Nnoitra FC [v4]: Pray for the Mantis

[Minerva]

http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/nnoitrafc-v4.png
This fanclub is for fans of Nnoitra. If you like this character, please join!

Welcome to version 4: "Pray for the Mantis". Lineart for our banner this version is by Kubo-sensei.

Owner: Minerva

Members (07):


Angel26278
Colossus
keitoz [member questionnaire (http://bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?113-Nnoitra-FC-v4-Pray-for-the-Mantis&p=16478&viewfull=1#post16478)]
Minerva [member questionnaire (http://bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?113-Nnoitra-FC-v4-Pray-for-the-Mantis&p=16519&viewfull=1#post16519)]
tanjienio
Tori
WhiteChocolate



Members list was lost due to February 2013 forum hacking. Please rejoin.

New member questions:
Feel free to pick and choose!

Why do you like Nnoitra?

What question(s) would you most like Kubo to answer about him?

What's your favourite panels or chapters with him?

Is there a song you consider "his" song?

Favourite fanart of him?

Favourite fanfic about him?

Anything else you'd like to share?

Character stats:

Official bio from Shounen Jump


http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/jump-chara-nnoitra.png


ノイトラ・ジルガ
Nnoitra Gilga

誕生日/11月11日
身長/215cm 体重/93kg
斬魄刀/聖哭螳蜋（サンタテレサ）
Birthday/November 11
Height/215cm Weight/93kg
Zanpakutou/Santa Teresa

第5十刃(クイント・エスパーダ)。司る死の形：絶望。エスパーダ最強を自負し、強い者を倒すことに執着し ている。
Espada #5 (Quinto Espada). Form of death governed: Despair. He is proud of being the strongest Espada, and obsessed with defeating those who are strong.

Appearance


http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/ch-261.png

Nnoitra's distinguishing features are the halo-like collar on his uniform jacket and his oversize zanpakutou in the shape of two connected crescents. He is also one of the tallest characters in Bleach. His Hollow hole is through his left eye socket; he customarily covers it with a white eyepatch. His mask fragment consists of upper and lower jawbones surrounding his Hollow hole and across his forehead, and bears a striking similarity to Ouetsu Nimaya's Asauchi designs. His rank of 5 is marked on his tongue.

Zanpakutou

Release command: Inore ("pray"), Santa Teresa

祈れ (inore)
祈 (inoru): to pray, to wish, to hope

聖哭螳蜋 (サンタテレサ): “Santa Teresa” [kanji: "holy wailing mantis"]
聖 (sei): holy, sacred, saint, pure
哭 (naku): to cry, to weep, to lament, to wail, to sob, to howl

Note: Irregular kanji usage. "To cry" is normally written as "泣" (naku). "哭" is almost exclusively used in the context of the wailing of a restless ghost (like that of a banshee). It is described as being an animal-like howl when made by a human; see: Ginjou stealing Ichigo's powers, and the ensuing sound Ichigo produces over his powerlessness. For comparison, the same sound when made by an actual animal is written as "啼く" (naku).

螳 (tou): mantis
蜋 (ryo): mantis, dragonfly, dung beetle

Note: The last two kanji can be read together as "praying mantis", but it is an irregular kanji usage. "Praying mantis" is normally written in Japanese as "螳螂" ("kamakiri": lit. "scythe-cut" in reference to the scythe-like forearms of the mantis which resemble the blades used for harvesting grains). "螳蜋" ("tángláng") is however a valid combination in Simplified Chinese, almost exclusively used in reference to the Praying Mantis styles of martial arts.


Fraccíon


http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/ch-263.png

Tesra Lindocruz, who is unquestionably loyal to and protective of Nnoitra.

Current status

Nnoitra's whereabouts are unknown at this time ...

Omake:

Chapter 312: Nnoitra's defeat, in which his powers crumble like Ichigo's in the ch 422 omake.
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/omake-312.png

Chapter 313: "the end is near". Written in English. This is what we say when someone is dying (in this case, Nnoitra).
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/omake-313.png

Chapter 314: "the end is far". Written in English.
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/omake-314.png

In addition, there is also this Key as the chapter 313 cover:
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/ch-313-cover.png
What occurs in 313? The last of Nnoitra's backstory, plus Aizen talking about creating the Ouken after the FKT battles. This Key may pertain to either. However, the ch 313 & ch 314 omake together show a double door opening wide. Doors usually require a key to open furthermore, and Aizen does not possess the Ouken to open the Royal Realm. These omake and this chapter cover are then not for Aizen.

We do not at this time know what door is shown in these omake.


Masked interview (Kubo, circa 2010):

http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/masked-kubo-nnoitra.png

3 week break omake (Kubo's editor, circa January 2012):

http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/3weekbreak-omake.jpg


☆ は微小。真実は果たして。。。！？
☆ A minute chance. Is it really true …!?

Note that several Espada have no chance of appearing, in said editor's view.


Volume cover, poem, name-page:

Volume cover:
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/vol33cover.png

Volume 33 poem:
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/vol33poem.png

俺達は虫
We are insects

不揮発性の
悪意の下で
這い回る蠕虫
Nonvolatile
Lowly evil
Crawling worms

首をもたげる
月より高く
We lift our heads
Higher than the moon

憐れなお前等が
見えなこなるまで
Your pity
Can no longer be seen


Nnoitra's name-page:
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/ch287cover.png


Manga:

Appearances:

ch229 (Howling Tempest): birth of Wonderweiss
ch244 (Born From the Fear): Espada meeting
ch245 (The Way Without Enemies): Espada meeting
ch249 (Back To The Innocent): conversation with Ulquiorra
ch261 (Left Arm of the Devil): Nnoitra vs Chad
ch262 (Unblendable): Nnoitra vs Chad
ch263 (Unexpected): Nnoitra and Tesra vs Chad
ch286 (Tooth and Nail/Guillotine You Standing): Grimmjow's botched execution
ch287 (Don't Forget Till You Die): Nnoitra vs Ichigo
ch288 (The Bad Joke): Nnoitra vs Ichigo
ch289 (The Scar Mask): Nnoitra vs Ichigo
ch290 (The Broken Mask): Nnoitra vs Ichigo
ch291 (Thank You For Defend Me): Nnoitra vs Nelliel
ch292 (Rupture My Replica): Nnoitra vs Nelliel
ch293 (Urge For Unite): Nnoitra vs Nelliel
ch294 (If You Call Me Beast, Kill You Like Tempest): Nnoitra vs Neliel, flashback
ch295 (The Last Mission): flashback, Nnoitra vs Nelliel
ch296 (Change Again and Again): Nnoitra vs Nelliel
ch297 (King of the Kill): Tesra vs Ichigo
ch298 (Intruder 3): Tesra's defeat, Nnoitra vs Zaraki
ch299 (The Verbal Warfare): Nnoitra vs Zaraki
ch304 (The Battle of the Barbarians): Nnoitra vs Zaraki
ch306 (Not Perfect Is Good): Nnoitra vs Zaraki
ch307 (Bite It, Slash It): Nnoitra vs Zaraki
ch308 (Satan From Orbit): Nnoitra vs Zaraki
ch309 (Pray for the Mantis): Nnoitra vs Zaraki, Nnoitra's release
ch310 (Four Arms to Killing You): Nnoitra vs Zaraki
ch311 (The Undead 4): Nnoitra vs Zaraki
ch312 (Fervourous-Ferocious/Higher Than the Moon): Nnoitra vs Zaraki, flashback, Nnoitra's defeat
ch313 (To Close Your World): Tesra's flashback


Mentions:

ch254 (Leave the Chocolate Here): Dordonii's flashback
ch262 (Unblendable): Ulquiorra tells Orihime about Nnoitra and Chad battling
ch356 (Tyrant of Skulls): Espada aspects of death
ch375 (Execution Extinction): Starrk's flashback
ch379 (Falta de Armonia): Ichigo mentions defeating Nnoitra
ch525 (Edges): Unohana-taicho musing on Zaraki barely defeating Nnoitra.


Colourspreads:

Chapter 255 colourspread:
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/ch255spread.png

Chapter 270 colourspread:
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/ch270spread.png

Best Bouts Poll spread (10th place):
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/bestbout2010.png

Hell Chapter colourspread:
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/colourspread-hellchapter.png


Anime:

Appearances:

Episode 138: Birth of Wonderweiss
Episode 145: Espada meeting
Episode 150: conversation with Ulquiorra
Episode 158: Nnoitra vs Chad
Episode 159: Nnoitra and Tesra vs Chad
Episode 161: reactions to Aaroniero's death
Episode 190: Nnoitra cuts down Grimmjow, Nnoitra vs Ichigo
Episode 191: Nnoitra vs Ichigo
Episode 192: Nnoitra vs Ichigo, Nnoitra vs Nelliel
Episode 193: Nnoitra vs Nelliel
Episode 194: Nnoitra vs Nelliel, flashback
Episode 195: Nnoitra vs Nelliel, Tesra vs Ichigo
Episode 196: Nnoitra vs Zaraki
Episode 197: Nnoitra vs Zaraki
Episode 199: Nnoitra vs Zaraki
Episode 200: Nnoitra vs Zaraki -- Santa Teresa episode number intro.
Episode 201: Nnoitra vs Zaraki, Nnoitra's release
Episode 202: Nnoitra vs Zaraki, flashback, Nnoitra's defeat
Episode 203: Tesra's flashback




===> Official art and card scans (http://tesnnoi.lunarshadows.net/fanservice/nnoitra-only) <===

Fandom goodies:
Essays

Prey for the Mantis (http://tesnnoi.lunarshadows.net/prey-for-the-mantis)
To Devour Your Heart (http://tesnnoi.lunarshadows.net/to-devour-your-heart)
To No Longer See Your Pity (http://tesnnoi.lunarshadows.net/to-no-longer-see-your-pity)


Fanarts:

on DeviantArt (http://tealmermaid.deviantart.com/favourites/41167820)

[keitoz]

YES. I will join.
And for my first fanart contribution!
http://24.media.tumblr.com/fe5af5378831268e3f245800947e0ba5/tumblr_mjdlwgd6F11s80ot4o1_500.jpg
By サワ (http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=1679812)

[Minerva]

Welcome, keitoz! :glomp Glad someone else joined. Why do you like Nnoitra?

Cool fanart! :wha

[keitoz]

Welcome, keitoz! :glomp Glad someone else joined. Why do you like Nnoitra?

Cool fanart! :wha

At first I didn't like him; you know, judging by the book.
But when we got to his flashback, or really at the beginning of his fight with Kenpachi, I began to understand him.

He's the Espada of Despair, too. I can't really explain it.
Unlike Ulquiorra though, he's kind of like an open book. He expresses himself. He's very passionate and I dunno. I guess I'm attracted to these kinds of characters (I also like Szayel)?

And I am just in LOVE with his hair in the flashback. How it curls slightly in the ends...~

[Minerva]

At first I didn't like him; you know, judging by the book.
But when we got to his flashback, or really at the beginning of his fight with Kenpachi, I began to understand him.

He's the Espada of Despair, too. I can't really explain it.
Unlike Ulquiorra though, he's kind of like an open book. He expresses himself. He's very passionate and I dunno. I guess I'm attracted to these kinds of characters (I also like Szayel)?
Yes. If Nnoitra wants to express something, it comes out in the end. He's a bundle of emotional nerve endings waiting for a place to happen. We normally think of Hollows as being heartless and emotionless, but really, I think it's just that most of them won't allow their emotions to show. As Ulquiorra had said, emotions cause pain for humans. Most Hollows would rather set aside their emotions because that is what got them in this mess in the first place. In Nnoitra's case though, it is like his poem, that he remembers there's something better than the state he is currently in and that is why he is so miserable in HM. He won't allow himself to forget what he lost. He may try to drown his sorrow in battle but he still remembers that it wasn't always like this for him.

Compare that to someone like Szayelaporro who enjoys being Hollow and enjoys that detachment from everyone around him, and we can see why Nnoitra said he and Szayelaporro were nothing alike. Their basic ideology is radically different. One prides himself on being alone in his perfection and the other can't bear to be alone like this.

Oh! What I wanted to say in the chapter thread but was sure someone would point and laugh: it rains when our new Hollow friend appears. With Kubo using rain as a metaphor for despair, do you think there might be some connection between this new Hollow and Nnoitra? He in no way resembles Nnoitra, but if Aizen is already experimenting in HM, how many despairing Hollows does he have at his disposal?


And I am just in LOVE with his hair in the flashback. How it curls slightly in the ends...~
I love the little flips in his old hairstyle too. It reminds me of Rukia's previous hairstyle for some reason. So cute.

[keitoz]

Yes. If Nnoitra wants to express something, it comes out in the end. He's a bundle of emotional nerve endings waiting for a place to happen. We normally think of Hollows as being heartless and emotionless, but really, I think it's just that most of them won't allow their emotions to show. As Ulquiorra had said, emotions cause pain for humans. Most Hollows would rather set aside their emotions because that is what got them in this mess in the first place. In Nnoitra's case though, it is like his poem, that he remembers there's something better than the state he is currently in and that is why he is so miserable in HM. He won't allow himself to forget what he lost. He may try to drown his sorrow in battle but he still remembers that it wasn't always like this for him.

Compare that to someone like Szayelaporro who enjoys being Hollow and enjoys that detachment from everyone around him, and we can see why Nnoitra said he and Szayelaporro were nothing alike. Their basic ideology is radically different. One prides himself on being alone in his perfection and the other can't bear to be alone like this.

Oh! What I wanted to say in the chapter thread but was sure someone would point and laugh: it rains when our new Hollow friend appears. With Kubo using rain as a metaphor for despair, do you think there might be some connection between this new Hollow and Nnoitra? He in no way resembles Nnoitra, but if Aizen is already experimenting in HM, how many despairing Hollows does he have at his disposal?


I love the little flips in his old hairstyle too. It reminds me of Rukia's previous hairstyle for some reason. So cute.

UGH! I am soooo fangirl over his younger self. Gah! I just-- zzz. All the feels...

Haha I think the flashback may answer that question in time. Hmm... but I don't think Nnoitra was Arrancarized just yet?
I have no idea. We know absolutely nothing about the new Hollow except that he kind of resembles Hollow!Ichigo.

Nnoitra was the perfect aspect of Despair. You would think "emo", but no... Gosh no. Nnoitra was just perfect. Kubo did well.
I hope he's alive (and his Tesra too)... you know, for the sake of plot depth at least. Like he could be stuck with Tia. Who knows all the Arrancars they have captured? There's only so many knowing the "Hollow Level Tree". And Nnoitra IS tied to Nel who is still alive... He could be the trigger/excuse to her adult form again because I just can't see Nel staying like a child forever. Not with her popularity.

[Minerva]

Haha I think the flashback may answer that question in time. Hmm... but I don't think Nnoitra was Arrancarized just yet?
Depends on the timeline. Nnoitra is one of the older Arrancars; he was in Las Noches already during the time Baraggan ruled HM. Remember, he made that comment about how he no longer needed to be respectful to Szayelaporro once he was no longer an Espada. He was #8 when Szayelaporro was Cero. I guess the question is, was everyone under Baraggan's rule a Hollow -- or did some manage to Arrancarize themselves already? We could make the argument that Baraggan with his axe was an Arrancar who preferred that form instead of a human form; we do not see Hollows wielding a separate weapon normally -- or wearing clothes.

We also have three other figures on the dais with Baraggan who are also wearing clothes:
http://i37.mangapanda.com/bleach/371/bleach-2401653.jpg
The page with the ewer, the tall figure with the white cape (my crack theory is this is Nnoitra since it looks like the collar of his uniform), and a third figure with a heavy cape. Two of Baraggan's Espada, perhaps? So I believe there were some Arrancar under Baraggan already before Aizen arrived.

Hopefully we'll get an answer since Isshin definitely knows about the "mock-Arrancar" that were in HM a while back. I would like to see that information included in this flashback.


I have no idea. We know absolutely nothing about the new Hollow except that he kind of resembles Hollow!Ichigo.
We do know about the rain falling when he appears -- and Kubo has been hammering that symbolism in since we found out about how Masaki supposedly died. I would like to think there's some connection there, that there's a reason Nnoitra got Despair instead of one of the other Aspects. It's not like Kubo has expounded at great length about Old Age or Madness in the manga.


Nnoitra was the perfect aspect of Despair. You would think "emo", but no... Gosh no. Nnoitra was just perfect. Kubo did well.
I hope he's alive (and his Tesra too)... you know, for the sake of plot depth at least. Like he could be stuck with Tia. Who knows all the Arrancars they have captured? There's only so many knowing the "Hollow Level Tree". And Nnoitra IS tied to Nel who is still alive... He could be the trigger/excuse to her adult form again because I just can't see Nel staying like a child forever. Not with her popularity.
You don't think Nnoitra is a bit emo with his hair over one eye? :XD He's like Kira in that respect, and there is that in-manga character comment about Kira being emo from his FKT battle. Nnoitra is cuter though.

I hope he's still alive too. I mean, if Kubo can confirm Gin dead, I would think he would have said something to confirm Nnoitra by this point if that were the case. He seems to dodge on certain characters, especially those he likes. He still hasn't explained what happened to Nnoitra's zanpakutou that it changed; that may be relevant considering Harribel's girls managed to get a power-up as Arrancars. If they did much the same feat as Nnoitra, it should be explained in-story even if the cause of their power-up is obvious.

I would make a correction though about being tied to Nel. Much like the situations of Ichigo fighting Grand Fisher and Byakuya, Nnoitra had to fight to work out his issue with Nelliel, and that issue is IMO related to Zaraki holding himself back in hopes of fighting Unohana again one day. Once his battle with Nelliel ended, he like Zaraki could finally move forward for a higher calling in battle. Zaraki finally communicates with his zanpakutou as a true Shinigami, and Nnoitra ... well, we don't know. :XD He was supposed to figure out why he should be fighting. I doubt Kubo dropped the thread entirely, he never does. He will pick it up at the proper time. It probably would have ruined something to show at that point where Nnoitra's heart is; not yet enough build-up or general humanizing of the Arrancar species. We didn't really get that information for any Arrancar until Ulquiorra turned to ash forty chapters later.

Also for Nel's part, the one for whom she regained adult form last time was Ichigo -- with intent to kill Nnoitra for hurting Ichigo. It is Ichigo who gives her the impetus to wield her old powers for a short time; it is for him that she (temporarily) regained her heart and will to protect. She is happier not fighting, according to her brothers, but would certainly run to Ichigo's rescue if needed. In Kubo's pattern though, Nnoitra would probably never fight Ichigo again, so there's no reason for Nel to need her old powers to fight Nnoitra again.

[keitoz]

Depends on the timeline. Nnoitra is one of the older Arrancars; he was in Las Noches already during the time Baraggan ruled HM. Remember, he made that comment about how he no longer needed to be respectful to Szayelaporro once he was no longer an Espada. He was #8 when Szayelaporro was Cero. I guess the question is, was everyone under Baraggan's rule a Hollow -- or did some manage to Arrancarize themselves already? We could make the argument that Baraggan with his axe was an Arrancar who preferred that form instead of a human form; we do not see Hollows wielding a separate weapon normally -- or wearing clothes.

We also have three other figures on the dais with Baraggan who are also wearing clothes:
http://i37.mangapanda.com/bleach/371/bleach-2401653.jpg
The page with the ewer, the tall figure with the white cape (my crack theory is this is Nnoitra since it looks like the collar of his uniform), and a third figure with a heavy cape. Two of Baraggan's Espada, perhaps? So I believe there were some Arrancar under Baraggan already before Aizen arrived.

Hopefully we'll get an answer since Isshin definitely knows about the "mock-Arrancar" that were in HM a while back. I would like to see that information included in this flashback.


We do know about the rain falling when he appears -- and Kubo has been hammering that symbolism in since we found out about how Masaki supposedly died. I would like to think there's some connection there, that there's a reason Nnoitra got Despair instead of one of the other Aspects. It's not like Kubo has expounded at great length about Old Age or Madness in the manga.


You don't think Nnoitra is a bit emo with his hair over one eye? :XD He's like Kira in that respect, and there is that in-manga character comment about Kira being emo from his FKT battle. Nnoitra is cuter though.

I hope he's still alive too. I mean, if Kubo can confirm Gin dead, I would think he would have said something to confirm Nnoitra by this point if that were the case. He seems to dodge on certain characters, especially those he likes. He still hasn't explained what happened to Nnoitra's zanpakutou that it changed; that may be relevant considering Harribel's girls managed to get a power-up as Arrancars. If they did much the same feat as Nnoitra, it should be explained in-story even if the cause of their power-up is obvious.

I would make a correction though about being tied to Nel. Much like the situations of Ichigo fighting Grand Fisher and Byakuya, Nnoitra had to fight to work out his issue with Nelliel, and that issue is IMO related to Zaraki holding himself back in hopes of fighting Unohana again one day. Once his battle with Nelliel ended, he like Zaraki could finally move forward for a higher calling in battle. Zaraki finally communicates with his zanpakutou as a true Shinigami, and Nnoitra ... well, we don't know. :XD He was supposed to figure out why he should be fighting. I doubt Kubo dropped the thread entirely, he never does. He will pick it up at the proper time. It probably would have ruined something to show at that point where Nnoitra's heart is; not yet enough build-up or general humanizing of the Arrancar species. We didn't really get that information for any Arrancar until Ulquiorra turned to ash forty chapters later.

