Does God exist?

[Alucard]

I didn't see a thread on this so I made one. I think he exists .......... yea .......... (I could make this longer, but I HATE TYPING ON MY PS3 DX)


I look forward to you adding an explanation why you think God exists. ~ Unicorn

[Rain]

I can see this being a very controversial topic, and it isn't really debatable, more like whether you believe in God or not.

I don't believe in the god that most religions worship, and I am not religious at all, so I haven't searched for a personal god, so I guess I don't believe in god at all.

hope that fits this topic:D

[Axie]

You can't really debate on things like this, people can just express their opinions. But, I don't believe in god either.. I'm more of a just believing nature person. ^^ I was never religious. XD

[emoloz]

Am not sure. I don't really think about it to be honest. I mean sometimes i think God helps you and somethings i think its all nature. Am not sure at all.

[LiquidTheBrit]

I believe there is a life force of some sort in every living being, as a part of a bigger 'life force' of the whole universe(which is where the 'life' returns to when the living thing dies), but I don't believe in god.

Besides, I'm agnostic. We'd never be able to perceive what it's like being a god, just like we can never perceive what it's like to have 360(or 359, hehe) degree vision, or 8 eyes.

[Shinrin]

Perhaps, perhaps not.

God might be an illusion created by mankind to lessen there fear of death.

He might also be a creator that just don't interfeer, Allowing his first creations to evlove on there own.

Or perhaps our subconsious that gives us a feel of guilt when we do something bad is what god is.

There's also the option that mankind feeling powerless created something that could fulfill there dreams

[Primera Espada]

I believe there is a life force of some sort in every living being, as a part of a bigger 'life force' of the whole universe(which is where the 'life' returns to when the living thing dies), but I don't believe in god.

The only difference between that and what most people consider God, is that most people feel that universal life force has independent thought.

I know only of a few religions who do not have the opinion that God is in everything, and that everything is a part of God. They all just phrase it differently. Semantics, really.

[Zelos]

hmm... hard to debate this >_>

i think God exists, but only in the most symbolic and non-literal way possible. is there really a sentient spiritual being that actually exists and will occasionally speak to prophets and other people? no, i dont think so. if God is referred to as an all-inclusive force of nature, then that seems to fit a lot better to me.

[ezxx]

God is a perfect being. That means it would be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omni benevolent etc. Since it's omnipotent, it can do anything it wants - making a square a circle, a triangle a square. It's in God's power to stop any unnecessary evil, meaning evil that doesn't result in any good. For example, say you're walking down the street and a boulder crushes you. There's nothing to be gained from a death such as that. That's an unnecessary evil God should prevent, however, it doesn't. Therefore, god doesn't exist.

That's one of my favorite denying god's existence arguments reinstated by my own words :>

[Agmaster]

Sure he does. Explain the evolutionary reasoning behind one leg being longer than the other.

[Primera Espada]

XD That's an awesome response, Ag.

At any rate, I find it humorous when people use the "why would god do something evil" argument.

Why should God make our lives perfect? Why *shouldn't* there be evil. How could we learn, grow, and triumph with no adversity. Total peace and complacancy is indicative of stagnation.

May God *wants* something imperfect in the universe. Ever think about that?

[Unicorn]

Alucard, do you mean a specific God or just gods / some higher power in general?

Some religions have more than one god, and some religions have gods and goddesses. Am not sure if you classify Satan as a god too, but its a fact that he's also worshipped.

[ezxx]

perhaps you misread my post primera, I said unnecessary evil. I almost defined unnecessary evil as evil without any good results like the ones you described. There could be other evils that exist that end up benefiting others but not every damn thing can be explained with it's all for the better.

[Alucard]

I was talking about 1 God, as in the true one. I think he exists because once you start walking in the religious path many great things start happening to you. And then some ....... .-.

[Primera Espada]

perhaps you misread my post primera, I said unnecessary evil. I almost defined unnecessary evil as evil without any good results like the ones you described. There could be other evils that exist that end up benefiting others but not every damn thing can be explained with it's all for the better.

I never said it was all for the better.

I said it was all the way God wants it to be.

world of difference. If God doesn't want the world to be perfect, if God *wants* the world to be balanced with good and evil, then I'd say there is no "unnecessary evil"

[ezxx]

well you may not have directly said that but that's what i gathered from your response. "...learn, grow, and triumph with no adversity" Nor did I say God wants total peace either or a perfect universe.

There is no such thing as unnecessary evil? Perhaps from your point of view every evil can be justified as a balancing act but not for me :>

[Unicorn]

I was talking about 1 God, as in the true one. I think he exists because once you start walking in the religious path many great things start happening to you. And then some ....... .-.

Depends on which religion you follow, different names are worshipped and declared the 'true' one.

I'm an Agnostic (don't believe in a specific religion) yet some pretty good things have happened to me. So yeah, IMHO its just the individual perspective and how you're brought up?

[speedphantom]

Its all about how you're brought up. If you're brought up Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist etc. you'll believe different things.

Each religion has gods or holy beings or higher powers etc, so you can't say there is one above them all since each religion would claim that. Then you're back at square one.

I personally don't believe in any religion or gods and I believe everything you see in this world is as a result of each individual playing their part in the world. I was brought up without religion but if I was born into a religious family things would be different of course.

I have had no one saying this is how it is, there is a god, they do this and that etc. so I've been able to make my own opinion up and my own opinion says there isn't.

Regardless of the existence of a god or gods, you just go through life anyway so I think it doesn't matter too much if they do or don't exist. You can live without believing in them.

[Kuchappy]

All I can say is it depends in your religion & faith.

Yes but what are your opinions on the topic and why?

- FH

[EternalDream]

Its all about how you're brought up. If you're brought up Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist etc. you'll believe different things.

I personally don't believe in any religion or gods and I believe everything you see in this world is as a result of each individual playing their part in the world. I was brought up without religion but if I was born into a religious family things would be different of course.


I don't think this point of your's necessarily true. I've been brought up Lutheran my entire life (my parents are Lutheran and I've been subject to tiny Lutheran schools all my life as well), but that's not the reason I'm one now.

Children believe a lot of things their parents/teachers tell them to because children have a naive, innocent mentality and don't know how to think for themselves. But as they get older, they learn how to develope thier own opinions. Every day I can choose to not believe in God, or convert to a different religion, or just stop believing in religion all together. But I don't. It's my own free choice to believe in God.

I have good friends that were brought up Lutheran and/or Catholic all thier lives, but they DON'T believe in God, or they're undecided in what they believe.

So you can't chalk it up to "they were brought up that way" because that doesn't explain my friends, and it doesn't explain why a lot of people convert to different religions, or why people become religious when they weren't previously. So you might have turned out differently, but you might have stayed the way you are too.

[speedphantom]

I guess, but I'd think there would be more people who would stick with what they were taught rather than whatever they came up with themselves.

[McDoogle]

I believe in god.... mainly because I've had my own personal experiences with things like the afterlife etc. Also because i was brought up in catholic school/s.

[NightMare]

Sure and i don't want to give more explanation cause there will be arguments with some people

[Evility]

Well, I'm pretty sceptical about God's existence. I was raised a pure atheist but I think even if my family was religious I still wouldn't believe in God. I'm way too much attached to the wonders of the technology. ;)

[Abarai Madara]

There may be some form of existence that created the universe, life forms etc etc.

But that form of existence most likely is nothing more than an incredbile source of energy. Not a figure, a man, a women etc.

[shake]

I don't believe in god anymore

religon is a tool used to control people, though at the same time it makes some people good and gives hope so it's not all bad

but since the negative effects it's had outweigh the good ones (imo at least), I don't like religon

[tari101190]

i don't really have relion per say either now. my own personal belief wouldn't fit into any religion i know of anyway.

i kinda believe in something guiding us like our concience but not exactly cos it feels like more than that too me. like things that have happened to me. i dont mean suernatural things btw so don't think im crazy...i just mean too many conicidences have happened to me when i think about things and 'talk' to myself in a sense if you get what im trying to say...

btw even if god did exist i would still believe in the scientific theories about how everything in the universe was formed etc...

[StarryInoueSky]

I believe in God. It's just a feeling I get and know. I don't know how to explain it but I've had a few... conversations and stuff. It's weird. Though there was a time when I questioned (when someone very very close to me passed away when I was 17) the existance and asked why they would do something cruel like that to someone? But afterwards, it was understandable why that choice was taken and it was for the best.

So yeah. To each their own I suppose.

