers and got a power up. And then beat an Espada. *raises eyebrow* Same, same, same.

And now she all of a sudden goes defeating Arrancars and Espada's. And all that after a month of training. You see a hitch there? you see the big hole? You should, it's larger than a Gillian's Hollow hole.

So Kubo isn't writing Rukia to be as weak as you think she should be, even though he'd given no previous indicators in the plot up to the point where she pulled her sword out as to what her power level really -was-. Because you know exactly what power level she was at the start of the manga based on the fact that she got hurt by a random hollow trying to help somebody. Because Rukia getting hurt and needing to give Ichigo her powers wasn't absolutely necessary to, you know, start the manga. Because Ichigo never got beat up when he was a n00b.

You'll get over it.

Sarada

08-16-2007, 02:21 PM

So...being a seated officer is no big deal unless you're a third-seated officer, in which case it's serious business, unless you're Yumichika, who is fifth-seat and is clearly not a threat and not possessed of any plotkai-ish abilities, except for the fact that a fifth seat kicked a vice-captain's ass in SS arc. Oh, and did I mention his hax0r reiatsu draining weapon? And the fact that they show him training for bankai along with Matsumoto in this arc?

Obviously you can't get the message and you would think seated level automatically means pwnzor, even when somebody would have a 10th seat.

About them training for it, please state the chapter it's from, or the specific filler episode. You do know fillers are like, not canon right?

The only people trying to claim #9 was weak and stupid are the people around here....

Ahhh my mistake, the old Espada only called him punk and said he died in a stupid way, but it should speak for itself.

When was Rukia not portrayed as strong? And everyone pretty much knew Rukia wouldn't stay powerless after SS arc either. So she regained her powers and got a power up. And then beat an Espada. *raises eyebrow* Same, same, same.

You keep equalising 'getting powers' with 'getting bankai'. And 'getting powers' does not equal 'defeating an Espada' in my book either. In my book, that's called plotkai.

So Kubo isn't writing Rukia to be as weak as you think she should be, even though he'd given no previous indicators in the plot up to the point where she pulled her sword out as to what her power level really -was-. Because you know exactly what power level she was at the start of the manga based on the fact that she got hurt by a random hollow trying to help somebody. Because Rukia getting hurt and needing to give Ichigo her powers wasn't absolutely necessary to, you know, start the manga. Because Ichigo never got beat up when he was a n00b.

You named it.

And you know ... even if it was necessary to start the story, Kubo should've realised that pleasing his fangirls isn't always the most credible option.

You'll get over it.

Oh I'm not the one with unrealistic expectations about my favorite character.

Jaina

08-16-2007, 02:35 PM

I think it's important to consider WHY Rukia was "weak" enough to get chomped in chapter 1. After reading chapter 0 a while back and giving it some thought, I came to a few conclusions. First, it's ridiculous to think that Soul Society would knowingly send an unfit shinigami on a solo patrol. It's incredibly bad strategy, and even if some officers are uncaring enough to let too-weak shinigami go, Ukitake is certainly not; we've all seen how much he cares for his subordinates. Not to mention that during chapter 0, Kiyone references Rukia having supported her on a living world mission in the past, so even if borderline shinigami did get living world missions, they'd probably get ones with some backup, not just get sent out on their own.

So it is extremely unlikely that Ukitake would send Rukia on a solo mission if he knew she didn't have the fighting skills. We also know that by this point, she had three dances (or at least two, if you wanna say she learned a third one after the SS arc), so she's no rank newbie; so why did she mess up and get eaten, if not sheer weakness?

I feel pretty confident saying it has more to do with inexperience than weakness. It was her first solo mission, and she was dealing with Ichigo, who was a real freak compared to what she expected from humans, and his unexpected actions. If Rukia had only fought with backup or in controlled situations before, then it's not that surprising to me that she allowed herself to be distracted enough for things to go south. Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying this is/was a battle weakness on her part; it was just a mental weakness, not a fighting skills one. And certainly one that can be overcome with time and experience. I don't want to blame everything on Byakuya, but it is pretty clear that in holding her back in seating and likely in what missions she was assigned as well (seriously, forty years for a first solo mission? Even for a genuinely weak shinigami, that's far too long for me to believe it didn't have anything to do with his interference) that he did delay certain areas of her development. So while Rukia's had plenty of time to build up her strength, tactical knowledge and overall skills, she hadn't had much time to use them in hands-on solo combat situations.

Plus, if you'll allow me to step outside the narrative of the manga for a minute, she HAD to make a mistake and lose her powers in order for the manga to happen at all. KT's demonstrated a commendable amount of forethought in his story planning, but it's also entirely possible that he hadn't decided on Rukia's true level of strength when he started the manga. It's not really fair to say that Rukia cannot be very strong now because he hadn't necessarily planned for it back then. He can't think of EVERYTHING from the very beginning.

Guildenstern

08-16-2007, 02:41 PM

You know you should like, go back and reread the manga a few times, right?
Ch.229 p 19-20
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/manga-rainbleach-ch229-019.png
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r83/Syneiam/manga-rainbleach-ch229-020.png (Many thanks to Syn who helped me find them)

Ahhh my mistake, the old Espada only called him punk and said he died in a stupid way, but it should speak for itself.
And Noitora just called Grimmjow 'trash'.

You keep equalising 'getting powers' with 'getting bankai'. And 'getting powers' does not equal 'defeating an Espada' in my book either. In my book, that's called plotkai.
The only 'plotkai' in Bleach to date is the plotkai that was required to, you know, begin the freaking manga-- Namely, the plotkai that Rukia got hurt so badly saving Ichigo that she had to give him her powers. The only plotkai Kubo is guilty of is making Rukia too weak at the start of the manga, not too strong. But then again, Rukia giving Ichigo her powers was required for Bleach to happen, so I guess it's forgiveable.

Quote:
So Kubo isn't writing Rukia to be as weak as you think she should be, even though he'd given no previous indicators in the plot up to the point where she pulled her sword out as to what her power level really -was-. Because you know exactly what power level she was at the start of the manga based on the fact that she got hurt by a random hollow trying to help somebody. Because Rukia getting hurt and needing to give Ichigo her powers wasn't absolutely necessary to, you know, start the manga. Because Ichigo never got beat up when he was a n00b.

You named it.

Wow, I'm really glad that Kubo's got you to help him write his manga for him, since you're so knowledgeable and creditable on the subject of what has or has not happened in the manga*. (See start of post.)

Plus, if you'll allow me to step outside the narrative of the manga for a minute, she HAD to make a mistake and lose her powers in order for the manga to happen at all.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNAR to counterbalance all the FAIL in this thread.