Also for Nel's part, the one for whom she regained adult form last time was Ichigo -- with intent to kill Nnoitra for hurting Ichigo. It is Ichigo who gives her the impetus to wield her old powers for a short time; it is for him that she (temporarily) regained her heart and will to protect. She is happier not fighting, according to her brothers, but would certainly run to Ichigo's rescue if needed. In Kubo's pattern though, Nnoitra would probably never fight Ichigo again, so there's no reason for Nel to need her old powers to fight Nnoitra again.

Oh my bad. For some reason I automatically thought Nnoitra would be threatening enough to Urahara and Co. that Nel would be triggered, but I should know better that he might not do that lol. But then with Grimmjow there he might be a little pissed...
So if it's the intent to protect that triggers her transformation, then it's not only Nnoitra that can do it. Maybe someone could be threatening Dondochakka enough when she finds him that she finds her killing intent.

Well I love Nel either way; kid or not a kid. So I don't mind.
It's just that I KNOW Kubo isn't going to keep her a child. He's going to find some weird loophole, I swear.

And nope! Never once thought Nnoitra was the emo-type. Hell, MY bangs cover my eyes sometimes and I'm not emo... Well at least not the stereotype of it? XD

Wow I do see those three, clad figures! They do look human-sized/humanoid. Ah, but Nnoitra? Hmm. That could explain how he met Tesra.
And I feel like Barragan is just a special case with his form and being able to choose it. Kubo just being creative I guess. He likes dem skulls.

[Minerva]

Oh my bad. For some reason I automatically thought Nnoitra would be threatening enough to Urahara and Co. that Nel would be triggered, but I should know better that he might not do that lol. But then with Grimmjow there he might be a little pissed...
So if it's the intent to protect that triggers her transformation, then it's not only Nnoitra that can do it. Maybe someone could be threatening Dondochakka enough when she finds him that she finds her killing intent.
Nah. If Nnoitra is still alive, he will have changed enough to not be randomly attacking everyone he meets. That is one of the criteria for his survival as I see it. If he hasn't changed, he would still be an antagonist and we know antagonists get killed off left and right. Gin is truly dead despite his love for Rangiku because really, Gin went about things the wrong way.

Nnoitra seems to have met all the requirements for a conversion experience, so he has the potential to "turn" properly -- not to mention most Arrancar we see after this point will be sympathetic and firmly on the protagonist side. He probably wouldn't be too happy to see Grimmjow alive, but he would (probably) behave himself in favour of dealing with the larger issue.

There was something in the novels about Mayuri figuring out what triggered Nel's changes; it probably comes down to intent or heart or whatever you want to call it. Everything in Bleach comes down to "the heart". :XD In that case, yes, it wasn't Nnoitra per se triggering the change (she was cowering behind a rock from the time Nnoitra appeared), it was her desire to protect Ichigo overriding her fear of Nnoitra. If she had been conscious while Tesra was busy shredding Ichigo, she probably would have changed again at that point to resume protecting Ichigo. She is a knight, after all. All knight-protectors need someone to protect. I hope she doesn't get herself killed trying to protect Ichigo from someone she can't handle.


And nope! Never once thought Nnoitra was the emo-type. Hell, MY bangs cover my eyes sometimes and I'm not emo... Well at least not the stereotype of it? XD
I figured if he was a human now, he would be the kid in the corner of the library writing gloomy poetry and getting picked on. :XD He's not exactly the most cheerful person, but certainly some of that is an artefact of being trapped in HM. Maybe he is a happier person when he has what he lost? "Over the moon" and all, similar to his tagline.


Wow I do see those three, clad figures! They do look human-sized/humanoid. Ah, but Nnoitra? Hmm. That could explain how he met Tesra..
I find it funny that we don't know when/how he met Tesra. We have that information for the other Espada who have Fraccion. I wonder if Tesra was already with him under Baraggan's rule, or was it not until later? I can't tell from Aizen's numbering system. Tesra is only a few numbers older than Harribel's girls, and Harribel is one of the (relative) newcomers. I want a real timeline for HM, is it obvious? :XD

I really wonder if that is Nnoitra in the white cape. I wouldn't have thought of it when that chapter was released, but knowing now that the Espada already existed at that point, it's possible. Typical court: ruler/royal family seated on the dais, advisors standing nearby, common courtiers on the lower level. Baraggan's Espada would certainly be above those Hollows bowing on the lower level, and we know Nnoitra was already an Espada around that time.


And I feel like Barragan is just a special case with his form and being able to choose it. Kubo just being creative I guess. He likes dem skulls
That still doesn't explain Baraggan's axe, though. Hollows don't carry weapons. We have a lot of Hollows who don't have a real weapon besides their actual claws, etc., and now our new Hollow friend has his "attached" blades like Ichigo and Aizen ended up with. That is why I think Baraggan is probably already an Arrancar at that point, because we have seen Arrancar releases with separate weapons like Nnoitra's scythes.

That might have some interesting implications if the Espada were those who were Arrancar and therefore "better" than the Hollows who were un-Arrancarized. Kind of like that Menos Forest filler where the lower Hollows were impressed by Nel's being an Arrancar. I wonder if that might be part of the criteria for becoming an Espada, like Nelliel mentioned that Nnoitra was still being childish even after becoming an Espada. It means he wasn't one initially. What enabled him to reach that level? Natural Arrancar are supposed to be rare; is that level some kind of "holy grail" of power for Hollows?

[keitoz]

You make great points; it gives me no room for a response! XD

Hmm I think Natural Arrancars are rare, but probably not "holy grail" rare?
And I don't think it's attainable. Maybe one of those innate things? It's all speculation so far...

And yeah i wonder what made Nnoitra "despair". What happened? Gahh...
You would think his flashback would explain it, and I know that Nel being higher/stronger than him was driving him insane, but despair?

[Minerva]

You make great points; it gives me no room for a response! XD
Sorry. :( I'll try not to talk so much next time!


Hmm I think Natural Arrancars are rare, but probably not "holy grail" rare?
And I don't think it's attainable. Maybe one of those innate things? It's all speculation so far...
It's like bankai being rare. :elmo

We do have a little bit about how natural Arrancars are made. Starrk and Lilynette separated themselves apparently, and we saw Ulquiorra's mask break in his backstory. It's probably some sort of light bulb moment that causes their masks to crack because the masks are no longer needed so completely. I would say the remaining fragment is still needed to cover the vital part of that Hollow's instincts and that is why this is what's left.

So many of them have a jawbone section, a connection to that which they "hunger" for. In Nnoitra's case, I think his Hollow form makes it very clear what he is hungry for, yet it is not the same as Szayelaporro's hunger even though they appear similar at first glance. Szayelaporro doesn't want or desire attachments such that he can "fornicate" as it were at will. Nnoitra may effectively be treating all encounters as a potential "mate", but they will die at the end of it; that is basically what he says when he meets Ichigo: I'm only going to remember your name until I manage to kill you. None of them are the one he lost and none of them will be there the next morning, so why would he care about them? What he wants, like Ouestu's asauchi, is someone who will help him reach his full potential. That may be part of the mask-breaking process, that refinement of what that Hollow would need to become human again if that's even possible. It separates the pink champagne Hollows from those who became Hollow from losing someone they couldn't live without. Those with higher ambitions can go higher.

As far as attainability though, it's probably related to why there are so few VL: not all of them are strong enough to reach so high. Aizen had a lot of Hollows Arrancarized, yet only 77 (plus a few Privaron, say) were strong enough to be numbered. How many didn't have enough powers to stash powers in a zanpakutou form? Most of them. It seems to take a certain level of intelligence and strength to achieve Arrancar-hood on one's own; most of them can't do it.


And yeah i wonder what made Nnoitra "despair". What happened? Gahh...
You would think his flashback would explain it, and I know that Nel being higher/stronger than him was driving him insane, but despair?
Initially? Despair over losing what was probably an irreplaceable bond. Most Hollows have the standard hole through the chest; it would not be difficult to find someone to fill that void. Harribel looks for those she can accept as her daughters to fill her void. Szayelaporro takes pleasure in his void and doesn't want it filled.

Nnoitra's loss was the same as having his eye gouged out; no replacement part can truly fill that void in his soul. He needs the return of the exact person he lost, and that is ... almost impossible in HM unless that person felt exactly the same about him and managed to match his evolution without being devoured themselves. And then find Nnoitra again after all that. And not be killed by him when they did manage to find him -- when Nnoitra routinely killed everyone who approached him. It is an almost impossible scenario, but stranger things have happened. Kubo himself said that some bonds cannot be broken. Perhaps this bond he lost is one of that type.

As far as Nelliel, he was probably confused over what he was looking for. It's much like Zaraki fixating on fighting Unohana rather than working toward a special partnership with his zanpakutou; he halted his own potential for growth in his distraction. Nnoitra got too caught up in the idea of fighting Nelliel because he found someone he thought suitable to fight. If she wanted to follow him around, he was going to get some good from it -- or so he thought. His growth halted until he got her out of the way, exactly like we have seen with Zaraki.

We should ask ourselves what kick-started his growth in power. Harribel's girls seem to have gained power because of her; they now bear her lightning insignia. Why did Nnoitra gain power?

[keitoz]

It's like bankai being rare. :elmo
That made me smile. XD
That's not rare at all! D:



Nnoitra's loss was the same as having his eye gouged out; no replacement part can truly fill that void in his soul. He needs the return of the exact person he lost, and that is ... almost impossible in HM unless that person felt exactly the same about him and managed to match his evolution without being devoured themselves. And then find Nnoitra again after all that. And not be killed by him when they did manage to find him -- when Nnoitra routinely killed everyone who approached him. It is an almost impossible scenario, but stranger things have happened. Kubo himself said that some bonds cannot be broken. Perhaps this bond he lost is one of that type.
Are you saying that it is probably a romantic bond?
If it was a bond of friendship... well he would have been "fixed" when he realized what Tesla meant to him...
Ahh Nnoitra... I long to see you being tsundere with someone special~! And some comic relief from his is also welcome =w= (More welcome than Grimmjow comic relief imo).



We should ask ourselves what kick-started his growth in power. Harribel's girls seem to have gained power because of her; they now bear her lightning insignia. Why did Nnoitra gain power?
Hrrm... that's an awfully good question.
One cannot simply say "he killed things" because we all know how well that works.
Wait, doesn't he just have to kill people who are higher ranked than him? Sorry I'm not nearly as educated in Bleach as you to give you a meaningful conversation. OTL

[Minerva]

That made me smile. XD
That's not rare at all! D:
Well ... relatively speaking it probably is rare if there's thousands of Shinigami. Since we really only see upper-level Shinigami, it just doesn't seem rare. It's probably the same with VL and natural Arrancar. How many low-level Arrancar did we see in Las Noches? Not a whole lot. We primarily dealt with the Espada, who are mostly VL.


Are you saying that it is probably a romantic bond?
If it was a bond of friendship... well he would have been "fixed" when he realized what Tesla meant to him...
Ahh Nnoitra... I long to see you being tsundere with someone special~! And some comic relief from his is also welcome =w= (More welcome than Grimmjow comic relief imo).
Not romance per se. That is still Eros, erotic love. What Kubo is intending IMO -- and is doing/has done with other characters, Isshin and Masaki for example -- is Agape, pure love. Judging by what we have seen with the other characters, it's probably something along the lines of soul-mates. Who else could fill such a damaging void for Nnoitra but someone who is in essence the other half of his soul without whom he is incomplete? He is named after Gilgamesh for a reason: Gilgamesh considered Enkidu the soul-mate who was destined to come to him, whom his own mother accepted as her other son (hey, kinda reminds me of Isshin considering Rukia as another daughter ...), and he was utterly lost without Enkidu.

I believe this is what Kubo intended with Nnoitra, except that Kubo is just now starting to really address the soul-mate issue in this arc. We've looked at every other kind of bond already; it is now time for the main attraction in the manga. That said, as we see with the other Espada, their Fraccion are supposed to be a replacement for that which they lost. Yammy lost his dog, Harribel lost her daughters, etc. Tesra is supposed to replace Nnoitra's loss -- except I don't think anyone can replace such a bond except finding that person again. Mere friendship would not be enough; he is not supposed to be Nnoitra's best friend, much like Sasakibe was not intended to be Yamamoto's best friend when he outright said he was honing his new bankai to be Yamamoto's help-mate and do what Yamamoto could not. Was Sasakibe supposed to Yamamoto's soul-mate? Maybe; the "D" word ("destiny") wasn't invoked in their case as it is elsewhere. Like Nnoitra, Yamamoto wanted to destroy the culprit with his own hands when Sasakibe was struck down. The parallels are certainly there.

You asked about romance, though, and I really don't know. I think Kubo is a romantic at heart, and the concept of soul-mates is tied to romance in every manga I have seen it in, but it's also more than mere romance. We tend to think sweets and flowers for romance and its degraded cousin lust, but to say two characters are soul-mates is something beyond that point. Morita-san (Ichigo's seiyuu) had made that comment in at one con about Rukia being part of Ichigo's soul, and that is what we would be dealing with.

Kubo did do that chibi sketch of Nnoitra and Tesra holding pieces of the same heart, but it's probably a moot point unless they have both survived. :XD He is subtle as a kick to the face if he wants to make a point, but there's no real point in something like that for dead characters. Most people will probably forget Yamamoto's bond with Sasakibe in a few more chapters, for example.

To that end, did Kubo not address the nature of Nnoitra's lost bond because he wasn't sure what to do with it, or is it just matter about working the storyline around to the proper time to address it? I don't think such a thing would be out of place for the current storyline. I also don't see a point of hammering down "Nnoitra needs to find a reason to fight" without dealing with "Nnoitra finds a reason, and then what?". It is like Ulquiorra thinking he found where the heart lies ... and now what? Or Starrk realising he is no longer alone ... and now? In these cases Kubo is standing there holding Chekov's gun because frankly, it's a waste of time for characters to have these realizations if we don't see how it changed the characters. Show us what happens when Nnoitra starts choosing only those battles to protect his loved one instead of killing everyone he meets, etc.

I'm not angling for a happy rainbow ending, but a little resolution would go a long way.


Hrrm... that's an awfully good question.
One cannot simply say "he killed things" because we all know how well that works.
Wait, doesn't he just have to kill people who are higher ranked than him? Sorry I'm not nearly as educated in Bleach as you to give you a meaningful conversation. OTL
Yeah, I doubt the power increase was just something (someone?) he devoured. That would amount to basic Hollow evolution. It's slow, it's steady, and if that were it, Kubo would have just said that. Yammy's power increased somewhat just from a huge snack; Szayelaporro's power was restored by devouring his Fraccion. It's really not a big deal. Even taking Nelliel's powers as is implied should not by itself cause that much of a change.

He also shouldn't really able to damage anyone higher ranked (although again, we saw how that worked out in practice).

So if it's not a power gain in the Hollow sense, what's left? If he did this like the protagonists do (train to protect someone) ... then that means he knows on some level why he should be fighting, right?

[WhiteChocolate]

Requesting re-joinage. I was previously recognized as Silver Fang

Long time no see fellow Mantis fans

[keitoz]

Requesting re-joinage. I was previously recognized as Silver Fang

Long time no see fellow Mantis fans

Hello! Early welcome!


To that end, did Kubo not address the nature of Nnoitra's lost bond because he wasn't sure what to do with it, or is it just matter about working the storyline around to the proper time to address it? I don't think such a thing would be out of place for the current storyline. I also don't see a point of hammering down "Nnoitra needs to find a reason to fight" without dealing with "Nnoitra finds a reason, and then what?". It is like Ulquiorra thinking he found where the heart lies ... and now what? Or Starrk realising he is no longer alone ... and now? In these cases Kubo is standing there holding Chekov's gun because frankly, it's a waste of time for characters to have these realizations if we don't see how it changed the characters. Show us what happens when Nnoitra starts choosing only those battles to protect his loved one instead of killing everyone he meets, etc.

When you address Nnoitra, Starrk, and Ulquiorra like that... it made me realize that those are the three Espadas Kubo hasn't officially announced as dead!
Well Starrk has as much news as Nnoitra if I recall...

It WOULD be fitting for him to bring them back to address the issue of... what if Hollows could be 'healed'? They could 'atone'? Not really, but you know what I'm getting at.

The resolution could totally complete Bleach.
Right now I'm thinking "How in the world is he going to complete Bleach?"
Hollows, Shinigami, and Humans are all needed for the 'circle of life'. So obviously the push and pull between all three of them won't stop, so I'm thinking instead that there would be a solution for all the wars. The imbalance of power.
If there were a way to cleanse Hollows like Nnoitra and Ulquiorra without upsetting the balance or causing another war then... that could be one solution?

Ah I'm not making any sense anymore.

[WhiteChocolate]

Hello! Early welcome!
Thanks



When you address Nnoitra, Starrk, and Ulquiorra like that... it made me realize that those are the three Espadas Kubo hasn't officially announced as dead!
Well Starrk has as much news as Nnoitra if I recall...


I think in an interview, Kubo said Ulquiorra was gone for good. Pesche was Stark is dead. However, he was hollow, killed by a shinigami. So, Stark is in SS now.

Kubo caring enough to show him is another matter.

Same for Nnoitra. If he wasn't healed in HM, then he's in SS.

The editors had Nnoitra listed for those who had, at least, small chances to return. And Kubo said Nnoitra didn't "have the eeling of death."

So, that's something. I hope Nnoitra comes back. Then this manga would be #1, for me, again.

[Minerva]

Welcome back, WhiteChocolate! :glomp Glad to see another fan wander back in.


When you address Nnoitra, Starrk, and Ulquiorra like that... it made me realize that those are the three Espadas Kubo hasn't officially announced as dead!
Well Starrk has as much news as Nnoitra if I recall...
Yes. He's dodging on Ulquiorra for a while now (especially compared to outright saying Gin is dead), and never said anything about the other two. Coincidentally -- they are to-date the only three Arrancar who got a birthday acknowledgement from Kubo. Which is weird if they're dead; how can they have a happy birthday in that case?

He left some serious loose ends dangling on them, and he has never yet addressed the issue of whether Hollows could be restored to their former selves if (big IF) they managed to find that which they lost. At least in two of those cases it's outright stated what they found -- Ulquiorra found his heart, how could that be more plain? Starrk isn't alone; his heart is/is with Lilynette. (And not having explained what Nnoitra found just begs for it to come up later, especially when Nnoitra figured he didn't deserve redemption. Of course he'll get redeemed after saying such a thing.) What next, then?


Right now I'm thinking "How in the world is he going to complete Bleach?"
Hollows, Shinigami, and Humans are all needed for the 'circle of life'. So obviously the push and pull between all three of them won't stop, so I'm thinking instead that there would be a solution for all the wars. The imbalance of power.
If there were a way to cleanse Hollows like Nnoitra and Ulquiorra without upsetting the balance or causing another war then... that could be one solution?
No, no, makes perfect sense. Kubo needs to wind up the loose ends; this is one of those loose ends. A Hollow who re-discovers his (or her) heart would have no place in HM unless they choose to stay and help the other Hollows. So where do they go if they leave?


I think in an interview, Kubo said Ulquiorra was gone for good. Pesche was Stark is dead. However, he was hollow, killed by a shinigami. So, Stark is in SS now.

Kubo caring enough to show him is another matter.

Same for Nnoitra. If he wasn't healed in HM, then he's in SS.
I am not currently giving too much credence to Pesche saying Starrk is dead. All that means is that they cannot sense his reiatsu in HM. If he found his heart, would his reiatsu not have changed to no longer read "Hollow"?

Likewise, I do not believe purified Hollows are in SS. We haven't seen them, and Kubo took the time to show that even the deceased FB made it to SS. A shaded panel with a few ex-Arrancar would not have taken much more space, yet it was not shown. If they were in SS, Zaraki would have found Nnoitra to spar with him as a stop-gap until he could fight Unohana again; it didn't happen. They have gone someplace else.

If anything, after what we have seen so far this arc, I would say most if not all the Arrancar are ex-Quincy and they've ended up wherever the Quincy afterlife is. There is not, for example, a substantial difference between Nnoitra's uniform and many of the Quincy uniforms we have seen. He doesn't even have a katana to suggest his background is at all Japanese. His name likewise would not be out of place on the Quincy roster. Same goes for many of the others.

No, there's a reason we have not seen any ex-Arrancar in SS. SS is Japanese. Arrancar were originally from the vague elsewhere called "Not-Japan". :XD They should be elsewhere.

[keitoz]

Thanks



I think in an interview, Kubo said Ulquiorra was gone for good. Pesche was Stark is dead. However, he was hollow, killed by a shinigami. So, Stark is in SS now.

Kubo caring enough to show him is another matter.

Same for Nnoitra. If he wasn't healed in HM, then he's in SS.

The editors had Nnoitra listed for those who had, at least, small chances to return. And Kubo said Nnoitra didn't "have the eeling of death."