[Shadoblak]

I think its as closed minded to believe there is no God as it is to believe that God is exactly what is described in one text or another.
Whether God is an old man in the clouds surrounded by beautiful angels, or he's a force in space that provides the catalyst for intelligent life, I believe 100% that God exists

[aznxenocide]

I believe in god.... mainly because I've had my own personal experiences with things like the afterlife etc. Also because i was brought up in catholic school/s.

Experiences with the afterlife? Are you...a ghost? :eek:

I fail to see why this thread still exists after there was a whole page of people saying it's not really debatable. XD

[Shadoblak]

It still existed because I hadn't posted in it, now that I have, all is right with the world XD

[Riekie]

@Shado: riiiiightxD

But yeah, I believe in the existence of God, a born and raised ProtestantxD

[emoloz]

I guess, but I'd think there would be more people who would stick with what they were taught rather than whatever they came up with themselves.

Yes but Society has changed and people tend to Question things more. Thus its why people tend to think well have this Historical scriptures just been made up to create social order and a value consensus in the world or really is it true? Were more intellegant too so of course we will question things more. It's not a case of sticking to what you know theres more to it than that and people are doing reasearch into it.

It is why i am really unsure about it. I won't believe until their is proof. Though i do think it would be cool if there is a God or Gods.

[aznxenocide]

Wait...what does:

"Thus its why people tend to think well have this Historical Scripture just been made up to create social order and a value consensus in the world or really is it true?"

mean?

And actually, we're getting dumber. :p

[Agmaster]

False. As a whole we are getting slower, fatter, weaker, but not dumber. See, someone makes all those things that make life easier. And to be smart enough to do that, you have to be smart enough to see how to solve problems.

[Frosted Heart]

Wow, this is getting so off-topic, it hurts. >_> Come on guys, either post about the debate or don't post here at all.

- FH

[Arrancar_Fan]

i for one MOST DEFINATLY believe there is no God but one,true God. Its in my religion. im surprised there arent any Muslims around. I guess that gives me some props ^^

anyway this isnt a topic that should be debated, its to sensitive. everyone has their own options. we won't know whos right (non-God belivers or God belivers) till we die.

so, ya :) we'll just have to see

[Vizard_King]

Good question. I'm not sure. But I feel that if something had to make this world, One would not be enough. As an Egyption Pagan I feel that there are Gods and Goddesses that rule over different things. Do I think these Deitys exist? I am not sure. But it is fun to think about. And part of me would like to think that Christian mythology is real. I wold love to try and become a Seraphim ((Six winged Angel)). I would also love for Soul Society to exist, who here dosn't want to become a Shinigami? I know I would!

[speedphantom]

Hmm, well,:p shinigamis have violent lives and I'm sure fighting isn't as fun as it might look. I mean you get cut up all the time haha XD and the pain! No one says it doesn't hurt.

Regarding the creation of the universe and all, its just my view that I don't really care how or why we're here but I just concentrate on living my life. I see no point in thinking about these things which are out of your hands. Whether or not there's a god, to me, it doesn't change anything in my life.

[Akutabi]

I would officially call myself an agnostic. But I believe if there is a being that created the universe and still the ultimate power in it, then it would be a much bigger entity than what has been described in many faiths.

[Shadoblak]

I would officially call myself an agnostic. But I believe if there is a being that created the universe and still the ultimate power in it, then it would be a much bigger entity than what has been described in many faiths.

Stephen Colbert: "Agnostic? Isn't that just an Atheist without balls?"
XD
But anyway I was taught that God was Everywhere and everything, and that he was unfathomable in mortal flesh...I dunno how you can get bigger than that :p

[Akutabi]

Stephen Colbert: "Agnostic? Isn't that just an Atheist without balls?"
XD
But anyway I was taught that God was Everywhere and everything, and that he was unfathomable in mortal flesh...I dunno how you can get bigger than that :p

So big that he doesn't give a damn about a tiny planet called Earth considering all the other places he's made. I never said he would be a nice god as everyone makes him out to be, just the one who created everything. Anything lesser wouldn't be that "godly" imo.


Ebon basically covers everything here (http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/greatergod.html)

I originally put I was deist in my post but for some reason thought agnostic made more sense in that sentence

[Unicorn]

But anyway I was taught that God was Everywhere and everything, and that he was unfathomable in mortal flesh...I dunno how you can get bigger than that :p

Yep. However the multi-billion dollar question is... what is His / Her name? :p


That's why I remain an Agnostic. I believe in a higher power, but any single religion hasn't convinced me enough that their version of God is the 'real thing'.

Belief without balls? Maybe. Does the religion you believe in guarantee anything?

[Shadoblak]

Yep. However the multi-billion dollar question is... what is His / Her name? :p


That's why I remain an Agnostic. I believe in a higher power, but any single religion hasn't convinced me enough that their version of God is the 'real thing'.

Belief without balls? Maybe. Does the religion you believe in guarantee anything?

Really? THATS why you're agnostic? :p Theres a difference between believing in God and being religious......Whether you call him Yahweh or Allah, he's the same being......"Versions" of God are just different interpretations of the same entity, which NOBODY has the exact information on...Remaining agnostic because nobody has told you anything to your satisfaction seems as though it won't accomplish anything...If you don't like the interpretations of God, discover your own...

[Unicorn]

No one religion appeals enough to cynical ol' me to make me want to convert and assign a name to the higher power. Buddhism is on my 'its alright' list so far


comically off-topic:

If you don't like the interpretations of God, discover your own...

Yeah I should. :lmao However I'm too lazy to start my own cult, and my friends are too lazy to join it. I (the Unicorn, I mean) am happy being featured on postcards, posters and movies at the moment.

Anyone know if Aizen likes his worshippers to dance nekkid in the moonlight? :D Or should we all learn the formal Japanese 3+ hour tea ceremony?

[GIN_ofTheFunk]

In my opinion, God exists 'till the very moment we stop believin' in Him.
I still believe, 'cuz I wanna believe, that's my only argument. (=

[Ninira]

Don't believe in God and I don't feel he exists. It feels like the equivalent of believing in a big Easter Bunny in the sky who gives us the chocolate 'o life. Religion certainly doesn't help, since it seems so darn centered on the idea that humans are THE pinnacle of God's abilities, and that'd make those abilities pretty darn pathetic, if you ask me.

[GIN_ofTheFunk]

Well, Ninira, people need to believe in something. Even if it doezn't exist. Is it God or something else with great power, like love, friendship and other fantasy stuff like that, we need it to survive. That'z why many people live in their innerworld and build towers of green stone- cuz that makes them happy , their hope makes them think they are something and their existance isn't a waste of space. So, if you don't believe in God, what do you believe in? (you don't look like undead to me :D )

[Bleu]

I really dont know if i believe in God. I believe in ghosts and spirits, but God,... i really am not sure.

A part of me wants to believe in god, wants to believe in divine judgment and the bible.

and another part of me believes that go is he embodiment of hope that we created to ease our fears, to aner questions we dont know the answer to.

[GIN_ofTheFunk]

I' m sorry I write in this topic again , but Bleu said smth. interesting, and besides I'm bored.
I can't explain how people who believe in ghost, inferno, magic and etc., cannot believe in god. In other words, Evil powers may exist, but Light ones cannot- why is that? Cuz life sux, maybe, why not- we see evil, we see dehumanization, we see so much death and demoralization, so... Satan and evil spirits may exist- we give 'yes' to this possibility. But why many and many more people reject god- cuz they don't see the good in this world, or smth. like that- this proves my theory, that psychology and the way people accept their place, plays a big role to their beliefs.
But let me tell ya somethin'- evil cannot exist without good and good cannot exist without evil. We can feel sorrow, cuz we know what is it to be happy. If we never've been happy, we won't recognize the sorrow.
Uuumm... maybe I started lose da point...so, anyway, two possibilities- everything is real, or nothing is real. One subject depens on another.
(= (Damn, I must be really bored to write this :D )

[Ninira]

So, if you don't believe in God, what do you believe in? (you don't look like undead to me :D )

I accept that most people need to believe in something bigger to make them happy, but I am content with my own little, admittedly futile life. I will live life, probably make little to no major impact, and die. I do not feel fate or destiny, or the Noodly Appendages of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster are pushing me towards this or that. I am fine with the idea of being someone completely ordinary guided by nothing but my own desire to do something or another.

God is certainly to give people hope, but what more hope do I need? I think that by my own power I will be able to do the things I want. I understand others would rather feel guided by some inexplicable force, but I'm fine feeling like what happens to me is my own fault.

I am happy just existing, but I don't believe God made me exist. I exist because of a biological process of mating and I have hope because it exists as an electrical impulse in my brain. Neither of them are really effected by the hand of the GFSM.