Agmaster

08-16-2007, 02:59 PM

blah blah blah, Rukia 40 years, blah blah blah, Ishida is hax, blah blah blah, Chad == pin cushion, don't really want to clog a page up with text, it's right up there people.

Shown training. That is what it all comes down to. We have only seen Ruru train in flashbacks...ever. Period. That story tool gives the appearance that her current power level has not changed much from the initial. You're getting too defensive and (ironically) letting cracks in the argument form.

Not that I really feel like debating this, I am just observing.

And because I'm fair... and don't like to make friends.

blah blah shock should never lead to defeat...blah blah blah first issues shouldn't have strange occurences to kick start the story...yadda yadda Ishida owned a captain, with a faux sacrifice....
blazay blazay, Ruru could be crap seated level, like how Hanatarou is faking weakness, only hers is forced.

Had any character been there patrolling, the same thing would have happened. Welcome to introductions to stories. Strange occurences are needed in a story such as this otherwise...it's just a normal day like any other.

Ishida paid a price that was written as permanent. Kubo lied for the story's sake. Ishida wasn't captain level. It's an all out attack that if not used by named characters, results in death.

I assume she is atleast top 10 seated level if Byakuya had to pull strings to keep her doing crap jobs.

..how is rukia bleeding pleasing fangirls?

Sergelia

08-16-2007, 03:00 PM

@No One In Particular

Honestly, Guildenstern pretty much pin-pointed all of it, but I wanted to add something in. The Karakura arc, and ESPECIALLY chapter 001, didn't exactly reek of 'consistency' to me, and that's understandable. As Kubo progressed the story, you will notice that villains got tougher and tougher - from the initial trouble Ichigo had with even defeating an ordinary Hollow, he is now fighting Adjucha class Arrancarized Menos Grande Aizen's Espada. >__> But we're not going all 'But Hollows weren't all that much! D:' are we? As villains get stronger, the protagonists must become stronger as well. I am willing to bet Kubo didn't even decide on the extent of a Shinigami's powers back then, just as he didn't decide on the extent of a Hollow's powers.

I mean... look back at Ishida and Ichigo vs. Menos Grande fight. =__= Everyone made such big fuss over a mere Gillian. Then, some 150 chapters later we learn that 'LOL! That guy was just a Gillian! There are ___ and ____, the bigger, more powerful and overall haxxed up kinds of villain :nuts!'

Rukia's level of power was never really shown to its true extent. Kubo couldn't exactly have her go "LOL, fear not, human, this Hollow is a piece of cake. :D" if he wanted to make Hollows look badass enough to be initial villains. If Rukia didn't have trouble defeating a hollow in the first chapter, do you honestly think the readers would buy them as respectable antagonists?

:| I know I wouldn't.

Guildenstern

08-16-2007, 03:16 PM

Hay Agmaster, you cheeky monkey. :3

Shown training. That is what it all comes down to. We have only seen Ruru train in flashbacks...ever. Period. That story tool gives the appearance that her current power level has not changed much from the initial. You're getting too defensive and (ironically) letting cracks in the argument form.

Not that I really feel like debating this, I am just observing.

They showed her training in the present during the current arc with Orihime in SS. Ukitake and Shuuhei watch it like tennis. It seems more like Kubo doesn't show her training as more of a cipher to keep us guessing about her power level than an indication that her power level is necessarily low.

You're being glib, Agmaster. You don't understand the defensive cracks in my argument. I DO. /tom cruise

Jaina

08-16-2007, 03:17 PM

Shown training. That is what it all comes down to. We have only seen Ruru train in flashbacks...ever. Period. That story tool gives the appearance that her current power level has not changed much from the initial.

Are you referring to bankai training or regular everyday shinigami training? Because while I agree it would be weird if Rukia suddenly talked about how she'd been training for bankai without it ever being shown before, it would never have occurred to me that she would NOT be doing regular training, even without it being shown. Yeah, we've only really seen her training in flashback with Kaien, but if she were SO traumatized by Kaien's death that she couldn't even bring herself to train anymore, I doubt Ukitake would find her mentally fit for any kind of missions. And spending time training just seems to be a part of what shinigami do on a regular basis.

What seems clear to one person is not always going to be clear to others, but it's possible KT never showed Rukia doing regular training because he considered it obvious she'd do it. I figure all shinigami spend time training, though some certainly more than others.

Agmaster

08-16-2007, 03:32 PM

Ah, a small flaw I will concede. I cannot recall her training with Orihime. For better or worse.

Sergelia

08-16-2007, 03:46 PM

Well, I for one will wonder what the HELL is Kubo thinking if he suddenly 'reveals' Rukia's been training for Bankai from her early days before meeting Renji, when she was roaming the streets of Rukongai with a tiny Zanpakutou hidden in her palm, practicing 24/7. >__> I don't think she's ever been training for Bankai, and as I believe she will eventually achieve it, she'll have to pull off a hax-high-speed training somewhere in the future chapters. But she's definitely been training her Shikai and Kidou. =__= And can we honestly expect Kubo to show Every Training Session Evah (tm)? Not gonna happen, *especially* as he wanted her 181-196 status to remain a bit ambiguous. And it was during that chapter skip that she trained the double-chant Kidou thing, I think.

So... Kubo will at least show us a glimpse of her future Bankai training. I don't think she thought that far yet... I mean, an unseated squad member without a sensei whose brother is being a bitch, daring to even THINK of getting a Bankai?

Nope, not bloody likely. But I think after HM arc she'll 'find the resolve' or whatever it's called these days.

Save The Butter

08-16-2007, 03:47 PM

I can see where Sarada is coming from. But I look back at some other cases of "wankery" and I guess Rukia getting Bankai doesn't look as bad to me. Orihime's nigh reality warping abilities and Ichigo's saiyan like powerup come to mind.

ezxx

08-16-2007, 04:04 PM

i'm with Sarada

Sarada

08-16-2007, 04:08 PM

You know you should like, go back and reread the manga a few times, right?
Ch.229 p 19-20

Ya know, now you are mistaking talking with your sword as bankai training. Dude, everyone who has a real Zanpaktou can talk with it.

Also, if yer gonna resort to name calling and cheapo insults, then I won't even bother talking with you Guild. Not to mention you bore me to no end.

Syn

08-16-2007, 04:16 PM

I think you missed the whole 'let"s try to materialize our zanpakutou in the real world' which IS the first step to bankai. Duh.