So, that's something. I hope Nnoitra comes back. Then this manga would be #1, for me, again.
The most Kubo said about Ulquiorra was indirectly "Ulquiorra already turned to ash" which is pretty obvious to us. It's not really a confirmation though, most of us can agree to that.
Plus Kubo is very symbolic with these things... Ash? That's already self-speculation though, I guess. And like we're talking about here, it wouldn't be unfitting if Ulquiorra were "reborn", complete with heart, somewhere in SS or... elsewhere. Same for Nnoitra and Starrk.
Yeah I wouldn't give Pesche any credit. Don't forget that when a character says something, that info is something as far as they know, aka. it's a judgement from their perspective. Writers/artists use this technique to shut down any hope for a better surprise in the future... usually... hopefully... LOL.

Some might say that Kubo confirming Ulquiorra turning into ashes is enough proof he's dead, but like Minerva said, that doesn't sound right compared to his declaration of Gin's death.
Ulquiorra IS the most begged-for character to return worldwide. If Kubo said anything, that would make his actual comeback anti-climatic. In my opinion...

[Minerva]

Yes. I was willing to go along with Ulquiorra being confirmed dead before this, but not when Kubo has no trouble with stating outright that Gin is dead. The fact that he has said even less about Nnoitra -- and has said he was thinking of some scenario with Nnoitra long before he even mentioned the possible return of any other Arrancar -- means we should expect a few more surviving Arrancar (ex-Arrancar?) to pop up somewhere. That of course does not preclude any flashbacks such as we just had showing Gin however many years ago.

He is hiding something, and we will simply have to wait it out. Whatever it is, it's big and it probably involves Nnoitra in some way if Kubo was thinking about him around the time he was planning this last arc. For that I can continue being patient.

I am guessing it involves Szayelaporro's lab in some way. If we look back at it, almost everything with Szayelaporro is acting as a counterpoint to what's going on with Nnoitra at that moment. Not sure what we should take away from a particular part of Nnoitra's battle? Check the lab for a comical twist on what we should have picked up. Which of course begs the question of how the bodies fit in. At this point, it is (or should be) obvious who or rather "what" the bodies are, right?

[keitoz]

Yes. I was willing to go along with Ulquiorra being confirmed dead before this, but not when Kubo has no trouble with stating outright that Gin is dead. The fact that he has said even less about Nnoitra -- and has said he was thinking of some scenario with Nnoitra long before he even mentioned the possible return of any other Arrancar -- means we should expect a few more surviving Arrancar (ex-Arrancar?) to pop up somewhere. That of course does not preclude any flashbacks such as we just had showing Gin however many years ago.

He is hiding something, and we will simply have to wait it out. Whatever it is, it's big and it probably involves Nnoitra in some way if Kubo was thinking about him around the time he was planning this last arc. For that I can continue being patient.

I am guessing it involves Szayelaporro's lab in some way. If we look back at it, almost everything with Szayelaporro is acting as a counterpoint to what's going on with Nnoitra at that moment. Not sure what we should take away from a particular part of Nnoitra's battle? Check the lab for a comical twist on what we should have picked up. Which of course begs the question of how the bodies fit in. At this point, it is (or should be) obvious who or rather "what" the bodies are, right?

Yes, the bodies in Szayel's lab...
People say it's "Dondochakka/Pesche" because one is skinny and one is fat and I just want to facepalm myself.

One of them (if not the other, I'm too lazy to find it), is definitely wearing hakama pants. It just fans out because he's floating.
So it's very very very very interesting and I cannot wait to discover what it is!
Unfortunately, if it isn't directly related to the ex-Espadas, then they would be old/new characters that serve as a plot twist -sigh-.
Wish Kubo would realize that it IS possible to surprise us with the cast he already has (so many characters already!). No need to pull more out of his butt to make the story more interesting...

[Minerva]

Oh no, it should relate to current storyline -- and more importantly, since Szayelaporro had the bodies, the "someones" needed to have been in HM. He doesn't seem the type to wander off to the human world.

Image for reference:
http://i3.mangapanda.com/bleach/306/bleach-2406063.jpg

I'm inclined to say Viz is correct about the bodies being a "what" instead of specific characters. Since Kubo is bringing it up in our storyline, I want to guess it's a Shinigami and a Quincy. As you said, the one is obviously wearing hakama. Somehow I doubt Ichigo is the first Shinigami-Quincy hybrid. If Aizen planned all this with Ichigo, he had to have a prototype somewhere. He had a prototype for every other piece of meddling he did.

Since Szayelaporro's doings seem to pertain to Nnoitra in some way, I want to know what the connection is here. It's like how the Arrancar wear hakama -- but with a Western style jacket like the Quincy have instead of simply a white Shinigami uniform. I wonder if perhaps the Arrancar are not the hybrids we thought they were -- Hollow, yes, but what sort of humans were they originally? Humans with high spiritual powers usually mean Quincy.

Considering that Nnoitra is one of the three Espada who still had his rank after Aizen's meddling, I really must wonder if Aizen did something special to him. We know why the other two were special; yet again we don't know about Nnoitra. Considering that Nnoitra did fight Ichigo and there is no way Aizen didn't know Ichigo's real bloodline, I have to wonder if Aizen was testing something.

I don't know, just throwing possibilities out there. There is something weird about Nnoitra between his own potential and Aizen's meddling and all, and the fact that Kubo never explains anything about his powers or explains his revelations or anything unlike the other Espada.

[keitoz]

Oh no, it should relate to current storyline -- and more importantly, since Szayelaporro had the bodies, the "someones" needed to have been in HM. He doesn't seem the type to wander off to the human world.

Image for reference:
http://i3.mangapanda.com/bleach/306/bleach-2406063.jpg

I'm inclined to say Viz is correct about the bodies being a "what" instead of specific characters. Since Kubo is bringing it up in our storyline, I want to guess it's a Shinigami and a Quincy. As you said, the one is obviously wearing hakama. Somehow I doubt Ichigo is the first Shinigami-Quincy hybrid. If Aizen planned all this with Ichigo, he had to have a prototype somewhere. He had a prototype for every other piece of meddling he did.

Since Szayelaporro's doings seem to pertain to Nnoitra in some way, I want to know what the connection is here. It's like how the Arrancar wear hakama -- but with a Western style jacket like the Quincy have instead of simply a white Shinigami uniform. I wonder if perhaps the Arrancar are not the hybrids we thought they were -- Hollow, yes, but what sort of humans were they originally? Humans with high spiritual powers usually mean Quincy.

Considering that Nnoitra is one of the three Espada who still had his rank after Aizen's meddling, I really must wonder if Aizen did something special to him. We know why the other two were special; yet again we don't know about Nnoitra. Considering that Nnoitra did fight Ichigo and there is no way Aizen didn't know Ichigo's real bloodline, I have to wonder if Aizen was testing something.

I don't know, just throwing possibilities out there. There is something weird about Nnoitra between his own potential and Aizen's meddling and all, and the fact that Kubo never explains anything about his powers or explains his revelations or anything unlike the other Espada.

Wah looking at the picture again, those legs look like a girls.
Or a guy as skinny as Pesche/a guy wear tights?

I wouldn't doubt that Kubo just designed their outfits to be like that for the sake of creativity.
Besides, Hollows don't WANT to look like Shinigami. It's only natural that they'd find an in-between while being the perfect opposites (the white-half of Bleach) of them.

[Minerva]

I kinda think the one is someone wearing leg guards (or possibly leg warmers :XD), but if one is a Shinigami, it doesn't leave a lot of options for a "what" that the other could be. It has to be a Quincy. And by extension as you say, the Arrancar take from both sides and it's reflected in their uniforms. If it were truly just Hollows being inverse Shinigami, they would have white Shinigami uniforms (like Ichigo's Hollows). We then know it's not that.

I guess that makes Ichigo something like an Arrancar, then. His zanpakutou isn't a real zanpakutou; it is like what the Arrancar have. Ulquiorra was right: he is like them. :elmo

So ... I still want to throw on the table that it's possible Nnoitra was a prototype for Ichigo. Ichigo couldn't win even against him, and since Nnoitra fought Zaraki to Zaraki's satisfaction (however temporary), out of the Espada he's probably intended to be Ichigo's equivalent right down to the despair issues.

That would have some interesting possibilities if it were the case. Speculative, but certainly interesting.

[Tori]

I would like to join, I love Nnoitra -- he's always been a character I felt was one of Kubo's best, he was a dynamic and intriguing character and although confused me sometimes -- I definitely love him!

[Minerva]

Welcom, Tori! :glomp Glad to have you. Feel free to join in on the discussion!

[keitoz]

Eh. Okay so I JUST found this originally for the "Favorite Espada" poll:
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p17/joeveale/page12copy.png

And finally I find evidence that Nnoitra's zanpakutou isn't in its natural state.
Knowing you, Minerva, you probably already knew this, but I didn't. XD Must have skipped over that detail.
Really interesting though.

And yeah his weapon changed... no one else's had. Ever. 0.0
And Kubo pretty much emphasized that getting power ups (to that level) is near impossible if it isn't JUST impossible.

I wonder if Nnoitra was a special case being he just worked his butt off after defeating someone a higher rank than him?
In comparison to Grimmjow's case; we know Grimmjow has eaten thousands of lower ranked hollows, but didn't upgrade. And he's also old. Technically, Luppi wasn't a higher rank than him so he doesn't count...

[Minerva]

Eh. Okay so I JUST found this originally for the "Favorite Espada" poll:
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p17/joeveale/page12copy.png

And finally I find evidence that Nnoitra's zanpakutou isn't in its natural state.
Knowing you, Minerva, you probably already knew this, but I didn't. XD Must have skipped over that detail.
Really interesting though.

And yeah his weapon changed... no one else's had. Ever. 0.0
And Kubo pretty much emphasized that getting power ups (to that level) is near impossible if it isn't JUST impossible.
Better panel:
http://i3.mangapanda.com/bleach/294/bleach-2406537.jpg
Yes. One crescent ==> double crescent.

Not. Supposed. To. Happen. ... Ever.

(Especially for an Arrancar who lacks his heart/resolve/whatever.)

Know who else got a massive change of weapon after being provided with the proper motivation to pull himself out of despair?
http://i19.mangapanda.com/bleach/459/bleach-2528785.jpg
Yeah. That kid.

And that is one of the reasons I am damn well certain Nnoitra is still alive. Foreshadowing much? :amuse If Ichigo had the same thing happen, at some point Kubo is going to go explain what happened to Nnoitra for the benefit of those who can't figure it out. I rather expect to see something similar now with Zaraki as well since he's finally accessed his zanpakutou. Then of course, Chekov's gun, we need to see Nnoitra's real power/potential because like Ichigo and Zaraki, it would seem he's got more potential locked away than some fans care to admit. If Zaraki's real level was a fourth-level secret, is Nnoitra the same then? It's never been explained or obviously stated.


I wonder if Nnoitra was a special case being he just worked his butt off after defeating someone a higher rank than him?
In comparison to Grimmjow's case; we know Grimmjow has eaten thousands of lower ranked hollows, but didn't upgrade. And he's also old. Technically, Luppi wasn't a higher rank than him so he doesn't count...
He didn't get a power-up because he defeated Nelliel per se; IMO that was merely a demonstration of his potential. If he didn't have the potential for it, he wouldn't have been able to even dent Nelliel, much less split her head open. No Espada should be able to do that to someone even one rank higher; five ranks higher is out of the question entirely.

If it's not because it's something he devoured (and it shouldn't, not when Ichigo had the same thing happen), that power-up is for the same reason every protagonist gets a power-up: he has someone he wants to protect. Which of course is what we're just dealing with now in the manga. Hopefully Kubo remembers to explain about Nnoitra because really, that's quite a lot of leave hanging for four-plus years now. He's a special case all right, but in the same sense Ichigo and Zaraki are special.

[keitoz]

If it's not because it's something he devoured (and it shouldn't, not when Ichigo had the same thing happen), that power-up is for the same reason every protagonist gets a power-up: he has someone he wants to protect. Which of course is what we're just dealing with now in the manga. Hopefully Kubo remembers to explain about Nnoitra because really, that's quite a lot of leave hanging for four-plus years now. He's a special case all right, but in the same sense Ichigo and Zaraki are special.
And my baby Ulquiorra???
Lol jk. OTL

Ah that makes sense.

Hmm so "murderous intent blocks out the light" and obviously his weapon is a crescent (moon), but in the picture it isn't blocking out the light?!??
AHH KUBO WHAT ARE YOU DOING.

[Minerva]

And my baby Ulquiorra???
Lol jk. OTL
Hey, Kubo is thinking of creative ways to comically torture Ulquiorra. I'm sure something will work its way out eventually. :p


Hmm so "murderous intent blocks out the light" and obviously his weapon is a crescent (moon), but in the picture it isn't blocking out the light?!??
AHH KUBO WHAT ARE YOU DOING.
Hmm. It's not meant literally. It reminds me of Kubo saying that Rukia is Ichigo's "ray of light"; she gives light to his darkness, and gives him hope when he hits rock-bottom in his despair. It is the same for certain other relationships in Bleach.

In this case, Nnoitra's intent to kill Nelliel was blocking his "light"; he had to remove her to "see the light" as it were. And it worked: his zanpakutou changed, his uniform changed, he kept his rank even when most of the then-current Espada were being demoted post-Hogyoku. His powers increased -- a lot, like what we would see for a motivated protagonist. It's not difficult to figure out who gives him light; there is only one person left at that point. Even Aizen's false sunshine can't hold a candle to such bonds.

[keitoz]

In this case, Nnoitra's intent to kill Nelliel was blocking his "light"; he had to remove her to "see the light" as it were. And it worked: his zanpakutou changed, his uniform changed, he kept his rank even when most of the then-current Espada were being demoted post-Hogyoku. His powers increased -- a lot, like what we would see for a motivated protagonist. It's not difficult to figure out who gives him light; there is only one person left at that point. Even Aizen's false sunshine can't hold a candle to such bonds.
Hmm. I think it can go further than that, but I'm sure you already know.
"Light" ultimately means good. (not necessarily 'white' of course)
So once Nnoitra's killing intent was gone (killing intent for both Nelliel AND a good fight - as with Zaraki), do you think he was able to open his eyes and see the 'good'?

At the end, his killing intent vanished the second Kenpachi landed the blow. I know you dislike the romantic pairing NnoiNel, but bear with me. I don't mean this to come off as romantic of course.
Nnoitra willingly looks at Nel. So being able to see the light now, did he see the good in her intentions/words/manners/etc?

Argh. Everything about Nnoitra was so straightforward until this moment. NnoiNel wouldn't have existed if it weren't for this moment zzz, but now we've got this ambiguous mess. Why did he look at her? A sign of defeat? Humiliation? Maybe to impress her?

Oooh and look at this: http://i13.mangapanda.com/bleach/312/bleach-2405801.jpg
So there ARE books in HM lol. I wonder if Ulquiorra would read them in his spare time too.
Nnoitra's hair is awfully cute in that panel. Especially with the glare... MMFPH.

[Minerva]

I figured he was looking at her at the end as a clear "Oh, now I get it!" moment. She spent enough time beating him over the head about finding a reason to fight, so yes, it was something like him suddenly understanding what she was getting at.

I think Yoruichi did a better job of explaining this to her students (Chad and Orihime), fwiw. She told them outright about the heart being that thing you wanted to protect; that got them started.
http://i11.mangapanda.com/bleach/62/bleach-10254.jpg
http://i35.mangapanda.com/bleach/62/bleach-10255.jpg
http://i11.mangapanda.com/bleach/62/bleach-10256.jpg


What Nelliel did in comparison was keep telling Nnoitra he was a child who was not fighting for the right reasons. If she had sat him down like Yoruichi and just told him to ... think about what he had wanted to protect at the time he died as a human (that which triggers a Hollow's primal instinct, in short), things might have been different. On the other hand, Nelliel herself is still Hollow; she still has her mask and such, she had no increases in power until Ichigo came to HM. Perhaps she didn't fully understand it herself, not well enough to explain it to someone else. She treated instinct as a bad thing, when instinct is what drives characters to protect. They do not stop to think, "I should run to protect my loved one from danger"; they simply do it without thinking first. Instinct is nothing more than acting from one's heart.

Poor Nnoitra. I give Nelliel some credit for trying, but in the end Nnoitra had to figure it out for himself. No one could tell him where his heart is, no one could tell him who he was supposed to be protecting. He had to work his way through it on his own.

So we're back to "now what?" again. :XD Like with Starrk and Ulquiorra: they all figured it out, now what? Nnoitra has even less since Kubo didn't tell us what he figured out like he did with the other two. See, we need him back; we are due some explanations. :fu


Oooh and look at this: http://i13.mangapanda.com/bleach/312/bleach-2405801.jpg
So there ARE books in HM lol. I wonder if Ulquiorra would read them in his spare time too.
Nnoitra's hair is awfully cute in that panel. Especially with the glare... MMFPH.
I'm sure Ulquiorra would have seen no point in reading for enjoyment -- at least at that point in time, if he was even in Las Noches.

HM is like Rukongai with more sand. There is probably a public library in Las Noches at least, if not the villages. I wonder what she's reading. A romance novel? An adventure story? Oh wait, she really likes food. I got it! '50 Creative Recipes For Leftover Adjuchas'? '101 Vegetables You Too Can Grow in Hueco Mundo' (for vegetarian Hollows)? 'Really Low-light Herb Gardens: A Guide for Hueco Mundo'? Nnoitra always looks cute when he's sulking. Tsundere.

[keitoz]

I figured he was looking at her at the end as a clear "Oh, now I get it!" moment. She spent enough time beating him over the head about finding a reason to fight, so yes, it was something like him suddenly understanding what she was getting at.

I think Yoruichi did a better job of explaining this to her students (Chad and Orihime), fwiw. She told them outright about the heart being that thing you wanted to protect; that got them started.
http://i11.mangapanda.com/bleach/62/bleach-10254.jpg
http://i35.mangapanda.com/bleach/62/bleach-10255.jpg
http://i11.mangapanda.com/bleach/62/bleach-10256.jpg


What Nelliel did in comparison was keep telling Nnoitra he was a child who was not fighting for the right reasons. If she had sat him down like Yoruichi and just told him to ... think about what he had wanted to protect at the time he died as a human (that which triggers a Hollow's primal instinct, in short), things might have been different. On the other hand, Nelliel herself is still Hollow; she still has her mask and such, she had no increases in power until Ichigo came to HM. Perhaps she didn't fully understand it herself, not well enough to explain it to someone else. She treated instinct as a bad thing, when instinct is what drives characters to protect. They do not stop to think, "I should run to protect my loved one from danger"; they simply do it without thinking first. Instinct is nothing more than acting from one's heart.

Poor Nnoitra. I give Nelliel some credit for trying, but in the end Nnoitra had to figure it out for himself. No one could tell him where his heart is, no one could tell him who he was supposed to be protecting. He had to work his way through it on his own.

So we're back to "now what?" again. :XD Like with Starrk and Ulquiorra: they all figured it out, now what? Nnoitra has even less since Kubo didn't tell us what he figured out like he did with the other two. See, we need him back; we are due some explanations. :fu


I'm sure Ulquiorra would have seen no point in reading for enjoyment -- at least at that point in time, if he was even in Las Noches.

HM is like Rukongai with more sand. There is probably a public library in Las Noches at least, if not the villages. I wonder what she's reading. A romance novel? An adventure story? Oh wait, she really likes food. I got it! '50 Creative Recipes For Leftover Adjuchas'? '101 Vegetables You Too Can Grow in Hueco Mundo' (for vegetarian Hollows)? 'Really Low-light Herb Gardens: A Guide for Hueco Mundo'? Nnoitra always looks cute when he's sulking. Tsundere.

Hmm yes. So like Starrk and Ulquiorra, he found his resolution. Something to fight for...
I wonder if Zaraki did try landing a death blow. He did say he didn't feel like doing so, but when Nnoitra leapt at him Zaraki said that he guesses he has to, but what if Zaraki intentionally landed a blow on him just to knock him out?

Why would Zaraki want to keep Ichigo alive for the fight, but not Nnoitra when Nnoitra also gave him a pretty good fight?
So yeah, maybe Zaraki went easy on him... It's not like he was cut into two pieces like Kirge. If Zaraki wanted to do it, he'd do it.
Ah, but maybe Kubo wouldn't want a fate like that to an Espada he likes lol.

[Minerva]

That is what I am wondering. What is the first thing Shinigami are taught? The proper way to kill a Hollow. If Zaraki really wanted Nnoitra dead, he would have beheaded Nnoitra.

Since Nnoitra survived the intended fatal attack (kendo), I agree that the second strike wasn't intended to be fatal. Even more when we consider that Nnoitra has high-speed regeneration. I'm sure Shinigami are as aware of how to deal with regenerating Hollows as Quincy are: kill them before they can regenerate.
http://i29.mangapanda.com/bleach/186/bleach-12887.jpg
If he wanted Nnoitra dead, this wasn't the way to do it. Instead, he found a strong new friend to chase for a battle, like with Ichigo. It is like Yachiru had said about cutting off all Nnoitra's arm: Ken-chan wouldn't be able to fight him again if that happened. :elmo He did just enough to disable Nnoitra and give him time to think and recover and wait for their next battle.

If his regeneration is like Ulquiorra's, none of the injuries should have been fatal and all would be regenerable. It's up to Kubo as to whether he has a use for Nnoitra though. Byakuya was supposed to be dead and he's still around. Nnoitra probably took less actual damage than Byakuya and can heal himself so long as his reiatsu doesn't give out. Unohana was right there if she felt like healing up another Arrancar, and it's not like he really would be seriously fighting Zaraki again, not after Zaraki's zanpakutou issues were resolved.