[GIN_ofTheFunk]

Ninira , I shall answer...again... yes, I'm just that evil :D ( I think I'm going to be kicked from the topic cuz of writing zo much)
You know what'z da part I liked best in your post?
I am fine with the idea of being someone completely ordinary guided by nothing but my own desire to do something or another.
You have my respect! This is the thing I tried to achieved all my life, but I just can't let this feeling of ' I'm so special, I must have a mission, I am NOT a waste of space, I am someone, I must fight' go away. That'z becuz I'm not OK with the truth our existance is meaningless. Why are we here, what do we have to do, when we die would be there any meaning we were ever alive? I cannot accept the answer of all of this is- ' Dude, the nature is f*ckin' with you, there'z no point, you live- you die, nothing happens, deal with it!' And I'm starting to think, that people who don't care and deal with the fact everythin' iz meaningless, are happier than those, who keep on protecting their fire of hope.
So, God HAS TO exist , even if the damn nature is God Himself.
Oh...and btw, you still believe something- you believe in the scientific analysys. That'z good for starting (=

[Primera Espada]

if believing in god was something to do when you are not accepting of your own insignificance then I'd never believe in God, since I've been taught from the moment I was born that I was no more important (often less important) than everything else.

My connection with the universe through qi-gong has taught me much though, particularly about God. When you can *feel* the energy in objects, in yourself, it's hard to believe that it's all not connected. If everything that thinks is connected, and everything in this universe is just various forms of energy, then thoughts themselves are just various forms of energy. To that effect, the entire universe, the sum of ALL energy is also the sum of ALL thought. It's the truest sense of the phrase "God is everything" if you will.

And yes, this is a *highly* unconventional belief. It makes sense to me though.

[manfan]

I'm a Christian, my mom is a Christian and my father is not a Christian. I had many opportunities exposed with Christianity, other religions and cults(occults/non-occults). My mother, and her sisters, they are quite dedicated into praying, which is something that I'd like to be one someday.

I'm sure everybody would agree that the nature itself....there must be something(or someone) that is behind it, or else, the earth would have flew away from the orbit, and crashed with the sun/other planets, or the universe gets exploded, etc, etc. You may say it's gravity that does it all, but then what fuel that kind of enormous gravity? Ultimately it leads to something / someone that ordinary people would conceive as God.

The problem with most of the people is like almost everything, people tend to put God inside a box. They tend in their mind to have certain attribute expectations of God, how God would behave like.....and like I mentioned before in religion thread, it's how their concept and perception of God that affect their own individual living.

Some people, due to the influence of their surroundings, have already admitted in their mind that there is no God at all, not even initiate oneself to find God through self-journey of discovery. And some people, when they realized that the religion that they've joined is not right or useful, they just stopped, having that bitter resentment against God, when it should have been on the people of that religion organization.

Some people expect God to be the genie of the lamp, wishmaster, hence they expect God to give in to their requests(demands).....and most of the time when they don't get it, they usually turn around and say God doesn't exist.

My God.....is alive in my life. It's a living God. I've heard a lot of things that happened to the things and people around me, that could not be possible, yet it's possible and you can't explain but God. However I also learnt through them, that you cannot expect God to conform to your demands....he is God, not your servant. The stuffs that you demand has to be according to Him in nature and words....the person who jumped into the lions' den last year and got killed for proving the non-existing God was a stupid person.....to say that if God exist, He would swoop down to save him.....when in actual fact he was an atheist, believing that God never exist.....hence it's proper I think that God didn't save him.

Sure God gives hope to people, but what's the point of giving hope to people who only believe him, but make that a one-sided relationship with Him?

[manfan]

Actually.....^___^U I didn't think about promoting Christianity on this thread....since the thread talks about God's existence....whether God exist/not exist.

Whether Christianity is the one / not....is another thread altogether.

I just want to point out that the reason why some people think that there is no God and why some people think there needs to have God.

These kinds of thoughts....or beliefs.....are what that influences how you live, behave and react.

[mitzibe]

Manfan bro! You are a Christian! :eek:

I never would have thought....

The answer we should be giving when posed with the question 'Does God exist' is pose another question:

Do we see God?
Do we feel God?
Do we taste God?
Do we have scientific evidence of his existence?

And lastly, why did he create cool dinosaurs and then destroy them, replacing them with us? Why can't we be animorphous? TALKING AND THINKING DINOSAURS! :nuts

Kewl.

[Hiraeth]

Mitzibe I can answer your first three questions with one statement. No, that's why it's called faith. If you don't have faith, then no you will never see, feel or taste God. If you do, you may never see, feel or taste God, that is not the point. Secondly do you have scientific evidence that God, or a being of equal validity doesn't exist?

[CooWings]

Not taking others personal accounts into this, but God very much exist to me.

No one can see/taste/feel/prove God. He doesn't exist.
There's the wind that you can't see/oxygen you can't taste/oxygen you can't feel/no evidence to prove otherwise.

So, yeah. It's either there for you or it's not. For me, He's really there.

[Primera Espada]

I find it funny when people assume that because we, in our limited capacity as human beings (though greater than animals) cannot understand why a sequence of events would be caused by any sentient existance that it must therefore have NOT been caused by that sentient existance.

I don't understand why my sister would chose to stay married. She still does. That doesn't mean she's braindead, or even any less intelligent than me. She has a different perspective, with different values and different factors at stake.

God, as a position alone rather than an entity, would have a completely unfathomable perspective, with uncalculatable values and factors.

It is rather presumptous of humans to say he can't exist simply because we don't see why he should.

Conversely, we cannot say he *must* exist.

We can however say that there are indicators that he does, or does not exist, and that we chose to place importance and weight to those factors.

I'll be honest with you, I know a LOT of people with a LOT of religious beliefs. It always bums me out to find that 90% of atheists *resent* the idea of god.

If you have resentment, or find the idea of god as a stupid one, well then, you aren't chosing atheism for very valid reasons. You're using it as an excuse to get back at a diety you feel is somehow flawed and therefore has no right to the spot of top dog.

If your going to be an atheist, be the good kind, not the emo cry baby kind.

[manfan]

I find it funny when people assume that because we, in our limited capacity as human beings (though greater than animals) cannot understand why a sequence of events would be caused by any sentient existance that it must therefore have NOT been caused by that sentient existance.

I don't understand why my sister would chose to stay married. She still does. That doesn't mean she's braindead, or even any less intelligent than me. She has a different perspective, with different values and different factors at stake.

God, as a position alone rather than an entity, would have a completely unfathomable perspective, with uncalculatable values and factors.

It is rather presumptous of humans to say he can't exist simply because we don't see why he should.

Conversely, we cannot say he *must* exist.

We can however say that there are indicators that he does, or does not exist, and that we chose to place importance and weight to those factors.

I'll be honest with you, I know a LOT of people with a LOT of religious beliefs. It always bums me out to find that 90% of atheists *resent* the idea of god.

If you have resentment, or find the idea of god as a stupid one, well then, you aren't chosing atheism for very valid reasons. You're using it as an excuse to get back at a diety you feel is somehow flawed and therefore has no right to the spot of top dog.

If your going to be an atheist, be the good kind, not the emo cry baby kind.

Personally, I don't agree with it completely....that human beings because of their limited capability, couldn't capture/determine the existence of God. It's really the choice that they've already made, whether to acknowledge God's existence. There are many ways to prove that God exist, however people, some people choose it the hard way....they choose the way that they themselves know it cannot be proven.

I did once participated in a debatediscussion with a very persistent, stubborn someone, and silly as I may add.....discussion was ....I think questioning the validity of the bible/Christianity, I'm not so sure....more than the question of whether God actually exist or not. The person quoted another scholar who tried to dismissed the validity of the story of Moses and the migration of the Israelites from Egypt to Canaan. Their arguements was 3 million Israelites in Sinai desserts .....there was absolutely no archaelogical evidences about these people in the dessert....hence the story of the migration was a myth.