Sarada

08-16-2007, 04:50 PM

I think you missed the whole 'let"s try to materialize our zanpakutou in the real world' which IS the first step to bankai. Duh.

Syn I see them talking about conversation with their sword, not materializing.
Chapter 229 right? I got M7's scan ...

Seems both scanlators have a vastly different translation on page 19.

Syn

08-16-2007, 04:56 PM

Well, if you got a scan from Manga-Rain or Ju-Ni, you'd see that M7 messed up and that they talk about materializing their zanpakutou.

Guildenstern

08-16-2007, 04:59 PM

Ya know, now you are mistaking talking with your sword as bankai training. Dude, everyone who has a real Zanpaktou can talk with it.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/ccguildenstern/manga-rainbleach-ch133-15.png

*facepalm* As Renji says here, materializing your zanpakuto's form is the step next to bankai, which means that when you're training for bankai one of the final steps you do is to materialize it. The pages I gave you showed Matsumoto and Yumichika working on materializing their zanpakuto's forms. (You'll note in this scene Hitsugaya and Ikkaku aren't working on it. I wonder why? Because they already have bankai!) It's fairly simple, and it really has nothing to do with just 'talking to their swords' because I'm sure they do that fairly often. ^^;;; Forgive me if it wasn't clear what I meant when I posted those two manga pages, I thought it was self-evident. I guess it wasn't, so here's the explanation of what's happening in this scene.

Also, if yer gonna resort to name calling and cheapo insults, then I won't even bother talking with you Guild. Not to mention you bore me to no end.

I don't really recall calling you names, but if somehow I've managed to hurt your feelings by showing where you're erring I do apologize.

Edit: LOL @ Ralphy's picture. That's about what my pic of bankai would look like if I had to draw it too. XD

Sarada

08-16-2007, 05:00 PM

Guildenstern

08-16-2007, 05:16 PM

Well I'm not gonna go into 'which scanlator is right', since we're going offtopic with this ... and it's not about them 2 anyway. The fact they are trying to materialize, a Vice-captain and a 4th seat who should really be a 3rd seat blabla whatever Yumi's story was, ( wich is only a first step to bankai) doesn't mean anything for Rukia.

Um, the only reason I posted all that stuff is that you said it came from filler, which obviously it doesn't, but OK ^^;; No, we haven't seen Rukia doing this yet, which is why I said in my original post in this this thread that she'll get bankai in future, not that she has it now.

LOL *facepalm* to you too then, you just keep believing your little fantasy.

OK? ^^;; I apologize anyway if you took it personally, I didn't think refuting somebody on the internets would lead to actual bruised feelings.

As I said, I went on MY scanlation, wich said conversing. Nice you you to *facepalm* me. And care to tell me where you saw Rukia training for materialisation? Cuz that's what is true proof she is working on bankai.
Would you post your scanslation then? I'd like to see who translated it and what it says?

Also, I didn't post this to prove Rukia was doing bankai training, I posted it in response to your comment that Matsumoto and Yumichika training for bankai was a filler-only event, which it (depending on translation groups apparently, Manga Rain and Ju-Ni are in agreement at least) obviously isn't. My only point was that Rukia = seated officer level and Yumichika = seated officer level. Yumichika is training for bankai, so what's to stop Rukia from doing it in future and gaining bankai?

Agmaster

08-16-2007, 05:27 PM

Popcorn? Er I mean *decides to read posts so he can atleast be partially on topic*

First of all, if you're going to throw insults at each other, you must make them veiled. After all, blatant flaming is just wrong, right Vel and Rie?

Secondly, are you two even discussing the thread topic anymore or just nitpicking at each others' posts? Not that I mind, just when I do something like that, I have noone to play with normally. So, I'm jealous.

I'll close this with a restating that no...Rukia is not getting bankai. I'm willing to bet all my rep even.

Guildenstern

08-16-2007, 05:33 PM

Secondly, are you two even discussing the thread topic anymore or just nitpicking at each others' posts? Not that I mind, just when I do something like that, I have noone to play with normally. So, I'm jealous.

Well, I'm -trying- to make a point but it seems to be getting lost in the backwash. XD I didn't start out posting in here to make piles of tl;dr.

I'll close this with a restating that no...Rukia is not getting bankai. I'm willing to bet all my rep even.
I don't care what anyone else says about you, Agmaster, I <3 you. :inlove

Agmaster

08-16-2007, 05:36 PM

Firstly, the road to hell paved with good intent and all that...

More importantly, I have like 13 ways to respond to that. ALL of them funny. But I'll keep it brief...

"I know."
"Why don't you go be one with the matrix?"

Velius

08-16-2007, 05:39 PM

Ok, everybody has had their fun, lets just end this now. plzkthx. Stay on topic and no more going in circles.

~Vel

Tomodachi69

08-16-2007, 08:02 PM

Urazz

08-16-2007, 10:47 PM

Will Rukia learn bankai? Yes, I believe that in the somewhat distant future, she will. Hmm, maybe pretty distant. Personally, I'm sorta using Renji as to gauge her likeliness to get bankai.

To me, Renji's always been the stronger of the two and therefore more skilled (except in kidou XD). So, as a stronger shinigami, I figure that anything Renji has acheived, ie bankai, Rukia, who can presumably be training in the same direction as him, could also reach his current level in... maybe a couple of years. But that's all faulty reasoning and even as I think about it, there are so many things that make this theory of mine unlikely.

The problem with Rukia and predicting her true ability, imo, is that we've only seen so little of her since the beginning of the manga (as a shinigami) and because of Byakuya holding her back from the official seating and possibly vice-captaincy, we can't measure how strong or skilled she is according to Soul Society's seatings.

Then again, Renji, too, was a face without a rank at some point who revealed that he was on the brink of bankai. So... I dunno. XD

I'm kinda hoping that pre-Winter War training will include Rukia being in hte last stages of bankai training, but the idea that Rukia has been dedicating time and years to learning bankai seems farfetched.
I don't think you actively train for bankai unless you count trying to get to know your zankaputo more and get closer to it as training. Considering Rukia has several attacks with her zankaputo, I think she comminucates with her sword quite well and knows it fairly well. It wouldn't suprise me if she is close to getting bankai and gets it during the winter war.

I never felt Renji was stronger than Rukia. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Renji seems to be the better swordsman, has more power, and has a crazy hard worker kind of drive like Lee in Naruto. Rukia has natural talent to control her energy better which leads to being good at Kidou, seems quite smart and a good tactician, and she seems capable communicating with her zankaputo well if her having that many attacks with it is any kind of sign.