So if he makes an amazing recovery, who would he get to fight? And why? No more battle for battle's sake, not for Nnoitra. He should be past that as part of his criteria for survival.

[Minerva]

Hey, just thought of something from one of the other threads abut Zaraki's zanpakutou --

Zaraki never commented on Nnoitra hearing his bells. After making it clear that Ichigo was his prey because he could hear the bells, there was nothing in his battle with Nnoitra about those bells. Now why is that? :headscratch

Only thing I'm coming up with is Mayuri's commenting about Zaraki and Nnoitra being like beasts with raw meat between them. Two predators arguing over prey and territory rather than fighting each other. For animals, such predators might sometimes kill each other accidentally but generally they would avoid each other instead of provoking a battle.

I wonder if that's the intent here, because if it is, it means he didn't intend to kill Nnoitra. Killing intent for Zaraki (or lack thereof) determines who lives and who dies. He has to get serious to really kill someone, and even that wasn't quite enough in Nnoitra's case to make it an obvious kill. A single extra panel of Nnoitra disintegrating like Zommari did would have made it obvious; Kubo left it open.

I don't think he managed to kill Nnoitra. And what doesn't kill characters only makes them stronger ... http://www.smiley-faces.org/smiley-faces/smiley-face-whistle-2.gif

[keitoz]

Hey, just thought of something from one of the other threads abut Zaraki's zanpakutou --

Zaraki never commented on Nnoitra hearing his bells. After making it clear that Ichigo was his prey because he could hear the bells, there was nothing in his battle with Nnoitra about those bells. Now why is that? :headscratch

Only thing I'm coming up with is Mayuri's commenting about Zaraki and Nnoitra being like beasts with raw meat between them. Two predators arguing over prey and territory rather than fighting each other. For animals, such predators might sometimes kill each other accidentally but generally they would avoid each other instead of provoking a battle.

I wonder if that's the intent here, because if it is, it means he didn't intend to kill Nnoitra. Killing intent for Zaraki (or lack thereof) determines who lives and who dies. He has to get serious to really kill someone, and even that wasn't quite enough in Nnoitra's case to make it an obvious kill. A single extra panel of Nnoitra disintegrating like Zommari did would have made it obvious; Kubo left it open.

I don't think he managed to kill Nnoitra. And what doesn't kill characters only makes them stronger ... http://www.smiley-faces.org/smiley-faces/smiley-face-whistle-2.gif
What if it's just a forgotten detail from Kubo?

[Minerva]

It's possible he forgot to include a few panels about it, but Zaraki isn't using his bells at all since the timeskip. If Ichigo was the last one who could hear the bells, did he run out of prey? Or did something else happen?

Given the complete removal of the bells, I don't think Kubo just skipped it. We can do an almost page-by-page comparison between the two battles, and that's the only thing really missing is the comments about hearing the bells. Taking into account that Nnoitra really did almost kill Zaraki and Nnoitra making repeated comments about how light Zaraki's blade seemed, I'm not sure he would make good prey for someone like Zaraki. Had it not been for the kendo, he would have won without question. That says to me that the battle was to teach a lesson, not to result in a death. Dead characters don't learn to do better next time.

I wish we knew what Unohana was doing prior to showing up to walk Ichigo back to the human world. She was watching Zaraki and Nnoitra hack at each other, then disappeared for a while. If Byakuya was waiting for Rukia to get healed up, and Mayuri was pillaging, someone had to be healing Zaraki -- who happened to be at the spot of Nnoitra's defeat. However, Unohana didn't show up from the same direction Zaraki did. A map of the older part of Las Noches would be helpful right now.

[keitoz]

It's possible he forgot to include a few panels about it, but Zaraki isn't using his bells at all since the timeskip. If Ichigo was the last one who could hear the bells, did he run out of prey? Or did something else happen?

Given the complete removal of the bells, I don't think Kubo just skipped it. We can do an almost page-by-page comparison between the two battles, and that's the only thing really missing is the comments about hearing the bells. Taking into account that Nnoitra really did almost kill Zaraki and Nnoitra making repeated comments about how light Zaraki's blade seemed, I'm not sure he would make good prey for someone like Zaraki. Had it not been for the kendo, he would have won without question. That says to me that the battle was to teach a lesson, not to result in a death. Dead characters don't learn to do better next time.

I wish we knew what Unohana was doing prior to showing up to walk Ichigo back to the human world. She was watching Zaraki and Nnoitra hack at each other, then disappeared for a while. If Byakuya was waiting for Rukia to get healed up, and Mayuri was pillaging, someone had to be healing Zaraki -- who happened to be at the spot of Nnoitra's defeat. However, Unohana didn't show up from the same direction Zaraki did. A map of the older part of Las Noches would be helpful right now.
Hmm I thought it was strange that Unohana had like 0 screen time in Las Noches. Surely her duty wasn't JUST to heal any possible wounds the captains and Ichigo and co. would receive... She had to have been on stanby somewhere.

So I automatically assumed she was with Mayuri when he was snooping around Szayel's stuff, but... Yeah doesn't add up.

I dunno Minerva... it still just seems to be an idea neglected by Kubo. It happens when you've got so many things to draw and touch up all at once in so many pages, you know? Especially since the Nnoitra vs Zaraki battle wasn't the only one occurring at real time. It's like... Kubo (not Zaraki) had those bells just to emphasize the Ichigo vs Zaraki battle. Like a tease to Ichigo and the audience. Well, I don't recall him mentioning his bells at any other point at all except for that fight, so that's why I'm assuming...

But yeah, I have a firm belief that Zaraki had no reason to kill Nnoitra. He's not that type of guy in the first place.
And he knows how to knock someone out without killing them :elmo

[Minerva]

Hmm I thought it was strange that Unohana had like 0 screen time in Las Noches. Surely her duty wasn't JUST to heal any possible wounds the captains and Ichigo and co. would receive... She had to have been on stanby somewhere.

So I automatically assumed she was with Mayuri when he was snooping around Szayel's stuff, but... Yeah doesn't add up.
We can't even be certain she healed any of the captains. Isane and Hanatarou were healing up the Kuchiki siblings. Unohana took care of Chad and his opponent, then stood around. She arrived for the last part from a different direction than Mayuri so wasn't with him (not that he needed healing from someone else). Someone healed Zaraki enough to stop the bleeding but couldn't completely repair the damage Nnoitra did to him, so I believe that would have been Isane or Hanatarou.

So what was she there for? :headscratch It seems wrong to send the best healer into HM when there's a huge battle planned in FKT; it's a bad military strategy to not have the best healer available to at least coordinate everyone else from her squad in all planned battles. It becomes even more strange when we consider that Yamamoto wouldn't let her go to the site of the attacks during TBTP precisely for that reason.

I would like to think she had a reason to be in HM if it wasn't to fight. Knowing what we do now, she could have gone to rescue Ichigo herself and let Zaraki loose at the rest of the Espada. I would have liked to see her fight Nnoitra, thinking about it. :amuse

She went straight to Chad (whom she barely knows) when the other captains had personal reasons to be there: Mayuri to pillage, Byakuya to rescue his sister, Zaraki to fight anyone who seems strong. I suppose she could have gone to rescue the Princess herself, too, if it came to that. (Again, would have liked to see that.) In the absence of ideas, I would like to imagine her choice of Chad had something to do with Nnoitra being the one to cut him down because frankly, I have no idea why Yamamoto would have sent her to HM without a specific mission. What did she do? Healed Chad & opponent, watched Zaraki and Nnoitra, and walked back with Ichigo. If she was there solely for Ichigo, she should have gone directly to him instead of making a side trip. As in most of the HM chapters, Ichigo was a secondary concern.

If he was secondary and everything else she did involved following Nnoitra's battles around, that has to have been her primary mission if she had one: something to do with Nnoitra. No idea what though without getting really speculative. I would however really like to know how she knew Nnoitra's full name (mentioned while fighting Zaraki herself a few chapters ago).


I dunno Minerva... it still just seems to be an idea neglected by Kubo. It happens when you've got so many things to draw and touch up all at once in so many pages, you know? Especially since the Nnoitra vs Zaraki battle wasn't the only one occurring at real time. It's like... Kubo (not Zaraki) had those bells just to emphasize the Ichigo vs Zaraki battle. Like a tease to Ichigo and the audience. Well, I don't recall him mentioning his bells at any other point at all except for that fight, so that's why I'm assuming...
There was an omake right after the timeskip (sorry, don't have the volume handy) with Yachiru interviewing all the Shinigami who went to the human world to help Ichigo about their appearance changes. Zaraki forgot he used to wear bells. :fpalm

It means it's not completely forgotten (by Kubo). Yeah, I remember Kubo wanting to do away with the liberty spikes for Zaraki, but the bells were there for a reason. It leads me to believe it's not just a missed detail in the battle. Let us see whether he resumes the bells now that he's spoken with his zanpakutou.


But yeah, I have a firm belief that Zaraki had no reason to kill Nnoitra. He's not that type of guy in the first place.
And he knows how to knock someone out without killing them :elmo
I agree. Nnoitra wasn't some random Hollow; Zaraki enjoyed fighting him. If he killed Nnoitra, the fun would be over if he ever got bored again. It's good to leave battle options open for later.

[keitoz]

If he was secondary and everything else she did involved following Nnoitra's battles around, that has to have been her primary mission if she had one: something to do with Nnoitra. No idea what though without getting really speculative. I would however really like to know how she knew Nnoitra's full name (mentioned while fighting Zaraki herself a few chapters ago).

I gotta be honest with you, that sounds a little biased with centering things around Nnoitra.
Personally, I think it was another slip up by Kubo. Like I said, he already had a lot of things going on, maybe he figured people wouldn't go into the details like that? XD
For example, I never thought much of it when reading/watching Bleach.
Oh and you're right, I forgot Hanatarou was the one that healed the siblings.
I think Yamamoto's purpose in sending her there was just to watch over her healers AND avoid the battle against Aizen. Probably to keep her from fighting? Knowing her now, it seems reasonable that Yamamoto wanted to keep her out of conflict if possible (yet keeping her on standby in SS is a little lame).

As for HER intentions in going there, I don't know. I did notice her absence, but I doubt it's for, say, a single character like Nnoitra.

And don't forget that SS DID do research on the Espadas in HM (well I assume Mayuri - using Uryuu's body - told them about all the Espadas he encountered). Oh, but Uryuu never encountered Nnoitra or even adult Nel and half of the other Espadas.
Never mind then. Maybe Zaraki talked about his feat to the other captains and word spread?

But I CAN see that Unohana would follow Nnoitra vs Zaraki around... though for the purpose of watching over Zaraki himself. Watching his killing intent and progress from the background etc etc.

Unless her secret motive was to heal Nnoitra, Ulquiorra, and Starrk (later on) since they have a chance of turning... and it was a secret mission. =w=
But that's a crack theory for another day I guess.

[Minerva]

A little biased, but what other reason is there for her going to Chad? That is the thing that's throwing me. The main problem with her mission being to keep an eye on Zaraki is that she went to Chad first. If she was supposed to watch over Zaraki (personal reasons, Yamamoto's orders, whatever), she would have gone with him or discreetly followed him. She wouldn't be making side trips to see who else she could heal. The second problem is that she left HM while Zaraki was fighting Yammy. I assert in that case that she wasn't there for Zaraki if she didn't even wait for him to finish fighting.

Likewise, if she was supposed to be there primarily to heal and otherwise support Our Hero, she would have gone straight to Ichigo; she didn't even go help Ichigo once Zaraki distracted Nnoitra. Walking Ichigo to FKT seems to have been an afterthought; none of the other captains knew about this plan. I assert that Ichigo was certainly not her reason for being in HM, in that case.

Sending her to Aizen's HQ doesn't help her avoid battle with Aizen, so it's probably not that. As you recall, Ishida never encountered Nnoitra; he did see chibi Nel when they first arrived in HM, but nothing after the nakama split. Would Mayuri have known anything about Nel prior to his going to HM, that he might recognise her? :headscratch

We're kind of out of options. She healed up Nnoitra's previous opponent Chad, she stood around watching Zaraki and Nnoitra hack away at each other, and she left with Ichigo (after her mission was accomplished). That's all, as far as we're aware. Either she's randomly there because Kubo couldn't think of anything better (I give Kubo more credit than this), Yamamoto gave her a mission so secret we can't even guess (weird/silly that there's no hints for it), or it's to do with Nnoitra. I honestly can't think of any other choices.

She stated she was there only to heal, so there were no battles planned for her. I'm pretty sure she wasn't sent to heal Chad, and she demonstrated she intended to heal any Arrancar who needed it. We also have the issue that Grimmjow is still wandering around so someone healed him up. I can't imagine Kubo would have her heal Grimmjow and ignore Nnoitra who was also right there. Grimmjow was nowhere near Chad, so she wasn't following him around.

Is Nnoitra that important to the storyline?

[keitoz]

A little biased, but what other reason is there for her going to Chad? That is the thing that's throwing me. The main problem with her mission being to keep an eye on Zaraki is that she went to Chad first. If she was supposed to watch over Zaraki (personal reasons, Yamamoto's orders, whatever), she would have gone with him or discreetly followed him. She wouldn't be making side trips to see who else she could heal. The second problem is that she left HM while Zaraki was fighting Yammy. I assert in that case that she wasn't there for Zaraki if she didn't even wait for him to finish fighting.

Likewise, if she was supposed to be there primarily to heal and otherwise support Our Hero, she would have gone straight to Ichigo; she didn't even go help Ichigo once Zaraki distracted Nnoitra. Walking Ichigo to FKT seems to have been an afterthought; none of the other captains knew about this plan. I assert that Ichigo was certainly not her reason for being in HM, in that case.

Sending her to Aizen's HQ doesn't help her avoid battle with Aizen, so it's probably not that. As you recall, Ishida never encountered Nnoitra; he did see chibi Nel when they first arrived in HM, but nothing after the nakama split. Would Mayuri have known anything about Nel prior to his going to HM, that he might recognise her? :headscratch

We're kind of out of options. She healed up Nnoitra's previous opponent Chad, she stood around watching Zaraki and Nnoitra hack away at each other, and she left with Ichigo (after her mission was accomplished). That's all, as far as we're aware. Either she's randomly there because Kubo couldn't think of anything better (I give Kubo more credit than this), Yamamoto gave her a mission so secret we can't even guess (weird/silly that there's no hints for it), or it's to do with Nnoitra. I honestly can't think of any other choices.

She stated she was there only to heal, so there were no battles planned for her. I'm pretty sure she wasn't sent to heal Chad, and she demonstrated she intended to heal any Arrancar who needed it. We also have the issue that Grimmjow is still wandering around so someone healed him up. I can't imagine Kubo would have her heal Grimmjow and ignore Nnoitra who was also right there. Grimmjow was nowhere near Chad, so she wasn't following him around.

Is Nnoitra that important to the storyline?
I totally agree with you that Yamamoto didn't send the captains there for Ichigo's sake.
SS won't admit how much they depend on Ichigo in some situations, but they actually DON'T praise him like most people think they do. Like he's their savior. Especially with Yamamoto's morals about not risking human lives or something...

Maybe she did heal Grimmjow and Nnoitra, who knows?
Kubo has yet to give us an explanation for Grimmjow's return, but I'm sure he won't skip that detail. He CAN'T. He has to appease the fans that DIDN'T support his return and demand a reasonable excuse for it.

I'm not sure how important Nnoitra is, but you can tell that Kubo did favor him to a certain extent. But if Kubo is willing to make Nnoitra relate to the storyline, then that means Ulquiorra would receive the same treatment since he's the definition of Ichigo's "foil" and Orihime's source of development.

Once Grimmjow makes his proper introduction, we can come back to this theory if Unohana healed them.
If we're lucky, maybe Grimmjow will confirm the whereabouts of Starrk and Nnoitra. And Ulquiorra (I'm dreading the moment. What if he's really dead? -cry- Nnoitra definitely has a larger possibility of returning than Ulquiorra because of the way he died).

[Minerva]

Yes, I really need to know why Grimmjow survived. There have been no omake with him, Harribel and girls did not note his reiatsu upon their return to Las Noches, there's been no hint he had not in fact died. Kubo has to explain his re-appearance. The more Kubo stalls on this, the more hopeful I get.

Let's put it this way: Nnoitra got far more backstory than any of the other Arrancar, and that backstory has nothing directly to do with Ichigo (that we know of). There is no reason to give lower-level villains that much backstory unless it feeds into a larger plot. Even Ulquiorra's backstory was relegated to a databook instead of the manga.

Why give Nnoitra that much focus if it doesn't involve the Hero of the story? He got his own independent storyline; why? If it's not supposed to be important later on, why spend that much time on it? The entirety of FB backstory got a few pages. What about Nnoitra is so important?

[keitoz]

Yes, I really need to know why Grimmjow survived. There have been no omake with him, Harribel and girls did not note his reiatsu upon their return to Las Noches, there's been no hint he had not in fact died. Kubo has to explain his re-appearance. The more Kubo stalls on this, the more hopeful I get.

Let's put it this way: Nnoitra got far more backstory than any of the other Arrancar, and that backstory has nothing directly to do with Ichigo (that we know of). There is no reason to give lower-level villains that much backstory unless it feeds into a larger plot. Even Ulquiorra's backstory was relegated to a databook instead of the manga.

Why give Nnoitra that much focus if it doesn't involve the Hero of the story? He got his own independent storyline; why? If it's not supposed to be important later on, why spend that much time on it? The entirety of FB backstory got a few pages. What about Nnoitra is so important?
Well don't forget that Nnoitra's backstory not only centered him, but Nel. Who is also a relatively popular character.
Oh and the plot twist of that side plot. So Kubo could also be emphasizing the "past Nel" versus the Nel that Ichigo had come to know. It's quite obvious that Nel DID develop (as Kubo had shown us through Nnoitra's flashback), she became more... "human" with her experience being kicked out of Las Noches.
Point in case; Nnoitra's flashback was hitting two birds with one stone. Showing Nel AND Nnoitra's backstory. Although a rather shallow part (nothing as far back and deep as Grimmjow's and Ulquiorra's or even Harribel's and Starrk's).

Obviously, Nel's story still has a long way to go. I guess that's why Kubo figured to put her back in (other than the logic that she IS still alive and in HM anyway). But as I said before, Nel and Nnoitra's fate were tied together so who knows.

Ulquiorra's "back story" actually doesn't tell us sht about him except that he was a vasto lorde who was the black sheep of his crew... Really. Nothing we already didnt know

[Minerva]

I honestly don't see Nel playing a huge role here. At present she seems to be an excuse to get Ichigo into HM for "Rescue the Princess v3 [Dondochakka rescue mission]", in which Ichigo forgets about the "princess" within moments of arrival in favour of rescuing random Arrancar from the VR. He gets side-tracked so easily when his heart isn't in a mission.

Her real importance seems to have been to give Nnoitra the proverbial kick to the head to figure out why he should be fighting, and even then he still seems to have figured it out on his own. That of course does beg the question though: why is it important for him to figure this out? Why him? Why not one of the other Espada? I bet the fandom would be happy if Grimmjow figured out a real reason to fight. Since Kubo chose Nnoitra for this and dragged in this long storyline about it and way more backstory than a single Arrancar needs now that they're all reduced to fodder, there should be an underlying reason for it that has some overall significance to the plot. Throw in the fact that the only common thread in Unohana's actions in HM seems to be things that involve Nnoitra. Throw in the fact that Nnoitra seems to have contributed to Zaraki's development as much as Ichigo did. Throw in him being singled out as one of only three Espada who kept his rank -- and the only one with no explanation for this. Throw in his weird zanpakutou change which is likewise unexplained.

Colour me biased, but it makes Nnoitra look pretty damn important from where I'm sitting. To me it looks like Kubo is building up to something so he can explain all these long-overdue issues with Nnoitra -- probably in the context of something Ichigo needs to figure out for himself. Ichigo getting distracted by random Arrancar is a big clue that he too needs to figure out why he should be fighting. Tiny unimportant battles aren't worth lifting a blade for.

That would be a good point to bring Nnoitra back in, even if it's just a flashback. There's really no other characters who have gotten a unresolved storyline about this issue. The only question is when and how.

[keitoz]

I honestly don't see Nel playing a huge role here. At present she seems to be an excuse to get Ichigo into HM for "Rescue the Princess v3 [Dondochakka rescue mission]", in which Ichigo forgets about the "princess" within moments of arrival in favour of rescuing random Arrancar from the VR. He gets side-tracked so easily when his heart isn't in a mission.

Her real importance seems to have been to give Nnoitra the proverbial kick to the head to figure out why he should be fighting, and even then he still seems to have figured it out on his own. That of course does beg the question though: why is it important for him to figure this out? Why him? Why not one of the other Espada? I bet the fandom would be happy if Grimmjow figured out a real reason to fight. Since Kubo chose Nnoitra for this and dragged in this long storyline about it and way more backstory than a single Arrancar needs now that they're all reduced to fodder, there should be an underlying reason for it that has some overall significance to the plot. Throw in the fact that the only common thread in Unohana's actions in HM seems to be things that involve Nnoitra. Throw in the fact that Nnoitra seems to have contributed to Zaraki's development as much as Ichigo did. Throw in him being singled out as one of only three Espada who kept his rank -- and the only one with no explanation for this. Throw in his weird zanpakutou change which is likewise unexplained.