Regardless of the points that I argued::
a)these people were travellers, they're not settlers, they stayed in tents which they would then removed and take them along, not leaving for other future generations to discover. Neither do I think they had the time to build their house with bricks for other future generations to discover.
b) pots and pans.....are mostly of clays except for swords…..I doubt the people there threw them, purposefully to be discovered, and even if they did, the stuffs that had been left behind, together with the others like animal cloth skins, dead bones(humans and animals) had already been…..in like 3000 years….were either disintegrated in the hot desert weather, or eaten up by animal scavengers.
c) They were living in the desert where it’s supposedly to be the land without food / water…..nobody with the right mind would want to build a civilization(in the desert) and live with them….and hence the records of them(Israelites) rendezvous in the desert were non-existing.
d)The desert is very far, wide and deep…..to find ‘the archaelogy artifacts’ left behind by the Israelites, on the assumption that they still in one piece after 3000 years….it’s even worse than finding the golden needle in the haystacks. We don’t even know for sure the route that Moses and the Israelites took when they rounded and rounded the Sinai desert
….
That person still insist on the invalidity of the Moses’s Exodus Story, due to the lack of archaelogical evidences in Sinai Desert(which is really big, hilly and wide)…..even despite me writing the same thing five times. >.> I have to tell myself to stop because either my language is very bad, that person couldn’t understand….or simply because that person has already made up his mind to stick to certain mind.

There are ways to prove the existence of God…..but whether you are willing to accept it as such….for yourself, it’s really up to you. If you insist on your own way, expecting God to conform to your demands……I personally feel that God doesn’t need to kow-tow to his creation for acknowledgement, it’s usually the other way around.


I do believe everyone already had in their mind what they think about God, and what they think about life itself. It’s what we call it as ‘worldview’.

Everyone have their own worldview, how they have already predetermined in their mind as to life and God. For atheist….atheist, well….I can’t say much except that they already had predetermined in their mind how the God of this world is, whether he existed/not….and what type of a God he is, negatively. For people who believe God in certain attributes, cling on to that certain attributes(love, peace, kind, etc) and then go on living with that kind of attributes, without realizing that God has the other side facets also. Most of the time, our concept of God is often than not,…..an extreme one….whether it’s a good extreme one or bad extreme one.

[fly]

Most of the time, our concept of God is often than not,…..an extreme one….whether it’s a good extreme one or bad extreme one.

Why do you have to describe it as such? I believe that Cezaria just explained on the futility of having believing in a 'probably inanimate' object to determine your own morality. However, it is not entirely respectful if you take it as an extremity. You saying that people with some belief in God places them in the ends of spectrum is either - 1. To worship them, or 2. To disgrace them because they brought the religion into unfavourable light.

Well, of course this is under the impression that if we judge a person by his/her religiosity. However, one's belief in God, these days does not deter the prevalence of his great virtues; and Cezaria was just expanding on how noble personality is not related to having high religiosity.

Having a belief in God or piety in religion is just all about you having a something to lean on - inanimate or not. Let's not go into this thing about how to prove the inexistence of God; it's the unnecessity of having something worshippable in your life that perhaps needs a little focus here. You just talked about a silly argument with another person on how to prove the existence of 3 million people once living in the desert. Of course, it may be proven archaeologically; but choosing to believe that God existed because an archaeological evidence provided a firm basis towards something that was said in the bible is personal choice. A person's view on God does not need to be extreme; nor is persistent pious religious people extreme - but then again choosing to act upon your belief by imposing others upon your religion is what i would like to say unnecessary. Saying that it is extreme is a testament of isolation and discrimination. With you believing in God; i do not think that this is apt to describe yourself.

[manfan]

I wasn't referring to Cezaria specifically, I couldn't properly respond to her post....for other reasons that had nothing to with this thread. What her belief and other people whom I couldn't see, I don't think it's because of their beliefs in real life that I couldn't see them.

I was referring to Primera Espada's post in regards to whether people are able or not to prove the existence of God, who then was referring to Hiraeth and Coowings and whom then refer to mitzibe(whom I also cannot see) as to whether they could see, feel, taste and whatever God. Generally people who asks such questions, see, feel, taste God--> to be proven the existence of God......whether they are atheists or agnostics.....they asks these questions because they know inside, reality these questions cannot be answered.

My response to PE, is very often most people have already predetermined their minds to certain concepts on God and life, as such they are called 'worldviews'. Whatever their worldviews would affect how they speak, think and behave.

Most of the time, our concept of God is often than not,…..an extreme one….whether it’s a good extreme one or bad extreme one.
I included the good extreme one plus the bad extreme one.

It's not the atheists/ agnostics ones who get often to be portrayed as the bad guys one here.....rather people who believe in God theseleves, whether they are Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Taioists, etc, etc. It's how these people, those who also believe in the existence of God, pray to God.....very often than not, especially the Christians....they too have a very extreme concept of God, 'a very extreme good concept' of God. Most often, their 'extremely good concept of God' is what that brings them to their downfall.

Example:
In Christianity, I think.....okay, I don't think it's just in Christianity, it's almost in every religion......in almost all religion, the emphasize is at that God is Love, we must all love everyone because God is love, we must all forgive, because forgive is the manifestation of love. That is the extreme side of God .....we conformed God into that extreme side, love.....but in reality God Himself is A Judge, A Fair Judge, who must judge us for all the wrong points that we've done in our lives, whether he loves us or not. And because according to the Christian concept(which is almost forgotten), that He's Pure and Holy God....every little sin that we consider as small, is a very big thing in his sight.

But Christians nowaday think it's so easy to just sin, do the things you like and then confess and ask forgiveness from God.....Jesus is one last taxi ride to heaven, after party.

What kind of God would want to be like that, to be treated lightly by his people?

Ninira mentioned about believing God because of hope, clinging to God because of hope.

Many people, their thoughts and hope that God(s) can be appeased with burning of perhaps a few joss sticks, colourful papers, foods....and then expect that God to bless them just like that, even though in real life they cheat, they don't do their work, they lie, they conspire. Do you believe God would want to be allied with such kind of people, people who do religious practices and rites to appease Him, but in the rest of the time; week, month/year behaves like hooligans, totally unlike Him?

What about people who pray for healing from God, but resumes their ways which are hazardous to their health?:rolleyes:

It's not really surprising to see many people fall out from it, to back slide from being a believer into a non-believer.....when God do not meet up to their expectations or conform to what they think He is.

As for others, these wrong concepts about God are being picked and adopted and be used against those who believe him.

[wicked_liz]

Does G-d exist?

For me, no.

"I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn't." ~Jules Renard

As an atheist, I'm not angry at god. I don't seek to blame him/it/her/them for the wrongs in the world, or to thank them for the good. My lack of faith in a "higher power" isn't a childish need to get vengeance, but is the result of years of pondering this issue.

I wasn't always an atheist, I used to be a person of faith, however I was never one to go through life always thinking and feeling the same thing.

"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." ~Saint Augustine


I have always approached the idea of G-d as something that had to be understood for one's own self. Like Dante, Vergil, Nietzsche or Goethe. The idea of god should never be above question or beyond speculation. I never expected to reach an answer. I expect my ideas to grow, change and evolve.

I saw people in this forum quote from the bible, and disagreed with that. The bible is a historical document, but it's less that 2000 years old and has it's own controversial history. The topic up for discussion is not one of "religion" but of "spiritual existence". The concept of god is most definitely older than 2000 years, so despite the prevalence of Christian beliefs; it's a dubious form of understanding this sociological and societal phenom.

Now the Hindu religion is more than 5000 years old. Many of it's "stories" carry within them the mythological concepts that were also popular during that time in Asia and ancient Europe.

The Christian concept of G-d is generally isolated into the idea of "Goodness" (re: "Paradise Lost" John Milton) But in Hinduism and in Buddhism (which came from it) the ideas of good and evil are mutually inclusive.

"There has to be EVIL, so that GOOD can prove it's purity above it." ~ teaching of the Bodhisativa


In the Buddhist way of life, god doesn't exist as something that is static, but rather it is a frame of mind. "G-d" becomes a higher state that is to be achieved through aesthetic living and meditation. Something that cannot be achieved in the span of one lifetime.

As an atheist I live a surprising "good" life. While I don't believe in sin, apart from being a heretic, I'm not actually much of a sinner. This isn't true of most people who profess to believe in the concept of G-d. Human history speaks for itself.

Many "Christian" people lead lives that are blatantly "unchristian". Because I'm not shy about my atheism, I often get criticized for it - While I expect people's need to believe in "something", I get frustrated with the hypocrisy of people equating the concept of god to specific religious doctrine. What I believe or don't believe should not be used to measure my worthiness as a human being.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." ~C.S. Lewis, "The Problem of Pain"

"Once one has seen God, what is the remedy?" ~Sylvia Plath, "Mystic"


"But I always think that the best way to know God is to love many things." ~Vincent van Gogh, "Dear Theo: An Autobiography of Vincent van Gogh", 1937

[Ninira]

Ninira mentioned about believing God because of hope, clinging to God because of hope.

Actually, that was Funky Gin (Ginofthefunk?) who said that people believed in god because they needed something to hope for. I made an argument that I don't have hope because God exists, I have hope because it's part of how my brain works.