Avi

08-16-2007, 11:24 PM

She probably will gain bankai, seeing how the main crew powers up in the series. That is, only if she doesn't die.

Cookie-chan

08-17-2007, 06:02 AM

@Avi: Ohhh... avi-kun, don't say that! :cry Ofcourse she's not going to die!!! And she will learn ban-kai... :cry

intercostalspac

08-17-2007, 11:21 AM

I agre with Urazz. Rukia, in my opinion, communicates well with her zanpaktou. I am assuming that she is training, probably not towards bankai yet, but training at least to discover more of her zanpaktou's ability/strengths, so in the end it'd be towards bankai. Since, AA did not have 'shirafune' stored in his memory (and she is faster according to AA), i am thinking Rukia is training -- hopefully with Byakuya since she did that Kidou combo; again as stated by AA, a specialty of Byakuya.

i know it does SEEM like she is weak, but i believe Rukia is strong. I feel that KT is downplaying her true strength and wins...i wonder why? i hope this gets revealed sooner, but my logic tells me probably towards the end of Bleach. by the way, i voted yes.

NightMare

08-17-2007, 06:17 PM

Yes and it will be very powerful!!!

kuchiruki

10-26-2007, 04:36 PM

i really hope and believe that rukia will learn her bankai. she must, because she's a very strong charakter. i love her! :love

Kolbertt

10-26-2007, 04:46 PM

Rukia WILL learn Bankai... and it will be revealed in her climaxing battle near the end of the series

But yes, through some twisted plot twist, Kubo will give Rukia BANKAI

tari101190

10-26-2007, 05:52 PM

rukia is actually really cool...i just noticed...i no!

she is cool enough already...she dnt need bankai...

if she got bankai it will just make her less cool and more lame...

kuchiruki

10-26-2007, 07:38 PM

hm, i think she'll be cooler if she gets her bankai, but you're right, she don't really need it because she's already the strongesr character in bleach 4 me!!!^^

HaNa

10-26-2007, 07:42 PM

i beleive it'll happen in the future hopefully ^ ^ maybe in the winter war

Starwing

10-26-2007, 08:37 PM

I believe Rukia CAN and WILL get bankai. And I guess I'll explain that separately.

Rukia CAN get bankai:
This seems to be what everyone argues about. But they're forgetting one thing. It takes a long time for shinigami to train for bankai, true. But how long did Urahara and Ichigo take? What stops Rukia from doing the same thing? She is effective with her shikai and if she took out an espada, even accidentally, she definitely has enough qualifications to do it. Pre-bankai Ichigo wouldn't have been able to take out Aroniro w/o relying on Shirosaki.

And Rukia would definitely take the chance, given the proximity of the Winter War. If she wants to get stronger, she has every opportunity at her disposal. If she wants bankai, all that's needed is a word in Urahara/Yoruichi's ears.

In any sort of literature, we take the most RECENT developments as truth. And most recently, Rukia has been portrayed as a proficient fighter. Whether her fight with D-Roy and Aroniro are flukes or not, considering cold hard results, she won or tied.

Rukia WILL get bankai:
This one is actually harder for me to answer. In this arc, Rukia is demonstrated as an equal portion of the Karakura fighting force, on at least the same level as Chad, Renji and Uryuu. For the winter war, is there any of us that doubts they'll get power-ups? Uryuu has Ryuuken to learn from. We need to see more of Chad's powers, and Renji needs to become far more effective with his bankai. By the same token, Rukia will 100% get a power-up.

I would personally have rather see this power-up in areas of kidou, just to be different. But the zanpakutou is, after all, the shinigami's main arsenal. In the most recent fights, Rukia has shown that she DOES fight mainly with sode no shirayuki. Therefore, it is logical to say that her power-ups will be in the zanpakutou area, perhaps with a boost in her kidou side. And what is the most obvious zanpakutou power-up? The bankai. For the WW, another dance would be anticlimactic. As a side note, I'm willing to bet even Yoruichi would pull out a zanpakutou, no matter how much I want her to stay a hand-hand fighter.

And from a literary level, why would Kubo give Rukia a bankai? Because you shouldn't drop the line 'most beautiful snow/ice zanpakutou' without later supporting it. And truthfully, shirayuki is pretty and elegant, but I'm not sure I'd say it's the most beautiful just yet. Kubo needs to design something that satisfies the readers. And we all know Kubo's always up for a design challenge.

And in terms of story development, the later Rukia gains bankai, the more anticipation is built and the more important it is. Why was Urahara's bankai not shown? Why isn't Aizen's or Isshin's or Kenpachi's.

For that matter, how many of you who doubt Rukia obtaining bankai think that Kenpachi will never get bankai? Kenpachi is strong, yes, but he is even further behind Rukia in terms of obtaining bankai. And obviously we won't get much on Kenpachi's training either. And Kenpachi is already cool enough, he doesn't need a bankai. So why would he get one? Because anticipation is built up, and it's the natural progression of the story.

Same with Rukia. Kubo's gone to great lengths to build up anticipation for this zanpakutou; saying it is the most beautiful, showing it's powers minimally and pushing off significant power-ups. The market is ready, the editors are expecting it, so there is very little chance IMHO, that Kubo wouldn't give us Rukia's bankai.

kuchiruki

10-26-2007, 08:38 PM

yeah hana, i look foreward to it^^

and i can say it again and again, rukia WILL learn bankai!!!

tari101190

10-26-2007, 09:38 PM

btw i no rukiais pwerful...if she got more powerful she could potentially learn bankai...but i doubt she's there yet...

i doubt she will though...her plt importance isn't in fighting imo...she too major ofa character for that kinda...shes speical...

her having bankai wold be cool too...i just dnt want her to go dwn that road...

and having just shikai, but being the most beautiful ice-type zanpakuto is enough....it simple and great...

rukia has excelled enough anyway, her kidou is top notch now, as said by aaroneiro....

rukiai is perfect the way she is imo...

HaNa

10-26-2007, 11:02 PM

and having just shikai, but being the most beautiful ice-type zanpakuto is enough....it simple and great...

this is a shounen anime we're talking about..there's nothing like enough or limit word of a fighting series. and rukia deserves her right to have a benkai too as a main character..she has to power up..she was able to handle an espada with the shikai only which's a great thing..but that's not enough for winter war..she'll face stronger opponents and it's be near impossible to handle them with only shikai..do u think any one will like the idea of her winning against stronger enemies than aron by using shikai only..when she won that battle most of ppl were annoying of how a weak fighter (that's what they think -_-) like her was able to defeat arno by using shikai only and what do u expect them to response to the idea of her winning with only a shikai in winter war as well ..we'll have nothing new..and that's so unfair for an awesome character like rukia

Spartan27

10-26-2007, 11:06 PM

I have thought about it a lot, and I still don't know if she will learn it or not. The fan in me says that yes she will and it will be awesome, but then my mind tells me that she is VC at best, and only one of them has learned Bankai. In the end I think Kubo will do it, because Rukia is such a popular and great character, I also think it will end up being one of the better one.