Colour me biased, but it makes Nnoitra look pretty damn important from where I'm sitting. To me it looks like Kubo is building up to something so he can explain all these long-overdue issues with Nnoitra -- probably in the context of something Ichigo needs to figure out for himself. Ichigo getting distracted by random Arrancar is a big clue that he too needs to figure out why he should be fighting. Tiny unimportant battles aren't worth lifting a blade for.

That would be a good point to bring Nnoitra back in, even if it's just a flashback. There's really no other characters who have gotten a unresolved storyline about this issue. The only question is when and how.
Hmm I don't know about Ichigo going back to HM.
Right now, he's currently back in KT, sulking as usual and forgetting that he totally left his friends in the 'underworld' (after having a feast, hot springs bath, and brawl in RR). We have no indication that he's worried about his friends enough to make him want to go back.
As far as I can see, he's prioritizing the fact that he just got called fake over getting back to his friends so...

(btw, where the hell is Kon? LOL.)

Right now, I can't see Ichigo having any intention of going back (for some really odd reason) because of this. He has no other reason to go back there other than his "precious" nakama still being there.
Knowing Ichigo, from whatever info he gathers from Isshin after this flashback arc, he's not going to go to HM right away.He's not even freaking out about the "mystery person" much.

Well I kind of have no doubt now that Nnoitra will return since we discussed that Zaraki isn't the killing type (at the point). Besides, if Nnoitra and Grimmjow return, I think their little army would be enough to overthrow the Vandenreich army in HM. Assuming that Kubo gives them the same miracles that every shounen hero gets in the nick of time (Ichigo's apparent invincibility). And if Ulquiorra returns too... Yeah...

[Minerva]

Yeah, I don't see Ichigo returning to HM any time soon unless it involves Quincy matters. He left Nel behind last time and she has been abandoned again with Chad, Orihime, and Grimmjow. Clearly he cares so very much about the friend-zoned group in HM. :elmo I suppose that means they get to have adventures on their own? Or is Kubo going to ignore them until the final battle is over?

I'm not even sure if Nnoitra would reappear in HM or not. I suppose it depends on whether Unohana's mission really did involve him or not. If he's important enough that she was sent in to heal him up, would she have gotten him out of there? On the other hand, maybe we should be concerned if he wasn't her mission since no one has mentioned Nnoitra's presence. I don't know how he would feel about Harribel ruling HM -- something about females in a higher position who might devour him if he gets in their way. :XD I would hate to find out he survived but got picked off/devoured for being annoying to the Queen.

How well can he hide his reiatsu? He was apparently watching the entire time Ichigo and Grimmjow were fighting, and they didn't notice him. Would he have been able to hide his reiatsu such that Harribel and girls didn't notice him when they returned?

There is also the option that Orihime went back down to undo all the damage Zaraki did to Nnoitra after she finished whatever she was doing on the Dome (restoring Ulquiorra?); you know she can't bear to see anyone hurt, even an Arrancar. Or option three, Unohana sent Hanatarou to Nnoitra; Hanatarou was missing after finishing with the Kuchiki siblings.

Kubo certainly left himself a few outs if he wants to do anything further with Nnoitra. Several healers in the area, two of whom knew specifically where he had fallen. I would find it difficult to believe no one healed him, given that.

[keitoz]

Yeah, I don't see Ichigo returning to HM any time soon unless it involves Quincy matters. He left Nel behind last time and she has been abandoned again with Chad, Orihime, and Grimmjow. Clearly he cares so very much about the friend-zoned group in HM. :elmo I suppose that means they get to have adventures on their own? Or is Kubo going to ignore them until the final battle is over?

I'm not even sure if Nnoitra would reappear in HM or not. I suppose it depends on whether Unohana's mission really did involve him or not. If he's important enough that she was sent in to heal him up, would she have gotten him out of there? On the other hand, maybe we should be concerned if he wasn't her mission since no one has mentioned Nnoitra's presence. I don't know how he would feel about Harribel ruling HM -- something about females in a higher position who might devour him if he gets in their way. :XD I would hate to find out he survived but got picked off/devoured for being annoying to the Queen.

How well can he hide his reiatsu? He was apparently watching the entire time Ichigo and Grimmjow were fighting, and they didn't notice him. Would he have been able to hide his reiatsu such that Harribel and girls didn't notice him when they returned?

There is also the option that Orihime went back down to undo all the damage Zaraki did to Nnoitra after she finished whatever she was doing on the Dome (restoring Ulquiorra?); you know she can't bear to see anyone hurt, even an Arrancar. Or option three, Unohana sent Hanatarou to Nnoitra; Hanatarou was missing after finishing with the Kuchiki siblings.

Kubo certainly left himself a few outs if he wants to do anything further with Nnoitra. Several healers in the area, two of whom knew specifically where he had fallen. I would find it difficult to believe no one healed him, given that.
I just hope Kubo goes back to HM after the flashback.
As much as I love tightening loose ends, obviously Kubo isn't centering the plot around ONLY Ichigo, but the balance/bond between Shinigami/Humans/Hollows. (aka. Ichigo and Rukia - the "Bleach" of Bleach)

I wouldn't be surprised if Urahara and Co. got their own side plot. It seems fitting.
They can't develop when Ichigo is there making sure they don't receive a scratch from a mere rock or anything. Leaving Orihime and Chad undeveloped when the series ends is just going to make their "nakama" bond look even worse. Really. Some bond that is.

Well whichever way Grimmjow comes back is probably the same way Nnoitra would. No doubt about that. Technically, Nnoitra and Grimmjow received the same degree of injuries (including the injury to their pride lololol).
And you're right. He'd probably despise Harribel, but I don't think he'd revolt or anything. He'd probably just leave and hang out in the outskirts of HM.

[Minerva]

I hope so too. Kubo has stalled long enough on the situation in HM. He needs to start putting in some indication on whether they are getting a side-story or whether he plans to show that nakama bonds don't mean anything in Bleach by ignoring the HM group. (Maybe Urahara et al will only get their adventures told in omake like Kubo did with them during the Arrancar arc?) I would like to think a peek at HM would be a nice transition after a flashback featuring Aizen's Hollow research. Kubo still needs to get the lab bodies in here somewhere; hopefully he's covered enough story to reveal that. That's a good reason to visit HM.

I don't know, do you really think Nnoitra is still in HM if he's alive? He wouldn't want to live under Harribel's thumb, that's for certain, but all the "good Arrancar" seem to be under her rule from what we have seen. I have some vague idea that any Hollow who figured out where their heart was should somehow receive a "get out of HM free" card to end up ... elsewhere. Not in SS from what we have seen, but somewhere else. Would SS interfere and "do something" with any no-longer-Hollow powerful entities they discover? Or is there another afterlife option? Or was Nnoitra really concerned enough about Hollow redemption that he would choose to stay to help the others? (Too altruistic for him? :XD)

[keitoz]

I hope so too. Kubo has stalled long enough on the situation in HM. He needs to start putting in some indication on whether they are getting a side-story or whether he plans to show that nakama bonds don't mean anything in Bleach by ignoring the HM group. (Maybe Urahara et al will only get their adventures told in omake like Kubo did with them during the Arrancar arc?) I would like to think a peek at HM would be a nice transition after a flashback featuring Aizen's Hollow research. Kubo still needs to get the lab bodies in here somewhere; hopefully he's covered enough story to reveal that. That's a good reason to visit HM.

I don't know, do you really think Nnoitra is still in HM if he's alive? He wouldn't want to live under Harribel's thumb, that's for certain, but all the "good Arrancar" seem to be under her rule from what we have seen. I have some vague idea that any Hollow who figured out where their heart was should somehow receive a "get out of HM free" card to end up ... elsewhere. Not in SS from what we have seen, but somewhere else. Would SS interfere and "do something" with any no-longer-Hollow powerful entities they discover? Or is there another afterlife option? Or was Nnoitra really concerned enough about Hollow redemption that he would choose to stay to help the others? (Too altruistic for him? :XD)
Nah, the business with Hollows and the Quincy are vital to the story line if not directly to Ichigo. I'm sure he'll elaborate.
Since obviously SS is at a disadvantage with the Quincy, maybe the adventures in HM will lead to a greater strength for the "good" side. :elmo
Other than having Ichigo train (again), turning Zaraki into a killing machine and/or Unohana if she's still alive, and revealing the unknown captain Bankais, what does SS have against the new enemy?
So yeah, I think HM definitely has a role in this war other than looking like the victims.

I still think Nnoitra is in HM. It's a little too late in Bleach to reveal there's ANOTHER dimension/afterlife option (like limbo) for souls. We've already got the Precipice World (or whatever it's called) and that void inside a Garganta. I always believed that "fresh" or "lost" souls would hang out in the Precipice World until they recycle to SS or the Living World. No idea how that works though, but it could explain where Ulquiorra and Masaki would be if they aren't anywhere else.

Anyway, yes I think Nnoitra is in HM. Being a little rebel of course. I don't think Harribel would give a crap about him as long as he wasn't disrupting the balance in HM by completely decimating things (and since when was that ever disapproved in HM anyway? Nel was the only one who seemed to care as far as we know).
I wonder if becoming "more human" makes them weaker. Nel is hardly an example. Ulquiorra... hmm.

And eww that shouldn't even be a possibility with Nnoitra!!! Well at least not willingly.

[Minerva]

I would probably feel better about HM being vital if all the returned Arrancar hadn't just been used as fodder. :XD I wouldn't be too happy if Nnoitra showed up solely to get one-shotted by a SR; I'd rather have him do something useful instead of showing up because Kubo couldn't think of anything better to draw that day.

As far as other afterlife possibilities, the lack of Quincy in SS indicates to me that either we're missing another afterlife OR the Shinigami are deliberately not helping Quincy cross to SS. You would think SS would search out any souls with strong emotions since they would make strong Shinigami, but there are so very many strong Hollows that I can't believe they can't find this many souls if they really wanted to. But then, I am partial to the idea that most Hollows were once Quincy; it would explain all the Germanic and Middle Eastern names like we see with the Quincy naming conventions.

I do agree that Nnoitra would probably re-appear in HM though, but let us consider that he will have changed as a result of his "conversion experience". I don't think he would bother Harribel with her insistence that HM needs only darkness; if she wants to stay in the dark forever, that is her business. He is supposed to have seen the light after getting rid of Nelliel, if 294 is correct.

If he figured out what is important to him, Nnoitra being Nnoitra would be shouting for everyone to hear about it. Maybe he's conducting talks about "how to find the person you lost in 5 easy steps" or running some sort of loved-one locating service? It may not get them un-Hollowified, but everyone would be happier with a replacement for what they lost. [<== Today's crack theory.] It would in any case be obvious he was no longer Hollow.

When Aizen had first appeared to Baraggan, Baraggan had asked if they were humans or Shinigami.
http://i27.mangapanda.com/bleach/371/bleach-2401661.jpg
There must be some non-Hollows in HM from time to time. Perhaps a Hollow who finds his heart again is not as unusual as we have been lead to believe? Maybe there is a hidden colony of them?

[Colossus]

Back from the old BAs Fc, count me in Minerva

Why do you like Nnoitra?

Even if he pwned my fav character, he has the most badass weapon in the Espadas, 2 crescent moons, who wouldn't like that?

What question(s) would you most like Kubo to answer about him?

I really dont know since hes passed away for a long time by now, maybe rise from the dead like Halibel did?

What's your favourite panels or chapters with him?

His fight with kenpachi and his death scene.

Is there a song you consider "his" song?

No. But he does sing the concept version of ranu no Melody(wtv its called)

Favourite fanart of him?

Dont recall any.

Favourite fanfic about him?

Dont read any

Anything else you'd like to share?

His weapon had 1 crest b4, his current appearance has him with 2 crests, we dont know how his zan grew like that. (if im right, zans stay all the same)

[Minerva]

Welcome back, Colossus! :glomp Glad you're back.


Is there a song you consider "his" song?

No. But he does sing the concept version of ranu no Melody(wtv its called)
Ranbu no Merodi. I love Bleach karaoke. :XD Even Kubo liked this particular cover.


His weapon had 1 crest b4, his current appearance has him with 2 crests, we dont know how his zan grew like that. (if im right, zans stay all the same)
Most seem to stay the same. None of the captains had any changes post-timeskip that we have seen. Ichigo's changed though, and Ishida's bow had changed at the beginning of the Arrancar arc.

It would be lovely if Kubo ever gets around to explaining what happened to Nnoitra's zanpakutou, if it changed for the same reason Ichigo's did for example.

[keitoz]

OMG I can't believe I haven't done the questionnaire yet. Let me do it now...

Why do you like Nnoitra?

YOU KNOW WHAT I LIKE LOLOL.

What question(s) would you most like Kubo to answer about him?

What did Nnoitra realize looking at Nel during his last moments?

What's your favourite panels or chapters with him?
His back story and when he willingly looked at Nel before he fell. Might not be romance, but there was obviously a connection between two people who hated each other. Pretty deep.

Is there a song you consider "his" song?
YES HE SANG RANBU NO MELODY SO WELLL!!!!!! And Tesra too~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImN9iJnYlqo

And uhh, sorry about this Minerva, but... (NnoiNel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ritDxl3x44w
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqBymFztfJQ

DW I STILL THINK HE'S A BADASS. I just... zzz
Art gets me every time you know? You should check it out. It's nothing too incredibly OOC.

Favourite fanart of him?
The above videos I guess. All the good art of him are with Nel (people tend to couple him automatically with her like one would do with Ulquiorra and Orihime), but I like him specifically in this one. I love his slanty eyes and straight nose and pointy chin in the one... and dat smile. So cute.
http://sweetcrescent.deviantart.com/art/NnoitraxNeliel-sweet-paradox-91900894


Favourite fanfic about him?
ABSOLUTELY NONE. I have yet to find any well written ones with him without absolutely BUTCHERING his character! Even the NnoiNel ones! There are WAY TOO MANY NnoiNel "pregnancy"/S&M plots out there and it's just so blegh!!
I wrote one chapter featuring what I supposed would be their human lives before dying. It's full of angst like it SHOULD be though. -.-
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8627408/13/Masquerade


Anything else you'd like to share?
Am I an annoying NnoiNel fangirl yet? lol.
Well I really do like Nnoitra. Nel is my favorite female character, but Nnoitra is my second favorite Espada. So they don't necessarily have to go together. (but I can NOT understand GrimmNel??)

[Minerva]

You know, I wrote the questionnaire but I don't remember ever doing it in all these years. Oops. :XD

Why do you like Nnoitra?

He's the best-developed of the Arrancar, an almost-instant favourite character for me when he first appeared. Everything about him from his uniform to his freakishly huge zanpakutou catches the eye and says that this is clearly an important character. We shall see ... :amuse

What question(s) would you most like Kubo to answer about him?

What blinding revelation did Nnoitra have when Zaraki hit him?
What happened to cause his zanpakutou to change?
Why did Nel chibify when Nnoitra hit her? Any similarity to why Isshin can't use his bankai after a major injury?
What is Nnoitra's theme song?

What's your favourite panels or chapters with him?

These panels are particular favourites:

http://i20.mangapanda.com/bleach/309/bleach-2405915.jpg
http://i3.mangapanda.com/bleach/294/bleach-2406537.jpg
http://i29.mangapanda.com/bleach/312/bleach-2405807.jpg
http://i20.mangapanda.com/bleach/263/bleach-1589987.jpg


Oh hell, pretty much the whole of ch 294. And ch 313. I think those are my favourite chapters ever. I also (oddly) like the omake sketches from his battle with Zaraki. In light of White's fused blades, and Ichigo and Aizen ending up with same during Deicide, monster-Nnoitra in the sketches having fused scythes makes me curious if that is Nnoitra's real form. It wouldn't be the first time Kubo did something like that in an omake. (Omake-Kazeshini, I'm looking at you.)

Is there a song you consider "his" song?

Joan Osborne's "Saint Teresa" -- I'm convinced that is supposed to be his theme song. The lyrics and "story" are a match for his poem, plus Kubo has mentioned this singer several times. It's about a drugged-out streetwalker who wants something better for herself. Totally sounds like Nnoitra wanting to fight for the high he gets even though he should find a real reason to fight.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbAeTywPiP4
Lyrics: http://www.lyrics007.com/Joan%20Osborne%20Lyrics/St%20Teresa%20Lyrics.html

I also really like that the anime studio had him and Tesra do the cover for Ranbu no Merodi. (Hey, full version with lyrics and translation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36ZZ0ifoIfU). shameless plug.) Everyone seems pleased with their cover, even Kubo.

Favourite fanart of him?

My stash of particular favourites: http://tealmermaid.deviantart.com/favourites/41167820

Favourite fanfic about him?

Actually don't have one at the moment. Most fic writers seem to mutilate his character. I admit I don't "read" him the same way most people do, though.

Anything else you'd like to share?

There probably should be a line-item for it but Nnoitra gets so little fanservice:

I really like the chibi sketch of him and Tesra that Kubo drew, and I love the RS spines poster where we finally get to see who Nnoitra is reaching for on his volume cover. :amuse I need to make room in my office to hang that poster except it's huge and too awkwardly shaped for framing. Maybe I'll just frame that one section to go with the other Nnoitra stuff I have out. Fanservice for minor characters and pairings is priceless and worth displaying.


And now we can return to our regularly scheduled discussion! :elmo (Hey, do you think we should have our questionnaire answers linked from the members list? Or do you guys not want a reminder about how you answered?)

Should we make some guesses as to when we might see Nnoitra again?

[keitoz]

Honestly, if Nnoitra is still alive, why the hell not soon after Grimmjow's reveal? Unless he's already with him, but Nnoitra wouldn't be caught dead hanging out with someone as infuriating as Grimmjow... unless he's majorly taken a kick to the balls and his pride has whittled away to nearly nothing.

Or maybe he's already at the place where Tia and Dondochakka are camped doing God knows what.

Who was Nnoitra reaching out to in that spread? o.o
Judging by your reaction, I'm guessing Tesra?

And go ahead with the linking haha. I don't think we've said anything embarrassing (except for me, but whatever).

[Minerva]

Honestly, if Nnoitra is still alive, why the hell not soon after Grimmjow's reveal? Unless he's already with him, but Nnoitra wouldn't be caught dead hanging out with someone as infuriating as Grimmjow... unless he's majorly taken a kick to the balls and his pride has whittled away to nearly nothing.

Or maybe he's already at the place where Tia and Dondochakka are camped doing God knows what.
Yeah ... I kinda agree about him not hanging around with Grimmjow. Nnoitra still needs to be recognizably Nnoitra; despite the halo on his uniform he is no angel. However much he may have changed, there will always be people who irritate him to no end. Grimmjow is probably permanently on that list.

Of course, what exactly is Nnoitra supposed to be contributing then if he's not with the main nakama group? Not that I expect him as a friend of Ichigo's, because really, they never had even so much of a connection as Ichigo had with Grimmjow and/or Ulquiorra. He has to have something to do though. I'd rather not have Kubo draw him as filler or out of boredom. Or to be included as part of the Comic Relief Department as Kubo seems to be doing with Grimmjow.


Who was Nnoitra reaching out to in that spread? o.o
Judging by your reaction, I'm guessing Tesra?
You've seen the spread, right?

If we agree on that section being Nnoitra's part of the poster, the person standing directly in front of Nnoitra should be at the focal point of Nnoitra's attention (ergo, the person Nnoitra is reaching for). So yes, Tesra. Not to mention that Nnoitra has never canonically interacted with most of the girls in his section so he's definitely not reaching for Loly and Menoly in front of him ... and he openly dislikes the two he has interacted with who are fortunately behind him where he doesn't have to see them looking down at him.

Have I mentioned lately that I really like that Kubo has said it's a sin to draw something he doesn't enjoy? It's such a relief to know he can't be forced to draw something he feels is OOC. Some other fandoms I can't be certain if a particular sketch was fan-pressure or what. Statements like that make it easy to tell what's IC for Nnoitra. There seems to be only one person he likes and wants around; as we see in the manga, everyone else seems to be an annoyance for him. He tries to kill Nelliel, hates Grimmjow, snarks at Ulquiorra, tries to pick a fight with Harribel, and is inordinately rude to Szayelaporro. And all but has his feet on the table during Aizen's meeting. :rofl That's just his supposed allies, too. He's so not a people person.


And go ahead with the linking haha. I don't think we've said anything embarrassing (except for me, but whatever).
Thanks. :D

[keitoz]

Yeah ... I kinda agree about him not hanging around with Grimmjow. Nnoitra still needs to be recognizably Nnoitra; despite the halo on his uniform he is no angel. However much he may have changed, there will always be people who irritate him to no end. Grimmjow is probably permanently on that list.

Of course, what exactly is Nnoitra supposed to be contributing then if he's not with the main nakama group? Not that I expect him as a friend of Ichigo's, because really, they never had even so much of a connection as Ichigo had with Grimmjow and/or Ulquiorra. He has to have something to do though. I'd rather not have Kubo draw him as filler or out of boredom. Or to be included as part of the Comic Relief Department as Kubo seems to be doing with Grimmjow.