[manfan]

Actually, that was Funky Gin (Ginofthefunk?) who said that people believed in god because they needed something to hope for. I made an argument that I don't have hope because God exists, I have hope because it's part of how my brain works.

very very sorry!:p I got the wrong message.

Yes, when people say about believing god for hope......i felt very deja vu.....it just reminds me of the stuffs I've heard and see.....and then I snapped.;)

But I suppose in areas like this.....having hope because it's an inherent thing in us or because 'god' gave it to us.....it's a matter of the chicken or egg first scenario. I suppose you are right Ninira.....many people subscribe to certain yearly religious rites and practices because of the hope that they had....that the higher entities would listen to them and grant their wishes.

But everyone have hopes, everything that are alive, breathing and kicking...have hopes. Including the atheists.....believing that God doesn't exist and the universe / earth / nature hold by itself without God.....it really takes a lot of hope, don't you think?

[SakuraChan]

I guess I kinda do believe in God.
I go to a Lutheran school, so I learn about it everyday. ;-;
It gets boring..

[Bleu]

the thing that every religion has in common is teaching. teaching us through story about things that you should do and not do, and teaching us to love one another. God just somehow was squeezed into that equation.. but his existence isnt important, in all religions it is a moral aspect that you are learning, not a heaven-all-mighty.. and thats what in the end of the day you get out of religion and its preachers.

To me personally, if i cant see God or talk to him/her/it.. then God does not exist. I only believe in what i can see. I think that if God was real, then Satan also must exist, and hes winning. Look at all the bad stuff that our world is enduring, and its all our fault as humans... so if God is the bringer of life and happiness, then "Satan" must surely be to blame for all the evil and hate. But then when i think about this, i realize that im creating scapegoats for the worlds problems, which is very...bad. Because the solid truth is that everything we do as humans, we do on our own, and there is no God there to decide for us whether or not we are going to drive home after a long night of drinking, or choosing with your partner whether or not you want to make a baby, create life.. and even choosing to end life. You make the choice on your own. Any argument that says that God chooses all of our actions would make me snap back "then that type of God isnt okay with me". I don't want to be controlled, i want to live my life on my own and make my own choices.

No matter what you say, we are all scared. Say otherwise and you are lying. And its only human nature to feel fear, afterall. The main componet of fear is usually "not knowing what will happen". For example, some people fear going into the ocean but are perfectly fine with going in a pool, because the fear what will happen to them..bitten, stung, or pulled under by the waves.. people are afraid of heights because one mistep and you could be soup on the concrete, people fear death because they dont know what will happen to them. people wont leave their homes because they fear..We do not have the answers we need to overcome the inevitable, and we never will.

I believe that "God" was created by Us out of fear. Once we have a reason why things happen then we fear it less, like death. we learned that when we die, we will be able to see all of our friends and family in heaven and live life again always watching over the living - doesnt seem too scary huh? We seek out answers, and for many many people, God is that answer. When we die we could very well see an afterlife, or we could very well just die in mind, body, and soul.. everything goes black, and all thats left behind is your body. you never see the light ever again.. nobody knows. And no text EVER written will EVER give substantial proof that god exists.. for all i know the people responsible for these works could be liars, and that is because Religion is everything. Religion easily turns into power, which today we could probably call "politics". Some of the greatest people we know in religious history may not have even existed, and that is because there is no proof.

I am not an atheist, and i dont fit into any religion.But, i do take things from every religion buddhism, christianit judiaism, and i pick moral aspects that i WANT to believe in, thus walking my own path and ot a path that "God" or anyone else wants me too. For not believing in God, you could curse me to hell, i don't care. But.. I live according to what i think is right. I love, i hate, i fear, i learn, and i live. I wont let "God"get in my way of being happy and living. I would much rather live going by own wishes and dying, then living by a religion and finding out that it wasnt worth it.. I wont let it get in my way, or push me down. If when i die I find myself in heavens gates face to face with god.. then, i will believe.. if he was to judge my lifeand deem it not worthy, then i'd be fine with that.. because i know that i lived a good life and i lived the way i wanted it..happily with the ones i love, and if "God" thinks that that is bad, then I will gladly dance with the devil.

Yet, This is just me. This really is a touchy subject so no neg reps please [=

[manfan]

the thing that every religion has in common is teaching. teaching us through story about things that you should do and not do, and teaching us to love one another. God just somehow was squeezed into that equation.. but his existence isnt important, in all religions it is a moral aspect that you are learning, not a heaven-all-mighty.. and thats what in the end of the day you get out of religion and its preachers.

To me personally, if i cant see God or talk to him/her/it.. then God does not exist. I only believe in what i can see. I think that if God was real, then Satan also must exist, and hes winning. Look at all the bad stuff that our world is enduring, and its all our fault as humans... so if God is the bringer of life and happiness, then "Satan" must surely be to blame for all the evil and hate. But then when i think about this, i realize that im creating scapegoats for the worlds problems, which is very...bad. Because the solid truth is that everything we do as humans, we do on our own, and there is no God there to decide for us whether or not we are going to drive home after a long night of drinking, or choosing with your partner whether or not you want to make a baby, create life.. and even choosing to end life. You make the choice on your own. Any argument that says that God chooses all of our actions would make me snap back "then that type of God isnt okay with me". I don't want to be controlled, i want to live my life on my own and make my own choices.

No matter what you say, we are all scared. Say otherwise and you are lying. And its only human nature to feel fear, afterall. The main componet of fear is usually "not knowing what will happen". For example, some people fear going into the ocean but are perfectly fine with going in a pool, because the fear what will happen to them..bitten, stung, or pulled under by the waves.. people are afraid of heights because one mistep and you could be soup on the concrete, people fear death because they dont know what will happen to them. people wont leave their homes because they fear..We do not have the answers we need to overcome the inevitable, and we never will.

I believe that "God" was created by Us out of fear. Once we have a reason why things happen then we fear it less, like death. we learned that when we die, we will be able to see all of our friends and family in heaven and live life again always watching over the living - doesnt seem too scary huh? We seek out answers, and for many many people, God is that answer. When we die we could very well see an afterlife, or we could very well just die in mind, body, and soul.. everything goes black, and all thats left behind is your body. you never see the light ever again.. nobody knows. And no text EVER written will EVER give substantial proof that god exists.. for all i know the people responsible for these works could be liars, and that is because Religion is everything. Religion easily turns into power, which today we could probably call "politics". Some of the greatest people we know in religious history may not have even existed, and that is because there is no proof.

I am not an atheist, and i dont fit into any religion.But, i do take things from every religion buddhism, christianit judiaism, and i pick moral aspects that i WANT to believe in, thus walking my own path and ot a path that "God" or anyone else wants me too. For not believing in God, you could curse me to hell, i don't care. But.. I live according to what i think is right. I love, i hate, i fear, i learn, and i live. I wont let "God"get in my way of being happy and living. I would much rather live going by own wishes and dying, then living by a religion and finding out that it wasnt worth it.. I wont let it get in my way, or push me down. If when i die I find myself in heavens gates face to face with god.. then, i will believe.. if he was to judge my lifeand deem it not worthy, then i'd be fine with that.. because i know that i lived a good life and i lived the way i wanted it..happily with the ones i love, and if "God" thinks that that is bad, then I will gladly dance with the devil.

Yet, This is just me. This really is a touchy subject so no neg reps please [=

To some extent I would agree.....that the opposite of hope would be fear. If it's true that fear drives a to adopt a religion, provided of course that person believes God.....practices whatever the religion requires, on the ground that God is watching him, and is going to drag him to hell for every wrong things that he is doing......don't you think it's a very good thing? That the fear of God, keeps him from doing crimes, like stealing, rape, killing, destroying, lying?

Then, in this time.....the reason why crimes are on a rise is.....because more and more people do not acknowledge God's existence, ie reject God.....Or for the others, the others who profess to be of certain god(s) religions, behave as if they do not fear God when they should have been? There are many incidences where pastors, monks, priests, nuns and imams that are no less different from the convicts in the prison.

Of course, in my opinion.....a lot of religions nowadays emphasizes on the practices which I think are very just for show/fun if not for spiritual purposes.

On another topic......what would you do, Bleu afterthat.....if you were to see God/talk to Him....after you had been proven that He existed. I always wanted to know.....for those who don't believe in God's existence or religions' anyway.....or those who are skeptical on the true God/religion(there's a slight difference to it)

[Soranushi]

On another topic......what would you do, Bleu afterthat.....if you were to see God/talk to Him....after you had been proven that He existed. I always wanted to know.....for those who don't believe in God's existence or religions' anyway.....or those who are skeptical on the true God/religion(there's a slight difference to it)

I want to know that aswell what would someone do if they met god after they died.