Bunny

10-27-2007, 01:53 AM

I said yes!! I know Rukia has what it takes. It may not be now...but someday im sure we will get to see it! I believe in her! :D ^.^

kuchiruki

10-27-2007, 01:55 PM

yeah everyone, let's believe in our rukia!!! :uhuh

mitzibe

10-27-2007, 03:44 PM

No. We don't need other females to have bankai other than Soi Fon and Unohana and Yoruichi. Only old women have bankai.

Manna23

10-27-2007, 06:12 PM

I hope that she will, but I don't think so. That's only my current opinion though, with such a pretty shikai, I can't imagine what her bankai would look like. :)

hemagoku

10-27-2007, 06:28 PM

it would be something less power than hitsugaya ,cuz his sword is the storngest of all ice based swords as he said

HaNa

10-27-2007, 07:04 PM

No. We don't need other females to have bankai other than Soi Fon and Unohana and Yoruichi. Only old women have bankai.

Are you kubo to decide that and do you rukia is child or something ..She's at least 150 years old >_>

snowlesswinter

10-28-2007, 01:37 AM

She should get it later, i think it is too early for the plot. Anyway i can't wait for her bankai to show up. I myself think that it should be something like hitsugaya bankai. Butterfly?

Shirafune63

10-28-2007, 04:49 AM

Yes, I think she will acquire bankai at some point in the story. As a major character, it wouldnt make sense not too. There could be other powerups used, but they would be mostly generic and not good enough to leave a cliff hanger to a next chapter.

I just think it a little odd to think that any of the main characters would stop improving just because theyve done enough.

yllanger

10-28-2007, 02:09 PM

Yes! I am confident she'll achieve Bankai.

Not now but later. She will get stronger. I'm guessing she'll show it during WW (--> sounds like world war to me, lol, winter war.)

I have thought about it lots and lots of times. Could her bankai be a small fairy-like being? A queen of snow sort of being? I even imagined inside my mind that it may look like Chappy. :p

it would be something less power than hitsugaya ,cuz his sword is the storngest of all ice based swords as he said

But you never know since we don't know Rukia's bankai yet. No one knows the potential of her power as of now. We can only judge when she's achieved it. Who knows, maybe her bankai is actually more powerful.

Vizard_King

10-29-2007, 02:08 AM

Yes! She well! I have my own version of what I think it'll be.
Snow Queen Sode no Shirayuki is the name

Mystic Serenade

10-29-2007, 04:57 AM

Maybe if theres like some sort of 50 year time skip or something. It'd be pretty hax if she got it now =/.

Tomodachi69

10-29-2007, 06:11 AM

Winter War is too close for her to suddenly learn bankai. She needs quite a bit of time, a year maybe, before I'd consider her bankai material.

But I'm sure she'll be able to get it at some point. Can't imagine for what occasion she'll use it, though.

Vizard_King

10-29-2007, 02:25 PM

No, if she uses the same Doll Ichigo used She'll get Bankai before the war starts.
And I think any occasion to piss Ichigo off well do

kuchiruki

10-29-2007, 02:38 PM

maybe she'll try it with the doll, to get stronger 4 the winter war!?

ZoneGhost

10-29-2007, 05:33 PM

If she get's bankai I may just weep; it's supposed to be amazingly rare and it's been stated many times that she is at best an average shinigami. She shouldn't get it.

stark espada

10-29-2007, 05:36 PM

Well if she does not end up dieing this arc there is a chance that she will learn it thought will it be like toshi's were it deals with ice or something else that is the real question?

HaNa

10-29-2007, 06:46 PM

If she get's bankai I may just weep; it's supposed to be amazingly rare and it's been stated many times that she is at best an average shinigami. She shouldn't get it.

Average shinigami huh..and by her average power she was able to defeat an espada :rolleyes:

They stated it many times??when?? Could you pleas post it here for me to read?

stark espada..Don't worry rukia won't die..instead look forward to her bankai :cool:

Vizard_King

10-29-2007, 09:50 PM

i think it'll deal more with snow

Lastier

10-29-2007, 09:56 PM

Bankai is 1.000 years to early for Rukia.

Tomodachi69

10-30-2007, 12:50 AM

Yea, she has the doll option, but remember, it's not for everyone. Just because Urahara and Ichigo could pull it off, doesn't mean anyone can. And I personally do not see Rukia as being on the same level as Ichigo or Urahara, that she can survive the 3day method.

eave

10-30-2007, 01:04 AM

I voted yes. Can't really go into detail as to why..personally its just something that is a big possibility. Altho seriously tho, if she really didnt get Bankai, its like any show ending with unanswered questions that tug in the back of your head >_< Serenity and Book..wtf was his life before becoming a minister..Lost- If it ended now..wtf was really going on there...etc. etc. it would be imo a little odd not to know more or shown the extent of her powers. Her powers to me, is as mysterious and mind boggling as Isshin and Ichigo..you know theres more but its up to Kubo when or if he shows that.

Vizard_King

10-30-2007, 01:07 PM

I wouldn't Underestimate Rukia, Todo. Holy crap, great reffrence to Firefly/Serenity (I think Book lived at the Abby his whole life and thats why he is a minister)
And your right, it's all up to Kubo in the end.

hello1993

10-31-2007, 09:19 AM

I know Rukia will learn "BANKAI"

u can see it in her laugh ~ referring to my avi:)

Urazz

10-31-2007, 10:36 AM

Considering Renji learned bankai without the doll or 1000 years method, I think Rukia will as well. That's the only logical step up for her really asides from learning some new kidou. She's pretty much got so many moves for her shikai that it gives the impression that she knows her zankaputo pretty well and is fairly close to achieving bankai. Giving her another shikai move will just exasperate people. It'll get them thinking, if her shikai has that many moves, how many does her bankai have? :D

Jobrill

10-31-2007, 10:40 AM

If she get's bankai I may just weep; it's supposed to be amazingly rare and it's been stated many times that she is at best an average shinigami. She shouldn't get it.