Have I mentioned lately that I really like that Kubo has said it's a sin to draw something he doesn't enjoy? It's such a relief to know he can't be forced to draw something he feels is OOC. Some other fandoms I can't be certain if a particular sketch was fan-pressure or what.
Yes he did draw out Orihime's and Ulquiorra's hands (Everything Divides Us) NOT for the manga (squee~):
http://bleachness.livejournal.com/69750.html
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/debbiechanlovesvegeta/EverythingDivideUs262.jpg

Well it's an obvious parallel. I provided the (crack?) theory.
It's just proof that Kubo draws out what's in his heart. I hate it when people say Kubo is undermining his own characters or ruining their reputation. What if that "new characteristic" was already a part of them long before the change? (ie. Ulquiorra's humanity, Nnoitra's loss)
Why people still think UlquiHime is a CRACK ship after his doodles is beyond me.


Well yeah... I was about to say "Nnoitra could be joining AFTER Grimmjow" but again, I can't see him being part of a "group". So... no idea. I still don't doubt that he'd turn up though.
And Nnoitra can't be in the 'comic' department... Not like Ulquiorra or Grimmjow. He's already been made a fool of and we all see how seriously he took that. Lol. It's just not in him, imo.

[Minerva]

You guys got the All-Stars spread as well; that's a huge deal for your pairing. They're front and center too. Just because someone doesn't like a pairing doesn't automatically make it crack, not after it's clear the manga-ka approves. Kubo draws what he likes and he likes what he draws. I would be quite envious if that spread weren't Ichigo's party, to which he would never invite Nnoitra because they don't have that friendly-ish connection. It is as Kubo had said, those Arrancar who were most likely to end up as Ichigo's allies are Grimmjow, Harribel, and Ulquiorra. And of course Nel.

At best Nnoitra might show up as a Lancer-type, you know, to poke holes in Ichigo's ideas and give advice as someone who has recently been there himself. I'm not sure if that would qualify him as a friend per se, but since Ichigo clearly needs to figure out that he shouldn't really be protecting every soul he stumbles across. Maybe Nnoitra could help him with that? That may be the very thing Ichigo needs, someone who can talk him through the really obvious emotional issues the poor thing keeps having. (Or do you think Ulquiorra would be a better foil for Ichigo in this case? His emotional issues involved a girl. Perhaps Ichigo could relate better?) I think that's a much better alternative to having Nnoitra go postal because someone laughed at him. Some characters are not cut out for comedy. He is too much of an emotional wreck as it is.

That makes it really difficult to figure out what he can do for the story though. I agree he's not going to fit well as part of the group. I keep tossing around the idea of it just being a flashback for him, but obviously that wouldn't show the necessary changes and whole "reason for fighting" and such. We really need to see him fight in current-time, see how he has changed, perhaps set a good example for Ichigo.

[keitoz]

You guys got the All-Stars spread as well; that's a huge deal for your pairing. They're front and center too. Just because someone doesn't like a pairing doesn't automatically make it crack, not after it's clear the manga-ka approves. Kubo draws what he likes and he likes what he draws. I would be quite envious if that spread weren't Ichigo's party, to which he would never invite Nnoitra because they don't have that friendly-ish connection. It is as Kubo had said, those Arrancar who were most likely to end up as Ichigo's allies are Grimmjow, Harribel, and Ulquiorra. And of course Nel.

At best Nnoitra might show up as a Lancer-type, you know, to poke holes in Ichigo's ideas and give advice as someone who has recently been there himself. I'm not sure if that would qualify him as a friend per se, but since Ichigo clearly needs to figure out that he shouldn't really be protecting every soul he stumbles across. Maybe Nnoitra could help him with that? That may be the very thing Ichigo needs, someone who can talk him through the really obvious emotional issues the poor thing keeps having. (Or do you think Ulquiorra would be a better foil for Ichigo in this case? His emotional issues involved a girl. Perhaps Ichigo could relate better?) I think that's a much better alternative to having Nnoitra go postal because someone laughed at him. Some characters are not cut out for comedy. He is too much of an emotional wreck as it is.

That makes it really difficult to figure out what he can do for the story though. I agree he's not going to fit well as part of the group. I keep tossing around the idea of it just being a flashback for him, but obviously that wouldn't show the necessary changes and whole "reason for fighting" and such. We really need to see him fight in current-time, see how he has changed, perhaps set a good example for Ichigo.
Nah, I would never NEVER relate Nnoitra to Ichigo.
As we have seen, their fates are not tied together. Nnoitra's fate is with Zaraki and/or Nel. (he could also just represent Hollows at whole)
And that's perfectly okay. We finally have confirmation that in Kubo's World, Ichigo is NOT the main character. Well at least not the ONLY one. (remember he says "I wonder why Ichigo has so much screen time"? lol. made me laugh in joy)
And it's pretty obvious that Kubo has a personal liking to Zaraki. I would even say almost as much as Ichigo. Now, I know Zaraki is meant to fight Quincies - that's what this whole arc is about - but still, Nnoitra is tied to him.
Yes, in Zaraki's hands... is the heart. LOL.

So in accordance to that, I don't think Nnoitra was ever meant to be Ichigo's foil. I think Ulquiorra perfectly fits the case. Even Grimmjow (and Nnoitra) is too similar to him to be his "opposite" since both characters loving on something called 'fighting/primal instinct' whereas Ulquiorra is the complete reverse. Nnoitra, Grimmjow, and Ichigo fight for their own beliefs. Ulquiorra has none; he lives on others.
Plus, other than Nnoitra, he managed to kick Ichigo's ass waaaay over his head with little to no effort - too bad Ulquiorra let his frustration get to him. Then again, Ichigo was injured and tired when he tried to go against Nnoitra (and was lacking killing intent at that point? Ichigo wasn't even trying very hard during his fight with Ulquiorra in the 5th Tower).

I have NO idea how power levels work in Bleach. Usually you'd say Ichigo is stronger than Nnoitra because Nnoitra was beaten by Zaraki, but that's not really the case right?

[Minerva]

There is still the issue though that Kubo included Nnoitra on the Hell Chapter poster as one of Ichigo's major opponents. I tend of think of Zaraki as being Nnoitra's real opponent with Ichigo as an excuse to get Zaraki there, but it doesn't necessarily seem Kubo sees it that way. I wonder if perhaps the point was that Nnoitra is far too similar to Ichigo, so of course he would have no problem beating Ichigo into the ground. Ichigo may have been in despair since his mother died, but is he really going to win against the character who embodies Despair? Not even close. No matter what Ulquiorra may have said about showing true despair, the fact of the matter is that Ichigo could still cut him, unlike Nnoitra. That slight hope of winning may have been what carried him through.

He and Grimmjow were at the same point at the same time, so with even a tiny bit of resolve Ichigo could win. He and Ulquiorra switched such that Ulquiorra ended up as the hero protecting the girl from the dreadful monster (funny how that worked out), and our hero-turned-monster couldn't win in the manner he desired. Against Nnoitra though there was simply nothing he could do. I don't think it was a matter of being tired or not being healed first; what does despair do but eat away resolve. Of course he couldn't win, because Nnoitra told him it was impossible to win and impossible to cut him. Shame on Ichigo for listening. Also shame on Ichigo for undertaking a rescue mission when his heart wasn't in it; no wonder he was lacking in the resolve department.

I do agree that Ulquiorra makes a better foil for Ichigo. For our hero who cares about everyone and everything he ever met, his perfect opposite would be a character who cares about nothing and thinks everything is meaningless. I think that's the primary difference between Ulquiorra and Nnoitra. Ulquiorra doesn't care about anything as a rule (well, until Orihime came at least) and is utterly emotionless. Nnoitra cares too much and gets very vocal about his current emotions; he does not seem to have forgotten what it was like to be human and probably never will forget, unlike most Hollows. Whatever he is feeling tends to come spilling out. He isn't good at hiding this, whereas Ulquiorra genuinely doesn't care prior to a certain point. In terms of the storyline I could more easily see Ichigo's second being Ulquiorra; it would be easier to bounce ideas off him and get a thoughtful response. Nnoitra might just resort to shaking sense into him, or worse, forgetting that the only person he is allowed to kick sense into is Tesra. :rofl Rukia might take it amiss if someone else kicked some sense into Ichigo; that seems to be her job.

As far as power levels go, it's actually a very simple thing that no one in the power level thread will admit to: the one with the biggest heart wins. Rukia's recent poem about the strength of a steadfast heart says it all. That's probably why all the poor Hollows keep developing a bad case of dead: no resolve. It really does come down to what Kubo likes and wants to do. We fans can argue hypotheticals about bankai comparisons and some-such, but really, it's going to be the character with the greatest capacity for love who is going to win. We know Ichigo is going to end up strongest; it doesn't matter what Nnoitra did to him right then (oh hell, Tesra beat him far worse than Nnoitra did), he's still the hero so he gets to be strongest in the end. I don't know that Ichigo strictly needs killing intent to be strong. I kinda of like him being innocent; I miss him being innocent. I also liked that Nnoitra seems to have lost his killing intent along the way, though ... :amuse

Honestly? It's just a question of which characters are in line after Ichigo. Zaraki is certainly up there somewhere, that's probably why Kubo likes him so much. (Did you have to do the "heart in Zaraki's hands" thing? I'm going to have nightmares on that one. :rofl) I'd like some of that to have transferred to Nnoitra with the kendo so he can be up on the list too. It would explain so much about his change in zanpakutou and power, and why he has that broken-heart design on his uniform jacket. In retrospect I think his storyline ended up similar to Yamamoto's, you know, suddenly getting stronger because some dashing young fellow decided to tag along. I would certainly include Yamamoto on the "strongest characters" list.

... Why does this list suddenly start looking like the SWP list? :XD (Okay, I want Nnoitra to show up so he can be on the SWP list. That would give value to all the chapters spent on why he should find a real reason to fight. How about that for something he can do upon his triumphant return?)

[keitoz]

Honestly? It's just a question of which characters are in line after Ichigo. Zaraki is certainly up there somewhere, that's probably why Kubo likes him so much. (Did you have to do the "heart in Zaraki's hands" thing? I'm going to have nightmares on that one. :rofl) I'd like some of that to have transferred to Nnoitra with the kendo so he can be up on the list too. It would explain so much about his change in zanpakutou and power, and why he has that broken-heart design on his uniform jacket. In retrospect I think his storyline ended up similar to Yamamoto's, you know, suddenly getting stronger because some dashing young fellow decided to tag along. I would certainly include Yamamoto on the "strongest characters" list.
Eh. I doubt Kubo would EVER explain the reason behind someone's outfit unless it's directly relative to the plot (like Zaraki's bells). You can tell he comes up with that stuff on a whim most of the time.
If anything, the broken heart is just meant to "expose" him since he's rather... flamboyant with his emotions... and then obviously his despair. As for the halo... Did Kubo ever explain what the purpose of that was? Or were you the only human in the entire universe that managed to figure out it was a halo?
Because if Kubo didn't explain, then he should have for the sake of his reputation. Now he is referred to as "Spoon" by 90% of the Bleach fandom. I wonder what the Japanese call him... The non-Japanese fandom is sooooo different.

Off Topic:
And aha! So another non-biased person agrees that Ulquiorra "rescued" the princess (and Uryuu) ironically. Ha.
Also, if you're curious, reread Ch. 342 and tell me if something suspicious is going on with Ulquiorra..! lol.



... Why does this list suddenly start looking like the SWP list? :XD (Okay, I want Nnoitra to show up so he can be on the SWP list. That would give value to all the chapters spent on why he should find a real reason to fight. How about that for something he can do upon his triumphant return?)
Pssh, be as biased as you want. Unlike the SWP thread, you won't be bashed for it.
We don't KNOW Ywach's criteria to be an SWP. We're only taking characteristics off of Zaraki and Ichigo (and was Aizen confirmed or...?). If Nnoitra is an SWP, no complaints there. He's got the spirit and as for the heart...? Only time will tell when he returns.
In that case, Ulquiorra would be a great one too except his primary weakness is caring for another (Orihime and maybe Uryuu? LOL).

But chances are, an SWP is going to have a Quincy somewhere in there. A Quincy they don't have... Yup.
Or at least someone they know, but we don't know how much information they have.

Perhaps they are looking for specific Arrancars in HM. They aren't just randomly experimenting on them for the sake of their army force. What if they are trying to lure in the bigger ones...? Say, the ones who feel like they have to step out of the shadows to fix the mess in their territory? (ie. Grimmjow, Nnoitra, Ulquiorra) - though I don't think Ulquiorra would still have any reason to care other than immediately sensing the "onna's" reiatsu and using Grimmjow as an excuse to see her again. jk! -drowns in my own fantasy-

Ahh you're so fortunate to love a character that at least has a 50% chance of returning (or the same amount as Grimmjow since they received nearly the same injuries unless popularity has something to do with it). Ulquiorra really IS dust. No doubt about that.

[Minerva]

Eh. I doubt Kubo would EVER explain the reason behind someone's outfit unless it's directly relative to the plot (like Zaraki's bells). You can tell he comes up with that stuff on a whim most of the time.
If anything, the broken heart is just meant to "expose" him since he's rather... flamboyant with his emotions... and then obviously his despair. As for the halo... Did Kubo ever explain what the purpose of that was? Or were you the only human in the entire universe that managed to figure out it was a halo?
Because if Kubo didn't explain, then he should have for the sake of his reputation. Now he is referred to as "Spoon" by 90% of the Bleach fandom. I wonder what the Japanese call him... The non-Japanese fandom is sooooo different.
I don't expect Kubo to explain, but like most fans I would be happy if he chose to share his inspirations and thoughts about the character's design/powers/whatever. I probably shouldn't be greedy because he has already explained a lot of what he was thinking when designing Nnoitra (unlike ... every other character except Ichigo and Rukia, and Ulquiorra's "4" placement, I think), but I still would like to know about the uniform. The broken heart is pretty obvious since Kubo did the same sort of broken-heart design for Riruka who kept falling in love with the wrong guys. Is that collar really supposed to be a halo (like the saint his zanpakutou is named for), or is he supposed to be channelling Elizabeth I? And what's with the high-heeled boots? That's ... not really normal male footwear. What on earth was Kubo thinking? I remember there was a dangling hint in one of the databooks about Nnoitra's zanpakutou having an unusual shape, but I don't recall anything about his uniform. :headscratch I will have to look when I have a few minutes.

FWIW, he doesn't seem to have a nickname as such in the Japanese fandom that I've seen; most characters don't except for the particular fan-favourites (Byakuya = 'Niisama', etc). Western fandom is weird.


And aha! So another non-biased person agrees that Ulquiorra "rescued" the princess (and Uryuu) ironically. Ha.
Also, if you're curious, reread Ch. 342 and tell me if something suspicious is going on with Ulquiorra..! lol.
You mean it's not obvious he rescued the princess? It's not often the dragon turns around to save the princess from the hero gone insane. Everyone should have noticed -- just like Ichigo noticing Ulquiorra got awfully chatty for some reason. How odd that he did the exact same thing earlier when Nnoitra got nosy about how "things" were progressing between him and their new princess. (I swear, Nnoitra needs to offer relationship counseling services or advice to the lovelorn or something. It would keep him busy since he gets so nosy about everyone else's relationships. He's observant, though, considering Ulquiorra's backstory made it look like he and Orihime were playing house and there's no way she was there more than a few days.)


Pssh, be as biased as you want. Unlike the SWP thread, you won't be bashed for it.
We don't KNOW Ywach's criteria to be an SWP. We're only taking characteristics off of Zaraki and Ichigo (and was Aizen confirmed or...?). If Nnoitra is an SWP, no complaints there. He's got the spirit and as for the heart...? Only time will tell when he returns.
In that case, Ulquiorra would be a great one too except his primary weakness is caring for another (Orihime and maybe Uryuu? LOL).
It was confirmed he asked Aizen, so I would imagine Aizen was on the list.

We don't officially have to know Yhwach's criteria. Everything in Bleach comes back to The Heart -- although again, it seems like the obvious gets ignored more often than not in favour of silly things like the size of a character's bankai. Like that's important. :elmo


But chances are, an SWP is going to have a Quincy somewhere in there. A Quincy they don't have... Yup.
Or at least someone they know, but we don't know how much information they have.

Perhaps they are looking for specific Arrancars in HM. They aren't just randomly experimenting on them for the sake of their army force. What if they are trying to lure in the bigger ones...? Say, the ones who feel like they have to step out of the shadows to fix the mess in their territory? (ie. Grimmjow, Nnoitra, Ulquiorra) - though I don't think Ulquiorra would still have any reason to care other than immediately sensing the "onna's" reiatsu and using Grimmjow as an excuse to see her again. jk! -drowns in my own fantasy-
Yes, there should be at least one Quincy. We're at 2 Shinigami (Zaraki and Aizen), one Shinigami-Quincy hybrid. Ideally we need 2 Quincy to maintain the balance in the group being formed, but a really strong (ex-?)Arrancar might suit if that is all that's available. I don't see Harribel as being on the list; her release is broken and that's not supposed to be repairable. If Yhwach wanted her, he would have left her powers intact.

Grimmjow wouldn't be strong enough unless he has gotten the huge power-up his fans expect of him. Ulquiorra -- would need be to restored before even being considered, and that would depend on the resolve of the restoring person if that's even possible; he might be too passive for Yhwach's purposes. I would hope it might be Nnoitra after having him fight two of the three confirmed SWP, but who knows. If it's not him after that though, I will question why the chosen SWP wasn't the one fighting both of them as foreshadowing.


Ahh you're so fortunate to love a character that at least has a 50% chance of returning (or the same amount as Grimmjow since they received nearly the same injuries unless popularity has something to do with it). Ulquiorra really IS dust. No doubt about that.
I think it mostly depends on what Kubo wants for his story. He seems to want Grimmjow (and Ulquiorra) for comic relief. Does he -- as he teased a bit in Masked -- truly have a situation where he can let it play out to see what Nnoitra might do? I know if I think about characters they inevitably appear when I am writing, but it might be different for Kubo. I am generally content to let him tell his story and fervently hope Nnoitra is one of the loose ends he would like to deal with. If it doesn't work out, at least Kubo did those couple of sketches of Nnoitra that are pretty cool. That's something.

[keitoz]

You mean it's not obvious he rescued the princess? It's not often the dragon turns around to save the princess from the hero gone insane. Everyone should have noticed -- just like Ichigo noticing Ulquiorra got awfully chatty for some reason. How odd that he did the exact same thing earlier when Nnoitra got nosy about how "things" were progressing between him and their new princess. (I swear, Nnoitra needs to offer relationship counseling services or advice to the lovelorn or something. It would keep him busy since he gets so nosy about everyone else's relationships. He's observant, though, considering Ulquiorra's backstory made it look like he and Orihime were playing house and there's no way she was there more than a few days.)
Apparently it's not obvious. I even recognized the "signs" when I WASN'T attracted to Ulquiorra (up until the fight in the 5th tower)
But the chapter I was referring to was when Loly was holding Orihime captive. You should read it again. =w=
There's no way Kubo DIDN'T draw the subtleties in Ulquiorra's behavior. Like for example, http://www.manga2u.me/wp-content/manga/94/363/2u016.jpg. That's definitely a protective stance and I doubt it was for Loly.
Ulquiorra ALWAYS has one hand in his pocket (Kubo had never failed to draw in that detail EVER), but in this one panel, it's out like he's in too much of a rush to lose his cool composure. Then in the next page, it's back in his pocket again. Ahh, you should just reread it and tell me if I'm being biased or not... I love his character development more than the ship honestly.

I love how Nnoitra was the one to confront Ulquiorra about that actually. Like out of all the people to be curious about Aizen's plan and then be aware of Ulquiorra's "changing" perhaps even sooner than anyone. Nnoitra is impulsive... truly a beast who cannot retain his emotions, but he's exactly that. He's aware of his surroundings and his prey. A little too aware and prideful.

Ahh, and then when he listened to Ulquiorra give that painstakingly long explanation about the most unoriginal plan known to man, Nnoitra just stood there listening and asking questions like a good boy.
He's not such a wild animal as Nel makes him out to be. XD
She's just so mean to him.

As for Ulquiorra giving advice... hmm. What implications were there about him in that field?
In most fanwork, he's depicted as a playboy. Wonder where people got that idea from? That single moment he called Ulquiorra's princess "pet-sama"? lol. (or his idea of her being a 'pet' in the first place?)

I never thought of him as being sexually provocative. Even with his lean and broad chest sticking out like so. I mean, he'd probably scare the girls way more than attract them with his beady eyes and his menacing grin. Then again, where did his anti-feminist moral come from anyway? Out of all the things to be angry about. It wasn't even the fact that Nel was provoking him about being a child/beast/etc, but the fact that she was THERE anyway.



We don't officially have to know Yhwach's criteria. Everything in Bleach comes back to The Heart -- although again, it seems like the obvious gets ignored more often than not in favour of silly things like the size of a character's bankai. Like that's important. :elmo
Hello, Ikkaku is a SWP durrr. Lol jk.
(but his Bankai is damn big... a little too inconvenient)



Yes, there should be at least one Quincy. We're at 2 Shinigami (Zaraki and Aizen), one Shinigami-Quincy hybrid. Ideally we need 2 Quincy to maintain the balance in the group being formed, but a really strong (ex-?)Arrancar might suit if that is all that's available. I don't see Harribel as being on the list; her release is broken and that's not supposed to be repairable. If Yhwach wanted her, he would have left her powers intact.