Also this kinda off topic but people take the Bible to literal dont just read it understand it look into what each story means like for example to me anyway the Story of Noah means "You should always help the animals we share this planet with never just let them die."

And isn't this does god exists topic supposed to mean God in General looking at these post everyone seems to be talking about the Christian God but I guess he is the Creator God from all religions

[manfan]

I want to know that aswell what would someone do if they met god after they died.

Also this kinda off topic but people take the Bible to literal dont just read it understand it look into what each story means like for example to me anyway the Story of Noah means "You should always help the animals we share this planet with never just let them die."

And isn't this does god exists topic supposed to mean God in General looking at these post everyone seems to be talking about the Christian God but I guess he is the Creator God from all religions

Actually.....I was referring to when living Soranushi,...not dead. The whole idea of insisting to see, feel and taste God when alive just to prove God's existence, amuses me somehow.....I just can't picture God appearing in front of a person who don't believe in him, particularly an atheist .....just so that he believes. Maybe ghosts, yes.....stuffs like that happen in movies, horror movies,....but God?

Even Moses who is God's prophet/servant, requested to see God's face-to-face, but God said no, because anybody who sees him will die instantly. There are many incidences in the bible where people experience God's presence, not necessarily see God's face.....angels....but fall flat on the ground by the sheer presence of it.

And if the person died and meet God in the first time.....hhmm.....I would imagine that if the person doesn't acknowledge God during his life on earth, behaves carelessly, without care in the world, like as if he's the king of the world, not God, hurting people because he only thinks of himself better than God......God would probably not include him in heaven, would He?

As in why the target on Christian God.....who knows....I tried to generalize, include other religions as well, pointing out the flaws on Christianity as a religion on a whole......but somehow......maybe because I suppose Christianity is the Western modernized, developed religion, I suppose.

[Soranushi]

Yeah sorry about that but I think normally the only way to see god without dying from his might and power or whatever you would have to be in Soul form or dead and in the tunnel light place people see after they die. Since he's God he could appear to us if he wanted too but why would he need too prove he exists besides that would take away our free will to believe in him.

Second is kinda difficult for me cause I believe we get reincarnated everytime we die(is that a Buddahist belief?) so we get another chance in the next life but that way also says you go to hell or turn into a ghost or a animal next time around if you were evil in the last life.....So I guess thats a No

Third:Yeah thats probably the reason why alot of people do that besides the fact that when they look at the world they say theres no god because of how it is but thats are own fault. This Planet of ours can be Paradise if we unite and put aside our differences and fix the World but it seems people conflict with each other because of their beliefs. Also alot of people tend to think God is supposed to fix everything for them because thats how they think God should be like and they sit around praying for salvation but do nothing to save themselves..............I do believe in God the Creator who made the universe with the Big Bang and made the Bible and possibly all other religions as a Guide to how we should live by being a Good Person in General by helping others when you can and by taking care of this Planet of ours after all we are only another species of millions that inhabit Earth

Well thats all I've got maybe I'll get new ideas after I read whatever post come after this and sorry if I may have said something wrong

[negativzero]

Ok, it seems like some people were not listening to my little warning from my previous post. So, if you actually thought you could post like a king and start bashing religion, or lack thereof of it, then, I'm totally sorry, just get lost from here.
I'm gonna delete the relevant posts so that we can start over on a clean slate and with the offenders taken care of.

Yeah, so please resume your little discussion here, WITHOUT the flames or bashing.

[Ninira]

I don't think God and human morality are intertwined. When an animal in a pack does something that is considered deviant behavior, they are kicked out of the pack. Same thing as human morality, if one human does something that is deviant behavior, they are punished accordingly.

I can see why so many people believe God exists, but I still stand by my opinion of him not existing. He's like a parachute to a lot of people, because most religions have something to do with an afterlife. No human really wants to be completely dead, gone and forgotten, so the idea that God will bring them back to life is something that I think many humans desperately want to believe in.

If God did exist, then I doubt that it would have any particular affection for the people on Earth, because if God did, there would be fewer problems. So obviously, God is favoring the people in the Altair system because we never hear that they have any problems.

[Bleu]

To some extent I would agree.....that the opposite of hope would be fear. If it's true that fear drives a to adopt a religion, provided of course that person believes God.....practices whatever the religion requires, on the ground that God is watching him, and is going to drag him to hell for every wrong things that he is doing......don't you think it's a very good thing? That the fear of God, keeps him from doing crimes, like stealing, rape, killing, destroying, lying?

Then, in this time.....the reason why crimes are on a rise is.....because more and more people do not acknowledge God's existence, ie reject God.....Or for the others, the others who profess to be of certain god(s) religions, behave as if they do not fear God when they should have been? There are many incidences where pastors, monks, priests, nuns and imams that are no less different from the convicts in the prison.

Of course, in my opinion.....a lot of religions nowadays emphasizes on the practices which I think are very just for show/fun if not for spiritual purposes.

On another topic......what would you do, Bleu afterthat.....if you were to see God/talk to Him....after you had been proven that He existed. I always wanted to know.....for those who don't believe in God's existence or religions' anyway.....or those who are skeptical on the true God/religion(there's a slight difference to it)

Well, i disagree that the reason crimes are on a rise is because of people not acknowledging god. I don't believe in him, but im perfectly lawful. (and so are all the other athiests or nonbelievers that i know) Personally, i think that people would be more scared of facing persecution then anything. Crimes can lead to imprisonment, or even death.. so that alone is reason enough to fear doing crimes, i dont think god would have anything to do with it. Like you said, preists and nuns ect also commit crimes and they dedicate their lives to God, so that is pretty contradictory.


If i met God, i would be honored and really really excited! I'd probably think "well whaddya know, he does exist." but, i would never feel regret for not believing in him in life, because he never showed himself to me or gave me a reason to believe him. Then me and god would become bffs. <3

[manfan]

I finally had time a little time to answer the posts......i think they are meant for me to answer....
Yeah sorry about that but I think normally the only way to see god without dying from his might and power or whatever you would have to be in Soul form or dead and in the tunnel light place people see after they die. Since he's God he could appear to us if he wanted too but why would he need too prove he exists besides that would take away our free will to believe in him.

Second is kinda difficult for me cause I believe we get reincarnated everytime we die(is that a Buddahist belief?) so we get another chance in the next life but that way also says you go to hell or turn into a ghost or a animal next time around if you were evil in the last life.....So I guess thats a No

Third:Yeah thats probably the reason why alot of people do that besides the fact that when they look at the world they say theres no god because of how it is but thats are own fault. This Planet of ours can be Paradise if we unite and put aside our differences and fix the World but it seems people conflict with each other because of their beliefs. Also alot of people tend to think God is supposed to fix everything for them because thats how they think God should be like and they sit around praying for salvation but do nothing to save themselves..............I do believe in God the Creator who made the universe with the Big Bang and made the Bible and possibly all other religions as a Guide to how we should live by being a Good Person in General by helping others when you can and by taking care of this Planet of ours after all we are only another species of millions that inhabit Earth

Well thats all I've got maybe I'll get new ideas after I read whatever post come after this and sorry if I may have said something wrong

The reason why people of different religions cannot come together, I don’t advocate this….is because to come together, they will have to compromise certain things, just to please others. I’m not criticizing the ‘reincarnation theory’ , but in the point of Christianity POV it’s hard to accept this concept without compromising ‘Jesus Christ’.

Reincarnation isn’t a Buddhist concept…..it originates from China and India….where if you are a terrible, terrible person in this life you will be reborn as a lower life form in the next life as a repayment of every bad, bad things you did in your present life. Not to criticize the ‘reincarnation theory’ it’s difficult for me to accept it……but the theme that Jesus died on the cross so that he can pay up for our sins, taking our punishments for the bad bad things we had committed…..would automatically be cancelled by the idea that we still have to pay for our sins/bad bad things that we had commited.

Further than that…..in regards to whether hell or reincarnation or purgatory than heaven……it’s not really up to whether you like or not, hence you adopt it.

It’s more to siding the one that you felt strongly, is the truth……whether you believe that ‘reincarnation is really true’ or whether you believe that heaven/hell/purgatory is true or not.

I think One God, if He is the true and all-powerful god, he does not make up different religions. He is God, someone whose words are to be true and unchanging. He cannot at one time form a religion, only to have that religion changed it’s perspective about how to approach Him and how He deals with us. If He changes His mind easily in that area, an inconsistent God….why should we believe Him at all?