She defeated D-Roy with barely a thought, Her Shikai alone is comparable in power and grace to a Bankai, and She was the first and still the only member of the HM attack team to kill an Espada, and not only that, an Espada with a "weapon" tailor made to confuse and weaken her (via her memories and emotions of Kaien). I will weep when she gets her bankai alright - weep tears of joy at the pure badassedness of it all.

I don't see how Rukia's an "Average" Shinigami at all. An Average Shinigami couldn't have made taking down D-Roy look so easy. An "Average" Shinigami couldn't have taken down an Espada solo. An "Average" Shinigami couldn't watch over and train the burning shounen Ichigo Kurosaki.

hello1993

10-31-2007, 11:47 AM

If she get's bankai I may just weep; it's supposed to be amazingly rare and it's been stated many times that she is at best an average shinigami. She shouldn't get it.

average shinigami:confused::confused::confused:

so are u telling me dat an average shinigami can defeat an espada:eek:

bwahahahahahaha...... I don't think so! Rukia is not just ur ordinary girl(shinigami):D^^

Inuhanyou

11-01-2007, 03:25 PM

psh if kenpachi can fight on par with someone who's supposed to be many times stronger then him in just a few weeks, then rukia can have bankai in this time period

Jasse

11-02-2007, 11:50 PM

Yes, she will..

Its a matter of time.

AgaGonshouE3

11-04-2007, 12:08 AM

Yes, like the story said she has captain-like abilities..she might do one once she recovers from her last fight with the 9th arrancar

kuchiruki

11-04-2007, 03:08 PM

yes, if she's in SS again she'll try to get bankai! (hope so)

Dragonthorn

11-04-2007, 03:45 PM

God, I hope not.

She was able to defeat the no. 9 Espada without bankai, she doesn't need it.

You have to look at it in the context of who she'll be matching up against in the Winter War. There are 10 Espada plus Aizen, Gin, and Tousen. Do you think she'll be matching up with any of the, given that we have Ichigo and ten other Shinigami captains available, plus Urahara and Yoruichi? You've got the more powerful Vizards in the mix as well.

Put it simply, she probably won't be matching up to the the Espada during the WW given the number of other more powerful guys. She'll be kicking some numeros and fraccions probably, but she can do that at her current capacity and thus no need for a bankai.

She'll probably be the next Vice Captain of the 13th division... but bankai, no.

Desan

11-27-2007, 05:58 AM

I voted yes. She will eventually learn Bankai. Just like she got her Shinigami powers back. She is one of the main characters in the series. So it would be insane if she doesn't gain it sometime throughout the series. She has vice captain abilities because it was mentioned before in the series. Byakuya made sure she wouldn't become a vice captain to protect her. Also its not like the 9th Espada was anything special. He was kinda weak in my opinion and had a real major weakness. Plus, He also relied on Kaien's memories too much to defeat her while its been many years since his death. Like she wasn't going to be stronger since that time.

Marionette

11-27-2007, 06:03 AM

earthforge

11-27-2007, 06:30 AM

Agree with Dragonthorn. Rukia has her limits, just like any other character. She finished Aaroniero without it, but that was no plotkai. She caught Aaroniero off guard. He was busy laughing his maniacal ass off, when suddenly Rukia caught and killed him with one of her dances that was probably unknown to Kaien. If Kaien knew about her last dance, then Aaroniero would definitely be wary if she was at all in range. But Aaroniero saw her sword break and saw her resolve die for a second. That was enough for him to start believing victory was his.

The best thing for Rukia to do after Winter War is become 13th squad lieutenant. I have a sneaking suspicion Byakuya might die heroically in the WW (don't neg rep me, just a feeling!) and in his last moments he will apoligize to Rukia for holding her back from gaining a seated position. She will mourn, but then grow up and take the seat of lieutenant (don't neg rep me on here either.) Rukia has Kaien's legacy to carry on, and her heart lies with the thirteenth squad. Only then will Rukia have ultimately come to terms with herself.

Eventually she will probably succede Ukitake and gain Bankai. But I don't see Rukia gaining it now.

Marionette, Chad has possibility to evolve and grow stronger because his rate of growth and learning is unknown. And Chad is a main character. Everyone who interacted somehow with Rukia and Ichigo and helped them directly or indirectly (includes Orihime) in the first chapters is a main character. You have main characters and strong characters. But Kubo has already revealed his bias: through sending Soul Society captains to bail out Ichi and Co.: the strong characters outweigh main characters. If he favored the other way around, Rukia would not be lying on the ground with Byakuya protecting her cadaver as he fights a higher ranking espada. Rukia would be fighting because she is an important factor in the story.

Ichigo is an exception. He is the main character. His growth rate is exponential, and he is strong. So Ichigo is an oddball in the story.

PLEASE READ:
If you neg-rep me on here, at least give me a counterargument to chew on. This post is not biased on pairings!

Marionette

11-27-2007, 08:02 AM

And who are you to say that Rukia is limited and Chad isn't? There are speculations (which requires bases) and there are fantasies (aka "it will happen like this because I said so"). And no, the recuer didn't outweigh the rescued here, because it was the "main characters" that was featured for 100+ chapters; and considering the WW panel time is directly linked to fights, I doubt that Rukia is going to hang around "kicking some numeros and fraccions".

earthforge

11-27-2007, 04:32 PM

Rukia is limited because we have seen her rate of growth. She learned her first two dances in Soul Society and we can't determine her rate of growth through that because the timing is unknown. But SS was in a different era when she was training with Kaien. Now, I am guessing that Rukia learned her third dance after Aaroniero stabbed her (don't neg rep me here.) But seeing the distance between those times, that is her rate of growth. As for her final dance, she couldn't have done it after Kaien died (her heart was shattered.) And the only time she would be able to do it was in the training before WW, but it seems unlikely she came up with it when she was training with Inoue (not insulting Inoue, don't neg rep me.}

Now chad's rate of growth remains unseen. He had a block in his path from the beginning, and that was removed through training with Urahara. Now, he was at one stage then. It probably took him days (under Hueco Mundo, I know that's a factor) to get his Left Arm of the Devil. So Chad's growth is supposedly amazing. Of course we will never know until Kubo tells us. But until I see evidence in the manga that disproves this theory, I believe this.

Rukia will probably kill low-ranking espada, but she cannot grow enough to take on Nnoitra (I believe she might have a chance against 6 and any number below 6.)

Yes, the rescuers did. It proved the strength difference between the main characters and the higher ranking espada are too great. It basically means 12 chapters per strong character, and setting aside 25 for division amongst main characters. And if Kubo is a good writer period, he will not overrate Rukia, Orihime, or Ishida. Chad is still unknown. Ichigo is already overrated, so why bother?