I think it's safe to say one quincy and one over-powered Espada/Arrancar.
He already has an army of Quincies :elmo
I'm pretty convinced he's looking for something special in HM. Experimenting/upgrading them is just a plus in the project?

*edit* OMG WE HAVE THE SAME POST COUNT.

[Minerva]

Apparently it's not obvious. I even recognized the "signs" when I WASN'T attracted to Ulquiorra (up until the fight in the 5th tower)
But the chapter I was referring to was when Loly was holding Orihime captive. You should read it again. =w=
There's no way Kubo DIDN'T draw the subtleties in Ulquiorra's behavior. Like for example, http://www.manga2u.me/wp-content/manga/94/363/2u016.jpg. That's definitely a protective stance and I doubt it was for Loly.
Ulquiorra ALWAYS has one hand in his pocket (Kubo had never failed to draw in that detail EVER), but in this one panel, it's out like he's in too much of a rush to lose his cool composure. Then in the next page, it's back in his pocket again. Ahh, you should just reread it and tell me if I'm being biased or not... I love his character development more than the ship honestly.
Ah, that. Of course he's not protecting Loly and Menoly. They are both too fixed on Aizen to be interesting to Ulquiorra. (They're named perfectly, I swear. This is probably who Kubo named them for: http://www.lollimemmoli.it/it/ -- design house that does chandeliers, you know, a bright light just out of reach. Perfect for Aizen-fixated girls. So much for Kubo randomly-assigning Arrancar names ...) But of course, that eliminates two of the three options so it is obvious which girl provoked that protective instinct in Ulquiorra. I wonder if that was all part of Aizen's plan.

Nnoitra called it first. :XD Just how much of Aizen's plan was Nnoitra privy to, seriously? :fu


I love how Nnoitra was the one to confront Ulquiorra about that actually. Like out of all the people to be curious about Aizen's plan and then be aware of Ulquiorra's "changing" perhaps even sooner than anyone. Nnoitra is impulsive... truly a beast who cannot retain his emotions, but he's exactly that. He's aware of his surroundings and his prey. A little too aware and prideful.

Ahh, and then when he listened to Ulquiorra give that painstakingly long explanation about the most unoriginal plan known to man, Nnoitra just stood there listening and asking questions like a good boy.
He's not such a wild animal as Nel makes him out to be. XD
She's just so mean to him.
That's the one thing that makes me think Nnoitra remembers being human. The other Hollows are like Ulquiorra, believing that the heart causes pain to humans. They want to set aside their emotions. And what is Nnoitra doing? Poking at everyone else's relationships. :rofl Being curious about what Ulquiorra was doing with his new Aizen-assigned companion. Saying that Chad, Ishida, and Ichigo looked when when they came to save their friend (so much for nakama bonds). Taking Orihime hostage to force Ichigo to fight him (so much for rescuing the princess). Forcing Orihime to watch Tesra shred what was left of Ichigo's rescuing resolve (so much for love confessions with nothing to back them up). I'm quite certain it wasn't Szayelaporro's idea that hurting Nelliel's brothers would get to her (so much for sibling-type bonds). He certainly doesn't think those bonds are painful for them; he just thinks those types of bonds are for weaklings.

Nelliel should have been a bit more understanding, but then, like the souls in Rukongai she was perfectly content with her family-replacements. If Nnoitra remembers exactly who he lost, he is unlikely to accept a substitute for that person. For those whose memories have blurred enough, a substitute would be fine. Nnoitra's memory still seems sharp; he wants that same person back even after all this time. That would explain his Hollow form. Companions are worthless to him so long as he keeps comparing to what he once had.


As for Ulquiorra giving advice... hmm. What implications were there about him in that field?
In most fanwork, he's depicted as a playboy. Wonder where people got that idea from? That single moment he called Ulquiorra's princess "pet-sama"? lol. (or his idea of her being a 'pet' in the first place?)

I never thought of him as being sexually provocative. Even with his lean and broad chest sticking out like so. I mean, he'd probably scare the girls way more than attract them with his beady eyes and his menacing grin. Then again, where did his anti-feminist moral come from anyway? Out of all the things to be angry about. It wasn't even the fact that Nel was provoking him about being a child/beast/etc, but the fact that she was THERE anyway.
I have no idea where that came from. Maybe I had the wrong sort of friends as a kid, but to me it read along the lines of "How's the new girlfriend? 'Scored' yet?" Especially in light of the fact that Nnoitra is so curious about everyone's relationships, there's nothing I can see that suggests he wanted the girl for himself. Ye gods, he would have to eat her cooking! (Red bean turkey with mashed bananas. Strawberry wasabi sorbet. Lime cilantro sushi -- wait, that might be good. No, ew.) At least Ulquiorra is a clean slate who could probably be persuaded that such things taste good.

I don't think he wants any girls around anyway. Remember, he told Tesra he hated when females were ranked above him. In HM that means they would be strong enough to devour him. No wonder Tesra looked worried, with the awareness that Nnoitra thinks male Hollows should devour each other. (The anime studio liked the idea so much they re-used it that Harribel's Fraccion didn't want to be devoured by any male Hollows, but it wouldn't be bad if Harribel did the devouring. :XD So yeah, it means exactly what it sounds like.)

It seems most upper-level Hollows have a particular "type" they like to target which is connected to what they lost. Harribel lost her children, and what does she have? A group of "daughters" as companions, and she ended up fighting all the children in FKT: one girl frequently mistaken for a boy, one schoolgirl, and one child-captain.

Who does Nnoitra target if he has a choice? All the strapping young men who wander past. He went after Chad thinking him to be the strongest of the group. Dashing hero Ichigo -- even Grimmjow, considering the amount of fandom-drool there is over his looks. Even his sole Fraccion falls into that category of strong young men. No wonder he got irritated that Nelliel ignored the "no girls allowed" sign on the treehouse to follow him around. :rofl I honestly have no idea where the "playboy" idea came from because it's obvious from the manga that he doesn't want any girls hanging around. But then, most fics and arts with Nnoitra seem to involve a lot of self-insert from female fans -- or worse, self-insert from male fans who think Nnoitra should be chasing all the girls. That might explain it.


Hello, Ikkaku is a SWP durrr. Lol jk.
(but his Bankai is damn big... a little too inconvenient)
I could have sworn Renji had the biggest bankai in SS, after Gin said his was the fastest instead of the longest. Damn Kubo's innuendo. Don't tell me Gin didn't mean that the way it sounds.


I think it's safe to say one quincy and one over-powered Espada/Arrancar.
He already has an army of Quincies :elmo
I'm pretty convinced he's looking for something special in HM. Experimenting/upgrading them is just a plus in the project?
Yeah, I think one extremely strong Quincy might be sufficient with an entire army of Quincy already. It's equally clear that the VR are looking for a particular type of Arrancar. Those who grovel are killed on sight. They want those with enough resolve to fight -- and Hollows with resolve are few and far between. Maybe they are trying to fill that last SWP slot that is being held for a special Arrancar? Obviously Harribel wasn't it. That's a good idea, though, that maybe they wanted to her as a prototype for upgrade experiments. She seems to have failed, though. If she can't be upgraded without major damage, what Arrancar can?

[Cue Nnoitra, with his newfound resolve to fight only to protect what is important to him. That's a good tie-in and a good reason to return him to the story. :wha No comic relief :yell]

[keitoz]

Nelliel should have been a bit more understanding, but then, like the souls in Rukongai she was perfectly content with her family-replacements. If Nnoitra remembers exactly who he lost, he is unlikely to accept a substitute for that person. For those whose memories have blurred enough, a substitute would be fine. Nnoitra's memory still seems sharp; he wants that same person back even after all this time. That would explain his Hollow form. Companions are worthless to him so long as he keeps comparing to what he once had.
Eh, it could just be instinctual.
Like it's a bond-that-surpasses-death kind of thing. He doesn't have to be aware of it. But it could be his subconscious fuel and motivation.



I have no idea where that came from. Maybe I had the wrong sort of friends as a kid, but to me it read along the lines of "How's the new girlfriend? 'Scored' yet?" Especially in light of the fact that Nnoitra is so curious about everyone's relationships, there's nothing I can see that suggests he wanted the girl for himself. Ye gods, he would have to eat her cooking! (Red bean turkey with mashed bananas. Strawberry wasabi sorbet. Lime cilantro sushi -- wait, that might be good. No, ew.) At least Ulquiorra is a clean slate who could probably be persuaded that such things taste good.
Nah, I'm sure that was intended to sound like that. XD
That's why Ulquiorra replied "Disgusting". Oh Ulquiorra, you modest young boy you.
And lol! I love your dishes! I'm so going to use them for future reference. The only "canon" dish I remember from Orihime is her "Chocoyaki" which is from a filler if I recall.



I don't think he wants any girls around anyway. Remember, he told Tesra he hated when females were ranked above him. In HM that means they would be strong enough to devour him. No wonder Tesra looked worried, with the awareness that Nnoitra thinks male Hollows should devour each other. (The anime studio liked the idea so much they re-used it that Harribel's Fraccion didn't want to be devoured by any male Hollows, but it wouldn't be bad if Harribel did the devouring. :XD So yeah, it means exactly what it sounds like.)
Well it could just be the "prostitutes" of HM? That's kind of what people were inferring in most of those fanworks... rofl.
Ah, it makes Nnoitra look dirty. In my opinion, he's much more down to Earth than that. Though "pet-sama"... where'd he get that idea from? zzz

omg that reminds me I read this one two three UH fanfics that had Nnoitra in it and he always tries to sexually assault Orihime. Makes me sad. Assault for fun to spite Ulquiorra yes, but do people really think he's all about sex? LOL.
Well I guess it's Kubo's fault for making him look like he's awfully sexually frustrated (the birth of NnoiNel).




I could have sworn Renji had the biggest bankai in SS, after Gin said his was the fastest instead of the longest. Damn Kubo's innuendo. Don't tell me Gin didn't mean that the way it sounds.
Oh yeah, totally forgot about Renji. omg I'm so sorry you pitiful character, I still like you!!
But Renji's is big as it is long. I just think Ikkaku's looks ridiculously big. When put together at least.



Yeah, I think one extremely strong Quincy might be sufficient with an entire army of Quincy already. It's equally clear that the VR are looking for a particular type of Arrancar. Those who grovel are killed on sight. They want those with enough resolve to fight -- and Hollows with resolve are few and far between. Maybe they are trying to fill that last SWP slot that is being held for a special Arrancar? Obviously Harribel wasn't it. That's a good idea, though, that maybe they wanted to her as a prototype for upgrade experiments. She seems to have failed, though. If she can't be upgraded without major damage, what Arrancar can?

[Cue Nnoitra, with his newfound resolve to fight only to protect what is important to him. That's a good tie-in and a good reason to return him to the story. :wha No comic relief :yell]
Honestly, I never thought highly of Harribel. Especially since she went against one of Kubo's "miracle" boys (ie. Hitsugaya/Ichigo/Zaraki). It just doesn't show her power level well when we know Toushiro is going to miraculously win. Whereas the Starrk vs Kyouraku fight was more entertaining because we didn't know Kyouraku's capabilities at that point.
So yeah. She's not special (I don't think she was ever meant to be).

So I was thinking, Nnoitra is likely to come back the same way we last saw him.
But I just remembered that Ulquiorra has a 60% chance of being a human if he is still alive. OTL
So if he's human, he won't be much help for the Quincies nor against them (SWP). Eh, but that's a crack theory.

[Minerva]

Eh, it could just be instinctual.
Like it's a bond-that-surpasses-death kind of thing. He doesn't have to be aware of it. But it could be his subconscious fuel and motivation.
That makes sense, but I don't know how subconscious it is. It is in his poem to keep looking up to not see (presumably Nelliel's) pity. He does know there's something better out there, but perhaps he doesn't quite know what it is he's looking for. All he can do is say, "Not this person, not this one either" until he runs out of options.

No wonder he's in despair.


Nah, I'm sure that was intended to sound like that. XD
That's why Ulquiorra replied "Disgusting". Oh Ulquiorra, you modest young boy you.
And immediately after, pure young Ulquiorra went to take a cold shower and lay down for a while in a quiet room. Because of course he would never think such a thing. Nnoitra is clearly evil for suggesting he would ever have these thoughts.

I think his answer reinforces that he was in fact thinking along those lines, and perhaps Nnoitra can read minds. Or was it written on his face for all to see? (a emotion! ack!) :XD


And lol! I love your dishes! I'm so going to use them for future reference. The only "canon" dish I remember from Orihime is her "Chocoyaki" which is from a filler if I recall.
Feel free. I can invent more. There's enough weird food in my kitchen to come up with plenty of things Orihime would love. Sweet and sour buttercream burritos, anyone? Coconut salsa chip cookies? Tomato-blueberry pie?


Well it could just be the "prostitutes" of HM? That's kind of what people were inferring in most of those fanworks... rofl.
Ah, it makes Nnoitra look dirty. In my opinion, he's much more down to Earth than that. Though "pet-sama"... where'd he get that idea from? zzz

omg that reminds me I read this one two three UH fanfics that had Nnoitra in it and he always tries to sexually assault Orihime. Makes me sad. Assault for fun to spite Ulquiorra yes, but do people really think he's all about sex? LOL.
Well I guess it's Kubo's fault for making him look like he's awfully sexually frustrated (the birth of NnoiNel).
Maybe Orihime is supposed to be Ulquiorra's "pet" human? Makes me wonder what Nnoitra intended to do with Orihime once Ichigo was defeated -- return her to Ulquiorra? Or to Aizen? I doubt he intended to keep her, fics aside and all. People keep rec'ing those to me "because Nnoitra is in it", and I just want to cry because they're so OOC.

I'm sure Nnoitra thinks about things besides sex once in a while. Battles, yes, battles and lots of them. Why no, he's not frustrated at all. :elmo (And the skyscrapers in Ichigo's inner world didn't shrink due to powerless, nope. Kubo is a Freudian.) I'm sure you see his problem. There's no point in falling for someone who isn't strong enough to stay with him, and empty relationships are just that: empty. He doesn't want that either, and so tries to drown his sorrows in battle.

This will probably come out wrong, but anyway: what he wants is a fairytale, someone who will be with him forever. His release command is "inore" ("pray", but also "wish" as in "when you wish upon a star" ). I only recently realised this when I acquired some vintage tattoo flash for a project, but his estigma seems to be in the shape of a shooting star/falling star. You know, back to wishing upon stars for your dreams to come true. I wonder if that is part of the intent of his poem, that if "we" are looking higher than the moon, what is up there? The stars, a symbol of hope. I don't know if it's what most Hollows would wish for since most of them seem happy enough as they are, but since Nnoitra has clearly a broken heart (and like most such, refuses to get burned again), he wants back what he lost. Among other things, he lost all hope which is why he is Despair.

I wonder if part of his issue is that Nelliel is quite similar to his type, except for being female. If she's [i]almost what he is looking for and she insists on tagging along, is that good enough? He obviously does get caught up on the idea of fighting her, same as Zaraki does with Unohana, instead of pursuing what he really should be looking for. He makes no progress forward until he is rid of her, then a great leap forward. A substitute is never quite as good as the genuine article, and neither is clinging to what one has out of fear of never finding what one really wanted all along. We saw this very thing with Zaraki, so I'm sure it's important for Nnoitra as well.


Honestly, I never thought highly of Harribel. Especially since she went against one of Kubo's "miracle" boys (ie. Hitsugaya/Ichigo/Zaraki). It just doesn't show her power level well when we know Toushiro is going to miraculously win. Whereas the Starrk vs Kyouraku fight was more entertaining because we didn't know Kyouraku's capabilities at that point.
So yeah. She's not special (I don't think she was ever meant to be).
I don't quite know what to think about Harribel. We have seen so little of her that she doesn't really have much of a personality. I would find it hard to believe that an undeveloped character would be on the SWP list with characters who have been developed so well. If there is an Arrancar on this list at all, it would have to be one with some development.


So I was thinking, Nnoitra is likely to come back the same way we last saw him.
But I just remembered that Ulquiorra has a 60% chance of being a human if he is still alive. OTL
So if he's human, he won't be much help for the Quincies nor against them (SWP). Eh, but that's a crack theory.
Ulquiorra should be ... at least not-Hollow if he truly found his heart in Orihime's hands, if he returns. So long as ex-Hollows still had their powers, they wouldn't exactly be normal human souls, they aren't going to revert to being a basic Plus because they should have had some level of spiritual powers even as a living human. Same would go for Nnoitra if he truly did figure things out; he has a huge reiatsu, so he would never be just a normal human soul even if de-Hollowified.

The question is, if you take away the Hollow powers ... would an Arrancar turn into a Shinigami by default? Or is there another option here for them?

[keitoz]

That makes sense, but I don't know how subconscious it is. It is in his poem to keep looking up to not see (presumably Nelliel's) pity. He does know there's something better out there, but perhaps he doesn't quite know what it is he's looking for. All he can do is say, "Not this person, not this one either" until he runs out of options.

No wonder he's in despair.
Grr I want to know why he's despair! Looking at him through a shallow perspective, you wouldn't think he was the aspect of Despair at all. Even after his flashback. Even if you consider the flashback... despair about what? A girl (specifically Nel as far as we know) being higher ranked than him?
But I assume that an Espada's aspect of death is given to them at birth or early in their lives to influence their future decisions. (ie. Grimmjow's destruction, Nnoitra's void, Starrk's loneliness, etc... Or at least in their personalities - Harribel)

I mean, I'm honestly having a hard time accepting that his despair is from this "bond" you're talking about. It kind of makes him look dependent? Although, I understand that you can ONLY despair when you ARE dependent (or expect too much) on something. I love Ulquiorra like no other, but I would have loved Nnoitra's ACTUAL backstory just as much.
Ulquiorra's was predictable. Not much can happen in a void. The best part of that doujinshi was him waking up to Orihime's face and Kubo pretty much slapping in our faces that Ulquiorra was comfortable around Orihime to sleep in her room. Deep enough to dream to :elmo



And immediately after, pure young Ulquiorra went to take a cold shower and lay down for a while in a quiet room. Because of course he would never think such a thing. Nnoitra is clearly evil for suggesting he would ever have these thoughts.

I think his answer reinforces that he was in fact thinking along those lines, and perhaps Nnoitra can read minds. Or was it written on his face for all to see? (a emotion! ack!) :XD
I laughed at this louder than I should have in public LOL (I check BA on my phone all the time).
Ulquiorra's answer means he KNOWS what Nnoitra was talking about. That's pretty interesting to me lawls.

But I'm convinced now that Ulquiorra likes to express his sexual frustration in the form of long, drawn-out speeches. For example, his uncalled-for long reveal of Aizen's plan to Nnoitra and his lecturing to Ichigo after he interrupted his moment with Orihime (causing the strawberry-head to actually make him shut up LOL).
Ah Ulquiorra... you're a much more dynamic character than most people think and I love it.



Feel free. I can invent more. There's enough weird food in my kitchen to come up with plenty of things Orihime would love. Sweet and sour buttercream burritos, anyone? Coconut salsa chip cookies? Tomato-blueberry pie?

-gag-


Maybe Orihime is supposed to be Ulquiorra's "pet" human? Makes me wonder what Nnoitra intended to do with Orihime once Ichigo was defeated -- return her to Ulquiorra? Or to Aizen? I doubt he intended to keep her, fics aside and all. People keep rec'ing those to me "because Nnoitra is in it", and I just want to cry because they're so OOC.

Eh. Knowing Nnoitra, he'd probably like to make her pee in her hakama by threatening to kill her, but don't forget that after Nnoitra's defeat, Ulquiorra was already out of the Negacion waiting for Starrk to bring her back to him in the 5th tower (did I spell that right? too lazy to look it up). So he'd probably swoop in protectively before Nnoitra could even look at 'pet-sama'. If Starrk didn't make it in time.

Or am I getting my timeline mixed up?

Almost no one has managed to keep Nnoitra in character for more than 1 chapter. Well I can't blame them. Undeniably, he's in the non-muse/inspirational category. Heck, as popular as NnoiNel is, there aren't nearly as many fanfics of them as there should be and people DO look for them. It's just that no one knows how to write them.

(they either make Nel a complete child in her adult form or a complete b****. When I write her, it's a mixture of both depending who she is talking to - and we all know how she acts towards Nnoitra versus Ichigo)

I write Nnoitra as the does-whatever-he-wants-however-he-wants type of guy. He enjoys making people uncomfortable or infuriated (ie. Ulquiorra and Grimmjow), but hates receiving the same treatment.


This will probably come out wrong, but anyway: what he wants is a fairytale, someone who will be with him forever. His release command is "inore" ("pray", but also "wish" as in "when you wish upon a star" [insert cheesy Disney song]).
My interpretation of "inore" is more like "pray for mercy". He is the high being, etc etc - hence the halo.