And I don’t think that God appearing in front of you on earth, would take your free will……you still are able to make your own decision in regards to God. However with the decisions that you made, in free will…..it’s inevitable that you have to face whatever the consequences that comes with it.

Well, i disagree that the reason crimes are on a rise is because of people not acknowledging god. I don't believe in him, but im perfectly lawful. (and so are all the other athiests or nonbelievers that i know) Personally, i think that people would be more scared of facing persecution then anything. Crimes can lead to imprisonment, or even death.. so that alone is reason enough to fear doing crimes, i dont think god would have anything to do with it. Like you said, preists and nuns ect also commit crimes and they dedicate their lives to God, so that is pretty contradictory.
I did say ‘To some extent, I would agree’……didn’t I? However if you say that people are more scared of facing human persecution/punishment…..hence they don’t commit crimes, it’s not completely true.

Most crimes like burglary, murder, rape, arson are not done in open daylight for public scrutiny. They are committed by people who think they can get away with it, people who think nobody would be able to indict them with the crimes, including God…..which might to some people think that (a) He never existed to witness the crime commited. (b) He approves them(priests, prophets, monks(we are talking about Western monk churches) imams) of the crimes committed; eg adultery, pornographies, murder, taking stuffs from other because it’s their rights or easily forgives them once they confess their crime or pay tributes to them in the form of donation, a building of worship, getting yourself pierced and help transport ‘god’ to it’s temples, helping the poor, fasting for a day, week, month..
The first group of people who commit the crime, group a are usually mainly those disbelievers(of certain true god/ of god’s existence) while the group b are the believersof a god’s existence and of certain religion who still commit the crime.

It’s just not the hard-core crimes that I believe or ‘want it to happen’…..that God should punish…..stuffs like betrayal, spreading lies about a certain person, backstabbing, disrespectful to people especially to your parents, inconsiderate over others, taking advantages of others in the name of ‘right to do this/that’…….I think these people need to be punished, don’t you think? Most of the stuffs I mentioned are not covered up by laws…..it’s considered to be a common thing in the society nowadays.

Well, I shouldn’t be talking about the glum, glum stuffs.......


If i met God, i would be honored and really really excited! I'd probably think "well whaddya know, he does exist." but, i would never feel regret for not believing in him in life, because he never showed himself to me or gave me a reason to believe him. Then me and god would become bffs. <3

According to the Bible, Jesus Christ was God who came down to earth as a man. Most of his 13 disciples, except for Judas and John died martyr death after Jesus Christ, while sharing the Gospel about Jesus Christ. They really went out for their best friend, to the point of sacrificing their lives.

Jesus Christ, after his death and resurrection said to his disciples, ‘because you had to see my body, living, resurrected and I had to give you miracles, to prove that I’m he…..the people who do not see, yet believe….they are blessed.’ In another words, in my words …….he told his disciples that they are useless babies that needed him to show himself, perform miracles in front of them, so that they can believe.

Consider this ‘believe despite not see’ then as ‘faith’ for the people to come…..the future generations.

Why Jesus Christ had to come down to earth as a man, like what Soranushi said, it’s impossible to see God unless you are in a different dimension, that is God’s dimension. So, it’s possible then, that if God wishes to meet people and show that He exist, without them, the people dying….the next best move is to come down to earth as a human.

Why then God wanted to come down as Jesus Christ is another different matter altogether……I don’t wish to indulge further than that….sensitivity.

I don't think God and human morality are intertwined. When an animal in a pack does something that is considered deviant behavior, they are kicked out of the pack. Same thing as human morality, if one human does something that is deviant behavior, they are punished accordingly.

I can see why so many people believe God exists, but I still stand by my opinion of him not existing. He's like a parachute to a lot of people, because most religions have something to do with an afterlife. No human really wants to be completely dead, gone and forgotten, so the idea that God will bring them back to life is something that I think many humans desperately want to believe in.

If God did exist, then I doubt that it would have any particular affection for the people on Earth, because if God did, there would be fewer problems. So obviously, God is favoring the people in the Altair system because we never hear that they have any problems.

I can’t really follow through where you are sayingespecially the bolded ones…..but I suppose it had to do with life after death, I think…..whether the idea of God putting you in hell because you don’t believe Him or follow through His teachings/Rules.

I myself have no say in this…..whether God and human morality are intertwined or not. From Bible’s perspective….because man are made in God’s image…..morality may well come from Him.

As I said to Bleu…..the man done punishing accordingly, is usually when the said person is found guilty in the eyes of human law. However with God…….who is supposedly know all, see all, hear all even behind the lead wall…..nothing is left escaped. People tend to think either God do not exist, do not see, or He approve them to actually commit the deviant behaviour.

Of course I suppose God can understand.

As for parachute / umbrella(I think the word ‘umbrella’ more suitable in the raining days)……

I tend to see God in a kingdom royalist position…..actually there are other religions, it just is a little bit diverted from there.

The king / emperor is the top person that rules everything in his subject. In any kings/ emperors….it’s understandable that the king expect his subjects ranging from his palace house to the farm field to obey his orders/ worship his everything / pay tribute to him. In exchange…..the king provides protection, food, land, etc, In some kingdom(analogus to religions)…..the king is helped by his government officials, who at certain department is appointed by the king. The problem that rose from that system, division of administrations….the king is often ‘forgotten’ by the people who only focus on certain officials who are responsible at certain district or bureau(they want to gain the official’s favours). And some officials, when gaining a lot of ‘followers’ decide to go on a mutiny against the king. Of course, there are others, outside that rebel against the king’s administration. At the end…..it’s expected that the king would ‘punish’ people who rebel and reject him, and people who admit themselves better than the king.

I can find no other better way except to say this analogous story to explain why the association of God with heaven and hell…..and to explain why the choosing to side his loyal subjects against people who rebel and reject against him, it’s an understandable thing, don’t you think?.

I can’t see the middle thing…..it’s either you are in or you are out. You can’t choose to reject the king, yet expect the king to extend his protection and awards on you, nor punish you. I also don’t see the king being pleased with the fact that the subject making him share status with another king, usually the fake one.

Again I say, it’s understable(for me) as to why some people decide that God doesn’t exist or why some people think all gods are one, etc………however one must bear in mind, that what you decide to do you must bear the consequences at the end. Of course, while you live, you can choose to change your mind over certain things…..but after you die, after seeing God in spirit…...you really are not allowed to change your mind.

[Bleu]

I did say ‘To some extent, I would agree’……didn’t I? However if you say that people are more scared of facing human persecution/punishment…..hence they don’t commit crimes, it’s not completely true.

Most crimes like burglary, murder, rape, arson are not done in open daylight for public scrutiny. They are committed by people who think they can get away with it, people who think nobody would be able to indict them with the crimes, including God…..which might to some people think that (a) He never existed to witness the crime commited. (b) He approves them(priests, prophets, monks(we are talking about Western monk churches) imams) of the crimes committed; eg adultery, pornographies, murder, taking stuffs from other because it’s their rights or easily forgives them once they confess their crime or pay tributes to them in the form of donation, a building of worship, getting yourself pierced and help transport ‘god’ to it’s temples, helping the poor, fasting for a day, week, month..
The first group of people who commit the crime, group a are usually mainly those disbelievers(of certain true god/ of god’s existence) while the group b are the believersof a god’s existence and of certain religion who still commit the crime.

It’s just not the hard-core crimes that I believe or ‘want it to happen’…..that God should punish…..stuffs like betrayal, spreading lies about a certain person, backstabbing, disrespectful to people especially to your parents, inconsiderate over others, taking advantages of others in the name of ‘right to do this/that’…….I think these people need to be punished, don’t you think? Most of the stuffs I mentioned are not covered up by laws…..it’s considered to be a common thing in the society nowadays.

According to the Bible, Jesus Christ was God who came down to earth as a man. Most of his 13 disciples, except for Judas and John died martyr death after Jesus Christ, while sharing the Gospel about Jesus Christ. They really went out for their best friend, to the point of sacrificing their lives.

Jesus Christ, after his death and resurrection said to his disciples, ‘because you had to see my body, living, resurrected and I had to give you miracles, to prove that I’m he…..the people who do not see, yet believe….they are blessed.’ In another words, in my words …….he told his disciples that they are useless babies that needed him to show himself, perform miracles in front of them, so that they can believe.

Consider this ‘believe despite not see’ then as ‘faith’ for the people to come…..the future generations.