PLEASE READ:
If you neg-rep me on here, at least give me a counterargument to chew on. This post is not biased on pairings!

HaNa

11-27-2007, 05:36 PM

Earthforge

You can't decide the limitation or the strength of a character centering on his rate of growth itself because the growth of power also depends of the circumstances that the person faces in order to surpass his situation. For example, renji and ichigo wouldn't be able to achieve bankai if their determined and will wasn't very strong in three days.. So saying rukia was able to learn only two dances with kaien and after his death till capturing orhime was a long time to learn her third dance which's a limit thing to a fighter is completely wrong, because you have to observe her circumstances first..after the death for kaien, rukia went to human world where she lost her power there and then she sentenced to death in soul society..so there's no way she can improve her strength in these days especially the gigai (not sure of the spelling) was forbidding her from recovering her power..so we couldn’t see her true power till ch 201 when she showed us her first dance and defeated D-Roy..

And saying chad is stronger than her is also a false thing to assume..because without ichigo appearing in the right time, he would have been killed by D-Roy in one instant, the guy whom rukia was able to defeat in few minutes.. I think if rukia was in chad place in ch 201, you'll see it in a different light..

Rukia will probably kill low-ranking espada, but she cannot grow enough to take on Nnoitra (I believe she might have a chance against 6 and any number below 6.)

Don't forget that ichigo couldn’t stand a chance against noitra too, I'm not trying to say that they're in the same level but we still not sure about the level of rukia's strength yet and chad as well

PLEASE READ:
If you neg-rep me on here, at least give me a counterargument to chew on. This post is not biased on pairings!

Don't worry, I don't like ne rep ppl for stating their opinions, after all this is a place to discuss things no matter how hard the discussions can be ^^

earthforge

11-27-2007, 06:21 PM

Earthforge

How nice. You address me by name. It's refreshing to see after the pairing debate thread.

You can't decide the limitation or the strength of a character centering on his rate of growth itself because the growth of power also depends of the circumstances that the person faces in order to surpass his situation. For example, renji and ichigo wouldn't be able to achieve bankai if their determined and will wasn't very strong in three days..

Well, I'm focusing on growth because that is what Kubo likes to obsess on in his manga. Yes the situation was very grave. But they had a time limit to work on. Rukia has no time limit. The Winter War's start is unknown. With the date not known, how can one train according to schedule? The best fighters arrange schedules to fight by. Rukia, because she is a precocious shinigami, probably does this. So the situation this time in HM is different.

So saying rukia was able to learn only two dances with kaien and after his death till capturing orhime was a long time to learn her third dance which's a limit thing to a fighter is completely wrong, because you have to observe her circumstances first..after the death for kaien, rukia went to human world where she lost her power there and then she sentenced to death in soul society.

After Kaien died, there was a great space of time before she went to the real world. Knowing how her character is, Rukia must have been depressed and couldn't muster her resolve for at least a year. That is a traditional mourning ritual. This is important to Rukia. But Rukia still was deeply affected and the wound Kaien left in her heart had not healed. Renji had left her alone and Byakuya said nothing to her. How can one heal completely from a loss without any outside help?

And the time when Rukia became alive again was when she met up with Ichigo and Co. They helped her, were her friends, and were there for her.

.so there's no way she can improve her strength in these days especially the gigai (not sure of the spelling) was forbidding her from recovering her power..so we couldn’t see her true power till ch 201 when she showed us her first dance and defeated D-Roy..

True. But what other circumstances with Rukia are there to consider? She showed us the dance she learned from Kaien. That still doesn't change anything. D-Roy was a moron, the other arrancar backed that up. And he was also a low ranker. Of course Rukia pwnt him. It's a given.

And saying chad is stronger than her is also a false thing to assume..because without ichigo appearing in the right time, he would have been killed by D-Roy in one instant, the guy whom rukia was able to defeat in few minutes.. I think if rukia was in chad place in ch 201, you'll see it in a different light..

I am not talking about that. Chad has grown, if you read 253-263 again. At the time he was nearly killed there, his power still hadn't changed from the first arch. Rukia revealed her power. I'm talking about Sado now. If he didn't show his Left Arm, I would agree with you. But he has shown incredible potential. Rukia shows the same, but it will take a while for her to achieve any higher power.

Don't forget that ichigo couldn’t stand a chance against noitra too, I'm not trying to say that they're in the same level but we still not sure about the level of rukia's strength yet and chad as well

True. But we are sure of Rukia's strength. Her battle with Aaroniero proved that.

Don't worry, I don't like ne rep ppl for stating their opinions, after all this is a place to discuss things no matter how hard the discussions can be ^^

I still post it. And thanks for reminding me

Kuchiki Byakuya

11-27-2007, 06:28 PM

I think one day she'll be Ukitakes fuku-taichou... And she'll learn the BanKai too... :rolleyes:

taicho

11-27-2007, 07:16 PM

I doubt she will learn bankai (eventhough I like the idea) since except the taichous just ichigo,renji and ikkaku learned bankai (and they are all guys who enjoy fights and want to become stronger) She simply doesnt have a lot of fights. I mean who did she fight amd defeat? except arronierro who is undoubtly an espada she didnt have the fights to grow unlike ikkaku (zaraki), renji (byakuya) and ichigo (too lazy to write down all the names ;-)). Just my two cents and i could be completly wrong (like always :-))

SarahChan

11-27-2007, 07:46 PM

I voted YES. Cuz I think she will. But not now. Maybe when the HM is over or maybe after HM ends, there is another person who is more power and stronger than Aizen so she has to get stronger. hee :D

Jaina

11-27-2007, 08:00 PM

Will she, I have no idea--at the slow rate of progress Bleach has (it's still less than a year since she first met Ichigo) I would guess no, barring some cheating-type boost like Ichigo had. Should she? Can she? I suppose it's possible. She's got a lot of potential. But since we've only seen Renji and Ichigo actually achieving their bankai, I'd want to know more about what it takes.

I don't think she necessarily needs it, though. Definitely she doesn't need it to be a strong, competent fighter. (And one of the very few predictions I will cling too until KT boots me off himself is that someday, Rukia will become Ukitake's vice-captain.)

I do think it is a little silly to say "Well Di Roy was a weakling so killing him doesn't count." He was strong enough to be able to take down Chad before Chad trained for his power-up. No, he certainly wasn't uber-strong, none of Grimmjow's pals that night were; but he had strength, and so did Rukia. Not to mention that of COURSE the others were going to insult him after he was killed. Aside from the fact that he was not a high-ranked arrancar, in their eyes, anyone who falls to the shinigami that they consider so beneath them (as a group) must be a piece of trash. The trope that "good" characters stand up for their friends even when they're defeated and "Bad" ones write them off is pretty well established. It is also possible to acknowledge her strength and skills in that respect without saying oh, she MUST be able to achieve bankai; there's a happy medium.