Ulquiorra should be ... at least not-Hollow if he truly found his heart in Orihime's hands, if he returns. So long as ex-Hollows still had their powers, they wouldn't exactly be normal human souls, they aren't going to revert to being a basic Plus because they should have had some level of spiritual powers even as a living human. Same would go for Nnoitra if he truly did figure things out; he has a huge reiatsu, so he would never be just a normal human soul even if de-Hollowified.
Ew. I just realized, Ulquiorra could be the first "natural" Hollow with his hole filled in.
"Shiro" has proven to us that that isn't impossible (but how is it possible in the first place? I doubt this flashback will explain -.- Like how was Isshin able to recall what Aizen did or said when he was invisible? Damn it. Or describe Masaki's conversations with the Ishida's? He IS the one telling the flashback right? Then what is he REALLY telling Ichigo? I know I should speculate on how the story is made, but really... flashbacks/storytelling is supposed to be biased. Oh well).

And as far as we can tell, Shiro is pretty strong even as a "hybrid". So... Ulquiorraaaaa~!
I don't really care if he comes back as comic relief/side character/weak human/etc. I just want him back. Call me a shallow fan, but really, if you're a true fan, you'd accept them no matter what happens.



The question is, if you take away the Hollow powers ... would an Arrancar turn into a Shinigami by default? Or is there another option here for them?
Truth be told, I ask myself this A LOT.
Technically, you don't turn into a "shinigami" no matter your spiritual awareness. You gotta go to school for that. At least for a license.
So I assume the real question you're asking is if he ends up spiritually aware in the outskirts of SS? Well.
Too many people argue that he was killed by a cero even though it's clear that the cero didn't kill him nor his missing organs, overusing his reiatsu did. Not sure what happens to people who run out of juice though. Ulquiorra was the first and only case.
Poor him. He really was brutally murdered by Hollow!Ichigo.

[Minerva]

Grr I want to know why he's despair! Looking at him through a shallow perspective, you wouldn't think he was the aspect of Despair at all. Even after his flashback. Even if you consider the flashback... despair about what? A girl (specifically Nel as far as we know) being higher ranked than him?
But I assume that an Espada's aspect of death is given to them at birth or early in their lives to influence their future decisions. (ie. Grimmjow's destruction, Nnoitra's void, Starrk's loneliness, etc... Or at least in their personalities - Harribel)
I'm guessing it is set at the moment their humans lives end. What was their last thought? What were they trying to do just then? That determines what form their Hollow powers will take. We also have the advantage of reading the manga such that we can see what kanji Kubo has chosen for their releases. A lot of them are straightforward though ("panther king", "shark empress", etc), so we look for those that have an additional meaning if we need additional information on why they have that aspect of death.

In Nnoitra's case ~ 聖哭螳螂 (サンタテレサ): “Santa Teresa”
聖 : holy, sacred, saint, pure
哭 : weep, lament, wail, sorrow
蟷螂 : praying mantis

Kubo didn't indicate whether Nnoitra was one of those Espada who was designed early enough to be part of his "Seven Deadly Sins" plan or not. However, in the old-style lists, there is the sin Tristitia (sorrow/despair), which was folded into Acedia (sloth) around 600 CE. Nnoitra's release kanji includes "哭" (sorrow/weeping); his main "thing" is that he will grieve his loss forever. This is the base level of his personality. Most Hollows are able to accept a replacement for what they lost if they find someone suitable. Nnoitra can't or won't accept a substitute; he wants that specific person back.


I mean, I'm honestly having a hard time accepting that his despair is from this "bond" you're talking about. It kind of makes him look dependent? Although, I understand that you can ONLY despair when you ARE dependent (or expect too much) on something. I love Ulquiorra like no other, but I would have loved Nnoitra's ACTUAL backstory just as much.
Ulquiorra's was predictable. Not much can happen in a void. The best part of that doujinshi was him waking up to Orihime's face and Kubo pretty much slapping in our faces that Ulquiorra was comfortable around Orihime to sleep in her room. Deep enough to dream to :elmo
Let me put it this way then, because this is how I understand it:

Ichigo has been in despair since his mother died. Until that point, she was the center of their family, their entire world as they knew it, and everything revolved about her. Then that "center" was gone. Since that time he has been alone, miserable, and powerless -- until Rukia came and gave him power.

This is not unlike what happens to someone who goes Hollow. That which is most important to them -- is suddenly gone, and they turn Hollow. Most of the time it's over something silly -- beef or pork?, pink champagne, etc -- because most people are shallow like that, and because they don't have any strong attachments. For upper-level Hollows though it inevitably seems to be because they lost a particular bond: Harribel's children, Nel's siblings, Yammy's dog, etc. They couldn't bear the loss of that bond, and ended up Hollow.

Yes, it's a bit on the co-dependent side, but depending on others is a good thing in shounen. The villain -- the real, main villain -- is always alone, and the hero is always in a group of companions. You'll notice those Espada who genuinely didn't care about relationships ended up in Hell; choosing to be alone, maintaining that distance from everyone is a true evil in Bleach. It's why Nnoitra said he and Szayelaporro were nothing alike; Szayelaporro likes being Hollow, he likes that his relationships with everyone around him are bonds he can replace at will. Nnoitra hates being alone, probably just as much as Ichigo does. It makes him co-dependent, but as we see from his Hollow hole placement, that which he lost is a requirement to function properly. It's not like a "typical" Hollow where one bond is much like another and can be interchanged; his loss is specific. He is effectively fighting at half-power, which is probably why Kubo included all the kendo and using both hands (which is to say, full powers for one with spiritual abilities). That is why I say he lost his soul-mate, in a literal sense of being his "other half". He is never going to get over the fact that this person is gone; his world is empty and pointless without that person.

His despair then is the same as Ichigo's: a loss of a bond he couldn't live without.


I laughed at this louder than I should have in public LOL (I check BA on my phone all the time).
Ulquiorra's answer means he KNOWS what Nnoitra was talking about. That's pretty interesting to me lawls.

But I'm convinced now that Ulquiorra likes to express his sexual frustration in the form of long, drawn-out speeches. For example, his uncalled-for long reveal of Aizen's plan to Nnoitra and his lecturing to Ichigo after he interrupted his moment with Orihime (causing the strawberry-head to actually make him shut up LOL).
Ah Ulquiorra... you're a much more dynamic character than most people think and I love it.
Not only did he know what Nnoitra was talking about, but if he hadn't already been thinking about it, he was now. I bet it made him nervous that there's now this girl in ... I'm guessing that was supposed to be Ulquiorra's quarters and not some random room in Las Noches? So there's this girl in his quarters, and he's thinking things that Hollows aren't supposed to think about since that idiot Nnoitra went and said it, and hey maybe that room needs a new rug to brighten things up? And some furniture rearrangement for better feng shui? (Seriously, go look. That room gets rearranged. A lot.) How about some lunch? Does she like salad?

And of course, now he can't stop thinking about it. Time to go pick a fight with that orange-haired Shinigami; that should take the edge off. Blaming Nnoitra all the while for putting such thoughts into his innocent little brain.

Yep. Las Noches: land of sexual frustration. :elmo


Eh. Knowing Nnoitra, he'd probably like to make her pee in her hakama by threatening to kill her, but don't forget that after Nnoitra's defeat, Ulquiorra was already out of the Negacion waiting for Starrk to bring her back to him in the 5th tower (did I spell that right? too lazy to look it up). So he'd probably swoop in protectively before Nnoitra could even look at 'pet-sama'. If Starrk didn't make it in time.

Or am I getting my timeline mixed up?
First Nnoitra gets defeated. Then Aizen makes a pretty speech. Then he helpfully leaves Ulquiorra in charge to ensure the kids go to bed at a reasonable time without trashing the place. Oops, failed on that checkpoint. Then Ulquiorra finally reappears.

Ulquiorra obviously could hear what was going on despite being trapped in a pocket dimension. I'm sure if something actually happened to the captive princess, he would have popped out earlier for a lovely extended Espada vs Espada battle -- or at least until Nnoitra got bored enough to hand her over. (Remember, Ichigo couldn't dent Nnoitra; he could dent Ulquiorra. Nnoitra doesn't have to be brilliant in battle; he just has to be the last man standing to win.)


Almost no one has managed to keep Nnoitra in character for more than 1 chapter. Well I can't blame them. Undeniably, he's in the non-muse/inspirational category. Heck, as popular as NnoiNel is, there aren't nearly as many fanfics of them as there should be and people DO look for them. It's just that no one knows how to write them.

(they either make Nel a complete child in her adult form or a complete b****. When I write her, it's a mixture of both depending who she is talking to - and we all know how she acts towards Nnoitra versus Ichigo)

I write Nnoitra as the does-whatever-he-wants-however-he-wants type of guy. He enjoys making people uncomfortable or infuriated (ie. Ulquiorra and Grimmjow), but hates receiving the same treatment.
He is a little hard to write, isn't he? He always wants to slide into mischievous/borderline-cute when I write things with him. Not sure why that happens. It's probably why there are so many half-finished fics taking up my valuable drive space. I have to have certain songs on to have a chance of keeping him IC.


My interpretation of "inore" is more like "pray for mercy". He is the high being, etc etc - hence the halo.
I did think about that as a possible interpretation years ago, but we should consider the whole command. His zanpakutou is named for St Teresa of Avila, who primarily wrote about her search for divine love. She is one of the primary authors of the bridal mysticism tradition: the Divine as Lover (think 'Song of Songs' if you're familiar with the language used in that, or "Dark Night of the Soul" if you're familiar with St Teresa's contemporary St John of the Cross). So if Nnoitra's command is for Santa Teresa to pray, she (very much "she" :amuse) would pray for love.


Ew. I just realized, Ulquiorra could be the first "natural" Hollow with his hole filled in.
"Shiro" has proven to us that that isn't impossible (but how is it possible in the first place? I doubt this flashback will explain -.- Like how was Isshin able to recall what Aizen did or said when he was invisible? Damn it. Or describe Masaki's conversations with the Ishida's? He IS the one telling the flashback right? Then what is he REALLY telling Ichigo? I know I should speculate on how the story is made, but really... flashbacks/storytelling is supposed to be biased. Oh well).
Don't think too hard about flashback viewpoints. You'll give yourself a headache.

I'm guessing Aizen et al did something to fill White's (it said 'White' on the raw) Hollow hole; that is the same substance they were playing with the previous chapter. It's a nice bit of foreshadowing that it is possible for a Hollow to regain a heart after a fashion. Now ... can this be done naturally, or only by artificial means? It should be possible for this to occur naturally, else Aizen would not have thought of it, right?

It's like the Arrancar. There are natural Arrancar, but Aizen was able to artificially create Arrancar as well. This should be the same.

Be still, my wild surge of hope.


Truth be told, I ask myself this A LOT.
Technically, you don't turn into a "shinigami" no matter your spiritual awareness. You gotta go to school for that. At least for a license.
So I assume the real question you're asking is if he ends up spiritually aware in the outskirts of SS? Well.
The Academy is just for training and such. It should be possible to become a Shinigami without all that. The Academy did not exist at the time of the original Divisions, and likewise, where did the first Shinigami come from? Calling it: out of HM.

Being a Shinigami isn't about the trappings; it is about that desire to protect. Hollows lost what they wanted to protect; that is why they are Hollow. A Hollow who figured out things out again -- well, unless they turn into Quincy somehow, they would have to be something like a Shinigami. Even Ganju and family have zanpakutou even if they aren't Shinigami as such. There's no real other option that we have seen. It doesn't preclude Kubo creating another option though, if he has some ex-Hollows he would like to work in somewhere.

[tanjienio]

OMG Minerva.. you already make it? joinage request pleaseeeee ;A;

[Minerva]

Welcome, tanjienio! :glomp Glad to have you. Why do you like Nnoitra?


(Yes, we were the second character fc up once the forum re-opened. :D And chatting away since the re-opening.)

[Angel26278]

Hi!! Can I join?? I love him a lot

[Minerva]

Welcome, Angel26278! :glomp Glad to have you. Why do you like Nnoitra?

[Angel26278]

I have no any specific reason, But I love his bad attitude, and of course I like him because He is very handsome

[Minerva]

His old hairstyle was so cute on him. :love He's very pretty with his hair longer though and the twin-tails match his attitude. He's so tsuntsun all the time, if he re-appears will he finally turn deredere? It's overdue.

[Angel26278]

I love his older hairstyle too, He really looks so cute. But with his hair long, He looks totally awesome too xD..
oh!! very difficult decission. If He re-appears again I'll prefer as always a tsuntsun. I love his aggressive personality. But I must admit that will be interesting see him as deredere

[Minerva]

It would be quite a switch, to say the least. Only Sung-sun can be so cold all the time; Byakuya, etc switch to show a warm heart after we get to know them. I'm sure Nnoitra would switch as well under the right circumstances.

Did you ever read any of Kubo's short stories? Nnoitra is absolutely Senza from "Rune Master Urara". Not quite in appearance perhaps because Senza is blond, but the attitude is unmistakably him. The strongest of ice demons who can't be cut or defeated -- who starts talking with heart emoticons after he thaws out. :XD

It might be interesting if Kubo went that route with Nnoitra. I think most of the fandom would have heart failure to see him being sweet for a change. Even Loly thawed when Menoly got hurt though, so it's possible. Kubo had said he was originally thinking of Nnoitra as a snake; we know from Gin what that would have meant for Nnoitra's character:
http://i20.mangapanda.com/bleach/414/bleach-2399745.jpg
... Well, except for Gin doing everything he did so Rangiku wouldn't cry. :amuse Nnoitra should be just the same, then. Somewhere he has feelings hidden. He just needs to figure out what to do about them.

[Angel26278]

Well besides of some manga chapters (not beyond the volume #3), I've only read doujinshi nothing more :confusion (most of them between him and Neliel, and some him and Tesra) In some of the He is very kind. Why not? I think the same. Maybe He is the type of characters, that hide very deeply their feelings, and not shown them to anybody..

[Minerva]

That's certainly possible that he is just trying to hide his feelings. Byakuya was exactly the same until Ichigo lectured him about proper behaviour toward his little sister. Nelliel's lectures didn't have quite the same effect on Nnoitra though. :XD

If we're going on what little we've seen of his powers, he should be good and kind underneath the moody exterior. Who else have we seen with barrier-type powers? Orihime, Hacchi, and now Masaki. They're all kind and warm-hearted; two of them are stated pacifists unfit for battle. Masaki made her family happy just by being there with them. If that's Nnoitra's character type, he has to be nicer than we've seen.

I don't think he needs to give up fighting; he just needs to fight for the right reasons, like his storyline suggests. Find a reason to fight that doesn't involve hating someone. We know characters should fight to protect what is important to them because Kubo has emphasized that theme throughout, but Nnoitra needed to work through it. We still don't precisely know if he figured it out since Kubo didn't share the revelation like he did with Starrk and Ulquiorra.

That by itself is ample reason to return Nnoitra to the story IMO. If it's important enough to hold it over, it should fit with our current storyline since we're running out of story at this point.

I don't know if I want to see his personality completely switch though. He's cute when he's being moody and thoughtful. Maybe just once in a while, just for the right person?

[Angel26278]

about his personality, I only the, how was He in the anime.. I really want to know more about him.. Now I'm waiting for the publisher, release the volume #22 (I really hate this so slow publication, but maybe I understand, It's slow because, it's very expensive).
Although, I've read part of his story in wikipedia. But I think, isn't enough, for know him..

[Minerva]

What chapter have you read up to? Vol 22 is early Arrancar arc, so I'm not sure how much to spoiler you. :) The anime is a little different. They added some things and minimized certain other things that Kubo did more with in the manga.

There's a list in the first post of Nnoitra's appearances in the story, plus any mentions of him where he doesn't appear in person (including a very recent one). Even if he has the most development of the Arrancar, it's still not a lot of chapters to read. Most of the major development is in 294 and 312-313. The rest of it is him figuring things out and small clues about his personality.

[Angel26278]

here, not yet published at # 22. Just, I read well over something on the internet, nothing more than an occasional chapter of the manga ... The only thing I read was the fight between Nnoitra and Kenpachi, I have been very surprised .. Both the anime and the manga, was one of the best fights. Now I want to become spoilers myself trying to find more details of the story

[Minerva]

That was definitely one of the best fights to date. :D Very intense, with no real wasted panels.

Well, as I said the list of the chapters Nnoitra appears in is in our first post if you're interested in his storyline. There's plenty of places to read the chapters online.

However, the thing with Bleach is that Kubo always builds out storylines later on such that everything is connected. We still don't know precisely what happened to cause the change in Nnoitra's zanpakutou, but some of the recent chapters seem to be leading up to an explanation that should include the reason why Hollows evolve the way they do. So we might still get more info about Nnoitra even this far long, if not Nnoitra himself (somehow).

It's very exciting to see things we thought Kubo had forgotten about long ago find their way into a new chapter. Did you see the translation of the interview from the Masked databook that Kubo was thinking about something that involved Nnoitra? He might still show up if Kubo did develop that story; Kubo seems to like Nnoitra a lot. Good for us. :yay

[Angel26278]

Yeah I saw the list of chapters.. every so often, I check again, because I like make screenshots .. :noworry ( I love do this :inlove)
As my native language is Spanish, I read a page that has it completely, and the times I've read in English, I have no one in specific ..
Still, try best to have the manga in hand, that does not hurt the eye, reading online :frownnew..
No I don't read it yet.. But I would like do it :yay

[Minerva]

I don't think I've seen anyplace online that has Spanish-translation chapters, at least not lately. I'm sure they must exist but my Google fu is failing. (Probably doesn't help that I'm not all that fluent in Spanish.) I prefer to read from the volumes as well. It's not the same to read things online. All my volumes are in Japanese though.

Here's the relevant bit about Nnoitra from MASKED (Viz English translation):
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/masked-kubo-nnoitra.png
There's some other stuff about Nnoitra in that interview as well; Kubo was talking about Nnoitra an awful lot there. I need dig all that out and post it. I really hate translating interviews, so Viz is good enough in this case.

Kubo's then-editor also make predictions on which Espada might show up at the beginning of this last arc.
http://album.tealmermaid.com/bleach/3weekbreak-omake.jpg
According to him, Nnoitra has a tiny chance of reappearing. (Note that those who had a high chance were specifically mentioned by Kubo that they might reappear in the associated interview.) I suppose "tiny" is better than the "no-chance" some of them got.

I'd really like to see Nnoitra again. Considering the trend lately is that characters seem to need a funeral to be confirmed dead, I doubt Nnoitra was dead when the scene shifted. A simple beheading would have settled the issue, but Zaraki didn't do it. I would swear he did just enough to disable Nnoitra, not kill him. It's never been Zaraki's way to kill worthy opponents. He might want to fight them again one day and he can't do that if they're dead. Even now with the situation with Unohana I doubt he's killed his opponent off. Kubo has made it clear before that he has something else in mind with them. Nnoitra is even more like Zaraki's most recent opponent than like Zaraki himself, so if the one lives, Nnoitra should be fine as well IMO.

[Angel26278]

to read it online, I like the site animeextremist, I know about 10 years ago, and has many online manga
or say, sometimes I found appalling translations. completely changing the context originally having ..
yeah, maybe it's a small glimmer of hope that "tiny" ..almost like I think, Zaraki was not exactly "forced" to kill Nnoitra, only knocked him unconscious? .. because Zaraki knew that in the future will meet Nnoitra again, for a revenge, this time possibly risking their lifes again without any consideration?.. That issue, as I have always present in the head .. and strongly desire to become a reality

[Minerva]

Tiny is definitely better than no chance. Kubo's editor should have seen some sort of outline for what Kubo is planning to write, you know, which characters, the general storyline, so he should know roughly what Kubo has in mind. He wouldn't say there's any chance unless he's seen those names on the planning list. It is just a matter of time to find out what Kubo is thinking about. It might just be a flashback or something; that's better than nothing IMO. At least we would get to see Nnoitra. We already had the one throwaway mention of Nnoitra when Unohana and Zaraki were fighting each other so we know Kubo remembers that Nnoitra exists. It makes me really curious as to why Unohana knows Nnoitra's full name. She wasn't there when he and Zaraki made introductions. Has she talked to Nnoitra? Was she sent to Hueco Mundo to find Nnoitra? Considering she went to Chad when the other captains were off doing personal things, I wonder. Such possibilities! I am very curious to see if there will be any more mentions now that we're getting more Hollow information. Nnoitra got all the weird Hollow stuff, so I could see Kubo working him in somewhere. I would rather see him in person though, how about you?

I don't know about revenge exactly. There's only four characters of that same level as Zaraki, and we know now that he was comparing both Ichigo and Nnoitra to Unohana the entire time. If he kills them off, they won't be around when he wants to fight later. Nnoitra is far more like Unohana than Zaraki anyway, even within that small group, with Ichigo being more like Zaraki. Unohana's flashback of how she met Zaraki is a direct parallel to Nnoitra torching villages out of boredom. They also both have their healing powers to fight forever. I actually do hope they had talked at some point. It would be interesting.

In light of the recent evil roaming the world, it would probably be more productive if Zaraki and Nnoitra fought on the same side against the Bigger Bad. Nnoitra definitely qualifies as an anti-villain so it wouldn't take much to make him an anti-hero like Zaraki. Explain what he figured out when Zaraki hit him, which is probably something to do with the person he should be protecting, and that sets him up for a heel-face-turn. Let him switch sides with the rest of the Arrancar to fight on the Shinigami side and he would be all set.

[Angel26278]

hi, I come back,, I was absent because I was ill :ano. Although I'm still ill (I've a headache), but I take a moment to pass here. :fangirl