Why Jesus Christ had to come down to earth as a man, like what Soranushi said, it’s impossible to see God unless you are in a different dimension, that is God’s dimension. So, it’s possible then, that if God wishes to meet people and show that He exist, without them, the people dying….the next best move is to come down to earth as a human.

Why then God wanted to come down as Jesus Christ is another different matter altogether……I don’t wish to indulge further than that….sensitivity.


Actually most arson cases take place in broad daylight.

No i dont agree, because lying (you can be sued for ruining another persons reputation, i forgot the term) and backstabbing is something that ALL humans do, EVEN christians. No, im not saying its right, but its something everyone does. I dont know a single christian or a person of any other faith who hasnt sinned against their god. If devot christians do this sort of thing, then i highly doubt they think they can get away with it. To me god doesnt exist, therefor, he cannot punish me. but the law CAN. And the law is important.

for example, say your out driving and the speed limit is 10. Nothing in the bible says you cant go faster, but you dont. Why? because its the law. if you break the speed limit you will be fined or even put in jail. Your religion has nothing to do with it, all thats in your way is whether or not you want to be prosecuted for your fines. Going into court and saying "It's not in the bible" wont fly.

--

I honestly don't care what the bible says, its just pages in a book that have no meaning to my life because there is NO power behind it that influences my actions. If Jesus says that his disiples are "useless babies" then im going to give him one giant slap in the face if i die an find out that God & Jesus do exist. (which i highly doubt). Seeing is believing. And NOTHING is going to change my mind about that. I cant see god, i cant see jesus, therefor, they do not exist and can not be scientifically proven that they do exist. I will say what i said again, if i die and i find out that he is real, then i wont regret not believing in him because i lived my life happily and the way i wanted to. and please do not retort to this paragraph, there is nothing to discuss.

[manfan]

Iie.....I don't really mind whatever you think or say Bleu in regards to Bible, or Jesus. I don't get angry. There's one thing I realized......if that 'God' that one worship cannot do anything in response to whatever 'bombastic attacks by the enemies, whether devils, 'gods' or humans.....is helpless.....it's no point of worshipping 'Him', don't you think?

Saaa.....I don't get angry and rurly that easily.....when it comes to Him, or when I'm attacked because of my specific faith. I don't intend to be defensive or hostile in this area. It's usually the Christians pastors or priests or bishops, ministers, deacons,....people who are 'appointed' because of their ferventness(notice....the word is ferventness....it's almost similar to religious, but I rather use that word).....who show their ferventness in their speech, their actions....but behind the doors are no better than the ones that they condemned.

However, it's true as you said.....everybody has sinned, either to god or to the other people. That's why I've to learn.....that nobody is perfect, even the church leaders....therefore, I should try not to be that judgemental, and instead must look at my own shortcomings.

As for Jesus saying his own disciples as 'useless babies'.....it's my own words....it's how I would interprete it. After seeing Jesus performing miracles and miracles again, before his death, feeding thousands of people, healing sick and handicapped people and raising the death......it's expected that the disciples were to have faith in what Jesus said and could do. They did not really believe in him being raised up to death....hence Jesus kinda said that the other people who in the future had not seen him, yet believe in him are much better.

Please don't get easily misunderstood again.

Believing or not believing that God exist.....or which God it is.....is really your own prerogative. Just like choosing your fan pairing and believing it to be canon, is also your own prerogative. ^____^

[Bleu]

Yarr i see i see,

it is indeed all based on opinion and personal preferneces, which is why i believe this topic is almost impossible to debate.

[speedphantom]

Well thats quite right:p

Its like saying do you like red or blue better. Doesn't mean anything in the end.

[Jenny]

The answer we should be giving when posed with the question 'Does God exist' is pose another question:

Do we see God?
Do we feel God?
Do we taste God?
Do we have scientific evidence of his existence?


What about when we are posed with the question “Does your mind exist?”?

Do we see your mind?
Do we feel your mind?
Do we taste your mind?
Do we have scientific evidence of the existence of your mind?

Please understand that these questions were not meant as an attack towards you as a person. The reason I put “your” in instead of “our”, was to point out how impossible it is for us to prove to others that we have minds, by using only those criteria. I cannot see your mind, nor can I feel or taste it, but I do not think that it would be reasonable of me to draw the conclusion that you simply do not possess one, merely because the answers received for those questions turned out to be negative. Despite their invisible natures, I am certain that we all have minds (even if we are out of them sometimes), and this I can tell from our acts and our works.

Another example, which was first brought up by CooWings, is how the wind cannot be seen either, yet we can feel it and we can see the traces of its presence. I cannot prove to anyone else that God exists but through my personal relationsip with Him, I have all the proof I could ever ask for to be confident that He does exist. To make a comparison to the wind: in my heart I can feel God and His love for me and everyone else, and although I am not able to see Him with my eyes, I can see the results of His work in my life.

[Bleu]

hasnt it been pretty much scientifically proven that we do, in fact, have minds?

Parts of the brain control certain feelings and emotions. And i taste my mind, pretty much all the time. xD You can't see another persons mind just like you cannot feel another persons wind.

Im getting into neuroscience, actually, for the sole purpose of understanding the mind to its full potential, but.. it is an unfair comparison, since the mind does indeed have to do with the brain, an object we can see..well after a little skull cutting, but, it is in fact there.

We can also scientifically prove why the wind is there by disecting the hydrogen and other elements in the air, and study the molecular patterns.. in which we are able to find out the real reasons why the molecules in the air act the way they do.

So to me, if you can't prove with science that god is there..then he isnt. I lack any feelings in my heart to say that he does exist, yet, i can still feel the wind and tell you that its there. While, for god, i cannot.

[Soranushi]

Well thats the point of faith believing in something you cannot see with your own eyes and besides I believe as long as your a good person when you die you go to heaven or get reincarnated and I think she's talking about Souls even though she was talking about our Minds and just like Manfan said the disciples just like us had to see Jesus to believe he was resurrected why because thats how we are it our nature

this was off topic wasn't it

[ZarakiKenpachi]

i think he is an idea made real in the hearts of the faithful in the past to explane all the things no one understood back then so it wasent so scary

do i believe he exists

in some ways yes
in some ways no

i cant really explane my idea any more

[speedphantom]

Just one thing I don't like about religions. Its all about faith without evidence. There's even faith in the evidence since you don't know if its real or not. Too contentious.

[manfan]

When you charge a person for a crime, for instance a murder.....you can't really expect the person to perform the same thing as to prove that he is the murderer or not the murderer. Instead, you look at other means to implicate the person, for instance, murder weapons, thumbprints, DNA, witnesses, the trails, etc.

The same way with God.....sure you are not able to comprehend him in your five human senses....but there are ways to prove his existence, don't you think? Using the trails / footprints that He left behind....surely you would be able to know the difference between what is left by God and what is left by men, don't you think?:)

There's even faith in the evidence since you don't know if its real or not. Too contentious.
For this, you need knowledge, very high level of knowledge to prove that it's possible or impossible by human standard(but possible by God standard).

Don't worry, there are so many universities around the world....they should be able to produce people from both sides....for that God, or against that God. If these evidences are brought by them to prove a point....whether for God, or against God....there would be other people who would be able to refute it don't you think? Unless it's irrefutable.

But then, it's still up to you, to decide whether it's real or just a myth....that God.;)

[Ninira]

The same way with God.....sure you are not able to comprehend him in your five human senses....but there are ways to prove his existence, don't you think? Using the trails / footprints that He left behind....surely you would be able to know the difference between what is left by God and what is left by men, don't you think?

Your analogy falls short here. We can observe DNA, touch weapons, experience the evidence of a crime with our five senses. If the police prosecuted someone based on sheer 'faith' or assuming that certain 'trails' led to him, it would never hold up in court. Why? Because people need evidence to prove something.

If there was concrete proof of thisorthat being caused by God, we wouldn't even have this debate right now. The point is, nothing can be proved to be explicitly God's work, and with no proof of his existence, I do not believe he exists. Why do I not see that thisorthat is made by God? Because nothing strikes me as something that would need the special help of a divine being to be created.

[negativzero]

Ok, now it has come to my attention that this thread and the other one in the debate section have become religion bashing threads, now I seriously don't want to close them, but if people still continue to act like dickwads and criticize other people's beliefs, or for believers, to try and shove belief down another person's throat, I'm gonna close BOTH threads. I won't be opening them again, and don't even think of creating a new thread cus I'm jus gonna ban you.
If people in here are not socially responsible and mature enough to hold a neutral state of mind when going into a debate, just get the hell out of here and don't come back. Learn to debate properly, and try not to make a fool of yourself or others, cus you're just being an idiot anyway.