There's really no way to tell for sure when Rukia learned the third dance, only guesses. Heck, we don't even know for sure how long ago Kaien died; it's easy to infer that it was a while ago (looking at Ganju's growth just as one indicator), but beyond that...who knows. The third dance could have come at any time between then and now. Kaien was a very good teacher and mentor to Rukia, so grief + loss of that teacher probably did slow down her growth as a fighter, but the worst effect Kaien's death had on her was mental; because of that, I see no reason she couldn't have eventually learned the dance on her own with Shirayuki or through training with others. It's not like Rukia would have stopped training entirely or she would never have improved, and beyond raw power, it's clear that she has indeed improved as a tactical fighter. Her tactics and quick thinking were very good against Aaroniero. To me, that's one reason I see her as a valuable fighter. It's not just the ones who pummel with raw power, like Ikkaku, who have a place in battle.

So, bankai...I don't know. But even if she never reaches bankai, I believe that there is room for her to continue growing in the abilities she has now, and I hope to see it.

HaNa

11-27-2007, 08:10 PM

Well, I'm focusing on growth because that is what Kubo likes to obsess on in his manga. Yes the situation was very grave. But they had a time limit to work on. Rukia has no time limit. The Winter War's start is unknown. With the date not known, how can one train according to schedule? The best fighters arrange schedules to fight by. Rukia, because she is a precocious shinigami, probably does this. So the situation this time in HM is different.

We still not sure fully of rukia's power and her fight with Aaroniero wasn't enough to measure her strength, so maybe she obtained her bankai by now but didn't use it in that battle..who knows and the time is enough for her to train before winter war..as it was stated in the manga it is about three mounths which's a long time to obtain bankai..

After Kaien died, there was a great space of time before she went to the real world. Knowing how her character is, Rukia must have been depressed and couldn't muster her resolve for at least a year. That is a traditional mourning ritual. This is important to Rukia. But Rukia still was deeply affected and the wound Kaien left in her heart had not healed. Renji had left her alone and Byakuya said nothing to her. How can one heal completely from a loss without any outside help?

And the time when Rukia became alive again was when she met up with Ichigo and Co. They helped her, were her friends, and were there for her.

You are saying that as if you have an evidence of rukia's depression in ss because of kaien accident, of course it'll be hard on her but we still not sure of the time she spent in ss before going to human world because simply the manga haven't illustrated this yet..so what if she went to human world immediately after kaien death to forget her sad memories by insisting form her captain ukitate.. it's still unknown therefore, I see this statement is weak

True. But what other circumstances with Rukia are there to consider? She showed us the dance she learned from Kaien. That still doesn't change anything. D-Roy was a moron, the other arrancar backed that up. And he was also a low ranker. Of course Rukia pwnt him. It's a given.

That moron was going to kill chad and he was one of those low rankers whom renji, matsumoto, toushiro and ikkaku had to pull all of their power and release bankai to kill them when rukia was able to use only her first dance to kill him >_>

I am not talking about that. Chad has grown, if you read 253-263 again. At the time he was nearly killed there, his power still hadn't changed from the first arch. Rukia revealed her power. I'm talking about Sado now. If he didn't show his Left Arm, I would agree with you. But he has shown incredible potential. Rukia shows the same, but it will take a while for her to achieve any higher power

Why you are so sure that it'll take a while for rukia to obtain a higher power? You can't read what it's inside kubo's mind..he can give her any higher power whenever he wants. I sometimes feel that rukia still has some hidden movements that she havn't use them yet.. maybe for more dangerous moments because her fight with Aaroniero was exception..with him she accepted her death because of her guilt toward kaien not till she remembered the real kaien exists within her heart, so she was able to finish him by using one and a new move

True. But we are sure of Rukia's strength. Her battle with Aaroniero proved that.

No we're not sure as I said above, rukia was fighting with her own guilt there, she couldn’t focus that much because of the fake image that Aaroniero used to confuse her.. not to mention he knew all of her techniques which was so easy for him to avoid her movements and fight her back easily.. He's a cheater fighter after all or else he wouldn't use this cheap way to fight.. if he didn't use kaien image, I believe we'll see the real rukia in the fight but because he used kaien to weaken her..we can't say that was the true strength of rukia..that's why I'll wait till we see her fights again with another espada or a strong opponent and then I'll judge..

I doubt she will learn bankai (eventhough I like the idea) since except the taichous just ichigo,renji and ikkaku learned bankai (and they are all guys who enjoy fights and want to become stronger) She simply doesnt have a lot of fights. I mean who did she fight amd defeat? except arronierro who is undoubtly an espada she didnt have the fights to grow unlike ikkaku (zaraki), renji (byakuya) and ichigo (too lazy to write down all the names ;-)). Just my two cents and i could be completly wrong (like always :-))

You forget the real reason why ichigo and renji obtained bankai in the first place..wasn't that to save rukia..so it wasn't because they enjoy fighting but for the sake of ppl they care and want to protect.. and rukia lost her power during human world arc and ss arc so it's normal not see her fights strong opponents..so after ss arc she was able to have few battles against D-Roy and arronierro which's why we have no clue of her true strength yet..

taicho

11-27-2007, 10:45 PM

There's really no way to tell for sure when Rukia learned the third dance, only guesses. Heck, we don't even know for sure how long ago Kaien died; it's easy to infer that it was a while ago (looking at Ganju's growth just as one indicator)mental;

it depends what you mean a while ago its obviously less than 50 years ago (that time she was adopted by bya) (ganjus growth always let me wonder about the aging process in ss since rukia didnt age at all that time but ganju became a middle aged man)

@ HaNa

true ichigos real reason that he obtained bankai was in order to save rukia. renji by that time was already close in achieving in (he could already materialize zabimaru)
But i didnt mean their particular intention when they obtained bankai I meant the characteristic trait which they have in common.

Regarding D-Roy he was even mocked when he died directly by ilforte (something like first he pesters us to bring him a long and then...) so i consider him from the very beginning as a weakling (so do I with chad) And as soon rangiku, hitsu and co had their limiter lifted these arancar where canon fodder. The only real big fish was arro (even he is a gillian). as you said its just a year since she met ichigo and most of the time she spent in that gigai and just trained about a